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Hipsters... hipsters everywhere

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  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    Yeah!  Farmville is what your new MMOs should strive to be.  110,000,000 people cannot be wrong, and it has the staying power to keep over 63 million of those people!

     

    The state of online gaming and quality is going nothing but up!

     

  • AlotAlot BredaPosts: 1,948Member


    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Hipsters have beome the "new" mainstream, so you can't really call them hipsters (by definition) any longer.

    YES!!!! It's about time somebody spoke the truth.

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by Alot

     


    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Hipsters have beome the "new" mainstream, so you can't really call them hipsters (by definition) any longer.

     

    YES!!!! It's about time somebody spoke the truth.

     Does this mean that the average shallow MMO player is a hipster, and the OP has everything backwards?  Making him a self-hating hipster?  The world is spinning.....NOOOOOOO!

     

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    I've probably said this a dozen times before: No one plays shitty games. If people are flocking toward a game, there's something good in it. Even if you don't get it, even if I don't get it, clearly those people are getting something out of it.

    Also, no matter how badly it fits your own preferences, popularity still remains the only objective measure of quality. It is evidence of some quality. You can't dismiss evidence just because you don't agree with it.

    Don't be the Flat Earth Society-guy.

    1. "Shitty" is a subjective term. So yes, people play "shitty games" in the opinions of others. Now some actually come out and try and point out why they feel said games are "shitty". Amazingly enough it has fk all to do with being a hipster. At no point do people say others are not getting something out of said games btw, so not sure what the point of that bit was.

     

    2. If you use popularity as an argument for the quality of a product, then you have lost said argument. If you turn around and try to explain why the mechanics are popular, then well done, you have a good case. If you just say "well it's popular so ergo it's quality", then the /facepalm reply is never going to be far away. And with good reason.

     

    I'll ignore the flat earth comment as it was utterly pointless.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    Intelligent games never go mainstream, because developing games for "smart" gamers automatically creates a niche, and niche is not where the money is.

    Look at EvE and TSW - mainstream success? Hardly.

    Well I enjoy niche games, I don't like to play games everyone and his uncle plays.

     

    I don't exclude myself just because it's popular. I play popular games or nitch. I'll play because I like it, not because some hipster says it's cool to or because some hype campaign tells me it's popular and a "must buy!!".

     

     

    well there is this game which was and still is nothing but hype campaign with no substance, therefore my theory turned out to be correct , stay away from mainstream success and play the true gems

  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by Xthos

    Yeah!  Farmville is what your new MMOs should strive to be.  110,000,000 people cannot be wrong, and it has the staying power to keep over 63 million of those people!

     

    The state of online gaming and quality is going nothing but up!

     

    haha yeah, that is sad but true.

     

  • YakkinYakkin irvine, CAPosts: 919Member
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    well there is this game which was and still is nothing but hype campaign with no substance, therefore my theory turned out to be correct , stay away from mainstream success and play the true gems

    What happens when a true gem also happens to be mainstream?

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    well there is this game which was and still is nothing but hype campaign with no substance, therefore my theory turned out to be correct , stay away from mainstream success and play the true gems

    What happens when a true gem also happens to be mainstream?

     

    Well we can compare to real life: what happened when eating healthy became mainstream, what happened when exercising on a regular basis became mainstream, what happened when equality between genders became mainstream, what happened when democracy became mainstream, what happened when having intercourse became mainstream?

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by evolver1972

    Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good.

     

    Hitler was popular.

     

    So was disco.

     

    The masses don't always know what they're talking about.  Which is why true democracy sucks.

    image OMG quit reading my mind! GET OUTTA MY HEAD! hehe ^ ^ seriously tho you did speak exactly what i was thinking. good stuff. 

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    well there is this game which was and still is nothing but hype campaign with no substance, therefore my theory turned out to be correct , stay away from mainstream success and play the true gems

    What happens when a true gem also happens to be mainstream?

     

    Well we can compare to real life: what happened when eating healthy became mainstream, what happened when exercising on a regular basis became mainstream, what happened when equality between genders became mainstream, what happened when democracy became mainstream, what happened when having intercourse became mainstream?

    I think in actual practice, none of those are mainstream, they all lie firmly in the niche market.  (well, except intercourse, that one is pretty much universal worldwide) image

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    Someone fix this old man's rocking chair. It must be squeaking while watching all these young whippersnappers from his porch.

    You stay sassy!

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    well there is this game which was and still is nothing but hype campaign with no substance, therefore my theory turned out to be correct , stay away from mainstream success and play the true gems

    What happens when a true gem also happens to be mainstream?

     

    Well we can compare to real life: what happened when eating healthy became mainstream, what happened when exercising on a regular basis became mainstream, what happened when equality between genders became mainstream, what happened when democracy became mainstream, what happened when having intercourse became mainstream?

    I think in actual practice, none of those are mainstream, they all lie firmly in the niche market.  (well, except intercourse, that one is pretty much universal worldwide) image

     

    In several countries, specially among certain generations, those are mainstream. 

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,214Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour
    Originally posted by Enigmatus
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    well there is this game which was and still is nothing but hype campaign with no substance, therefore my theory turned out to be correct , stay away from mainstream success and play the true gems

    What happens when a true gem also happens to be mainstream?

    Well we can compare to real life: what happened when eating healthy became mainstream, what happened when exercising on a regular basis became mainstream, what happened when equality between genders became mainstream, what happened when democracy became mainstream, what happened when having intercourse became mainstream?

    The world becomes a happier place for 20 minute intervals.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Doesn't matter. If you bring up up the Nazis or Hitler you lose the argument.

    Kind of dubious if it constitutes an argument yet, as of the first response.

    But you knew you were adopting a predjudicial stance, and so expected an argument, right?

    (Careful, that's the classic, original definiton of "troll")

    Its not prejudice, its an observation. Healthy critisism towards self-righteous posters who've become increasingly vocal lately. Anything mainstream is trash and anything they like and its under-appreciated.

    Psh...

     

    Ah! you're talking about GW2 fans then.... no wait a minute that must be wrong because GW2 is mainstream and under appreciated for its revolutionary gameplay, gamers just don't get it... that doesn't make sense when held up against your argument does it?

    Is GW2 under appreciated?

     

    Thats the feeling I get from fans.

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • CalerxesCalerxes LondonPosts: 1,630Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     Ah! you're talking about GW2 fans then.... no wait a minute that must be wrong because GW2 is mainstream and under appreciated for its revolutionary gameplay, gamers just don't get it... that doesn't make sense when held up against your argument does it?

    Buh whut?

    "There's a thread somewhere on mmorpg.com that isn't about GW2! Let's see if I can derail it."

    Ah! but this is essence of why this thread exists in the first place, root out the source of the problem and ye shall be FREE!

    This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up™ the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Foomerang   Originally posted by Quirhid   Have you noticed how everything popular seems to be bad and everything unpopular seems to be the greatest thing on earth? We are surrounded by hipsters, I tell you. And I hate hipsters... Its not like the games they like require a refined taste or anything. They're unpopular for a reason: they are crap. They love to make the McDonalds argument whenever it suits them, but when they encounter a game they like its like dining in a 3-Michelin-star restaurant. I've played enough games to know there's no such thing as refined taste. So take that fastfood metaphor and shove it. I know when I'm playing a mediocre game, and I'm not afraid to say so. Pirates of the Burning Sea was one of them. But only because I'm a sucker for Age of Sail-games. I'd only give it 6/10 but I still found it entertaining for good 3 weeks. Not everything I play is a masterpiece. So if something is popular, it must be good at something. Anyone who says "its full of shit" is talking out of their arse. There. I said it. I feel better for it.
      Everywhere? Name 1 member that fits your description and the quotes to back it up. I haven't seen a single member here who hates only mainstream big budget mmos and loves only small obscure mmos. I'm waiting patiently :)
    It is supposed to be a reference, but off the top of my head I don't remember from where. Who fits the bill? -Basically your average forum dweller who bashes every modern MMO out there with every chance they get, talks about the good ol' days, hypes up indie MMOs and gets excited whenever the word sandbox gets thrown around.

    I know many MMO purists too which fit the description, but I don't keep a list, sorry.



    Ah ok so basically youre just whining about an overall feeling without thinking too much about reality. Thanks! Btw most people on these forums that like indie, old school, sandbox games also play the new shinies that come out every year. They may complain but they put up the cash and get their hands dirty. Part of me thinks you are referring to these 1 day old alt accounts that pop up everyday, talking trash about everything. In which case id say stop getting trolled to the point where youre making hipster hate threads haha. Try to remember where youre at and the context: an internet forum about mmorpgs.
  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    You're not on the soap box?  You've entered the thread, stepped up to the pulpit for correction or edification.  Does one need to be the OP of the thread to stand on the soap box?

    As long as he's still occupying his soap box, then yes.  By definition.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
     

    1. "Shitty" is a subjective term. So yes, people play "shitty games" in the opinions of others. Now some actually come out and try and point out why they feel said games are "shitty". Amazingly enough it has fk all to do with being a hipster. At no point do people say others are not getting something out of said games btw, so not sure what the point of that bit was.

     

    2. If you use popularity as an argument for the quality of a product, then you have lost said argument. If you turn around and try to explain why the mechanics are popular, then well done, you have a good case. If you just say "well it's popular so ergo it's quality", then the /facepalm reply is never going to be far away. And with good reason.

     

    I'll ignore the flat earth comment as it was utterly pointless.

    Ehh..? The right way to disprove my argument would be either to show that people indeed play bad games voluntarily or that there is something else which attracts players other than quality. Sort of what Deivos was doing a couple of posts back although he was digressing quite a bit.

    You just grasp onto the terms I use which I can easily replace if they are not to your liking. You get nowhere by doing this. Instead, show me why the logic is wrong.

    And if you think my logic is wrong. What explanation do you offer for popularity? Furthermore, do you think two games, one popular and one unpopular, are equals? Wouldn't you say the more popular one is more succesful and likely better than the other?

    Popularity is evidence of some quality. I have always formed it like that. I never said popularity means its a quality product. WoW does something right. Rift does something right. Eve does something right. GW2 does something right. They are not full of shit, like some of the posters claim.

    If we turn this around, I can claim that "unpopularity is a sign that something is wrong". Which goes to say Mortal Online, Darkfall, Fallen Earth, Xsyon, Vanguard, Warhammer Online, Star Trek Online etc. have done something wrong or have serious flaws in them.

    I judge no one for liking any of those games. I am merely observing the popularity of games and what it tells us about said games. And to tie this to my original post. I despise people who dislike games because of their popularity, and their need to brand the said games and their players to justify their position. They don't say "too mainstream" - they say "its a WoW-clone", "ez-mode MMO", "the players are sheep", "another game for the console generation" or whatever.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
     

    1. "Shitty" is a subjective term. So yes, people play "shitty games" in the opinions of others. Now some actually come out and try and point out why they feel said games are "shitty". Amazingly enough it has fk all to do with being a hipster. At no point do people say others are not getting something out of said games btw, so not sure what the point of that bit was.

     

    2. If you use popularity as an argument for the quality of a product, then you have lost said argument. If you turn around and try to explain why the mechanics are popular, then well done, you have a good case. If you just say "well it's popular so ergo it's quality", then the /facepalm reply is never going to be far away. And with good reason.

     

    I'll ignore the flat earth comment as it was utterly pointless.

    Ehh..? The right way to disprove my argument would be either to show that people indeed play bad games voluntarily or that there is something else which attracts players other than quality. Sort of what Deivos was doing a couple of posts back although he was digressing quite a bit.

    You just grasp onto the terms I use which I can easily replace if they are not to your liking. You get nowhere by doing this. Instead, show me why the logic is wrong.

    And if you think my logic is wrong. What explanation do you offer for popularity? Furthermore, do you think two games, one popular and one unpopular, are equals? Wouldn't you say the more popular one is more succesful and likely better than the other?

    Trends, bandwagon effect, peer pressure, marketting.  That's what got I was able to though fast.  I am sure there I missed something. 

    Decision making is a process that is not purely rational thing where we only weight objective measureable indicators.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by fenistil

    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
     

    1. "Shitty" is a subjective term. So yes, people play "shitty games" in the opinions of others. Now some actually come out and try and point out why they feel said games are "shitty". Amazingly enough it has fk all to do with being a hipster. At no point do people say others are not getting something out of said games btw, so not sure what the point of that bit was.

     

    2. If you use popularity as an argument for the quality of a product, then you have lost said argument. If you turn around and try to explain why the mechanics are popular, then well done, you have a good case. If you just say "well it's popular so ergo it's quality", then the /facepalm reply is never going to be far away. And with good reason.

     

    I'll ignore the flat earth comment as it was utterly pointless.

    Ehh..? The right way to disprove my argument would be either to show that people indeed play bad games voluntarily or that there is something else which attracts players other than quality. Sort of what Deivos was doing a couple of posts back although he was digressing quite a bit.

    You just grasp onto the terms I use which I can easily replace if they are not to your liking. You get nowhere by doing this. Instead, show me why the logic is wrong.

    And if you think my logic is wrong. What explanation do you offer for popularity? Furthermore, do you think two games, one popular and one unpopular, are equals? Wouldn't you say the more popular one is more succesful and likely better than the other?

    Trends, bandwagon effect, peer pressure, marketting.  That's what got I was able to though fast.  I am sure there I missed something. 

    Decision making is a process that is not purely rational thing where we only weight objective measureable indicators.

     

    Thats why people may buy them. But like with STO, they didn't stay very long. Not that the time is directly proportional to quality, but when people find out what the game is about and how it is, they quit pretty soon if they don't like it.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    "I still play because my friends are still playing"

    "I still play because of community ingame"

    "I still play because I invested so much time and effort over the years"

    "I still play because [developer name] I support all their games"

    "I still play because [developer name] is great and will change(or revert changes) what I don't like in future surely."

    -------------------

    Even if you don't agree with any of the above there is one thing. There is no objective quality to games that you can measure, at least not in a sense you seem to imply. Quality is not a sum of how many people like certain game. If more people like certain game it just mean that more people like it. Not more not less. 

    What could be used as measureable objective quality of a game is things like: number of bugs, number of quests or classes or races and so on, how fast bugs and exploit get fixed, how fast Consumer Support resolve problems and so on. Still even those things are not easily measureable and especially comparable between games. Most importantly though while they have impact, sometimes great impact on game success it is not absolute one. There were and are games that released polished and with good support and failed and there are games that weren't as much polished and with bad support and succeded.

  • Paradigm68Paradigm68 New York, NYPosts: 884Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Paradigm68
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Paradigm68
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    What an amazing rant for accepting what you're given uncritically.  And just because something is popular because it's good at something that doesn't mean the thing is good. McDonald's is really good at marketing. That doesn't make McDonald's good.

    The point is: there is no "fine dining" in MMOs, therefore the fastfood metaphor is trashed.

    There has been fine dining in MMO's. You're inability to recognize it, doesn't mean it's not true.

    We have only your word for it. What prevents anyone from claiming their preferred game is fine dining?

    You need to prove that there is fine dining. I cannot prove a negative.

    But my word is all that is needed. Clearly the given quality of a thing is entirely subjective and/or relative judgment. That I state there is fine dining in MMO's means there is, merely because I state it. The only way your claim that there is no find dining in MMO's can hold up, is if no one disagrees with you. I disagreed with you. So, you're wrong.

  • strangepowersstrangepowers Chiacgo, ILPosts: 602Member Common


    Originally posted by evolver1972

    Originally posted by Ginaz

    Originally posted by evolver1972 Just because something is popular doesn't mean it's good.   Hitler was popular.   So was disco.   The masses don't always know what they're talking about.  Which is why true democracy sucks.
    Wow, it only took the first reponse to the OP to mention Hitler.  New record?
    Perfect example of my first statement.  :)

     

    I also mentioned *gasp* disco!  :P


    Somehow I doubt that you were around for the Disco era.


    And no, he wasn't popular, a whole war to fight him an all... he was very charismatic to his countrymen, and he had meth in the soldiers water lol.

    But nice job on the exaggerated and extremely attention seeking term of choice, couldn't of used something.... I don't know modern and familiar? Like... cars, soda, Justin Beiber?

    The scary part is one day the world will be run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating.

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by fenistil

    "I still play because my friends are still playing"

    "I still play because of community ingame"

    "I still play because I invested so much time and effort over the years"

    "I still play because [developer name] I support all their games"

    "I still play because [developer name] is great and will change(or revert changes) what I don't like in future surely."

    -------------------

    Even if you don't agree with any of the above there is one thing. There is no objective quality to games that you can measure, at least not in a sense you seem to imply. Quality is not a sum of how many people like certain game. If more people like certain game it just mean that more people like it. Not more not less. 

    What could be used as measureable objective quality of a game is things like: number of bugs, number of quests or classes or races and so on, how fast bugs and exploit get fixed, how fast Consumer Support resolve problems and so on. Still even those things are not easily measureable and especially comparable between games. Most importantly though while they have impact, sometimes great impact on game success it is not absolute one. There were and are games that released polished and with good support and failed and there are games that weren't as much polished and with bad support and succeded.

    All of those reasons are... I would never play a game because of that - and I'm sure some people do, but it is hardly widespread enough to make a serious impact.

    Popularity is an objective measure as much as bugs per lines of code is*. And I've never said its an absolute one. Like I mentioned in a previous post, I've always formed it "popularity is evidence of some quality". If you've read anything else its just other posters misquoting / misreading my meaning.

    *(BTW the number of quests, classes or races are definitely NOT a measure of quality)

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Paradigm68
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    We have only your word for it. What prevents anyone from claiming their preferred game is fine dining?

    You need to prove that there is fine dining. I cannot prove a negative.

    But my word is all that is needed. Clearly the given quality of a thing is entirely subjective and/or relative judgment. That I state there is fine dining in MMO's means there is, merely because I state it. The only way your claim that there is no find dining in MMO's can hold up, is if no one disagrees with you. I disagreed with you. So, you're wrong.

    So let me get this straight: Anyone can claim their game is fine dining?

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

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