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[Column] The Secret World: The Price of Progress

2

Comments

  • MueslinatorMueslinator AugsburgPosts: 78Member
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto
    Originally posted by Mueslinator

    All in all, TSW feels very 'premium' priced to me, without really having arguments why I should pay that premium price

     

    TSW is super premium, because there are reliable monthly update issues with new missions, new features, new weapons, ongoing story and a new Issue Poster every month. It´s like a new episode of "Lost" every month as DLC. Social events with moderated live radio (Gridstream), Halloween event, Christmas event was hinted too. 

    Worth 15 bucks a month? Hell yeah, this game is a great show and worth every penny.

    The shop is purely vanity items, no boosts, only dimension transfer, barbershop coupons, no damn grab boxes/gambling anywhere.

    Got the lifetime grandmaster pack, so this is what REAL "buy to play" looks like!

    It's nice that you have the feeling you get enough bang for your buck. I no longer do, so I cancelled my sub. Plus, since "clothes" are what I play for, placing them into the cash shop very much feels grating to me. I know that it's not "power" per se, but then, I don't play so my toon gets more powerful.

     
  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member

    I don't study this, because, I don't have to really deal with it.....But isn't the big problem the tax the EU or countries have on electronics or/and games?  So a company should make less money per sub, to accomodate high taxes?  So someone should really be paying less (before taxes), than someone else....and this is fair?  Don't like the tax, work on getting it reduced or eliminated...I am sure their are groups against it you could join and rally for the cause....Why should Funcom take the hit, because your goverment wants to tax you more?

     

    Also, if 15 going to 17 or 18 is a deal breaker, then I have a feeling 15 was a deal breaker too for most in that situation.

     

    I prefer sub games, and if I really like something, I would have zero problems paying much more than 18 for it...Heck people pay $70 for a phone they sit around and play games on, but complain about paying $15 for a MMO that many would spend as much time on a month.

     

    MMOs have been going down hill for the most part imo, and f2p is on the rise....Wonder if their is a real corrilation to f2p and mmos becoming more shallow and throw away.

     

  • madmikethegmmadmikethegm Little Rock, ARPosts: 41Member

    With a single player game it's different.  A flat box fee, you're done, enjoy the game.  MMOs require upkeep and development.  That takes money, and lots of it.

    Servers don't function on hopes and dreams.  Technicians don't maintain those servers just for the giggles.  Developers don't put in long hours at the office just for gold stars on their report cards.

    Where else would you rather an MMO company get their money from? Bake sales? Car washes? How about a nickel and dime cash shop where you have to buy bullets for your pistol at $1 a box of 100?  I bet after a day of grinding xp you'd be back to complaining again.

    Cut back on the McDonalds, Starbucks, and further streamline your budget to find that extra $15 a month.  Ask your mommy for more allowance. 

    How many $60 games do you buy and then burn through the content in a weekend? 

    It's not rocket science, people.

     

  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon

    Part of the argument here is "why pay more for a game that really offers nothing to justify the higher price?"

    In the UK an MMO sub will cost me £8.99, for TSW it will cost me £11.49.

    I can afford the extra £2.50, but I am not going to pay it. I bought the box game, played for a month and enjoyed it, but with a subscription higher than any other game I won't pay the extra, especially since this game also has a cash shop.

    TSW offers nothing to justify it costing more than any other MMO, so as a matter of principle I will not pay the extra.

    Most people can easily afford the extra but if we all just accept what is being shoved down our throats then it will become the norm.

    If this game had been priced at £8.99 a month, I probably would have subscribed and I wouldn't have ended up back in WoW to get my MMO fix each week.

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  • SlickShoesSlickShoes EdinburghPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by madmikethegm

    With a single player game it's different.  A flat box fee, you're done, enjoy the game.  MMOs require upkeep and development.  That takes money, and lots of it.

    Servers don't function on hopes and dreams.  Technicians don't maintain those servers just for the giggles.  Developers don't put in long hours at the office just for gold stars on their report cards.

    Where else would you rather an MMO company get their money from? Bake sales? Car washes? How about a nickel and dime cash shop where you have to buy bullets for your pistol at $1 a box of 100?  I bet after a day of grinding xp you'd be back to complaining again.

    Cut back on the McDonalds, Starbucks, and further streamline your budget to find that extra $15 a month.  Ask your mommy for more allowance. 

    How many $60 games do you buy and then burn through the content in a weekend? 

    It's not rocket science, people.

     

    See I buy plenty £40 games in a year and maybe get 20 hours out of them at best, but when this year FIFA13 releases and is £45 instead of £40, I will not buy it. CoD is also £5 more expensive than any other game, for no other reason than Activision know that people are buying the game regardless so why not charge an extra 5er?

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  • eddieg50eddieg50 Tolland, CTPosts: 1,613Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Ok, I'll be the crotchety old man here and say that it's still not a lot of money. Unless someone is dirt poor and is struggling to put food on the table (and no shame in many of us have been there) the amount of money people pay for beer, coffee, a data plan, extra snacks, heck movies, quickly end up dwarfing 15 dollars per month or 15 Euros.

    Even when I was just out of school with a horrible paying job, I could have afforded that. I might have to make a few hard decisions such as not buy coffee every day but I could have done it. and that's taking into account that dollar amount in the early 90's.

     

       You are one crotchety MF:)  I hate to say this but I prob spend 40 a month on DD, but I will still complain  about the Sub, I like F2P, now that could be because as a player who averages 10-15 hrs a week playing mmo's I am not hardcore and I dont end up spending that much money on a game. As you can imagine the hardcore players are the most vocal complainers and it is hard to blame them. On the other hand most mmo's have either F2p (the casuals prefered method) or the Sub model (the hardcores prefered method). so to me it gives you the best of both worlds. I do like Fallen Earths pricing and Aions also. therfore I would love it if TSW went to a Sub-F2P model similar to Fallen Earth

  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member

    I have enough money so I simply bought the grandmaster for 199$, best bang for the buck ever. GF too and recently another friend went grandmaster. Monthly content, TSW has the best "B2P" available on the market, period.

    Most of the players are lifetimers anyway, because it pays off for both sides. *shrug*

    FC made a wonderful and unique product and I like to support them with my money

     

    btw funded star citizen with 500$ and the game is not even on the market..

    [mod edit]

  • XthosXthos Columbus, OHPosts: 2,628Member
    Originally posted by eddieg50
    Originally posted by Sovrath

    Ok, I'll be the crotchety old man here and say that it's still not a lot of money. Unless someone is dirt poor and is struggling to put food on the table (and no shame in many of us have been there) the amount of money people pay for beer, coffee, a data plan, extra snacks, heck movies, quickly end up dwarfing 15 dollars per month or 15 Euros.

    Even when I was just out of school with a horrible paying job, I could have afforded that. I might have to make a few hard decisions such as not buy coffee every day but I could have done it. and that's taking into account that dollar amount in the early 90's.

     

       You are one crotchety MF:)  I hate to say this but I prob spend 40 a month on DD, but I will still complain  about the Sub, I like F2P, now that could be because as a player who averages 10-15 hrs a week playing mmo's I am not hardcore and I dont end up spending that much money on a game. As you can imagine the hardcore players are the most vocal complainers and it is hard to blame them. On the other hand most mmo's have either F2p (the casuals prefered method) or the Sub model (the hardcores prefered method). so to me it gives you the best of both worlds. I do like Fallen Earths pricing and Aions also

     I can see the complaining more from the ADD, I play 10-15 different games, but I would think the hardcore players would realize that if they are putting in 20-40 hours a week into a MMO, what is that really costing them per hour a month?  Below is based on $15/mo sub (upped charge of $18)

    10 hr/wk - $0.375 ($0.45)/ hr for a month.

    15 hr/wk - $0.250 ($0.30)/ hr for a month.

    20 hr/wk - $0.1875 ($0.225)/ hr for a month.

    30 hr/wk - $0.125 ($0.15)/ hr for a month.

    40 hr/wk - $0.09375 ($0.1125)/ hr for a month.

     

    It really doesn't break down to much, and if you want to feel like you are paying $15, instead of $18, play 5 more hours a week, and you will be paying less per hour than the person playing 5 hours less than you!

     

    1.5 - 2 hour movie with food/drink -  $15   - $7.50 to $10 an hour....or 1 movie=1 month of MMO.

     

     

     

     

     

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    I have enough money so I simply bought the grandmaster for 199$, best bang for the buck ever. GF too and recently another friend went grandmaster. Monthly content, TSW has the best "B2P" available on the market, period.

    Most of the players are lifetimers anyway, because it pays off for both sides. *shrug*

    FC made a wonderful and unique product and I like to support them with my money

     

    btw funded star citizen with 500$ and the game is not even on the market..

    [mod edit]

    It ain't B2P. You probably should'nt be making bold claims like "the best, period" unless you want your opinion to be discarded immediately.

    "Adults have money" is an ignorant comment.

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  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    I have enough money so I simply bought the grandmaster for 199$, best bang for the buck ever. GF too and recently another friend went grandmaster. Monthly content, TSW has the best "B2P" available on the market, period.

    Most of the players are lifetimers anyway, because it pays off for both sides. *shrug*

    FC made a wonderful and unique product and I like to support them with my money

     

    btw funded star citizen with 500$ and the game is not even on the market..

    [mod edit]

    It ain't B2P. You probably should'nt be making bold claims like "the best, period" unless you want your opinion to be discarded immediately.

    "Adults have money" is an ignorant comment.

    Mate, the grandmaster pack is in FACT "B2P", and it's the better B2P because:

    1. Monthly content and feature updates

    2. No cash grab gambling boxes

    3. No treasure chest key shady business

     

    yes, period

     

    Every freakin' lifetime sub is "B2P", some are cheaper and have less value, some are more expensive and you get more from it.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    I have enough money so I simply bought the grandmaster for 199$, best bang for the buck ever. GF too and recently another friend went grandmaster. Monthly content, TSW has the best "B2P" available on the market, period.

    Most of the players are lifetimers anyway, because it pays off for both sides. *shrug*

    FC made a wonderful and unique product and I like to support them with my money

     

    btw funded star citizen with 500$ and the game is not even on the market..

    [mod edit]

    It ain't B2P. You probably should'nt be making bold claims like "the best, period" unless you want your opinion to be discarded immediately.

    "Adults have money" is an ignorant comment.

    Mate, the grandmaster pack is in FACT "B2P", and it's the better B2P because:

    1. Monthly content and feature updates

    2. No cash grab gambling boxes

    3. No treasure chest key shady business

     

    yes, period

     

    Every freakin' lifetime sub is "B2P", some are cheaper and have less value, some are more expensive and you get more from it.

    If there is no means of getting the items from a games cash shop without spending money i think it's a bad design imho espeically for a game with sub fee.. saying that if someone really enjoys an MMO the lifetime is probabaly worth it as long as you are sure it's a game you'll always come back to.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Greencastle, INPosts: 2,594Member Uncommon

    Humm, I guess if you want to call Progress Lay-Off's and taking advantage of there gamers, then so be it Funcom. Looks to me some other folks disagree. Lets see how well your next hyped up game comes out.

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  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    If there is no means of getting the items from a games cash shop without spending money i think it's a bad design imho espeically for a game with sub fee.. saying that if someone really enjoys an MMO the lifetime is probabaly worth it as long as you are sure it's a game you'll always come back to.

     

    there are tons and tons of clothing items in game, there are tons of clothing rewards for missions, there are tons of Deck clothing rewards. Subscribers even got points for the shop with their sub. Where is the problem?

    I only have problems with grab bags in other games, not with dimension transfer coupons and a few stat-less clothing items and vanity pets.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    If there is no means of getting the items from a games cash shop without spending money i think it's a bad design imho espeically for a game with sub fee.. saying that if someone really enjoys an MMO the lifetime is probabaly worth it as long as you are sure it's a game you'll always come back to.

     

    there are tons and tons of clothing items in game, there are tons of clothing rewards for missions, there are tons of Deck clothing rewards. Subscribers even got points for the shop with their sub. Where is the problem?

    I only have problems with grab bags in other games, not with dimension transfer coupons and a few stat-less clothing items and vanity pets.

    i never got points when sub'ed to TSW for the shop is this something new?

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon

    Box + Sub + Shop. On top of that, a lifetime option. And on top of that, they are releasing extremely small monthly updates that take about 4 hours to complete.

     

    What is crazy is that as soon as an expansion comes out, the people that blew $200 - $300 on this thing are going to have to pony up even more. And are there really items that are unattainable through gameplay in the cash shop? Why?! You already have a sub...

     

    I just don't get it anymore. The game is just not good enough to justify all this bullshit. WoW is more honest with their payment model, if only barely.

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Greencastle, INPosts: 2,594Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04

    Box + Sub + Shop. On top of that, a lifetime option. And on top of that, they are releasing extremely small monthly updates that take about 4 hours to complete.

     

    What is crazy is that as soon as an expansion comes out, the people that blew $200 - $300 on this thing are going to have to pony up even more. And are there really items that are unattainable through gameplay in the cash shop? Why?! You already have a sub...

     

    I just don't get it anymore. The game is just not good enough to justify all this bullshit. WoW is more honest with their payment model, if only barely.

    " Greed " and no respect for there gamers.

    YOU SIR deserve

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  • JaedorJaedor Denver, COPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by colddog04
    Box + Sub + Shop. On top of that, a lifetime option. And on top of that, they are releasing extremely small monthly updates that take about 4 hours to complete. What is crazy is that as soon as an expansion comes out, the people that blew $200 - $300 on this thing are going to have to pony up even more. And are there really items that are unattainable through gameplay in the cash shop? Why?! You already have a sub... I just don't get it anymore. The game is just not good enough to justify all this bullshit. WoW is more honest with their payment model, if only barely.


    They've already said there is no plan for expansions. New content will roll out in the monthly updates.

    Free Funcom points to spend in the store rolled out in early September IIRC. Complete 30 missions in 2-3 days and you get the points.

  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    i never got points when sub'ed to TSW for the shop is this something new?

    before I got the lifetime there were sub packages of 3/6/12 months sub plus FC points for the shop, most points for the 12month sub

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto

    I have enough money so I simply bought the grandmaster for 199$, best bang for the buck ever. GF too and recently another friend went grandmaster. Monthly content, TSW has the best "B2P" available on the market, period.

    Most of the players are lifetimers anyway, because it pays off for both sides. *shrug*

    FC made a wonderful and unique product and I like to support them with my money

     

    btw funded star citizen with 500$ and the game is not even on the market..

    [mod edit]

    It ain't B2P. You probably should'nt be making bold claims like "the best, period" unless you want your opinion to be discarded immediately.

    "Adults have money" is an ignorant comment.

    Mate, the grandmaster pack is in FACT "B2P", and it's the better B2P because:

    1. Monthly content and feature updates

    2. No cash grab gambling boxes

    3. No treasure chest key shady business

     

    yes, period

     

    Every freakin' lifetime sub is "B2P", some are cheaper and have less value, some are more expensive and you get more from it.

    True, lifetime is B2P. I was thinking about their main model, but you were referring to lifetime which is a B2P option.

    Onto your points:

    1. There are other B2P and F2P titles that give "monthly content and feature updates" as well.

    2. "Cash grab gambling boxes" not sure what the heck you mean.

    3. Ok...now I see. Seems like a reasonable discussion is out of the question....

     

    Can't argue with "its the best, period". Just remember that the next time you say someone else is being unreasonable.

     

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  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by colddog04

    Box + Sub + Shop. On top of that, a lifetime option. And on top of that, they are releasing extremely small monthly updates that take about 4 hours to complete.

    Lairs, new missions, events, soon a raid, nightmare modes, new area early next year, new features and weapons every month... 4 hours if you say so.

    I've paid more for DLC for other games or SP games for 69$ with a game time of 12 hours. If 15$ for monthly DLC seems "greedy" to you... LOL.. and I haven't even finished all launch missions, probably half of it

  • YakamomotoYakamomoto Osaka, ARPosts: 363Member
    Originally posted by Kuppa

    Onto your points:

    1. There are other B2P and F2P titles that give "monthly content and feature updates" as well.

    2. "Cash grab gambling boxes" not sure what the heck you mean.

    3. Ok...now I see. Seems like a reasonable discussion is out of the question....

     

    Can't argue with "its the best, period". Just remember that the next time you say someone else is being unreasonable.

     

    1. which ones? STO?

    2. TOR cartel pack lockboxes coming with f2p and gw2 treasure chest keys

    3. if you say so..

  • BeansnBreadBeansnBread PshPosts: 5,501Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto
    Originally posted by colddog04

    Box + Sub + Shop. On top of that, a lifetime option. And on top of that, they are releasing extremely small monthly updates that take about 4 hours to complete.

    Lairs, new missions, events, soon a raid, nightmare modes, new area early next year, new features and weapons every month... 4 hours if you say so.

    I've paid more for DLC for other games or SP games for 69$ with a game time of 12 hours. If 15$ for monthly DLC seems "greedy" to you... LOL.. and I haven't even finished all launch missions, probably half of it

    Are you saying that the raid hasn't been released yet?

     

    Mother of God....

  • midmagicmidmagic Portland, ORPosts: 614Member
    Originally posted by Kuppa

    Originally posted by Yakamomoto
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto
    I have enough money so I simply bought the grandmaster for 199$, best bang for the buck ever. GF too and recently another friend went grandmaster. Monthly content, TSW has the best "B2P" available on the market, period. Most of the players are lifetimers anyway, because it pays off for both sides. *shrug* FC made a wonderful and unique product and I like to support them with my money   btw funded star citizen with 500$ and the game is not even on the market.. [mod edit]

    It ain't B2P. You probably should'nt be making bold claims like "the best, period" unless you want your opinion to be discarded immediately.

    "Adults have money" is an ignorant comment.

    Mate, the grandmaster pack is in FACT "B2P", and it's the better B2P because:

    1. Monthly content and feature updates

    2. No cash grab gambling boxes

    3. No treasure chest key shady business

     

    yes, period

     

    Every freakin' lifetime sub is "B2P", some are cheaper and have less value, some are more expensive and you get more from it.

    True, lifetime is B2P. I was thinking about their main model, but you were referring to lifetime which is a B2P option.

    Onto your points:

    1. There are other B2P and F2P titles that give "monthly content and feature updates" as well.

    2. "Cash grab gambling boxes" not sure what the heck you mean.

    3. Ok...now I see. Seems like a reasonable discussion is out of the question....

     

    Can't argue with "its the best, period". Just remember that the next time you say someone else is being unreasonable.

     

     

    The prize boxes or lotto tickets are common Asian game cash shop items. They randomly provide rewards ranging from nothing to top-end items. These types of items have been slowly working their way into western cash shops.

    Forever looking for employment. Life is rather dull without it.

  • jbombardjbombard SapporoPosts: 531Member Uncommon
    The currency problem is what turned me off of Age of Conan. They really should use 1 base currency for everyone like most other online games I have played. I think for sub games, it is a matter of value for amount paid. If games can't pump out content on a frequent basis, and customers aren't feeling like they are getting enough value then either they need to lower the price of the sub or pump out more content.
  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by colddog04
    Originally posted by Yakamomoto
    Originally posted by colddog04

    Box + Sub + Shop. On top of that, a lifetime option. And on top of that, they are releasing extremely small monthly updates that take about 4 hours to complete.

    Lairs, new missions, events, soon a raid, nightmare modes, new area early next year, new features and weapons every month... 4 hours if you say so.

    I've paid more for DLC for other games or SP games for 69$ with a game time of 12 hours. If 15$ for monthly DLC seems "greedy" to you... LOL.. and I haven't even finished all launch missions, probably half of it

    Are you saying that the raid hasn't been released yet?

     Mother of God....

    Because raids are more important than life itself, right?  The upcoming patch will have major enhancements to PvP, the NYC raid,  the chainsaw  (with associated missions), optional reticle combat, the Albion theater for RP, and probably more.  The patches vary in size, but the next one will be big.

    http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=60920

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