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MMO'ers are spoiled these days.

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Comments

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by itgrowls

    Let me correct some things for you. At no time has Blizz under the direction of Ghostcrawler ever listened to the players needs. (except this one time when they lost 2 mil subs all at once, and then they appealed to the RPer's with transmog suddenly after 6 years of requests) that's number 1

    number 2 games where the community is listened to and the game adjusted have survived just fine. (Rift)

    number 3 games with subs are the only ones dying off left and right. And it's only due to the WoW clone-esc genre techniques and the required monthly fee to play. THAT'S ALL. none of this people don't request improvements mess....

    most successful launches are met with ignored posts by devs because they let their success go to their heads, so our requests go unheeded

    I submitted improvements to every game i've played, in the ten years i've played mmo's none of them were put into a game. simple ui stuff. nothing gamebreaking.

    I've heard these same arguments before, and I just don't see the evidence there.

    First off, Blizzard did listen to it's fans, and has continued to do so. In fact you can trace many of the problems of the game down to major gripping from the community. Mainly their decisions to add heroics & to tone down the difficulty of most of their content.

    It's not so easy to say that 'games where the community is listened to survived just fine'. SWG is a prime example of a game that tried to listen to what the community wanted, ended up listening to the wrong parts of their community, and tanked as a result.

    As for the sub argument, it's also not that simple. There are sub games that are still going strong, or even gaining subscriptions (EVE), and others that aren't doing well at all (TERA). There are also some F2P games that aren't doing so great (Allods), and some that are doing quite well (Runes of Magic, Perfect World, etc.)

    What you, and many others need to start understanding, is you're part of a crowd. You are one of millions of potential players all screaming about how much they love or hate various aspects of the game. Just because your one piece of advice (even if it seems valid) doesn't get heard, it doesn't mean that developers aren't listening. They have millions of people they have to listen to, and other people may have the exact opposite feedback from yours.

    Every game's different, and every company handles feedback differnetly. Some are a little more proactive about it (Anet), while others tend to do their own thing until problems start to arise (Sony).  There are examples of community feedback being listened to across most of these games, in one form or another. Doesn't mean it's going to be yours.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by aesperus

    First off, paragraphs are your friend bud. Please use them.

    Secondly, I agree with the vast majority of what the OP said. Regardless of what a lot of people try and swear as truth on these forums, we most definitely had 'less' to work with during the 'golden age' of MMOs. Less games, less features, less players.

    This didn't stop some of those games from being amazing, but it's also irresponsible of us, as players, to try and pretend like those games were flawless. Or that we stuck with them for as long as we did because the game was so much better built than everything else at launch.

    Er... but I stuck with DAoC for 6 years exactly because it was built better than just about everything else at launch. I would still be playing it if they hadn't broken their own game. And less to work with? UO, the first true MMO had more features than just about any modern AAA WoW clone, waaaay more features. Just about every pre WoW MMO has more features than modern MMOs.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Oh look, another "blame the gamers and not the games" thread.
  • BossalinieBossalinie Hattiesburg, MSPosts: 683Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Terranah

    If a game is designed well it will endure through the years.  Sadly, many games are not designed well. 

     

    Also, I think there is a fundamental flaw that occurs even before many games begin, and that is mmos are being designed with gameplay in mind, as opposed to escapism.  Games in general tend to have a short lifespan unless they resonate with the fans, and even then newer iterations come out every year or so to replace those games.  Therefore, modern mmos are really not designed to last beyond a year or so.

     

    In contrast, mmos with escapism as a central focus, ie virtual world or sandbox, encourages gameplay by utilizing a more organic design theory that encourages participation more than the sum of it's parts.  Games like UO, DAOC, SWG, and Eve Online are much deeper and richer experience because it taps into something more intriguing than a simple game ever could.

     

    WOW I think resonated for a different reason.  It became the exception to the rule, but so successful a lot of people in the gaming industry thought it was 'the rule'.   And because of that we've seen a lot of emulation in one direction when we should have been going in another direction...at least some of the time.  Half assed attempts at sandboxes don't count, because as a concept it is like a house of cards and if it's implemented without care or deep thought it comes crashing down.

     

    So I would not blame the players.  But I think the designers and developers are to blame, catering to the gamer market instead of the escapist market. 

    The escapist market is not even close to being large enough to consider that the developers made the wrong choice.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by bossalinie
    Originally posted by Terranah

    If a game is designed well it will endure through the years.  Sadly, many games are not designed well. 

     

    Also, I think there is a fundamental flaw that occurs even before many games begin, and that is mmos are being designed with gameplay in mind, as opposed to escapism.  Games in general tend to have a short lifespan unless they resonate with the fans, and even then newer iterations come out every year or so to replace those games.  Therefore, modern mmos are really not designed to last beyond a year or so.

     

    In contrast, mmos with escapism as a central focus, ie virtual world or sandbox, encourages gameplay by utilizing a more organic design theory that encourages participation more than the sum of it's parts.  Games like UO, DAOC, SWG, and Eve Online are much deeper and richer experience because it taps into something more intriguing than a simple game ever could.

     

    WOW I think resonated for a different reason.  It became the exception to the rule, but so successful a lot of people in the gaming industry thought it was 'the rule'.   And because of that we've seen a lot of emulation in one direction when we should have been going in another direction...at least some of the time.  Half assed attempts at sandboxes don't count, because as a concept it is like a house of cards and if it's implemented without care or deep thought it comes crashing down.

     

    So I would not blame the players.  But I think the designers and developers are to blame, catering to the gamer market instead of the escapist market. 

    The escapist market is not even close to being large enough to consider that the developers made the wrong choice.

    Haha what? The 3 million or so people who played MMOs before WoW weren't a big enough market?

    Nowadays, an MMO is lucky if it has like, 100k subs. Like, REALLY fucking lucky. Back in dial up escapist days, MOST MMOs had that many subs. UO, SWG, DAoC, and EQ had 250k +

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    I was spoiled by EQ, the game had so much depth compared to any game after WoW, didnt any other game before WoW so cant say anything about the other golden years mmorpgs.
  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,769Member Uncommon

    Ahhh the early days of 2005 when we were all in short trousers. :)

    Yes MMO's have been a fashion for years. Gaming companies do realise this and play to it. Hype, pre-launch play, open beta, pre-order. But also encouraging gaming social networks and their new love of the last few years, mainstream social networks. Keeping gamers in touch, tweeting purchases, what games they are playing. Just like music, if you are not playing my game with me are you really my friend?

    Gaming has totally become ruled by fashion; WoW is this decades black, no matter what the style, the MMO must be black. We have gaming shows instead of fashion shows, trendy must have accessories like dailies, in game rewards akin to retail loyalty points. And that’s just where we are now, as I always say this is a ongoing process, people who think it stops here are deluded.

  • cooleechang1cooleechang1 Fresno, CAPosts: 20Member
    I would play Tera with you but...ENMASS deleted my account after I went batshit crazy on their online support.  I am not joking.  The game I bought is also gone so no freaken way I'm going to spend more money for the game + sub again.  Had 90 days sub and account got deleted after a month.  I love Tera and K-Tera was one of the best MMO experience I had but ENMASS screw it up.  The game is fine, it's the company who made those retarded changes and the slow updates broken hope we had.   They made the NA version too easy.
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