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Smedley: "EverQuest Next will be the world's largest sandbox-style MMO ever made"

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  • cybertruckercybertrucker Pensacola, FLPosts: 1,119Member
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar
    Originally posted by pvpirl

     


    Originally posted by cybertrucker
    EQ was not a theme park, it was not  a sandbox! What it was was an open world to explore. We did not make the cities, we did not  create huge castles, we adventured, we explored, and we did it in groups (mainly) while socializing, yes we raided, but we were not guided on rails with quest boxes and advanced map tools that lead us thru a theme park like game. Hell we didnt even really have mapping when it first launched we had /loc...

     

    so people get it right and stop calling EQ something it wasn't , and that goes both ways.

     


     

    EQ started as a psudo sandbox and became a terrible themepark as the expantions came out.

    It was themepark through and through.  Yes you could go lots of places, you could in vanilla wow too.

    But all monks were the same, all warriors the same...  The classes were completely linear.  Completely loot driven game, crafts were crap compared to loot.  Zones were still designed for particular levels, start out close to city and gradually move further away. 

    And the big one.  Absolutely no way to impact the world either by territory control, crafting, building, terraforming, questions.. nothing nada zip.

    A themepark through and through.

    Exploring, socializing... that can and does happen in every game. 

    You can call it a theme park all you want, however you are wrong. A theme park leads you thru the park with a Map from one ride to the next like WOW did. EQ was all exporation based.  

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    As Rungard mentioned earlier we need more definitions to all be on the same page.

    I took the term "themepark" at face value. A closed in area with groups of people manning specific rides. These would be the quest giver clusters giving quests for the mobs 30 feet away.

    I take "sandbox" to be like Rungard's picture. A blank patch of moldable sand at which to build things.

    Items like PvP and tiered raid progression have been tacked on because other games that have come before it featured those things. That doesn't mean it defines either term. You have to take one feature at a time because one can have an effect on the other.

    For example, tier based raiding in a sandbox seems fine for me as long as it's the access that's progressive and materials are given, not gear. Why? Because in a "sandbox", or to build, crafting is very important.

    I'm pretty sure EQN will be just as Smed smartly and specifically quoted "sandbox style".
  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rungard
    Originally posted by Velocinox
    Originally posted by rungard

    I knew it. This announcement deserves the creation of a dedicated forum. All SWG/sandbox players rejoice.

    Hopefully a AAA home is on the way.

    Rejoicement over a noncommital ambiguous marketing statement?

    Don't blame the industry for hype, just look in the mirror.

     lol wheres the hype. The game definitely exists, and it is a sorely needed AAA sandbox.

    why wouldnt swg/sandbox players be happy about it?

    Says who?......oh wait........:) Still at least Smedly isn't quite as bad as EA at misrepresenting their products. 

  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member

    I'll stand by initial assertion that when people like Smokejumper talk about motion capture webcam spell weaving and smed is talking about destroying almost the entire world and EQN might be on the playstation and PC.. we have no idea what the fuck this is, and silly debates on what EQ1 or GW2 are or are not is, well, silly.


    Who cares what EQ1 was, Brad McQuaid was snorting people's stolen pain killers in the bathroom and I was 13 years old when all that went down, its a different time.


    It's fairly reasonable that SOE came to the conclusion that they can never defeat WoW, and decided to take the other, and much clammored for, section of the market, "sandbox" style gaming. Not because Smed and co. love you, or love sandbox games, or care, its because its the only way they can find a niche in the current MMO market.


    Free Realms and EQ2 such ass, and Blizzard is laughing at them like SOE laughed at Richard Garriot's ponytail in 1999, they're willing to try something different because the square peg isn't fitting in the round hole anymore, themepark titles are failing.


    And I'm totally ok with that.

    image

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by pvpirl

    I'll stand by initial assertion that when people like Smokejumper talk about motion capture webcam spell weaving and smed is talking about destroying almost the entire world and EQN might be on the playstation and PC.. we have no idea what the fuck this is, and silly debates on what EQ1 or GW2 are or are not is, well, silly.


    Who cares what EQ1 was, Brad McQuaid was snorting people's stolen pain killers in the bathroom and I was 13 years old when all that went down, its a different time.


    It's fairly reasonable that SOE came to the conclusion that they can never defeat WoW, and decided to take the other, and much clammored for, section of the market, "sandbox" style gaming. Not because Smed and co. love you, or love sandbox games, or care, its because its the only way they can find a niche in the current MMO market.


    Free Realms and EQ2 such ass, and Blizzard is laughing at them like SOE laughed at Richard Garriot's ponytail in 1999, they're willing to try something different because the square peg isn't fitting in the round hole anymore, themepark titles are failing.


    And I'm totally ok with that.

     http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kIbEj1CIpuU

     

    image

     

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,854Member Uncommon
    After 8 years of playing WoW I wouldn't discount that SoE could bring them something they didn't think they needed.

    I'll also assme that people at SoE really do care about people enjoying the game. Sure, the higher ups have to make sure the bills are paid but I believe they are gamers just like the rest of us, well at least those making the games. I have no proof to the contrary.
  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by pvpirl

     


    Originally posted by Muke

    EVE took that title and still holds it.

     

     

    Unless SOE come up with a single serverstyle game instead of server shards with 500 players on it....total free gameplay without limitations and player generated gameplay, then again, according to Smedley and his promotion team SWG still holds 300 zillion players online now even when the game is officially dead.

    But I doubt SOE can back it up with their history.

    I doubt SOE even knows what a sandbox really is, they had one a long time ago with a I WIN button printed on it, they fell flat on their faces. They don't even know how to make a decent themepark mmo.

    Can't even think of 1 successful game made by them. All their games are dead or dying,


     

    If you check out some interviews with Smed he's all up on EVE's nutsack. You can bet he is going to try to implement many of EVE's mechanics into a fantasy setting.

    Damn it'll probablly be an Excel plugin then. Excel is a real sandbox :)

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    And to PvE raiding, if you fail to down a boss for months, then what? What did you lose? Some gold thats value has been inflated? Also, "hardcore PvE only" players calling people carebears amuses me. Its like Unreal Tournament players who play against godlike bots laughing at those who play is at as an e-sport.

     

    What are you even doing looking at Everquest then, you're complaining about PVE and raiding, that is EQ, it's why EQ is still alive, in EQ 90% of the players are PVE raiders nowadays, log into the guild lobby and check out the gear, everything is PVE raided gear with very few exceptions.

    As for your question, what you lose if you fail to mobs are players, who leave the guild, PVE guilds constantly compete with each other and you need enough players to fill 54 spots every night, with 40 or less you're not killing anything and your guild dies, no on stays in a guild that drops below 40. Applying to a new guild means you lose all your DKP. In many guilds you don't see new loot for months after applying.

    I hope EQNext is less about raiding and more about adventuring, but currently that's not the case.

    Maybe your wish will be granted, that EQNext is some FFA PVP game where there isn't any raiding, but then you probably have a higher chance of winning the lottery and getting hit by lightning.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    I am really interested to see the feature list of EQNext.. the greatest sandbox of all time.. with raiding? And i really would like to see how gear based progression raiding and sandbox features fit together.

    Dont get me wrong. You can do raiding in a sandbox. Just not tiered raiding with gear drop, because with that you will more or less make crafting for Armor/Weapons obsolete. And crafting is one of the fundaments of a working sandbox.

    And the next question would be.. is raiding for Raiders interesting, when you dont get the best gear out of it and instead of it just some money or resources, or both?

    But... seriously i cant wait for a more indeepth features list for this game. Some expect it to be a sandbox, some expect it to be a Raiding game, some expect it to be PvE only and so on and so forth.
  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by Apraxis

    I am really interested to see the feature list of EQNext.. the greatest sandbox of all time.. with raiding? And i really would like to see how gear based progression raiding and sandbox features fit together.

    Dont get me wrong. You can do raiding in a sandbox. Just not tiered raiding with gear drop, because with that you will more or less make crafting for Armor/Weapons obsolete. And crafting is one of the fundaments of a working sandbox.

    And the next question would be.. is raiding for Raiders interesting, when you dont get the best gear out of it and instead of it just some money or resources, or both?

    But... seriously i cant wait for a more indeepth features list for this game. Some expect it to be a sandbox, some expect it to be a Raiding game, some expect it to be PvE only and so on and so forth.

     

    Theyve already said a couple of times that they are moving away from kill,level,loot type gameplay that were used to so well have to wait and see.

    to be honest i think everyone will be wrong and are going to get a game based primarily on environmental worldbuilding and pve territory control. pvp and raiding might fit in there somewhere but wont be the focus of the game.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Like I said earlier up the thread it will be a raid grinder themepark with some sandbox elements.


    There is no way they are going to throw away the raid or die endgame, that is EQs core audience, but keeping that stops it being a sandbox, as sandboxes don't have a 2 phase leveling game then end game, sandboxes just are.

    Expect a big open world low instanced themepark like eq1, but with sandbox elements revolving around crafting, building and teraforming.
  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo

    Like I said earlier up the thread it will be a raid grinder themepark with some sandbox elements.


    There is no way they are going to throw away the raid or die endgame, that is EQs core audience, but keeping that stops it being a sandbox, as sandboxes don't have a 2 phase leveling game then end game, sandboxes just are.

    Expect a big open world low instanced themepark like eq1, but with sandbox elements revolving around crafting, building and teraforming.

     

    i honestly dont think there will be instances. I think theyll be replaced by pve invasions...which gives players a reason to build walls, defences, battering rams, castles, guard armor, and everything else inbetween. Sort of like a sandbox style of GW2's dynamic events on steroids. When the orks invade and burn down your house..who you gonna cry to then?
  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member

    I wonder if action combat will become the new trend in MMOs. Aside from combat mechanics, even if EQN doesn't do great, one has got to assume it'll do better than the avg sandbox title launched over the last few years if for no other reason than it will be different. Others will no doubt imitate. So even if EQN doesn't scratch that sandbox itch you crave, a following game will no doubt. Love or hate EQN as a concept, but it will set a ball in motion.

    a renaissance of sandy action.

    image

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by pvpirl

    I wonder if action combat will become the new trend in MMOs. Aside from combat mechanics, even if EQN doesn't do great, one has got to assume it'll do better than the avg sandbox title launched over the last few years if for no other reason than it will be different. Others will no doubt imitate. So even if EQN doesn't scratch that sandbox itch you crave, a following game will no doubt. Love or hate EQN as a concept, but it will set a ball in motion.

    a renaissance of sandy action.

     the only reason i believe EQN will have full action combat is because they already achieved that with planetside 2 on a massive scale with the same engine. Why would they go backwards?

    image

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    I love the combat in vindictus, but I don't like that it's solo play, I don't like how easy it is, I don't like that it hinders socialising, in fact I probably hate everything about it except for the mob interaction combat it has which was really refreshing.

    I still prefer slow combat from EQ, but if they could incorporate a bit of action I wouldn't mind, EQ is static as hell, although I think that's where it gets it's strength from too, it lends itself to raiding and grouping.

  • cybertruckercybertrucker Pensacola, FLPosts: 1,119Member
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    I am really interested to see the feature list of EQNext.. the greatest sandbox of all time.. with raiding? And i really would like to see how gear based progression raiding and sandbox features fit together. Dont get me wrong. You can do raiding in a sandbox. Just not tiered raiding with gear drop, because with that you will more or less make crafting for Armor/Weapons obsolete. And crafting is one of the fundaments of a working sandbox. And the next question would be.. is raiding for Raiders interesting, when you dont get the best gear out of it and instead of it just some money or resources, or both? But... seriously i cant wait for a more indeepth features list for this game. Some expect it to be a sandbox, some expect it to be a Raiding game, some expect it to be PvE only and so on and so forth.

    Pretty easy fix actually. players craft weapons and armor to start.  However Master crafters could take Raid Drops, Remold them, and improve them. Reconfigure stats. ETC ETC.. There are plenty of ways to make crafters relevant in a RAID oriented system.

    Vanguard Crafters had some amazing abilities, and the crafting system in that game is one of  the more in depth systems around.

    Seeing as how thats an SOE game. I figure they will probably be taking some ideas from it.

    As for me. I dont expect much of anything.

    What I would like to see is a PVPVE with Massive  Dynamic Events, In Depth faction systems that guilds could become interweved with. Open world Raid mobs, and Open world dungeons that could be competed for. With a hybrid Class/skill leveling system much like Tabula Rasa had with a core group of basic skills, more advanced skills would require becoming a class, and classes allowing you to take certain basic skills higher in level.

    A crafting system that is seperate from your adventuring skills (vanguard anyone). 

  • cybertruckercybertrucker Pensacola, FLPosts: 1,119Member
    Originally posted by rungard
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Like I said earlier up the thread it will be a raid grinder themepark with some sandbox elements.


    There is no way they are going to throw away the raid or die endgame, that is EQs core audience, but keeping that stops it being a sandbox, as sandboxes don't have a 2 phase leveling game then end game, sandboxes just are.

    Expect a big open world low instanced themepark like eq1, but with sandbox elements revolving around crafting, building and teraforming.

     

    i honestly dont think there will be instances. I think theyll be replaced by pve invasions...which gives players a reason to build walls, defences, battering rams, castles, guard armor, and everything else inbetween. Sort of like a sandbox style of GW2's dynamic events on steroids. When the orks invade and burn down your house..who you gonna cry to then?

    as I have said PVPVE, a mix of Aion, Tabula Rasa, and GW2. All of this technology has been done before. Now its time to blend it for EQN.

    Can you also imagine if they were to put RTS style AI in the game for certain races or factions..  That would build their own camps on the map that the players would have to eradicate to stop them from becoming a threat.  RIFT did this to some degree. The Technology for all of this here today. It just needs to be implemented together.

  • ragz45ragz45 rochester hills, MIPosts: 688Member Uncommon

    I think a big thing they need to do is decide just what audience they are going to primarily cater to.  State it, draw a line in the sand, and hold to their guns.  Too many games over the last decade have failed misserably because they try and cater to many different audiences, and it just simply doesn't work out.

    Just one for instance, It's too hard to cater to both hardcore PVE fans and Open world PvP fans in the same game.  Classes and skills end up being adjusted for PvP which impacts PvE.  Etc etc.

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by arieste

    Yep, absolutely it was.  And thank god.  You shouldn't remake the same game 10 years later just because you remember it fondly.  Most of the "EQ1 throwbacks" in Vanguard are what dragged it down - retarded ideas by a lead designer that had too much ego to acknowledge 10 years of progress in the genre.

    Yet, it's a mistake bad developers just keep right on makin'.

    And gamers too, it it ain't Just Like WoW, it will not be allowed to succeed.  If it is Just Like WoW, we'll dismiss it as a Clone.

    Brad Mc Grind the Jolly Green Ranger is responsible for some of the most egricious game mechanics in MMOs. The industry was set back years. The problem was that he did not appreciate the difference between 'hardcore' and 'mindless repititious grind'. Who can forget  'camping' for Jboots, sitting in line for 2 days straight in a tiny aquare room waiting for your crack at the spawn. or the marvellous meditation mechanic, looking at a blank screen for half of your play time. The big thing that EQ1 had going for it was the graphics, great for the time, a real feeling of being in the world. A lot of the game systems where absolutely horrible, throwing aside a lot of mechanics that could already be found in MUDs and replacing them with mindless grindy time sinks.

    An ego quite out of line with talent.

  • NeherunNeherun St. MichelPosts: 278Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    And to PvE raiding, if you fail to down a boss for months, then what? What did you lose? Some gold thats value has been inflated? Also, "hardcore PvE only" players calling people carebears amuses me. Its like Unreal Tournament players who play against godlike bots laughing at those who play is at as an e-sport.

     

    What are you even doing looking at Everquest then, you're complaining about PVE and raiding, that is EQ, it's why EQ is still alive, in EQ 90% of the players are PVE raiders nowadays, log into the guild lobby and check out the gear, everything is PVE raided gear with very few exceptions. As for your question, what you lose if you fail to mobs are players, who leave the guild, PVE guilds constantly compete with each other and you need enough players to fill 54 spots every night, with 40 or less you're not killing anything and your guild dies, no on stays in a guild that drops below 40. Applying to a new guild means you lose all your DKP. In many guilds you don't see new loot for months after applying.

    I hope EQNext is less about raiding and more about adventuring, but currently that's not the case.

    Maybe your wish will be granted, that EQNext is some FFA PVP game where there isn't any raiding, but then you probably have a higher chance of winning the lottery and getting hit by lightning.

    I am not complaining about PvE or raiding. I just stated that in my mind PvE is dull due to lack of risk vs. reward scenarios (P.S nice -snip- on that Siege PvP part, which would have explained what I was after). The thing I exactly hate about PvE, is the mindset that evolves around it. Such elitism to occur for the sake of bragging rights from defeating a script, people leaving the guild if you have some set backs etc. (I've been part of PvE raiding group, so I am speaking from experience). And on the contrary, there are PvP guilds you join for years and the ruthless murderers possess more loyalty, ironic.

    I'm done with it. I bet many others are done with it. And "currently", we have Smedleys word, where kill, loot, kill loot, slay dragon boss for the 282 time for tier 800 gear won't exist. (He specificly mentioned "kill dragon x times for 800 tier gear". So, typical instanced raiding does not occur. But I bet there are open world bosses, the question is, will carebears (If someone frowned at this word, please refer to page 68-70, I've posted a carebear's term there, read it through and through) cause a shit storm if SoE attempts to incorporate raiding with open world and PvP, especially if they implement death penalties? Naturally, its most likely that SoE will create seperate servers for PvE and PvP, so I am asking this in regards on PvP servers.

    For Smedley's "plans" he reveals something:

    http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/20/soe-live-2012-john-smedley-on-eq-next-and-soes-future/

     

    [QUOTE]This is a very interesting question. I think it's at the core of why what we're doing is sustainable. I'll go right to the heart of the matter. You get to the point where we make an expansion, and when I say we, I mean the entire MMO community. You make your expansion, the real hardcore players consume it in a month, and they're doing the raids over and over and over until the next round of live content that we put in. Typically, three or four times a year, we as MMO companies put new endgame in there to keep the raiders happy.


    We absolutely need to build that style of content into every game we make because players want that. We're not talking about the end of raids, the end of this incredibly high-level content. We're talking about changing the nature of the world around it so that there's a lot more to do "in between" expansions. A good example, but a very narrow example, is battlegrounds in WoW or EQII, where players get bored doing it over and over again. But imagine the entire world as part of the interaction. Imagine seasons changing. Imagine if you're a Druid and you need to literally seek out reagents for your spells or worship your deity in a glade somewhere off in the wilderness, but you don't know where. Or image forests growing back after they're burned to the ground by invading forces. What we want is a dynamic world that gives all those other possibilities and doesn't just say OK, go to raid X with group composition of X, Y, Z, and kill the dragon for the 52nd time to get the tier 800 gear. It's this rinse-and-repeat gameplay that's got to change, and so we're changing it.[/QUOTE]

     

    I like the "seek reagents part", Smedley clearly has been glancing at Ultima Online.

     

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  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Although, if this turns out to be some sort if fantasy eve (which I highly doubt)
    I will
    A) probably play it, it would be the first EQ game I would enjoy
    B) laugh like hell at the epic whine which would come from the EQ fanbase
    C) enjoy the irony that the founder of the themepark emerged as the saviour of sandbox
    D) enjoy the irony that in just about every mmo I have betaed you got all these ex EQ players trying to make the game into a super grindy raid progression themepark with 0 pvp, then a new EQ comes along and does the opposite of what they try and make choose other mmos into.

    Your dreaming if you think SOE and Smed would ever lose the feeling EQ and what made EQ the game it was.

    EQ still has a vast following, it will be like coming home but coming home modern nday.

    Really? Like EQ2 you mean? I wonder who's dreaming here?

  • GorillaGorilla Posts: 2,203Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Telil

    Lets put this "eq was the origonal themepark" argument to bed with a simple fact.

    There was no such term in mmo's as themepark back in 1999 and i challenge each one of you to find one.

    EQ had a big open world that did not take you on a path progression. it not have quest hubs.

    It was simply a world to play in. it was like you were given a world and a few tools to play inside with......wait a sec, outside my son has a big sqare box full of sand with a few tools to play in too. he cant take these tools apart and build them again but he can build the sand in any way he wants to.

    Now in EQ back in 1999 you could not build the sand in anyway you wanted to, so it was not a complete sandbox, but it was coser to a sandbox than a themepark because we could go and do what we wanted ( with obvious mmo restrictions )

    Another cheeky point about a sandbox is that if my son cuts his hand with one of those tools, it hurts him....almost like he is being punished for a mistake lol....but thats another argument haha!

    If they could do a hybrid i would be happy....full sandbox? boring for me. i went sandbox crazy a few years ago and tried many. i soon found out that there was just no excitment for me. unless they throw tools into that big pit then i am not going in.

    A bit of logical fallacy going on here, just because a term is coined after something exists does not mean that something can not be described by that term. In any case I remember the term themepark being used  on a list serve that Kosnner hung out on in 79 not coined by him if memory serves. Since you ask, no linky needless to say.

    Incidetally, anyway you look at it EQ was 'gated' through and through.  Whether that prevents it being a sandbox I'll leave up to those who seem more concerned about that.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I don't get this they are doing x in planetside 2 so eqn will have x argument.

    If that was the case why is eq2 absolutely nothing like planetside1
  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 352Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tamanous
    Originally posted by Zekiah
    Originally posted by yorkforce

    I think the fact he said sandbox 'style' is a prelude to a get-out-clause. This is hype talk to get people interested. The big AAA MMO companies are slowly coming around to the fact that players are wanting a proper sandbox mmo, just look at the top 5 development games on this site.

    And people are finally waking up to the fact that the devs lie too. He better deliver on his promise because a lot of people aren't buying the lies anymore.

    My money is on him lieing though until he can prove otherwise. I won't hold my breath.

    Well there isn't enough information to prove it either way so the only thing you are expressing is your fear of dissapointment. When people grow up they start to learn they can be excited about something prior to proof knowing the outcome. Until more information comes available you can either continue expressing your insecurity or you can sit back and wait for information.

     

    I simply say this because personally I would feel like a bit of a pansy crying on the forums about being afraid a game lets you down 2 years in the future. I think we can all agree that there is no certainty of success for any mmo.

    i think we can all agree that the past are there and the wise one look to learn from it. if we take deep a look at Smedley past we can safely say that he is greedy and a professional bullshitter, so i wont hold my breath until some real facts come to the light of the day.

  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member

    Smed has all but begged for forgiveness and not only stated he has learned from past mistakes but has made a small measure of headway into proving it with his approach to the PS2 development and beta.

    He displays the traits of a man that was pulled into a bigger office than his own and was told "Unfuck yourself, your team, and your projects, or we will find someone that can." left that office and immediately wiped clean several dry-erase boards back in the development offices, called meetings, and puckered buttholes.

    image

This discussion has been closed.