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Hipsters... hipsters everywhere

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  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Paradigm68
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Paradigm68
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    What an amazing rant for accepting what you're given uncritically.  And just because something is popular because it's good at something that doesn't mean the thing is good. McDonald's is really good at marketing. That doesn't make McDonald's good.

    The point is: there is no "fine dining" in MMOs, therefore the fastfood metaphor is trashed.

    There has been fine dining in MMO's. You're inability to recognize it, doesn't mean it's not true.

    We have only your word for it. What prevents anyone from claiming their preferred game is fine dining?

    You need to prove that there is fine dining. I cannot prove a negative.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,578Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Paradigm68
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Paradigm68
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    What an amazing rant for accepting what you're given uncritically.  And just because something is popular because it's good at something that doesn't mean the thing is good. McDonald's is really good at marketing. That doesn't make McDonald's good.

    The point is: there is no "fine dining" in MMOs, therefore the fastfood metaphor is trashed.

    There has been fine dining in MMO's. You're inability to recognize it, doesn't mean it's not true.

    We have only your word for it. What prevents anyone from claiming their preferred game is fine dining?

    You need to prove that there is fine dining. I cannot prove a negative.

    Fine dining MMO's will be very niche as the cost to play will be high. Just like eating in a Michelin star restaurant.

    image
  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common
    Originally posted by Calerxes
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Doesn't matter. If you bring up up the Nazis or Hitler you lose the argument.

    Kind of dubious if it constitutes an argument yet, as of the first response.

    But you knew you were adopting a predjudicial stance, and so expected an argument, right?

    (Careful, that's the classic, original definiton of "troll")

    Its not prejudice, its an observation. Healthy critisism towards self-righteous posters who've become increasingly vocal lately. Anything mainstream is trash and anything they like and its under-appreciated.

    Psh...

     

    Ah! you're talking about GW2 fans then.... no wait a minute that must be wrong because GW2 is mainstream and under appreciated for its revolutionary gameplay, gamers just don't get it... that doesn't make sense when held up against your argument does it?

    Is GW2 under appreciated?

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • XAPKenXAPKen Northwest, INPosts: 4,919Member Uncommon
    Old fart joke (60s era) that might offer insight into fashionable non-conformity:

     

    Man: So what are you all about?

    Hippie:  I'm a non-conformist, an individual.  Fighting repression from the system.  I am my own person doing my own thing!

    Man: So why the long hair, tie-died clothing and beads?

    Hippie:  It's the uniform.

     


    Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now turned Amateur Game Developer.  I don't Forum PVP.  If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident.  Realm Lords 2 on MMORPG.com
  • LobotomistLobotomist ZagrebPosts: 5,053Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Have you noticed how everything popular seems to be bad and everything unpopular seems to be the greatest thing on earth? We are surrounded by hipsters, I tell you. And I hate hipsters...

    Its not like the games they like require a refined taste or anything. They're unpopular for a reason: they are crap. They love to make the McDonalds argument whenever it suits them, but when they encounter a game they like its like dining in a 3-Michelin-star restaurant. I've played enough games to know there's no such thing as refined taste. So take that fastfood metaphor and shove it.

    I know when I'm playing a mediocre game, and I'm not afraid to say so. Pirates of the Burning Sea was one of them. But only because I'm a sucker for Age of Sail-games. I'd only give it 6/10 but I still found it entertaining for good 3 weeks. Not everything I play is a masterpiece.

    So if something is popular, it must be good at something. Anyone who says "its full of shit" is talking out of their arse.

    There. I said it. I feel better for it.

    I am a hipster

    But I hate hipsters ...

     

    I was a hipster since I was born - or let me use the right term for this NON-CONFORMIST

    Its just my character, something in my blood.

     

    Than in last few years we have this trend to hate everything mainstream , making you "HIP" and popular with "HIP" community.

    I am just underlying the clear paradox of this. Being non conformist means you dont subscribe to trends. But they do.

    Basicaly "hipsters" are fake.

     

    However

    And i can not stress this enough : popular =/= good ... at least not always.

     

    Just look IMDB , you have mass vote there for movie rating. Yet some great movies have poor vote, and some shit have high vote. Why ?

    Because real great works of art that move us - speak to limited number of people , when they speak to masses they are deluted in order to please everyone.

     

     

    image

  • immodiumimmodium ManchesterPosts: 1,578Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Have you noticed how everything popular seems to be bad and everything unpopular seems to be the greatest thing on earth? We are surrounded by hipsters, I tell you. And I hate hipsters...

    Its not like the games they like require a refined taste or anything. They're unpopular for a reason: they are crap. They love to make the McDonalds argument whenever it suits them, but when they encounter a game they like its like dining in a 3-Michelin-star restaurant. I've played enough games to know there's no such thing as refined taste. So take that fastfood metaphor and shove it.

    I know when I'm playing a mediocre game, and I'm not afraid to say so. Pirates of the Burning Sea was one of them. But only because I'm a sucker for Age of Sail-games. I'd only give it 6/10 but I still found it entertaining for good 3 weeks. Not everything I play is a masterpiece.

    So if something is popular, it must be good at something. Anyone who says "its full of shit" is talking out of their arse.

    There. I said it. I feel better for it.

    Cancer's very popular and it is good at something, killing people. Let's embrace it.

     

    Anyway. First things first, I love McDonalds.

    Second, the "something popular so it must be good at something" argument. I'm trying to wrap my head around this one. I'm using Beiber for this as I don't follower popular culture. He's popular so he must be good at something.

    IMO he's very average. Average singer, average songs(does he write his own songs?), average looking? So what the F is he good at? Making money? Manipulating what's trendy at the time to earn a fast buck? Thats not him doing it, it suits that are pulling his strings responsible.

     

    Another thing, this has been going on for decades. People hating whats popular isn't going to change.

    image
  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member

    No I dont notice how everything popular is bad. What is bad is bad and something can be both popular and bad because there are tons of other metrics besides popularity which decides if a game is good or not. 

    Innovation, difficulty, depth, virtual world etc are things I look for when deciding if an MMO is good or not. Something which games like WoW and all their clones lack.

    And this goes for movies and other media as well. I for example think that Prometheus was trash, so was Avatar. Both were more about technical effects rather than story and for me story is nr 1 when it comes to movies.

  • JemcrystalJemcrystal Champaign, ILPosts: 1,552Member Uncommon
    Mediocre games do suck butt but I will casually play them.  Occasionally they have a game dynamic that you cannot find anywhere else.  This one special dynamic might impress a few peeps so much that they become loyal.

  • zymurgeistzymurgeist Pittsville, VAPosts: 5,212Member Uncommon
    Being a sheeple guided only by herd instinct is popular, and bad. Trying to be different when everyone else is trying to be different, by being different the same way, isn't being different either. The problem now is so many people want to unload a big pile of crap on everything and the internet is ready made for that.  Bleating game X failed because it's not a sandbox or some variation on the theme isn't edgy. It's just more of the same old sheep shit.

    "Strong and bitter words indicate a weak cause" ~Victor Hugo

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Calerxes

     Ah! you're talking about GW2 fans then.... no wait a minute that must be wrong because GW2 is mainstream and under appreciated for its revolutionary gameplay, gamers just don't get it... that doesn't make sense when held up against your argument does it?

    Buh whut?

    "There's a thread somewhere on mmorpg.com that isn't about GW2! Let's see if I can derail it."

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • RoxtarrRoxtarr Freeland, MI, MIPosts: 1,122Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by grimal

    I can see that happening with the younger crowds.  But there are some...more mature folk here too.

    You mean  us 50-somethings?

    What in the world led you to believe they're immune to peer pressure?  More resistant, at best.

    Remember Celine Dion and that #&@*&;$*^&! Titanic theme?  I hated the piece of crap with such a passion...simple overexposure...poor me, trapped in an office and cursed with 'lite rock' Musak that played it 1E+17 times a day, every day, for years... 

    She'd best hope I'm never near Vegas with a weapon.

    Edit. Nevermind. I'm not sure I even agree with what I posted.  Carry on :P

    If in 1982 we played with the current mentality, we would have burned down all the pac man games since the red ghost was clearly OP. Instead we just got better at the game.
    image

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Its not prejudice, its an observation. Healthy critisism towards self-righteous posters who've become increasingly vocal lately. Anything mainstream is trash and anything they like and its under-appreciated.

    Psh...

    Soo...you being self-righteous is okay, but if they do it...

    How am I self-righteous?

    Preaching against self-righteousness, of course.

    Well then, none of us can avoid it. You yourself are self-righteous.

    Indeed, that is often the case.

    But I'm not the one on the soap box.  That's you.

    You're not on the soap box?  You've entered the thread, stepped up to the pulpit for correction or edification.  Does one need to be the OP of the thread to stand on the soap box?

    I understand your point though.  The original post is hypocrtical to a point, but is that in his point or how he vented it in frustration?  He does have a point with the OP does he not?

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,211Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Lobotomist

    I am a hipster

    But I hate hipsters ...

    I was a hipster since I was born - or let me use the right term for this NON-CONFORMIST

    Its just my character, something in my blood.

    Than in last few years we have this trend to hate everything mainstream , making you "HIP" and popular with "HIP" community.

    I am just underlying the clear paradox of this. Being non conformist means you dont subscribe to trends. But they do.

    Basicaly "hipsters" are fake.

    However

    And i can not stress this enough : popular =/= good ... at least not always.

    Just look IMDB , you have mass vote there for movie rating. Yet some great movies have poor vote, and some shit have high vote. Why ?

    Because real great works of art that move us - speak to limited number of people , when they speak to masses they are deluted in order to please everyone.

    No.  Art, art in whatever form it takes, is subjective.  You're inferring that the limited group, just because it has a narrowly defined and exclusive criteria for what is good, is more right than the unwashed masses who may appreciate that art for other reasons.

    Outside of the delivery, the OP seems to criticizing the idea that small exclusive sub-groups withing the mmo demographic somehow have better taste or more insight into what makes an mmo good.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Quirhid


    Have you noticed how everything popular seems to be bad and everything unpopular seems to be the greatest thing on earth? We are surrounded by hipsters, I tell you. And I hate hipsters...

    Its not like the games they like require a refined taste or anything. They're unpopular for a reason: they are crap. They love to make the McDonalds argument whenever it suits them, but when they encounter a game they like its like dining in a 3-Michelin-star restaurant. I've played enough games to know there's no such thing as refined taste. So take that fastfood metaphor and shove it.

    I know when I'm playing a mediocre game, and I'm not afraid to say so. Pirates of the Burning Sea was one of them. But only because I'm a sucker for Age of Sail-games. I'd only give it 6/10 but I still found it entertaining for good 3 weeks. Not everything I play is a masterpiece.

    So if something is popular, it must be good at something. Anyone who says "its full of shit" is talking out of their arse.

    There. I said it. I feel better for it.


    Everywhere? Name 1 member that fits your description and the quotes to back it up. I haven't seen a single member here who hates only mainstream big budget mmos and loves only small obscure mmos. I'm waiting patiently :)

  • wordizwordiz Eugene, ORPosts: 464Member
    Children, children everywhere.
  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    Originally posted by Paradigm68
    Originally posted by Quirhid
     

    What an amazing rant for accepting what you're given uncritically.  And just because something is popular because it's good at something that doesn't mean the thing is good. McDonald's is really good at marketing. That doesn't make McDonald's good.

    The point is: there is no "fine dining" in MMOs, therefore the fastfood metaphor is trashed.

    Why bother creating fine dining when people are lapping up shit all the time?

     

    Personally I don't gauge a games quality on it's popularity, nor do I dislike games simply because they are popular.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • PsychowPsychow SF Giants Territory, CAPosts: 1,784Member
    Ironicly, I doubt the hipsters could agree on what a fine dining MMO is...
  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Ironicly, I doubt the hipsters could agree on what a fine dining MMO is...

    They have, you just probably haven't heard of it...

     

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Ironicly, I doubt the hipsters could agree on what a fine dining MMO is...

    They have, you just probably haven't heard of it...

     

    True, but I like to think of myself as Tragically Hip.  (actual in game name for some of my avatars)

    image

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,998Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Quirhid
    nvm

    You know, I read this before you deleted it.

    Not really fair, I finally got you to admit you don't care for any MMORPG, and the question stills stands.  Do you now (or did you ever) consider any MMORPG a good "game" or are you so hip you don't enjoy any of them?

    What exactly are you looking for?

    While most hipsters are pretty clear what they dislike, trying to figure out what they are looking for is the real challenge.

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    Have you noticed how everything popular seems to be bad and everything unpopular seems to be the greatest thing on earth? We are surrounded by hipsters, I tell you. And I hate hipsters...

    Its not like the games they like require a refined taste or anything. They're unpopular for a reason: they are crap. They love to make the McDonalds argument whenever it suits them, but when they encounter a game they like its like dining in a 3-Michelin-star restaurant. I've played enough games to know there's no such thing as refined taste. So take that fastfood metaphor and shove it.

    I know when I'm playing a mediocre game, and I'm not afraid to say so. Pirates of the Burning Sea was one of them. But only because I'm a sucker for Age of Sail-games. I'd only give it 6/10 but I still found it entertaining for good 3 weeks. Not everything I play is a masterpiece.

    So if something is popular, it must be good at something. Anyone who says "its full of shit" is talking out of their arse.

    There. I said it. I feel better for it.

    Agreed 100%.  I am one of those types who hate anything indie, indie things make me sick and want to puke!

     

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Ironicly, I doubt the hipsters could agree on what a fine dining MMO is...

    They have, you just probably haven't heard of it...

     

    True, but I like to think of myself as Tragically Hip.  (actual in game name for some of my avatars)

    image

    It's like the iconic hipster joke -

    What's a hipster's favorite band?

    I don't know, you've probably never heard of them...

    It is ironic when people complain about hipsters. As hipsters in general are ironic because by being hipsters they are popular and trendy. It's like Goth kids rejecting social norms - to adapt a different set of social norms.

    The real joke is humanity - one big punch line.

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member

    Honestly Quirhid...I agree with you lol.

    It seems that the more popular and well received a game is, the more hate it gets.  I mean, compare the amount of hate that Guild Wars 2 gets on these forums to the amount of hate that Mortal Online gets...then ask yourself which one is the better game lol :).

    And most of the folks that post negative things about popular games are fans of obscure or dead games that most people don't know about.  Many of them even go so far as to argue that said popular games don't even qualify as MMORPGs.

    The craziest thing is that I even like the older games like UO...heck I even enjoyed Darkfall.  The difference is that I don't let that stop me from liking the more popular games like GW2.

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

  • GardavsshadeGardavsshade Cedar Springs, MIPosts: 762Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Ironicly, I doubt the hipsters could agree on what a fine dining MMO is...

    They have, you just probably haven't heard of it...

     

    True, but I like to think of myself as Tragically Hip.  (actual in game name for some of my avatars)

    image

    It's like the iconic hipster joke -

    What's a hipster's favorite band?

    I don't know, you've probably never heard of them...

    It is ironic when people complain about hipsters. As hipsters in general are ironic because by being hipsters they are popular and trendy. It's like Goth kids rejecting social norms - to adapt a different set of social norms.

    The real joke is humanity - one big punch line.

    Agreed.

    Somebody on these boards said something about a recent MMO feeling "soulless"... it's soulless because Humanity has lost it's soul. Can't make something really good and useful with crap tools.

    We just got to get the good tools back we misplaced is all.

     

  • Creslin321Creslin321 Baltimore, MDPosts: 5,359Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Psychow
    Ironicly, I doubt the hipsters could agree on what a fine dining MMO is...

    They have, you just probably haven't heard of it...

     

    True, but I like to think of myself as Tragically Hip.  (actual in game name for some of my avatars)

    image

    It's like the iconic hipster joke -

    What's a hipster's favorite band?

    I don't know, you've probably never heard of them...

    It is ironic when people complain about hipsters. As hipsters in general are ironic because by being hipsters they are popular and trendy. It's like Goth kids rejecting social norms - to adapt a different set of social norms.

    The real joke is humanity - one big punch line.

     I don't like hipsters...too mainstream ;).

    Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?

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