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If the subscription model is dead, please explain this

mikecacklemikecackle City, ILPosts: 151Member

Yes, most people come here continually stating the MMORPG subscription model is dead.

Please then do explain this... Why is it that every F2P title also contains some sort of basic subscription facet to it?

If F2p IS DEAD, why does DDO have a premium plus that pretty much forces any regular player to BE A SUBSCRIBER

In Shot Online golf game, why is it all the long time players are SUBSCRIBED that gets, reduced greens fee's, ,millions of dollars of Zinga cash, and other bonuses?

Why does the upcoming TOR F2P model, sorta force you to subscribe to get access to all the warzones, and pvp content

Please enforce your reasoning on why you say the SUB model is dead?

 

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Comments

  • RobokappRobokapp Dublin, OHPosts: 5,206Member Uncommon

    there's nothing dead about the subscription model and they know it too, they just want to wish it away.

     

    F2P is a fad and it's basically entirely passed. I suspect we wont be seeing many more F2Ps in 2013 and on.

     

    glad its over...

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  • Ambros123Ambros123 Neverneverland, TNPosts: 877Member

    Actually in DDO one only has to be a sub or VIP only for a couple of months before they can simpely buy all the adventure packs they want.  Be a VIP for a few months to get the TP and grind out the favor for TP and at the end you can buy all the adventure packs and downgrade to Premium.  Same case in LotRO and there is an actual post with the plan.  Also people go VIP for a bit just to not deal with the hassle of buying packs or simpely to support the game... but a continuos $15 is a rip off for DDO as the service you get is no where near justified.

    All your examples is to sucker people into paying for subs.  People are gullible and stupid so they will fall for these tricks.  And really people haven't been chiming that subs are dead.  What they are saying is that the demography might change up a bit due to some good high quality MMOs out and are coming out that don't have subs.  Noteably GW2 and Neverwinter and what other games are coming out and they will definately take a sizeable chunk out of the P2P crowd.

  • darkhalf357xdarkhalf357x Brooklyn, NYPosts: 1,164Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mikecackle

    Yes, most people come here continually stating the MMORPG subscription model is dead.

    Please then do explain this... Why is it that every F2P title also contains some sort of basic subscription facet to it?

    If F2p IS DEAD, why does DDO have a premium plus that pretty much forces any regular player to BE A SUBSCRIBER

    In Shot Online golf game, why is it all the long time players are SUBSCRIBED that gets, reduced greens fee's, ,millions of dollars of Zinga cash, and other bonuses?

    Why does the upcoming TOR F2P model, sorta force you to subscribe to get access to all the warzones, and pvp content

    Please enforce your reasoning on why you say the SUB model is dead?

     

    Every game has to be monetized in some sort of way otherwise you cannot support its development.  The subscription will never go away because its too easy to convince a portion of the public to pay for it.   Nothing is free.  F2P doesn't mean you play the game for free.  It actually means you are *introduced* the game for free.  If you continue playing the game they will entice you in some for or fashion (be it a full sub, cash shop, etc) to create a transaction.  Developers have learned/are learning that small micro transactions sometimes are easier to close than a continual sub.

    For me, I dont want to pay for a sub (up front) if I find out I dont like the game.  SWTOR is a perfect example. I was subbed. But couldnt justify the cost vs the amount of time I had to play it.  But I will be back as soon as it goes F2P because what I did enjoy was the story.  I could care less about the Flashpoints or Warzones, two options which are available in limited form to F2P users.

    Why would I pay for a sub if I can get what I enjoy out of it for free?  The value comes from the option of subscribing if I feel its worth it or using F2P to try it out.  Subs as the only option is too restrictive and its hitting the pockets of the publishers.

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  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member
    Originally posted by mikecackle

    Yes, most people come here continually stating the MMORPG subscription model is dead.

    Please then do explain this... Why is it that every F2P title also contains some sort of basic subscription facet to it?

    If F2p IS DEAD, why does DDO have a premium plus that pretty much forces any regular player to BE A SUBSCRIBER

    In Shot Online golf game, why is it all the long time players are SUBSCRIBED that gets, reduced greens fee's, ,millions of dollars of Zinga cash, and other bonuses?

    Why does the upcoming TOR F2P model, sorta force you to subscribe to get access to all the warzones, and pvp content

    Please enforce your reasoning on why you say the SUB model is dead?

     

    Because you never played "Truly F2P" games.  It's a term coined by NCSoft for Aion.  You don't get nickled and dimed in Aion for any feature or content.  The game lives on a cash shop for Frill items (costumes, illusions, special housing furniture, XP boosts).

     

    Yeah EA really helped crap up the already crapped up image of "F2P". /agree

     

    Try LoL or Aion I guess, those games don't have restrictions.

    Or support other games that have good pay policies.  Stop supporting the cruddy ones and they will eventually go away.

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  • GruugGruug Chillicothe, ILPosts: 1,311Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by mikecackle

    Yes, most people come here continually stating the MMORPG subscription model is dead.

    Please then do explain this... Why is it that every F2P title also contains some sort of basic subscription facet to it?

    If F2p IS DEAD, why does DDO have a premium plus that pretty much forces any regular player to BE A SUBSCRIBER

    In Shot Online golf game, why is it all the long time players are SUBSCRIBED that gets, reduced greens fee's, ,millions of dollars of Zinga cash, and other bonuses?

    Why does the upcoming TOR F2P model, sorta force you to subscribe to get access to all the warzones, and pvp content

    Please enforce your reasoning on why you say the SUB model is dead?

     

     

    I think you stated everything yourself. While you can play "free" in a so-called f2p model, you can't really get the most out of it.

    Of course, they need the subscription to .... hold on to your socks MAKE MONEY. There is nothing wrong with making money. However, what IS wrong is that many think that if it sayf "free" that they are entitled to get almost everything there is to over. This is not the customer fault in my opinion but it is the customer that is being fooled into thinking that they are getting something for nothing. In fact, you never get anything for free that is worth while....as it should be.

    My major bone of contention with f2p is the providers that attempt to sell this snake oil. It is dishonest and not trully what people are going to get. Those that fail to think about it are the ones that end up duped into singing f2p's praises. I am not one of those. I prefer to pay for what I get and not support companies that are less then honest with their customers.

     

    Let's party like it is 1863!

  • BaselineBaseline Sloan, NYPosts: 503Member

    If people choose to play the next horrible themepark of the month, they deserve to be fleeced by the cash-shop/f2p/b2p scam.

    I don't play EVE, but if I were playing MMO's, that's the one I'd be playing.

    Why do you think the Smedley/Sandbox thread is huge and there's so much hype around that? Everyone is hoping for a taste of the old days before this over-monetization cookie cutter game madness started; before all of the sick people with suits and ties who don't even play these games and don't really care about community within them thought that they'd make a buck, and presented themselves with their MBA's and their poisonous eyes as to say "WE WILL BE THE NEXT WoW".

    And those people have poisoned what was once a great genre that had great communities.

  • maddhatter44maddhatter44 lawerenceville, GAPosts: 78Member
    your right, cause sub free + cash shop is whats gonna be the new new
  • maddhatter44maddhatter44 lawerenceville, GAPosts: 78Member

    And it seems people forget that they pay a sub fee for their xbox live accounts($50 /yr), plus pay $60 for games like CoD + $50 for season pass. $160 dollars for one game every year, and  what I would say is way less content.

    Yes you could argue that live you can play other games, but same time... you would be paying for other games too.

    ( which i would say to make up for longetivy in other games)

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    The subscription model isn't dead.  The people who dislike it just hope if they keep repeating "subscriptions are dead" that will make it true.

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,258Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    there's nothing dead about the subscription model and they know it too, they just want to wish it away.

     

    F2P is a fad and it's basically entirely passed. I suspect we wont be seeing many more F2Ps in 2013 and on.

     

    glad its over...

    its over? when did it end?

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  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    there's nothing dead about the subscription model and they know it too, they just want to wish it away.

     

    F2P is a fad and it's basically entirely passed. I suspect we wont be seeing many more F2Ps in 2013 and on.

     

    glad its over...

    Hahaha wishful thinking doesnt make something true.

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  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    People just love to throw the greedy word out there.

     

    Sub fee, Well those greedy assholes.

    Cash shop, Outragous.

     

    Basicly they want a game that you pay for once and get free content for the next 5 years. personally i think if they wanted to see the greedy person, they only need to look in the mirror.

    Because i can.
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  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member

    First off, the sub model isn't dead yet, just look at WoW and you know there's a considerable amount of money in subscriptions. The rest of your post goes on about hybrd models where you can subscribe or continue to play with a FREE option.

    The downside to the subscription model is that you have to pay for the month or not play at all. For less hardcore players this leads to the question "Do I want to keep on paying to play this game?". One day they'll decide it's just not worth it anymore. With Freemium you can throttle down to the FREE option, keep on playing casually and sub again when you want to. This keeps the players in the game, which is a huge advantage since near empty servers = less fun = even less subscribers.

    imageimage
  • RydesonRydeson Canton, OHPosts: 3,858Member Uncommon

         Subscription models are still here because of simple "accepted tradition"..  It was that way in the beginning and it has become the accepted normal pricing for a AAA game..  This is no different then games costing $59.95 on the shelves.. Where one goes, they all go.. almost like gas prices..  Think about it.. If Sub prices were so much needed to cover cost of staying in business, why are they all $15 a month, and why hasn't the price changed for almost 10 years? 

         Take a look at Rift or any other recent MMO.. If you really were paying for content, you should basically get a new game every 4 months (4 X $15).. Right?   Not even close.. Sub's today are 90% CASH COW profit.. :)

  • VengeSunsoarVengeSunsoar Posts: 5,316Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    there's nothing dead about the subscription model and they know it too, they just want to wish it away.

     

    F2P is a fad and it's basically entirely passed. I suspect we wont be seeing many more F2Ps in 2013 and on.

     

    glad its over...

    F2P games have existed right alongside p2p games since the very begining, actually since before UO.  Therefore it's just as much a fad as p2p. 

    http://mmohuts.com/editorials/the-first-mmorpg

    Quit worrying about other players in a game and just play.

  • bugse82bugse82 pernikPosts: 185Member
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    there's nothing dead about the subscription model and they know it too, they just want to wish it away.

     

    F2P is a fad and it's basically entirely passed. I suspect we wont be seeing many more F2Ps in 2013 and on.

     

    glad its over...

    wait, what?

    think again...

    not to mention the new soe titles.

    image

  • Zook81Zook81 Salisbury, NCPosts: 96Member
    Originally posted by maddhatter44
    your right, cause sub free + cash shop is whats gonna be the new new

    Seems to be the case. All "F2P" seems to mean to western developers is: How can we get people to buy a sub AND use our cash shop?

  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member

    I think games without a sub model are doomed to fail.

    Selling gambling boxes / grab bags is not the answer to everything.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by mikecackle

    Yes, most people come here continually stating the MMORPG subscription model is dead.

    Please then do explain this... Why is it that every F2P title also contains some sort of basic subscription facet to it?

    If F2p IS DEAD, why does DDO have a premium plus that pretty much forces any regular player to BE A SUBSCRIBER

    In Shot Online golf game, why is it all the long time players are SUBSCRIBED that gets, reduced greens fee's, ,millions of dollars of Zinga cash, and other bonuses?

    Why does the upcoming TOR F2P model, sorta force you to subscribe to get access to all the warzones, and pvp content

    Please enforce your reasoning on why you say the SUB model is dead?

     

    Umm nope. Only GW2 fanatics say that subscription model is dead. I have never seen anyone else harping about this. All this hoopla started after GW2 B2P was announced.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    The only posters who keep touting the sub model is dead are those who never pay themselves and would be happy that it did die so they could play any of the inferior games that such a move produced.

    There is a common misunderstanding both of what F2P means and that hybrid revenue models exist. A F2P MMO may be free to you but it is not to the company that makes it. So revenue is being sort via a cash shop. Turbine started the hybird revenue model which has been called the Turbine model. You have partial free access in a sub MMO. I think DDO's was a better version than Lotro but both are way better than a standard F2P model.

    Finally we have B2P and B2P with a cash shop. These are not F2P games, you pay for the box. You will notice one common theme here though, the cash shop. A cash shop does not fit in well with a subscription MMO, but it generates income so they will increasingly be used.

  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Only GW2 fanatics say that subscription model is dead. I have never seen anyone else harping about this. All this hoopla started after GW2 B2P was announced.

    True.

    Which is evidence of how little some people actually think and how easy they jump on shiny marketing words.

    B2P = good old lifetime sub, which has been around forever for many games.

    GW2 simply has a very cheap lifetime sub option, game is F2P, lifetime sub is 60$.

    No one can explain the difference between lifetime sub and B2P because there is none.

    Except that people are willing to accept the heavy cash shop centric business model

  • AdamantineAdamantine NowherePosts: 3,514Member Common
    Originally posted by Robokapp

    there's nothing dead about the subscription model and they know it too, they just want to wish it away.

    +1

    And thats all there is to say about it.

  • BrenelaelBrenelael Warren, MEPosts: 3,996Member

    The subscriprion model is dieing... but then again so is the free to play model as well. Both of these outdated payment models of the past are going the way of the Dodo. They are both giving way to a more reasonable hybrid payment model where all bases are covered.

     

    Bren

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  • SkuallSkuall UnknowPosts: 1,287Member Uncommon

    i hope the sub model never dies, the f2p is WAAAAAAAAAAAY worse .

     

    B2p like gw2 is really good , but the only games that did that are Gw1 and 2 , lifetime sub for a new game is a huge risk , u never know , lotro or star trek 4 example.

  • MawneeMawnee Spring Hill, FLPosts: 197Member Uncommon

    The problem is no Subscription games that have been released in recent years are worth the subscription. Which is why they quickly buckle and go F2P. Its not the model itself. Its the degredation of MMO devs and producers ability to make an MMO that is so cutting edge and exciting that players line up to pay.

    Hell, I'd gladly pay $20, $30 or even $50 a month for a HIGH quality MMO with all the features we've been requesting for years.  

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