The lighthearted point was you dont need to know everything about a game before deciding if you want to play it. it kills the excitement. There is oodles of info on what DF was/is, so use that as base expectations and dont spoil it for yourself.
So far some pictures, a short gameplay vid and no beta.
Is it they don't want to scare peeps off by releasing more in game footage ?
The idea is simple, they better hide the state of DF UW till many pay for it ...profit.
I wouldn't buy / resub till people who played it give reviews / post videos.
If that was their goal then why did they let all players get the sequel for free?
There's a difference between hiding information and not paying a bunch of sites to do articles of your game.
It's much more logical to assume they don't want 100k people all logging in on one day and breaking their servers. Soft launch.
I think this is his point. With no official BETA testing etc, what we will get is everything BUT a soft launch. So what I think is that they don´t wanna show off to much, to make some easy bucks on us suckers that do wanna try it. But I´m guessing alot of us will end up very disapointed. I hope I´m wrong. But this act, or none act from AV, has bad news written all over it.
So far some pictures, a short gameplay vid and no beta.
Is it they don't want to scare peeps off by releasing more in game footage ?
The idea is simple, they better hide the state of DF UW till many pay for it ...profit.
I wouldn't buy / resub till people who played it give reviews / post videos.
If that was their goal then why did they let all players get the sequel for free?
There's a difference between hiding information and not paying a bunch of sites to do articles of your game.
It's much more logical to assume they don't want 100k people all logging in on one day and breaking their servers. Soft launch.
I think this is his point. With no official BETA testing etc, what we will get is everything BUT a soft launch. So what I think is that they don´t wanna show off to much, to make some easy bucks on us suckers that do wanna try it. But I´m guessing alot of us will end up very disapointed. I hope I´m wrong. But this act, or none act from AV, has bad news written all over it.
The POINT is, if they wanted to "make a quick buck" then they'd be charging for Unholy Wars. Instead, anyone who ever bought Darkfall gets Unholy Wars for free. So your theory doesn't really pan out at all.
So far some pictures, a short gameplay vid and no beta.
Is it they don't want to scare peeps off by releasing more in game footage ?
The idea is simple, they better hide the state of DF UW till many pay for it ...profit.
I wouldn't buy / resub till people who played it give reviews / post videos.
If that was their goal then why did they let all players get the sequel for free?
There's a difference between hiding information and not paying a bunch of sites to do articles of your game.
It's much more logical to assume they don't want 100k people all logging in on one day and breaking their servers. Soft launch.
I think this is his point. With no official BETA testing etc, what we will get is everything BUT a soft launch. So what I think is that they don´t wanna show off to much, to make some easy bucks on us suckers that do wanna try it. But I´m guessing alot of us will end up very disapointed. I hope I´m wrong. But this act, or none act from AV, has bad news written all over it.
The POINT is, if they wanted to "make a quick buck" then they'd be charging for Unholy Wars. Instead, anyone who ever bought Darkfall gets Unholy Wars for free. So your theory doesn't really pan out at all.
And the game is being tested.
The game is being tested inhouse, by how many? A hundred? Yeah, that´s gonna solve the thousands of players logging in at launch and the problems that comes with that. Stress test my *ss.
It is a quick buck, cause not even nearly as many would buy it if they had to. So having us that got the original, able to test it for a sub fee, is pretty damn smart. Cause they will earn alot more from that, then what they would if they asked people to buy the game. This is my opinion ofc, and is only based on what I´ve seen AV do and not do in the pass.
Virtually every single part of the game is entirely rewritten.
Considering how shallow the game is, there is not much to be "re-written".
Still does not change a point I made. It is not a new game.
But feel free to choke up with their marketing crap...
pretty much the only difference is a quick 'paintjob' most of DF1 with all its problems appears to be there, just beneath the 'very thin' surface. Maybe their hoping that because its a 'fresh' start for players, that people will come back, which some undoubtedly will, but i really doubt it will gain signficant 'presence' DFO only had about 10k players, i don't really see DF;UW improving on that.
Virtually every single part of the game is entirely rewritten.
Considering how shallow the game is, there is not much to be "re-written".
Still does not change a point I made. It is not a new game.
But feel free to choke up with their marketing crap...
In the same thread people accuse AV for not marketing people call this stuff "marketing crap" haha. Wow.
Way to change your tune though. You claimed it was a patch. Now your defense is "its not a new game!"
Bud, if Each Modern Warfare can be called a new game, and if Baldurs Gate 2 could be called a new game over 1, and Fallout 2 can be called a new game over Fallout 1, then so can Unholy Wars be called a new game over Darkfall.
Virtually every single part of the game is entirely rewritten.
Considering how shallow the game is, there is not much to be "re-written".
Still does not change a point I made. It is not a new game.
But feel free to choke up with their marketing crap...
pretty much the only difference is a quick 'paintjob' most of DF1 with all its problems appears to be there, just beneath the 'very thin' surface. Maybe their hoping that because its a 'fresh' start for players, that people will come back, which some undoubtedly will, but i really doubt it will gain signficant 'presence' DFO only had about 10k players, i don't really see DF;UW improving on that.
Care to back up your baseless claims, or are you just a drive by troll like most of the rest?
I'd hardly call rewriting, at the very core, how the game works to be a "paintjob", but call me an idealist. So what "problems" have you gleaned under this new paintjob? The main problems of DF were the "master of all trades" skill system, as well as the time sink it took to master those skills. That is a problem that has been completely and totally solved with the role system.
Or was the problem the limited UI? Because there is a new UI.
Or was the problem the siege system? Because there's a new siege system...
Or was the game too harsh to newbies? Because there's a new player tutorial integrated now.
Or are you just full of hot air?
If WoW is a shallow game than virtually every AAA MMO of the last 8 years has the water content of a raindrop.
Originally posted by Phry Maybe their hoping that because its a 'fresh' start for players, that people will come back, which some undoubtedly will, but i really doubt it will gain signficant 'presence' DFO only had about 10k players, i don't really see DF;UW improving on that.
As one of the previous posters already said:
"It's Aventurine. There is no clever plan."
Aventurine is a company that learns very slowly(if ever) or simply do not care. They will make the game, regardless whether someone actually plays it or not...
Maybe their hoping that because its a 'fresh' start for players, that people will come back, which some undoubtedly will, but i really doubt it will gain signficant 'presence' DFO only had about 10k players, i don't really see DF;UW improving on that.
As one of the previous posters already said:
"It's Aventurine. There is no clever plan."
Aventurine is a company that learns very slowly(if ever) or simply do not care. They will make the game, regardless whether someone actually plays it or not...
They have the courage of their convictions. Which is why they actually made a full loot ffa pvp game with fps aiming when they could have accepted lots of money and turned it into another bland game that would appeal to more people. They learn, they listen, but they also have their opinion and are not afraid to go with it. Personally I think that is a good thing.
I was disappointed with the original DF. It started off a lot of fun, I didn't mind the grind, but it was quite ridiculous. A lot of features promised simply weren't there or didn't work. One of the main disappointments was large scale PvP that would of catapulted this game far above the rest.
Spent a couple hours preparing at a fort, tons of people, excitement everywhere. Then the enemy force arrives after someone had scouted it out and before you know it a boatload of lag gets dumped on you. Most people died in that siege by falling off since we have no idea where we were going at around 4 frames per second. We had asked around after and everyone had the same experience, some marginally better than others.
It's such a great idea, I'm all over FFA full loot, but Darkfall has always been a classic case of great idea, bad execution. My complaint over Darkfall UO is that they should be a bit more vocal. Maybe they don't want a rerun of their first launch, but at this point in time buying the game without any REAL evidence of change is simply a bad idea. No matter the price, I don't hand my CC info out to an unproven product, that's nonsense. It's disheartening to see people so blindly swayed by simple promises. The promises EVERY game dev will make if they have a sequel to a (let's admit it) failed game.
This is why it's hard to listen to gamers completely. We complain, scream, cry, beg, scratch, spit, but then we PAY for the product! Some of you who are so invested in DF UW are some that threw fits over the state of DF1. Your voting ballot is that square plastic in your wallet. Saving money, reviewing products, assessing value, is a priceless skillset - think before you purchase.
PS: I remember the awesome feeling of defeating the Iron Golem the first time when everyone said I'd get dominated. I also remember my first PvP kill against a high ranking Ork. One of my favorite DF memories was us steamrolling a guild and the leader was willing to sell all of the guilds assets (fort and all) just to have his Infernal Armor back.
Like I said, great core idea. REALLY immersive. Just weighed down by issues and bugs. I want UW to be great just as much as you guys do.
Isn't Aventurine Greece company? Big suprise that you should give money for promises, deja vu. And wasn't DF largely financed by goverment? I think that money tap is pretty dry nowdays. Well atleast you get something for your money, unlike the goverments. Unless you are accountant in Greece goverment it doesn't take long to count 1+1 ain't 3.
Originally posted by Falesh They have the courage of their convictions.
It would be courageous if they went with something new and then put their effort into developing of what is working and getting rid of what is not.
Just like CCP did with EVE Online in their early years.
But that is not what they did with DF though. They do have an opinion but ignore past experience, refuse to adapt and still proudly promote flawed concepts.
They do not learn, they do no listen. That isn't courageous, that's stupid.
It would be courageous if they went with something new and then put their effort into developing of what is working and getting rid of what is not.
Just like CCP did with EVE Online in their early years.
But that is not what they did with DF though. They do have an opinion but ignore past experience, refuse to adapt and still proudly promote flawed concepts.
They do not learn, they do no listen. That isn't courageous, that's stupid.
They have gone for a lot of new stuff, like the role/school system which got rid of what was not working, i.e. everyone having the same skill set with no diversity. They are adapting and are changing based on past experienced. If you don't like what they are doing then that is fine, however that is your opinion and it is one that AV clearly disagrees with.
Originally posted by Aquitis I wouldn't bet against Advertine. They have a habbit of providing no information then delivering on their promises.
What you mean like with DF1, where they did the same thing as now/ So little real information and almost no videos right up till release that many claimed the game was vaporware. Dispite that there where many die hard fans like Darthradeon back then that shouted down anyone that had anything negative to say as haters. When DF1 was finally released it had only been in house tested and was full of bugs and hacks. it had one server that players had to take a lottery chance to even get to buy into. The Faq for the game was finally rewritten and the promises of things that never made it into the game were removed. In the end DF1 dispite its Fans wound up not being all it was supposed to be and wound up with its current 2-3k subscriber base.
Your right the game comapany does have a history but not one of delivering on its promises. If its anyhthing like the 7 YEARS! of delayed launch dates on DF1 I very much doubt UW will be out in the next few weeks.
So far some pictures, a short gameplay vid and no beta.
Is it they don't want to scare peeps off by releasing more in game footage ?
The idea is simple, they better hide the state of DF UW till many pay for it ...profit.
I wouldn't buy / resub till people who played it give reviews / post videos.
Yawn... I think many of the 150000+ from DF1 will try it at the cost of one months subsciption. Anyway, they will easily have enough people to choke the two servers as is.
Whaaaat?
I assume you even took your shoes off and were still left wanting?
That's like suggesting that many of the 1.3 million that bought SWTOR will return for the next update or that a new expansion to VG will bring back many of the 700k Vanguard purchasers.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by Aquitis I wouldn't bet against Advertine. They have a habbit of providing no information then delivering on their promises.
What you mean like with DF1, where they did the same thing as now/ So little real information and almost no videos right up till release that many claimed the game was vaporware. Dispite that there where many die hard fans like Darthradeon back then that shouted down anyone that had anything negative to say as haters. When DF1 was finally released it had only been in house tested and was full of bugs and hacks. it had one server that players had to take a lottery chance to even get to buy into. The Faq for the game was finally rewritten and the promises of things that never made it into the game were removed. In the end DF1 dispite its Fans wound up not being all it was supposed to be and wound up with its current 2-3k subscriber base.
Your right the game comapany does have a history but not one of delivering on its promises. If its anyhthing like the 7 YEARS! of delayed launch dates on DF1 I very much doubt UW will be out in the next few weeks.
That highlighted part is the right point there. The pre launch critics of DF1 were vaportrolls. They trolled any discussion and a serious discussing of the game was impossible if every second post was about how the game doesn't exist.
How big is the difference to today's topics and posts is for everyone to see and today we hold factual discusssions (some rare vaporclaims here and there but nothing serious) and i also don't have to defend against vaportrolls. Even i have become a critic myself but based on factual discussion and experience and not the mindless vaportrolling of past days.
I can assure you that if the mindless vaportrolling reappear again i will be the first to put those in place.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
Originally posted by Falesh They have gone for a lot of new stuff, like the role/school system which got rid of what was not working, i.e. everyone having the same skill set with no diversity. They are adapting and are changing based on past experienced. If you don't like what they are doing then that is fine, however that is your opinion and it is one that AV clearly disagrees with.
And they needed 3 years and "completely new game" for that?
Those are just minor stuff, the overall flawed game design of FFA PVP arena did not change for UW.
The difference between EVE and DF is not how they started but what they have become.
CCP developed very complex, massive sandbox. Aventurine did not move an inch with DF.
It is not whether I like or dislike what Aventurine does, I am just asking not to pretend they are doing something they are not.
UW is not a "new game" it is same ole DF because they are very same game.
That's like suggesting that many of the 1.3 million that bought SWTOR will return for the next update or that a new expansion to VG will bring back many of the 700k Vanguard purchasers.
True, although I would be highly surprised if similar numbers did not try the new game within a short space of time of it's release, especially given the case there is next to fa on the market like it. It also demonstrates there is clearly a market there for that kind of product (no matter what some would have you believe).
Now whether the product delivered is going to be good enough to warrant holding onto or even increasing upon that kind of number of subs, well that really remains to be seen.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
They have gone for a lot of new stuff, like the role/school system which got rid of what was not working, i.e. everyone having the same skill set with no diversity. They are adapting and are changing based on past experienced. If you don't like what they are doing then that is fine, however that is your opinion and it is one that AV clearly disagrees with.
And they needed 3 years and "completely new game" for that?
Those are just minor stuff, the overall flawed game design of FFA PVP arena did not change for UW.
The difference between EVE and DF is not how they started but what they have become.
CCP developed very complex, massive sandbox. Aventurine did not move an inch with DF.
It is not whether I like or dislike what Aventurine does, I am just asking not to pretend they are doing something they are not.
UW is not a "new game" it is same ole DF because they are very same game.
They have made fundamental changes to the way the game will play. On top of that the have changed the sound, lighting, graphics and even the world and models. Again, saying that DF:UW is the same old Darkfall is your opinion (and I have no issue with you holding it though I disagree), it is not a fact.
Comments
Totally agree.
If that was their goal then why did they let all players get the sequel for free?
There's a difference between hiding information and not paying a bunch of sites to do articles of your game.
It's much more logical to assume they don't want 100k people all logging in on one day and breaking their servers. Soft launch.
I think this is his point. With no official BETA testing etc, what we will get is everything BUT a soft launch. So what I think is that they don´t wanna show off to much, to make some easy bucks on us suckers that do wanna try it. But I´m guessing alot of us will end up very disapointed. I hope I´m wrong. But this act, or none act from AV, has bad news written all over it.
The POINT is, if they wanted to "make a quick buck" then they'd be charging for Unholy Wars. Instead, anyone who ever bought Darkfall gets Unholy Wars for free. So your theory doesn't really pan out at all.
And the game is being tested.
The game is being tested inhouse, by how many? A hundred? Yeah, that´s gonna solve the thousands of players logging in at launch and the problems that comes with that. Stress test my *ss.
It is a quick buck, cause not even nearly as many would buy it if they had to. So having us that got the original, able to test it for a sub fee, is pretty damn smart. Cause they will earn alot more from that, then what they would if they asked people to buy the game. This is my opinion ofc, and is only based on what I´ve seen AV do and not do in the pass.
They are not hiding anything, just there is nothing to show. It is just a larger patch with knee-jerk marketing of "brand new game".
Oh good, the vapor trolls are still awake.
Large patch, are you kidding me? Do you have any idea how foolish that statement is? Virtually every single part of the game is entirely rewritten.
A PATCH?
Considering how shallow the game is, there is not much to be "re-written".
Still does not change a point I made. It is not a new game.
But feel free to choke up with their marketing crap...
pretty much the only difference is a quick 'paintjob' most of DF1 with all its problems appears to be there, just beneath the 'very thin' surface. Maybe their hoping that because its a 'fresh' start for players, that people will come back, which some undoubtedly will, but i really doubt it will gain signficant 'presence' DFO only had about 10k players, i don't really see DF;UW improving on that.
In the same thread people accuse AV for not marketing people call this stuff "marketing crap" haha. Wow.
Way to change your tune though. You claimed it was a patch. Now your defense is "its not a new game!"
Bud, if Each Modern Warfare can be called a new game, and if Baldurs Gate 2 could be called a new game over 1, and Fallout 2 can be called a new game over Fallout 1, then so can Unholy Wars be called a new game over Darkfall.
Care to back up your baseless claims, or are you just a drive by troll like most of the rest?
I'd hardly call rewriting, at the very core, how the game works to be a "paintjob", but call me an idealist. So what "problems" have you gleaned under this new paintjob? The main problems of DF were the "master of all trades" skill system, as well as the time sink it took to master those skills. That is a problem that has been completely and totally solved with the role system.
Or was the problem the limited UI? Because there is a new UI.
Or was the problem the siege system? Because there's a new siege system...
Or was the game too harsh to newbies? Because there's a new player tutorial integrated now.
Or are you just full of hot air?
If WoW is a shallow game than virtually every AAA MMO of the last 8 years has the water content of a raindrop.
As one of the previous posters already said:
"It's Aventurine. There is no clever plan."
Aventurine is a company that learns very slowly(if ever) or simply do not care. They will make the game, regardless whether someone actually plays it or not...
They have the courage of their convictions. Which is why they actually made a full loot ffa pvp game with fps aiming when they could have accepted lots of money and turned it into another bland game that would appeal to more people. They learn, they listen, but they also have their opinion and are not afraid to go with it. Personally I think that is a good thing.
DanesLaw
DF Dev Tracker
I was disappointed with the original DF. It started off a lot of fun, I didn't mind the grind, but it was quite ridiculous. A lot of features promised simply weren't there or didn't work. One of the main disappointments was large scale PvP that would of catapulted this game far above the rest.
Spent a couple hours preparing at a fort, tons of people, excitement everywhere. Then the enemy force arrives after someone had scouted it out and before you know it a boatload of lag gets dumped on you. Most people died in that siege by falling off since we have no idea where we were going at around 4 frames per second. We had asked around after and everyone had the same experience, some marginally better than others.
It's such a great idea, I'm all over FFA full loot, but Darkfall has always been a classic case of great idea, bad execution. My complaint over Darkfall UO is that they should be a bit more vocal. Maybe they don't want a rerun of their first launch, but at this point in time buying the game without any REAL evidence of change is simply a bad idea. No matter the price, I don't hand my CC info out to an unproven product, that's nonsense. It's disheartening to see people so blindly swayed by simple promises. The promises EVERY game dev will make if they have a sequel to a (let's admit it) failed game.
This is why it's hard to listen to gamers completely. We complain, scream, cry, beg, scratch, spit, but then we PAY for the product! Some of you who are so invested in DF UW are some that threw fits over the state of DF1. Your voting ballot is that square plastic in your wallet. Saving money, reviewing products, assessing value, is a priceless skillset - think before you purchase.
PS: I remember the awesome feeling of defeating the Iron Golem the first time when everyone said I'd get dominated. I also remember my first PvP kill against a high ranking Ork. One of my favorite DF memories was us steamrolling a guild and the leader was willing to sell all of the guilds assets (fort and all) just to have his Infernal Armor back.
Like I said, great core idea. REALLY immersive. Just weighed down by issues and bugs. I want UW to be great just as much as you guys do.
It would be courageous if they went with something new and then put their effort into developing of what is working and getting rid of what is not.
Just like CCP did with EVE Online in their early years.
But that is not what they did with DF though. They do have an opinion but ignore past experience, refuse to adapt and still proudly promote flawed concepts.
They do not learn, they do no listen. That isn't courageous, that's stupid.
answer to your question is simple:
Av can't handle 200k of people..
They have gone for a lot of new stuff, like the role/school system which got rid of what was not working, i.e. everyone having the same skill set with no diversity. They are adapting and are changing based on past experienced. If you don't like what they are doing then that is fine, however that is your opinion and it is one that AV clearly disagrees with.
DanesLaw
DF Dev Tracker
What you mean like with DF1, where they did the same thing as now/ So little real information and almost no videos right up till release that many claimed the game was vaporware. Dispite that there where many die hard fans like Darthradeon back then that shouted down anyone that had anything negative to say as haters. When DF1 was finally released it had only been in house tested and was full of bugs and hacks. it had one server that players had to take a lottery chance to even get to buy into. The Faq for the game was finally rewritten and the promises of things that never made it into the game were removed. In the end DF1 dispite its Fans wound up not being all it was supposed to be and wound up with its current 2-3k subscriber base.
Your right the game comapany does have a history but not one of delivering on its promises. If its anyhthing like the 7 YEARS! of delayed launch dates on DF1 I very much doubt UW will be out in the next few weeks.
That's like suggesting that many of the 1.3 million that bought SWTOR will return for the next update or that a new expansion to VG will bring back many of the 700k Vanguard purchasers.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
That highlighted part is the right point there. The pre launch critics of DF1 were vaportrolls. They trolled any discussion and a serious discussing of the game was impossible if every second post was about how the game doesn't exist.
How big is the difference to today's topics and posts is for everyone to see and today we hold factual discusssions (some rare vaporclaims here and there but nothing serious) and i also don't have to defend against vaportrolls. Even i have become a critic myself but based on factual discussion and experience and not the mindless vaportrolling of past days.
I can assure you that if the mindless vaportrolling reappear again i will be the first to put those in place.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
And they needed 3 years and "completely new game" for that?
Those are just minor stuff, the overall flawed game design of FFA PVP arena did not change for UW.
The difference between EVE and DF is not how they started but what they have become.
CCP developed very complex, massive sandbox. Aventurine did not move an inch with DF.
It is not whether I like or dislike what Aventurine does, I am just asking not to pretend they are doing something they are not.
UW is not a "new game" it is same ole DF because they are very same game.
True, although I would be highly surprised if similar numbers did not try the new game within a short space of time of it's release, especially given the case there is next to fa on the market like it. It also demonstrates there is clearly a market there for that kind of product (no matter what some would have you believe).
Now whether the product delivered is going to be good enough to warrant holding onto or even increasing upon that kind of number of subs, well that really remains to be seen.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
They have made fundamental changes to the way the game will play. On top of that the have changed the sound, lighting, graphics and even the world and models. Again, saying that DF:UW is the same old Darkfall is your opinion (and I have no issue with you holding it though I disagree), it is not a fact.
DanesLaw
DF Dev Tracker