Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

They need to make consequence around PvP more meaningful

chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon

I really enjoy playing GW2 but I feel they need to ramp up the importance of PvP.

I have messed around in RvR and have enjoyed it but after a few hours I start to think what I am fighting for... status, great, some small buffs, mmmm ok. (no land, access or resource field?)

There really isn't any point to it.  They need to do something like:

- Winning server has access to new dungeons/zones A,B,C

- Second server winning has access to new dungeons and not zones A,B,C

- Last server gets nothing.

 

If this was the case and my server was last, I would be involved a whole lot more because I know there is some type of consequence for my actions.

Right now it feels more like 'whack a mole' at a side show that rewards free sweets. 

«13

Comments

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by chryses

    I really enjoy playing GW2 but I feel they need to ramp up the importance of PvP.

    I have messed around in RvR and have enjoyed it but after a few hours I start to think what I am fighting for... status, great, some small buffs, mmmm ok. (no land, access or resource field?)

    There really isn't any point to it.  They need to do something like:

    - Winning server has access to new dungeons/zones A,B,C

    - Second server winning has access to new dungeons and not zones A,B,C

    - Last server gets nothing.

     

    If this was the case and my server was last, I would be involved a whole lot more because I know there is some type of consequence for my actions.

    Right now it feels more like 'whack a mole' at a side show that rewards free sweets. 

    I agree.  A Darkness Falls type dungeon would be more than welcome.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • SereliskSerelisk somewhere, NYPosts: 836Member

    I disagree completely. 

    The current system is based on server pride in order to strengthen the community therein. From what I've witnessed, that has seen a lot of success, though my testimony is mostly heresay. But here, I'm from Fort Aspenwood Alliance in the guild GODS and couldn't be more happy with the coordination between multiple guilds and the recognition of allied strength across the server as a whole. We don't win them all, but we don't give up either. 

    The system you're attempting to propose would cut off content from 2/3rds of the entire game's playerbase at any one time. I shouldn't have to point out to you everything that's wrong with that. 

     

  • PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Denison, TXPosts: 576Member Uncommon

    Invasions would be sweet. Winning server gets to invade the other servesr PvE zones and gank lowbies!! :D

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    J/K

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,267Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chryses

    I really enjoy playing GW2 but I feel they need to ramp up the importance of PvP.

    I have messed around in RvR and have enjoyed it but after a few hours I start to think what I am fighting for... status, great, some small buffs, mmmm ok. (no land, access or resource field?)

    There really isn't any point to it.  They need to do something like:

    - Winning server has access to new dungeons/zones A,B,C

    - Second server winning has access to new dungeons and not zones A,B,C

    - Last server gets nothing.

     

    If this was the case and my server was last, I would be involved a whole lot more because I know there is some type of consequence for my actions.

    Right now it feels more like 'whack a mole' at a side show that rewards free sweets. 

    This is one of the top three reasons I'm not playing. On top of WvW quickly becoming pointless it became a gold sink, where I was buying balistas and arrow carts hoping I'd make enough back to cover what I spent. I even felt a tinge of p2w. This is after having crazy fun for about 3 weeks. 

     

    The territory control has no tangable gain or repercussion for losing. After awhile this caused the "what for feeling." A relm buff being the only reward didn't work in swtor or tsw. Anything would help even ranks, but at this point it would take a lot more for me to get that "this is awesome" feeling again.

  • KingJigglyKingJiggly Simpsonville, SCPosts: 777Member
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by chryses

    I really enjoy playing GW2 but I feel they need to ramp up the importance of PvP.

    I have messed around in RvR and have enjoyed it but after a few hours I start to think what I am fighting for... status, great, some small buffs, mmmm ok. (no land, access or resource field?)

    There really isn't any point to it.  They need to do something like:

    - Winning server has access to new dungeons/zones A,B,C

    - Second server winning has access to new dungeons and not zones A,B,C

    - Last server gets nothing.

     

    If this was the case and my server was last, I would be involved a whole lot more because I know there is some type of consequence for my actions.

    Right now it feels more like 'whack a mole' at a side show that rewards free sweets. 

    This is one of the top three reasons I'm not playing. On top of WvW quickly becoming pointless it became a gold sink, where I was buying balistas and arrow carts hoping I'd make enough back to cover what I spent. I even felt a tinge of p2w. This is after having crazy fun for about 3 weeks. 

     

    The territory control has no tangable gain or repercussion for losing. After awhile this caused the "what for feeling." A relm buff being the only reward didn't work in swtor or tsw. Anything would help even ranks, but at this point it would take a lot more for me to get that "this is awesome" feeling again.

    My same thoughts. WvWvW is lacklustre. The addition of more siege equipment, dynamic events, and other similair things will make it much mroe enjoyable... and worth it.

  • davc123davc123 sloPosts: 371Member

    they must make  rank  

     

    http://imageshack.us/f/818/lalalald.png/

     

     

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by KingJiggly
     

    My same thoughts. WvWvW is lacklustre. The addition of more siege equipment, dynamic events, and other similair things will make it much mroe enjoyable... and worth it.

    it does need more few more things going for it on top of some sort of ranking system... but even in it's current stages still find it more fun than most all other themepark MMO PVP by a good margin

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by davc123

    they must make  rank  

     

    http://imageshack.us/f/818/lalalald.png/

     

     

    they already have that.  they give a title instead of a star. 

     

    i think more severe death penalty could make the game more interesting.  it also might cut down on the amount of zergs.  a debuff could force the player to decide to wait and help defend a location instead of just running out and rejoining the zerg.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • PaRoXiTiCPaRoXiTiC Denison, TXPosts: 576Member Uncommon
    They need to add meaninful DE's for world completion or achievements so lowbies will come in and we can gank them.?
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by PaRoXiTiC
    They need to add meaninful DE's for world completion or achievements so lowbies will come in and we can gank them.?

    I see plenty of them in battles already heh :)

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by davc123 they must make  rank     http://imageshack.us/f/818/lalalald.png/    
    they already have that.  they give a title instead of a star. 

    Well.. I dunno. Seems to me that in WvWvW, if you play a little, you get nothing. If you play a moderate amount, you get nothing. If you play a lot, you get nothing. If you play a helluvalot, you get nothing. If you play like an OH MY GOD YOU ARE INSANE WHY ARE YOU SPENDING SO MANY HOURS PLAYING THIS GAME.. you get a title.


    As I understand it, nobody even knows how many kills, caps, defences, etc. you need for a title because nobody has even gotten to the start of the final tier of the achievement yet.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chryses

    I really enjoy playing GW2 but I feel they need to ramp up the importance of PvP.

    I have messed around in RvR and have enjoyed it but after a few hours I start to think what I am fighting for... status, great, some small buffs, mmmm ok. (no land, access or resource field?)

    There really isn't any point to it.  They need to do something like:

    - Winning server has access to new dungeons/zones A,B,C

    - Second server winning has access to new dungeons and not zones A,B,C

    - Last server gets nothing.

     

    If this was the case and my server was last, I would be involved a whole lot more because I know there is some type of consequence for my actions.

    Right now it feels more like 'whack a mole' at a side show that rewards free sweets. 

    I am not sure that idea will work if you can join other servers as a guest.

    image

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Creslin321
    Originally posted by chryses

    I really enjoy playing GW2 but I feel they need to ramp up the importance of PvP.

    I have messed around in RvR and have enjoyed it but after a few hours I start to think what I am fighting for... status, great, some small buffs, mmmm ok. (no land, access or resource field?)

    There really isn't any point to it.  They need to do something like:

    - Winning server has access to new dungeons/zones A,B,C

    - Second server winning has access to new dungeons and not zones A,B,C

    - Last server gets nothing.

     

    If this was the case and my server was last, I would be involved a whole lot more because I know there is some type of consequence for my actions.

    Right now it feels more like 'whack a mole' at a side show that rewards free sweets. 

    I agree.  A Darkness Falls type dungeon would be more than welcome.

    Yea I agree.  A Darkness Falls dungeon would be the best addition for longevity of WvW.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • KarteliKarteli Providence, PAPosts: 2,646Member

    The best penalty I've seen in other games is when a defeated PVP player spawns far away as their punishment, and has to regain hps / mana / energy / tactical points /whatever slowly for a short time.

     

    Each person, in an ideal game, would be independant from others.


    As opposed to a WoW system in which your resurrect depends on entering an ongoing 30 second count, upon which anyone who dies can enter the count already in progress.  So if you die and enter the count at 29 seconds, then you resurrect 1 second later.  If you die when the global count was at 20 seconds, then you only need wait 10 seconds, etc.  It's a shitty system, as Tol'Barad showed many.

     

    If you are wondering what this means to RvR rewards, then, well, if the penalties were more stiff, then the victory would be more meaningful, and less of a Zerg.  The rewards would also have more meaning (in theory).

    Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcp
    Recognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.

  • chryseschryses LondonPosts: 1,453Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Serelisk

    I disagree completely. 

    The current system is based on server pride in order to strengthen the community therein. From what I've witnessed, that has seen a lot of success, though my testimony is mostly heresay. But here, I'm from Fort Aspenwood Alliance in the guild GODS and couldn't be more happy with the coordination between multiple guilds and the recognition of allied strength across the server as a whole. We don't win them all, but we don't give up either. 

    The system you're attempting to propose would cut off content from 2/3rds of the entire game's playerbase at any one time. I shouldn't have to point out to you everything that's wrong with that. 

     

    This is exactly what is needed.  Cutting off 2/3rds of the player base from specific content is what generates that server pride.  If you are leading you want to keep that lead. If you don't have access you pile in to make a difference.  I don't care if it reset once a week.

    As a player I need a reason to do something over and over.  A tiny buff just isn't enough.  In EvE if you fight hard and hold a territory you gain access to rare ore and plenty of richess.  It means something to win.

    GW2 is lucky in the sense that the actual mechanics are pretty decent (IMO only) they just need to scale up the difference between winning and losing.  Right now its negligble and hardly worth having epic battles over.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon

    For me WvWvW is as pointless as the Ettenmoors in LOTRO.

     

    Classic AV in WOW was pointless as well but it was at least fun and lasted less than 12 hours or so per match.  WvWvW is just bleh.

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by chryses
    Originally posted by Serelisk

    I disagree completely. 

    The current system is based on server pride in order to strengthen the community therein. From what I've witnessed, that has seen a lot of success, though my testimony is mostly heresay. But here, I'm from Fort Aspenwood Alliance in the guild GODS and couldn't be more happy with the coordination between multiple guilds and the recognition of allied strength across the server as a whole. We don't win them all, but we don't give up either. 

    The system you're attempting to propose would cut off content from 2/3rds of the entire game's playerbase at any one time. I shouldn't have to point out to you everything that's wrong with that. 

     

    This is exactly what is needed.  Cutting off 2/3rds of the player base from specific content is what generates that server pride.  If you are leading you want to keep that lead. If you don't have access you pile in to make a difference.  I don't care if it reset once a week.

    As a player I need a reason to do something over and over.  A tiny buff just isn't enough.  In EvE if you fight hard and hold a territory you gain access to rare ore and plenty of richess.  It means something to win.

    GW2 is lucky in the sense that the actual mechanics are pretty decent (IMO only) they just need to scale up the difference between winning and losing.  Right now its negligble and hardly worth having epic battles over.

    That won't work well at all.  There will always be dominant servers who will control the rewards.  And since they have no cure for long queues, getting tons of players to do WvWvW will just exacerbate the problem.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by chryses

    I really enjoy playing GW2 but I feel they need to ramp up the importance of PvP.

    I have messed around in RvR and have enjoyed it but after a few hours I start to think what I am fighting for... status, great, some small buffs, mmmm ok. (no land, access or resource field?)

    There really isn't any point to it.  They need to do something like:

    - Winning server has access to new dungeons/zones A,B,C

    - Second server winning has access to new dungeons and not zones A,B,C

    - Last server gets nothing.

     

    If this was the case and my server was last, I would be involved a whole lot more because I know there is some type of consequence for my actions.

    Right now it feels more like 'whack a mole' at a side show that rewards free sweets. 

     

    Perhaps GW2 is not the correct game for you then. The philosophy has been to "include" people rather than "exclude" and to play for "fun" rather than some form of reward at the end. 

  • PelaajaPelaaja HevonkuusiPosts: 697Member
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    For me WvWvW is as pointless as the Ettenmoors in LOTRO.

     

    Classic AV in WOW was pointless as well but it was at least fun and lasted less than 12 hours or so per match.  WvWvW is just bleh.

    In LoTRO they have The Delving of Fror and it doesn't add anything to the PvMP, I doubt the suggestion in OP would neither.

    Lately I've been prone to think the carrot in WvWvW is to fight and not even get a T-Shirt. A bit like FPS-games used to be. I don't think it's bad, but it apparently doesn't satisfy MMO-players.

    image

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I don't know about consequences.

    But the pvp lacks rivalry.

    They made a stupid decision dropping player names imo. A really stupid decision.

    Also WvW swaps the servers too often.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    They need to sort these issues like WvW being a gold sink with planetside 2 on the horizon (unless that ends up semi p2w too).

    Ps2 already has more long term appeal to me as it has the "that them gits that ninja our base when we weren't looking last week, let's kill them" factor. You need good enemies to sustain pvp long term, something Arenanet failed to recognise.
  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Serelisk

    The system you're attempting to propose would cut off content from 2/3rds of the entire game's playerbase at any one time. I shouldn't have to point out to you everything that's wrong with that. 

     

    Actually please do. Because I can see fk all wrong with having a small amount of content in a game you have to compete over when the game is already full of content accessible to everyone.

     

    It should be as clear as day what's wrong with the idea that people can't have stuff to compete over just because some people want access to everything all the time.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • PilnkplonkPilnkplonk zagrebPosts: 1,532Member

    Imo the main problem with WvvW at the moment is that rewards, especially individual ones are not in sync with possible costs and collective rewards as such. This has happened before, most notably in WAR before they managed to fix at least some of the initial problems.

    To put it simply, WvW lacks enough motivation for individuals and guilds. You tend to pay more than you gain when WvW-ing.

    This leads to a situation which is very unfortunate for a game which is PvP-centric, or at least claims that PvP and PvE are equal, and that is that you "need to PvE to PvP". Since PvP gives very lackluster monetary rewards, you need to PvE to earn money you want to spend in PvP. Since xp gain in WvW is on average miserable AND, which is even more harmful, it depends on your kills which means the lower level you are, the less xp you get, leveling in WvW becomes completely impractical. Again, you need to PvE so you can PvP.

     

    If i had a say, I'd make following changes to the game:

    1) XP rewards to anyone in the vicinity of a kill, get rid of tagging

    2) Away with stupid bag drops. I probably miss 3/4 of all my bags in a fight. Let the loot be delivered via mail or placed in some bank space.

    3) Trickle xp for anyone within a contested zone. Lurking around should be rewarded as well. The way rewards are set up now massively favors zergs.

    4) Introduce a new WvW XP with WvW leveling like in DAoC and WAR... and what they already have in GW2 sPvP. The rewards don't have to be material... they can be purely cosmetic, but there should be an exclusive rewards system for WvW play.

     

    as for the guilds:

    5) Holding keeps and other locations should provide rewards for the guilds and players holding them. Not taking keeps, but holding them. This is a very basic mistake that somehow always creeps in all initial RvR designs... Otherwise you'll have musical chairs. At the moment, holding keeps rewards the server but not the players. This is a basic conflict of interest which works against and not for the "server pride".

    6) In order to do that, each keep should provide trickle xp (either regular or WvW) just for being around them. In addition hefty bonuses for succesful defenses.

    7) Holding a keep should provide influence for the guild claiming it, both trickle and bonuses for succesful defense.

    8) In addition to xp and influence, keeps should make money for their guilds. They could feature merchants with ecxclusive wares and that can be taxed with money going into the guild bank.

    9) In order to avoid "keep ninjaing" claiming a keep should be resolved via a blind bid mechanic with guilds paying influence for the opportunity to claim a keep. In addition to resolving ownership issues, this would provide the guilds with an additional incentive to hold on to a keep for as long as possible in order to recuperate the inital cost AND would foster a greater sense of emotional attachment to keep ownership.

     

    in general/my pet peeves:

    10) Enemy names should be made visible. What did they think would happen? Invisible player names hugely detract from the very essence of competetive play. It's like hiding the faces of players in a soccer match.. It's just dumb, boring and alienating. I like to face opposing players that I know and fear and have a relationship with. WvW lost a lot of soul with this short-sighted, namby-pamby decision.

    11) Mounts in WvW. Too much running around as a penalty for dying again favors the safety of a zerg. When you factor in rewards which are almost exclusively dependent on finding an opponent, playing solo or in a small group becomes an exercise in masochism. Mounts would lessen the dull downtime (especially when you're defending your own territory) and make solo/small group play more viable.

    That was my 2 cps.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Agree with everything you say plink apart from the mounts.

    It should take time to reinforce, that was one of the things warhammer did wrong, it was too easy to get back into combat, especially when bioware took over and introduced the stupid rezzing inside keeps. You need consequences for dieing, it doesn't have to be xp loss or being looted, a gw2 / daoc style very long walk is enough.
  • MosesZDMosesZD Kirkwood, MOPosts: 1,383Member
    Originally posted by chryses
    Originally posted by Serelisk

    I disagree completely. 

    The current system is based on server pride in order to strengthen the community therein. From what I've witnessed, that has seen a lot of success, though my testimony is mostly heresay. But here, I'm from Fort Aspenwood Alliance in the guild GODS and couldn't be more happy with the coordination between multiple guilds and the recognition of allied strength across the server as a whole. We don't win them all, but we don't give up either. 

    The system you're attempting to propose would cut off content from 2/3rds of the entire game's playerbase at any one time. I shouldn't have to point out to you everything that's wrong with that. 

     

    This is exactly what is needed.  Cutting off 2/3rds of the player base from specific content is what generates that server pride.  If you are leading you want to keep that lead. If you don't have access you pile in to make a difference.  I don't care if it reset once a week.

    As a player I need a reason to do something over and over.  A tiny buff just isn't enough.  In EvE if you fight hard and hold a territory you gain access to rare ore and plenty of richess.  It means something to win.

    GW2 is lucky in the sense that the actual mechanics are pretty decent (IMO only) they just need to scale up the difference between winning and losing.  Right now its negligble and hardly worth having epic battles over.

     

    You people that keep pounding this drum really don't seem to understand people.  At all.    One of two things is far more likely:

     

    1.   People will migrate to the 'top' servers rather than be stuck on a loser.   (This is freshman, basic psychology.)

    2.  They'll just give up since they 'can't win.'    (This, too, is freshman, basic psychology.) 

     

     

«13
Sign In or Register to comment.