Is it? You refuse to acknowlege the fact that even every fan of GW2 has said from day one? GW2 isn't for everyone? Who would fit in that group? I'll give you some examples. The people who like to tank, raid, heal, chace the carrot. Progrssion PVPers. Need I go on? Nothing presumtuous. You just don't want to admit it.
I think maybe there's some flexibility within those catagories. If a game is good enough, it can draw people who normally don't like the sort of game it is. Especially when you're talking about such niche subcatagories. It's not even like we're talking FPS vs RPG.. but just different sorts of MMOers, in a genre where a lot of us are just craving a good solid game that isn't a half-baked mess, for a change.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I have a feeling I am never going to find a single game I am going to play for months and years on end without breaks.
Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm just like the rest. I will probably end up like the rest bouncing from game to game, new release to new release like an addict chasing the next fix.
The dream of "the game to stick with" is gone for me.
I've hit MMORPG rock bottom.
This is BadSpock, signing off...
I cant tell what would please you, but Im lf sandboxes rather than themeparks with the way these modern mmos are acting. Come Darkfall
Is it? You refuse to acknowlege the fact that even every fan of GW2 has said from day one? GW2 isn't for everyone? Who would fit in that group? I'll give you some examples. The people who like to tank, raid, heal, chace the carrot. Progrssion PVPers. Need I go on? Nothing presumtuous. You just don't want to admit it.
I think maybe there's some flexibility within those catagories. If a game is good enough, it can draw people who normally don't like the sort of game it is. Especially when you're talking about such niche subcatagories. It's not even like we're talking FPS vs RPG.. but just different sorts of MMOers, in a genre where a lot of us are just craving a good solid game that isn't a half-baked mess, for a change.
I'm not disputing that. What I am saying is that there are people who want to raid heal (As one example). That is one group that is not going to find a place in GW2. While it's possiblethe individual player who was a raid healer in WoW may find a role in the GW2 they like, it won't be raid healing. And in that example we are talking about the individual. I am talking about a group of gamers who play MMORPGs to raid heal. This is a group of gamers that is part of the WOW playerbase that GW2 marketing did go after (sine they went after WoW as a whole game) that will find no place in GW2. Individual exceptions to this will exist but that ignores the rest of the group who wish to be raid healers. If the raid healer plays GW2 and loves the game and becomes a Guardian and finds their new game for years and years, that's great, but they are no longer part of the raid healer group. There will still be a raid healer group in WoW. There will always be members of that group. GW2 is not for them.
This whole arguement is because I said GW2 was marketed to people it wasn't designed to appeal to. And that not everyone who plays WoW is going to like GW2. Since that statement, the argument has been re paraphrased and the context changed to twist my sttemnt to find a small example where I am wrong. But in doing that it ignores the rest who my statement does apply to. And those are who I am talking about.
I feel the same as well, got a gaurdian to 40, and a warrior to 40, played spvp, wvw, dungeons, explored, done it all.
It is missing the lore as the first guild wars had it, the massive, long, difficult missions and quests. Coop missions, competative missions, mission pvp, spvp, gvg, guild halls.
I donno, but GW2 does feel very "soul less" and stripped of its 'mmo' as someone said earlier. Oh well, hopefully it creates a second wind in all of us lol
Originally posted by Arskaaa "when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
Is it? You refuse to acknowlege the fact that even every fan of GW2 has said from day one? GW2 isn't for everyone? Who would fit in that group? I'll give you some examples. The people who like to tank, raid, heal, chace the carrot. Progrssion PVPers. Need I go on? Nothing presumtuous. You just don't want to admit it.
I think maybe there's some flexibility within those catagories. If a game is good enough, it can draw people who normally don't like the sort of game it is. Especially when you're talking about such niche subcatagories. It's not even like we're talking FPS vs RPG.. but just different sorts of MMOers, in a genre where a lot of us are just craving a good solid game that isn't a half-baked mess, for a change.
I'm not disputing that. What I am saying is that there are people who want to raid heal (As one example). That is one group that is not going to find a place in GW2. While it's possiblethe individual player who was a raid healer in WoW may find a role in the GW2 they like, it won't be raid healing. And in that example we are talking about the individual. I am talking about a group of gamers who play MMORPGs to raid heal. This is a group of gamers that is part of the WOW playerbase that GW2 marketing did go after (sine they went after WoW as a whole game) that will find no place in GW2. Individual exceptions to this will exist but that ignores the rest of the group who wish to be raid healers. If the raid healer plays GW2 and loves the game and becomes a Guardian and finds their new game for years and years, that's great, but they are no longer part of the raid healer group. There will still be a raid healer group in WoW. There will always be members of that group. GW2 is not for them.
This whole arguement is because I said GW2 was marketed to people it wasn't designed to appeal to. And that not everyone who plays WoW is going to like GW2. Since that statement, the argument has been re paraphrased and the context changed to twist my sttemnt to find a small example where I am wrong. But in doing that it ignores the rest who my statement does apply to. And those are who I am talking about.
I'm not arguing that those who want to play strictly trinity-tank based, progression raid looting mmos will like GW2. Even if they do, they probably wouldn't play this type of game as their primary. Where I disagree is painting an entire mmo population with that broad of a generalization. You can't make an assumption like that just because people play a certain game.
Marketing to pretty much any mmo, especially themeparks seems very appropriate and not misleading at all. Nowhere did ANet say come here for a better "raid or die" experience. They said come here for a better themepark experience. Many of us believe they deliver that.
I love healing, support, and CC roles. I have a lot of fun doing that in GW2 even though it's not how I do it in RIFT.
I do see your point. It's not wrong either but I have to ask. GW2 is a decent game. But it's not earth shattering. So what on earth gaave them the cajones to believe that what they were offering was truly good enough to make a whole playerbase want to give up their playstyle and make a change? (That "paradigm shift" buzz phrase that was tossed around these boards last year) If they honestly believed their game was really that good. Then it means the developers isolated themselves from everyone but their own fanbois who did nothing but pump sunshine up ANET's @$$es the whole time.
Originally posted by GeezerGamer I do see your point. It's not wrong either but I have to ask. GW2 is a decent game. But it's not earth shattering. So what on earth gaave them the cajones to believe that what they were offering was truly good enough to make a whole playerbase want to give up their playstyle and make a change? (That "paradigm shift" buzz phrase that was tossed around these boards last year) If they honestly believed their game was really that good. Then it means the developers isolated themselves from everyone but their own fanbois who did nothing but pump sunshine up ANET's @$$es the whole time.
It's likely that testers where GW fans, consequently I'm a GW fan and the game works well for me. The progress to 80 I think is good enough to entice and keep happy gamers with no previous experience of GW, the problem comes with 'end game'.
We all knew what to expect prior to buying it, GW2 was getting rid of traditional endgame, the whole game was end game. Problem is a paradigm shift is needed, but the game doesn't supply that, it expects it of its players. Players from other MMO's still had their expectations and wants, they are either prepared to shift around to Anets philosophy or leave. I think Orr hasn't helped either, too much of the same mob, high respawns and events that have just become a karma grind, I do trust though that Anet have been watching whats happening at endgame and how players are treating it and will come up with solutions, we know endgame is what they are focusing on right now.
If content arrives to appease players gripes then it's really easy to jump back in, no sub helps with that. Going to be interesting to see what they do.
Me, I'm quite happily leveling alts and I'm still discovering content, there's also new stuff in there on top of that which came with the halloween patch, but you see I played GW a lot, it's what I'm used to and enjoy
I do see your point. It's not wrong either but I have to ask. GW2 is a decent game. But it's not earth shattering. So what on earth gaave them the cajones to believe that what they were offering was truly good enough to make a whole playerbase want to give up their playstyle and make a change? (That "paradigm shift" buzz phrase that was tossed around these boards last year) If they honestly believed their game was really that good. Then it means the developers isolated themselves from everyone but their own fanbois who did nothing but pump sunshine up ANET's @$$es the whole time.
You assuming the only way to be bigger than WoW is going after WoW player base.
Clearly there are loads MMORPG players that prefer the playstyle present in many of the MMORPGs already in the market.
But there are many video game players that presented with WoW, EQ, EVE, UO and others would not touch them with a pole saying it is for no lifers.
Well it is just my interpretation of stuff like "If you love MMOs you want to check GW2 and if you hate MMOs you will REALLY want to check out GW2" that their targets are players that are already playing MMOs but dislike forced grind, froced grouping and some of the mechanics present in the genre (I'm from this group) and players that might wish to play a MMO but are turned off by the formula time=power/better rewards and payment model.
Of course the "Anet Manifesto" created a lot of HYPE and HATE. No one likes to hear that what they have invested thousands of hours and dollars in is a waste of time, it is boring and what not.
That is where most of the hate is coming from, but it doesn't really matter - it generated a lot of buzzword and the players/bloggers offended by the manifesto aren't the game target, but at least they are talking about it.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I think I really am burned out on MMOs in general.
12+ years is a long, long time.
None of my friends/family really play anymore.
All the people I made such great connections with in previous guilds are long gone from my life.
So I end up playing MMOs more like single player games that happen to be online. I PUG when I need to, find a guild to find PUGs, and just kind of focus on my own thing - but that real social aspect I just haven't had in... years.
I remember at my high-point in WoW gaming, I had a half dozen or so guildies I would talk to IRL outside of the game on a regular basis, and at least 10-20 more I developed a friendship with in game and of course voice chat.
I fondly remember staying up another 2-3 hours past the end of a raid night just chatting with folks in Vent.
Before WoW and the group of players I found there, I had a group of IRL friends I played SWG with for a bit, and before that a whole crew of folks in UO.
That was actually my first exposure to MMORPGs, going to a friends house in like 1999 and playing Ultima Online on his computer or watching him play. I didn't buy the game and start my own account until the Renaissance expansion came out in 2000.
My friends and family that still game are primarily on the console now - I've got a few PC gaming friends on Steam but haven't played anything w/ them since BF3 and some TOR.
So no, I don't think the genre has changes as much as I have changed.
GW2 is a great game, a fantastic MMO really - but w/o the social aspects it just doesn't do anything for me anymore, and I'm too old/busy/tired to make new friends.
I guess you get to a point where you have so much going in IRL the thought of leading a second life online is just impossible anymore - which IMO is what it takes to really immerse yourself into one of these worlds.
So I'm definitely an "hour or two here and there" MMO player now.
Kind of thinking on going back to WoW just because it's SO easy to reach my personal goals using LFG dungeon finder, LFR Raid Finder, and the BG system. And it fits my schedule.
I'll still be checking out GW2 from time to time, for sure, and maybe in a few major patches I'll find enough to love to make GW2 my casual couple hour a week MMO.
But right now the visuals are about the only thing I really, really love about GW2 (especially after playing MoP a bit this weekend- best looking WoW expansion yet but damn, WoW is still just so dated visually.)
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Really no surprises here as we continue to see more and more of these threads.. GW2 is just not avery good MMO if it wasnt F2P it would have a helluva lot less people playing it right now.. But time will fix that...
So many people just follow the hype train like freakin sheep only to be dissapointed over and over... Well there is always ToR to go back to ............ errrrr nm ..........
Really no surprises here as we continue to see more and more of these threads.. GW2 is just not avery good MMO if it wasnt F2P it would have a helluva lot less people playing it right now.. But time will fix that...
So many people just follow the hype train like freakin sheep only to be dissapointed over and over... Well there is always ToR to go back to ............ errrrr nm ..........
I'm not looking for the "next great MMO" anymore. I'm giving up.
I'm looking for a game I can play in a 2-3 hour block 2-3 times a week.
Actually I'm just looking for a game to last me another 8 days until Halo 4 releases.
And after that probably bounce between Halo 4 and CoD Black Ops 2 when that comes out a week later.
I've got 8 more days free trial of WoW: MoP so that'll get me to the 6th.
So Spock your problem is that you don't have time to socialize or feel too old to make new friends? but i don't see how is that GW2's fault. If that is your main problem and reason you stopped playing i think the long OP was completely irrelevant isn't it?
I'm not looking for the "next great MMO" anymore. I'm giving up.
I'm looking for a game I can play in a 2-3 hour block 2-3 times a week.
Actually I'm just looking for a game to last me another 8 days until Halo 4 releases.
And after that probably bounce between Halo 4 and CoD Black Ops 2 when that comes out a week later.
I've got 8 more days free trial of WoW: MoP so that'll get me to the 6th.
try xcom if you enjoy turn based games.. game is really fun:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by lifeordinary So Spock your problem is that you don't have time to socialize or feel too old to make new friends? but i don't see how is that GW2's fault. If that is your main problem and reason you stopped playing i think the long OP was completely irrelevant isn't it?
Yes and no.
I know the problems I found with the game are in part due to my own issues with gaming and MMO gaming in general.
Yet issues like Orr sucking and the big meta-event bosses sucking are actual issues w/ the game that just compound my own disinterest.
Lots of what I said is of course subjective, but it'd be hard to hear anyone justify what Orr has become and what these mega-events are like.
I think GW2 is a really great MMO with some really great ideas that if you are able to fully immerse yourself in would be / is a great, great MMO.
But for someone like me who has limited time, attention span, and is generally burned out - I just need a quick fix and the carrot chasing LFG/insant action etc. of other games is just more appealing to me at this point.
You've made it further than I did. I only managed to get to level 60, warrior, before I said to hell with it, and went back to the Land of the Panda. I have my warrior to 90, and a panda monk to 35. But I'm not certain I'm going to take it to 90. This would be my 10th time through this content. Its an interesting class, but I have others that do different things I'm interested in better.
Right now I'm playing RaiderZ. Its quite the entertaining game, and I actually enjoy the active combat system.
Guild wars 2 is very polished, but I really do not care for the combat system. It seems way too limited, and I agree, that I spend way too much time waiting for cool downs, and none of the abilities really stand out. Over all, I suspect its main focus of exploration and achivement suits certain people. Many others are left asking "Wheres the beef?"...
Originally posted by lifeordinary So Spock your problem is that you don't have time to socialize or feel too old to make new friends? but i don't see how is that GW2's fault. If that is your main problem and reason you stopped playing i think the long OP was completely irrelevant isn't it?
Yes and no.
I know the problems I found with the game are in part due to my own issues with gaming and MMO gaming in general.
Yet issues like Orr sucking and the big meta-event bosses sucking are actual issues w/ the game that just compound my own disinterest.
Lots of what I said is of course subjective, but it'd be hard to hear anyone justify what Orr has become and what these mega-events are like.
I think GW2 is a really great MMO with some really great ideas that if you are able to fully immerse yourself in would be / is a great, great MMO.
But for someone like me who has limited time, attention span, and is generally burned out - I just need a quick fix and the carrot chasing LFG/insant action etc. of other games is just more appealing to me at this point.
Fair enough but after reading your post i felt that your main problem is 'inablity to socialize'.
I think it's time people realize someting, hopefully one day threads like these will stop popping up every second!
My best friend started playing GW2 with me, I think he was lvl 40ish when he said that
"This is still not the MMO I'm looking for, there's a lot of things that I was hoping for that don't exist... bla bla bla"
Now I will give to you the same reply I gave him, and it applies to everyone that keeps complaining and saying that "It's GW2 fault that I quit playing it"
It is not GW2 fault if you started playing it and eventually quit and went back to MMO X, it's your fault for being addicted to MMO X and trying to cure your addiction with a new one, unfortunately for you GW2 wasn't the drug you were looking for... so you went back to the familiar one.
Most people go back because it's "familiar" to them, either due to friends/guildies or because they rather be mindlessly bored in something they already know inside and out than in something new.
GW2 isn't that different from other major MMOs in the market, so if you're not enjoying it and go back to whatever other major MMO you were playing before then it's exactly the case I just described, you're just another zombie... nothing wrong with it, just don't put the blame on GW2 for not being the cure for your illness. It never even promised that to begin with.
It really pisses me off this constant, "Oh it's just another MMO... I'll wait for the next one, that will be a true sandbox experience, that's what I want"
THERE WILL NEVER BE SUCH AN MMO!.... now give yourselves time for this information to sink in.
Human beings are never satisfied, never.... it's part of the human condition. So by association, you will never find the MMO that has everything you want... it will never exist. Don't bother trying to argue that it does, because it doesn't.
What does exist is some MMO that you accept even with the flaws you very well know it has, because the pros outweight the cons. And that's perfectly fine!!! Just don't come here and preach that GW2 is a disapointment, and that it failed, and that it's not very good. Simply isn't true, it just doesn't fit your impossible expectations.
It is everyone's fault that MMOs are underperforming, because MMO gamers are the worst kind of gamers... whiny and self-entitled, most don't even understand what a good MMO is! They just need a fix of something for a while and then move on to the new drug, complain that it's not like the old drug and then go back to the old one... and this cycle repeats ad nauseum.
Don't like it... don't play it, it couldn't be farther from the truth saying something isn't good just because you're not capable of handling it.
Originally posted by lifeordinary So Spock your problem is that you don't have time to socialize or feel too old to make new friends? but i don't see how is that GW2's fault. If that is your main problem and reason you stopped playing i think the long OP was completely irrelevant isn't it?
Yes and no.
I know the problems I found with the game are in part due to my own issues with gaming and MMO gaming in general.
Yet issues like Orr sucking and the big meta-event bosses sucking are actual issues w/ the game that just compound my own disinterest.
Lots of what I said is of course subjective, but it'd be hard to hear anyone justify what Orr has become and what these mega-events are like.
I think GW2 is a really great MMO with some really great ideas that if you are able to fully immerse yourself in would be / is a great, great MMO.
But for someone like me who has limited time, attention span, and is generally burned out - I just need a quick fix and the carrot chasing LFG/insant action etc. of other games is just more appealing to me at this point.
Fair enough but after reading your post i felt that your main problem is 'inablity to socialize'.
That's probably true.
I just don't have the time, patience, and dedication to really "immerse" myself in a MMO anymore - and part of that immersion to me (a major part) is the socialization.
No matter what game it is, EvE, WoW, TOR, GW2...
I know in a lot of ways it is me, not the games. I accept that.
And I've said, GW2 is a great game - best to be released since WoW 2004. Without a doubt in my mind.
Does it have issues? Yes - and I think I highlighted some of them in my OP. But name a MMO that doesn't have issues?
I'll be playing Xbox shooters with my friends/family for social gaming time.
For personal gaming time, I'll probably play something I can hop in and have some fun and make some progress - chasing carrots.
Its not for everyone, especially those who want the "carrot on a stick". The problem is that is not the way to handle things now as with a carrot on a stick you have to have gated content and with gated content you will not cater to the vast majority of players. As someone who is in the vast majority I find myself quite enthralled by the game still. I actually thought the statistical progression of games like WoW was kind of a joke compared to cosmetic progression. Especially lately when MMO themeparks have made content last longer by adding "hard modes" that simply make the fight have maybe one new mechanic that barely changes the fight and higher damage/hp requirements. You pretty much gear up and triviliaze that "hard mode" content and you end up in the same situation as you would have had cosmetic progression. The key difference here is that you can always play with your friends and won't leave people behind as well as it keeping the entire game relevant all the time.
I think it's time people realize someting, hopefully one day threads like these will stop popping up every second!
My best friend started playing GW2 with me, I think he was lvl 40ish when he said that
"This is still not the MMO I'm looking for, there's a lot of things that I was hoping for that don't exist... bla bla bla"
Now I will give to you the same reply I gave him, and it applies to everyone that keeps complaining and saying that "It's GW2 fault that I quit playing it"
It is not GW2 fault if you started playing it and eventually quit and went back to MMO X, it's your fault for being addicted to MMO X and trying to cure your addiction with a new one, unfortunately for you GW2 wasn't the drug you were looking for... so you went back to the familiar one.
Most people go back because it's "familiar" to them, either due to friends/guildies or because they rather be mindlessly bored in something they already know inside and out than in something new.
GW2 isn't that different from other major MMOs in the market, so if you're not enjoying it and go back to whatever other major MMO you were playing before then it's exactly the case I just described, you're just another zombie... nothing wrong with it, just don't put the blame on GW2 for not being the cure for your illness. It never even promised that to begin with.
It really pisses me off this constant, "Oh it's just another MMO... I'll wait for the next one, that will be a true sandbox experience, that's what I want"
THERE WILL NEVER BE SUCH AN MMO!.... now give yourselves time for this information to sink in.
Human beings are never satisfied, never.... it's part of the human condition. So by association, you will never find the MMO that has everything you want... it will never exist. Don't bother trying to argue that it does, because it doesn't.
What does exist is some MMO that you accept even with the flaws you very well know it has, because the pros outweight the cons. And that's perfectly fine!!! Just don't come here and preach that GW2 is a disapointment, and that it failed, and that it's not very good. Simply isn't true, it just doesn't fit your impossible expectations.
It is everyone's fault that MMOs are underperforming, because MMO gamers are the worst kind of gamers... whiny and self-entitled, most don't even understand what a good MMO is! They just need a fix of something for a while and then move on to the new drug, complain that it's not like the old drug and then go back to the old one... and this cycle repeats ad nauseum.
Don't like it... don't play it, it couldn't be farther from the truth saying something isn't good just because you're not capable of handling it.
I dont think anyone (or at least myself) is blaming GW2. I cant blame a product for my decisions. We are just stating what the game was lacking that made us (at least me) loose interest. No different than people who state why they absolutely love the game (but there is no opposition against that as there is here).
People play games for different reasons. Some developers cater to those more than others. When a game doesnt present what you are looking for (but was expected) they will stop playing the game. It doesn't make someone a "zombie" Why resort to name calling and labelling? Just because you like the game and someone else doesn't?
Half of you on here need a hug. You get too sensitive over an opinion and attack it as opposed to just having a discusion.
But yeah I know, this is MMORPG... But I can still dream ;-)
I think it's time people realize someting, hopefully one day threads like these will stop popping up every second!
My best friend started playing GW2 with me, I think he was lvl 40ish when he said that
"This is still not the MMO I'm looking for, there's a lot of things that I was hoping for that don't exist... bla bla bla"
Now I will give to you the same reply I gave him, and it applies to everyone that keeps complaining and saying that "It's GW2 fault that I quit playing it"
It is not GW2 fault if you started playing it and eventually quit and went back to MMO X, it's your fault for being addicted to MMO X and trying to cure your addiction with a new one, unfortunately for you GW2 wasn't the drug you were looking for... so you went back to the familiar one.
Most people go back because it's "familiar" to them, either due to friends/guildies or because they rather be mindlessly bored in something they already know inside and out than in something new.
GW2 isn't that different from other major MMOs in the market, so if you're not enjoying it and go back to whatever other major MMO you were playing before then it's exactly the case I just described, you're just another zombie... nothing wrong with it, just don't put the blame on GW2 for not being the cure for your illness. It never even promised that to begin with.
It really pisses me off this constant, "Oh it's just another MMO... I'll wait for the next one, that will be a true sandbox experience, that's what I want"
THERE WILL NEVER BE SUCH AN MMO!.... now give yourselves time for this information to sink in.
Human beings are never satisfied, never.... it's part of the human condition. So by association, you will never find the MMO that has everything you want... it will never exist. Don't bother trying to argue that it does, because it doesn't.
What does exist is some MMO that you accept even with the flaws you very well know it has, because the pros outweight the cons. And that's perfectly fine!!! Just don't come here and preach that GW2 is a disapointment, and that it failed, and that it's not very good. Simply isn't true, it just doesn't fit your impossible expectations.
It is everyone's fault that MMOs are underperforming, because MMO gamers are the worst kind of gamers... whiny and self-entitled, most don't even understand what a good MMO is! They just need a fix of something for a while and then move on to the new drug, complain that it's not like the old drug and then go back to the old one... and this cycle repeats ad nauseum.
Don't like it... don't play it, it couldn't be farther from the truth saying something isn't good just because you're not capable of handling it.
I dont think anyone (or at least myself) is blaming GW2. I cant blame a product for my decisions. We are just stating what the game was lacking that made us (at least me) loose interest. No different than people who state why they absolutely love the game (but there is no opposition against that as there is here).
People play games for different reasons. Some developers cater to those more than others. When a game doesnt present what you are looking for (but was expected) they will stop playing the game. It doesn't make someone a "zombie" Why resort to name calling and labelling? Just because you like the game and someone else doesn't?
Half of you on here need a hug. You get too sensitive over an opinion and attack it as opposed to just having a discusion.
But yeah I know, this is MMORPG... But I can still dream ;-)
Don't you find it at least a little bit hypocritical that a lot of (and it really is a lot of) people who start "I quit" threads usually end up going back to an MMO that boiled down to the basics is exactly the same as the one they're quitting, just with a different name and scenario?
It's just a matter of confort, what our mind perceives as it, by returning to something that a) Has people that we already know, b) Doesn't offer us any resistance, meaning we already know all the mechanics and such.
Zombies nowadays are cool, so it wasn't name calling ehehe. Just a joke to lighen up...
Well, now more seriously, I was a "slave" to an MMO for years and years, and I did all the same "I'll quit" speeches just to find myself returning to it because, hey... I enjoyed it for so many time, why not keep enjoying it. But the truth is most people are "zombified" by this, because they're not actually enjoying themselves anymore... they just need something so that they won't quit MMO'ing cold turkey.
This is not a crazy theory, there is extensive research into the field of gaming, social networking, etc etc that supports that we, humans, have a tendency to immerse ourselves too much in fantasy worlds.
It is my honest belief that a lot of gamers (like everyone else in different areas of life) don't really know what they want... they just know they need something.
Perfect post, BadSpock! I agree with every single point, from GW2's good ideas but poor sense of accomplishment and fun to the general malaise about MMOs in general.
I thought GW2 was going to finally provide a game "home" after so many years of disappointments. I really wanted it to, and I was cautiously optomistic while playing through the PvE content.
Sadly, it all became quickly pointless. PvE leads nowhere. Veteran and champion level enemies with thousands or millions of extra health that yield nothing are tedious enough by themselves to make me avoid the game in disgust. sPvP is always one-sided or it teleports you to the losing team with no hope of recovery. And WvW, which I had hoped would be an epic ongoing tactical battle of awesomeness, turned out to be a stunning disappointment of zergishness that throws character planning and strategy in the garbage.
I wish I had another game to recommend and raise your spirits, BadSpock, but I'm in the same boat you are. (Well, technically not, since I'm not on board the IIS Enterprise.) My only recourse at the moment is Nefflix. If you learn of any promising new games, please let me know!
Comments
I think maybe there's some flexibility within those catagories. If a game is good enough, it can draw people who normally don't like the sort of game it is. Especially when you're talking about such niche subcatagories. It's not even like we're talking FPS vs RPG.. but just different sorts of MMOers, in a genre where a lot of us are just craving a good solid game that isn't a half-baked mess, for a change.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Maybe it's just me. Maybe I'm just like the rest. I will probably end up like the rest bouncing from game to game, new release to new release like an addict chasing the next fix.
The dream of "the game to stick with" is gone for me.
I've hit MMORPG rock bottom.
This is BadSpock, signing off...
I cant tell what would please you, but Im lf sandboxes rather than themeparks with the way these modern mmos are acting. Come DarkfallI'm not disputing that. What I am saying is that there are people who want to raid heal (As one example). That is one group that is not going to find a place in GW2. While it's possiblethe individual player who was a raid healer in WoW may find a role in the GW2 they like, it won't be raid healing. And in that example we are talking about the individual. I am talking about a group of gamers who play MMORPGs to raid heal. This is a group of gamers that is part of the WOW playerbase that GW2 marketing did go after (sine they went after WoW as a whole game) that will find no place in GW2. Individual exceptions to this will exist but that ignores the rest of the group who wish to be raid healers. If the raid healer plays GW2 and loves the game and becomes a Guardian and finds their new game for years and years, that's great, but they are no longer part of the raid healer group. There will still be a raid healer group in WoW. There will always be members of that group. GW2 is not for them.
This whole arguement is because I said GW2 was marketed to people it wasn't designed to appeal to. And that not everyone who plays WoW is going to like GW2. Since that statement, the argument has been re paraphrased and the context changed to twist my sttemnt to find a small example where I am wrong. But in doing that it ignores the rest who my statement does apply to. And those are who I am talking about.
I feel the same as well, got a gaurdian to 40, and a warrior to 40, played spvp, wvw, dungeons, explored, done it all.
It is missing the lore as the first guild wars had it, the massive, long, difficult missions and quests. Coop missions, competative missions, mission pvp, spvp, gvg, guild halls.
I donno, but GW2 does feel very "soul less" and stripped of its 'mmo' as someone said earlier. Oh well, hopefully it creates a second wind in all of us lol
Originally posted by Arskaaa
"when players learned tacticks in dungeon/raids, its bread".
I do see your point. It's not wrong either but I have to ask. GW2 is a decent game. But it's not earth shattering. So what on earth gaave them the cajones to believe that what they were offering was truly good enough to make a whole playerbase want to give up their playstyle and make a change? (That "paradigm shift" buzz phrase that was tossed around these boards last year) If they honestly believed their game was really that good. Then it means the developers isolated themselves from everyone but their own fanbois who did nothing but pump sunshine up ANET's @$$es the whole time.
We all knew what to expect prior to buying it, GW2 was getting rid of traditional endgame, the whole game was end game. Problem is a paradigm shift is needed, but the game doesn't supply that, it expects it of its players. Players from other MMO's still had their expectations and wants, they are either prepared to shift around to Anets philosophy or leave. I think Orr hasn't helped either, too much of the same mob, high respawns and events that have just become a karma grind, I do trust though that Anet have been watching whats happening at endgame and how players are treating it and will come up with solutions, we know endgame is what they are focusing on right now.
If content arrives to appease players gripes then it's really easy to jump back in, no sub helps with that. Going to be interesting to see what they do.
Me, I'm quite happily leveling alts and I'm still discovering content, there's also new stuff in there on top of that which came with the halloween patch, but you see I played GW a lot, it's what I'm used to and enjoy
You assuming the only way to be bigger than WoW is going after WoW player base.
Clearly there are loads MMORPG players that prefer the playstyle present in many of the MMORPGs already in the market.
But there are many video game players that presented with WoW, EQ, EVE, UO and others would not touch them with a pole saying it is for no lifers.
Well it is just my interpretation of stuff like "If you love MMOs you want to check GW2 and if you hate MMOs you will REALLY want to check out GW2" that their targets are players that are already playing MMOs but dislike forced grind, froced grouping and some of the mechanics present in the genre (I'm from this group) and players that might wish to play a MMO but are turned off by the formula time=power/better rewards and payment model.
Of course the "Anet Manifesto" created a lot of HYPE and HATE. No one likes to hear that what they have invested thousands of hours and dollars in is a waste of time, it is boring and what not.
That is where most of the hate is coming from, but it doesn't really matter - it generated a lot of buzzword and the players/bloggers offended by the manifesto aren't the game target, but at least they are talking about it.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
I think I really am burned out on MMOs in general.
12+ years is a long, long time.
None of my friends/family really play anymore.
All the people I made such great connections with in previous guilds are long gone from my life.
So I end up playing MMOs more like single player games that happen to be online. I PUG when I need to, find a guild to find PUGs, and just kind of focus on my own thing - but that real social aspect I just haven't had in... years.
I remember at my high-point in WoW gaming, I had a half dozen or so guildies I would talk to IRL outside of the game on a regular basis, and at least 10-20 more I developed a friendship with in game and of course voice chat.
I fondly remember staying up another 2-3 hours past the end of a raid night just chatting with folks in Vent.
Before WoW and the group of players I found there, I had a group of IRL friends I played SWG with for a bit, and before that a whole crew of folks in UO.
That was actually my first exposure to MMORPGs, going to a friends house in like 1999 and playing Ultima Online on his computer or watching him play. I didn't buy the game and start my own account until the Renaissance expansion came out in 2000.
My friends and family that still game are primarily on the console now - I've got a few PC gaming friends on Steam but haven't played anything w/ them since BF3 and some TOR.
So no, I don't think the genre has changes as much as I have changed.
GW2 is a great game, a fantastic MMO really - but w/o the social aspects it just doesn't do anything for me anymore, and I'm too old/busy/tired to make new friends.
I guess you get to a point where you have so much going in IRL the thought of leading a second life online is just impossible anymore - which IMO is what it takes to really immerse yourself into one of these worlds.
So I'm definitely an "hour or two here and there" MMO player now.
Kind of thinking on going back to WoW just because it's SO easy to reach my personal goals using LFG dungeon finder, LFR Raid Finder, and the BG system. And it fits my schedule.
I'll still be checking out GW2 from time to time, for sure, and maybe in a few major patches I'll find enough to love to make GW2 my casual couple hour a week MMO.
But right now the visuals are about the only thing I really, really love about GW2 (especially after playing MoP a bit this weekend- best looking WoW expansion yet but damn, WoW is still just so dated visually.)
I'm entirely sure you are not alone.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Really no surprises here as we continue to see more and more of these threads.. GW2 is just not avery good MMO if it wasnt F2P it would have a helluva lot less people playing it right now.. But time will fix that...
So many people just follow the hype train like freakin sheep only to be dissapointed over and over... Well there is always ToR to go back to ............ errrrr nm ..........
I'm not looking for the "next great MMO" anymore. I'm giving up.
I'm looking for a game I can play in a 2-3 hour block 2-3 times a week.
Actually I'm just looking for a game to last me another 8 days until Halo 4 releases.
And after that probably bounce between Halo 4 and CoD Black Ops 2 when that comes out a week later.
I've got 8 more days free trial of WoW: MoP so that'll get me to the 6th.
try xcom if you enjoy turn based games.. game is really fun:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yes and no.
I know the problems I found with the game are in part due to my own issues with gaming and MMO gaming in general.
Yet issues like Orr sucking and the big meta-event bosses sucking are actual issues w/ the game that just compound my own disinterest.
Lots of what I said is of course subjective, but it'd be hard to hear anyone justify what Orr has become and what these mega-events are like.
I think GW2 is a really great MMO with some really great ideas that if you are able to fully immerse yourself in would be / is a great, great MMO.
But for someone like me who has limited time, attention span, and is generally burned out - I just need a quick fix and the carrot chasing LFG/insant action etc. of other games is just more appealing to me at this point.
You've made it further than I did. I only managed to get to level 60, warrior, before I said to hell with it, and went back to the Land of the Panda. I have my warrior to 90, and a panda monk to 35. But I'm not certain I'm going to take it to 90. This would be my 10th time through this content. Its an interesting class, but I have others that do different things I'm interested in better.
Right now I'm playing RaiderZ. Its quite the entertaining game, and I actually enjoy the active combat system.
Guild wars 2 is very polished, but I really do not care for the combat system. It seems way too limited, and I agree, that I spend way too much time waiting for cool downs, and none of the abilities really stand out. Over all, I suspect its main focus of exploration and achivement suits certain people. Many others are left asking "Wheres the beef?"...
Fair enough but after reading your post i felt that your main problem is 'inablity to socialize'.
I think it's time people realize someting, hopefully one day threads like these will stop popping up every second!
My best friend started playing GW2 with me, I think he was lvl 40ish when he said that
"This is still not the MMO I'm looking for, there's a lot of things that I was hoping for that don't exist... bla bla bla"
Now I will give to you the same reply I gave him, and it applies to everyone that keeps complaining and saying that "It's GW2 fault that I quit playing it"
It is not GW2 fault if you started playing it and eventually quit and went back to MMO X, it's your fault for being addicted to MMO X and trying to cure your addiction with a new one, unfortunately for you GW2 wasn't the drug you were looking for... so you went back to the familiar one.
Most people go back because it's "familiar" to them, either due to friends/guildies or because they rather be mindlessly bored in something they already know inside and out than in something new.
GW2 isn't that different from other major MMOs in the market, so if you're not enjoying it and go back to whatever other major MMO you were playing before then it's exactly the case I just described, you're just another zombie... nothing wrong with it, just don't put the blame on GW2 for not being the cure for your illness. It never even promised that to begin with.
It really pisses me off this constant, "Oh it's just another MMO... I'll wait for the next one, that will be a true sandbox experience, that's what I want"
THERE WILL NEVER BE SUCH AN MMO!.... now give yourselves time for this information to sink in.
Human beings are never satisfied, never.... it's part of the human condition. So by association, you will never find the MMO that has everything you want... it will never exist. Don't bother trying to argue that it does, because it doesn't.
What does exist is some MMO that you accept even with the flaws you very well know it has, because the pros outweight the cons. And that's perfectly fine!!! Just don't come here and preach that GW2 is a disapointment, and that it failed, and that it's not very good. Simply isn't true, it just doesn't fit your impossible expectations.
It is everyone's fault that MMOs are underperforming, because MMO gamers are the worst kind of gamers... whiny and self-entitled, most don't even understand what a good MMO is! They just need a fix of something for a while and then move on to the new drug, complain that it's not like the old drug and then go back to the old one... and this cycle repeats ad nauseum.
Don't like it... don't play it, it couldn't be farther from the truth saying something isn't good just because you're not capable of handling it.
Playing:
RIFT, EU Blightweald Server
Waiting to see:
ToR, TERA, GW2
That's probably true.
I just don't have the time, patience, and dedication to really "immerse" myself in a MMO anymore - and part of that immersion to me (a major part) is the socialization.
No matter what game it is, EvE, WoW, TOR, GW2...
I know in a lot of ways it is me, not the games. I accept that.
And I've said, GW2 is a great game - best to be released since WoW 2004. Without a doubt in my mind.
Does it have issues? Yes - and I think I highlighted some of them in my OP. But name a MMO that doesn't have issues?
I'll be playing Xbox shooters with my friends/family for social gaming time.
For personal gaming time, I'll probably play something I can hop in and have some fun and make some progress - chasing carrots.
I dont think anyone (or at least myself) is blaming GW2. I cant blame a product for my decisions. We are just stating what the game was lacking that made us (at least me) loose interest. No different than people who state why they absolutely love the game (but there is no opposition against that as there is here).
People play games for different reasons. Some developers cater to those more than others. When a game doesnt present what you are looking for (but was expected) they will stop playing the game. It doesn't make someone a "zombie" Why resort to name calling and labelling? Just because you like the game and someone else doesn't?
Half of you on here need a hug. You get too sensitive over an opinion and attack it as opposed to just having a discusion.
But yeah I know, this is MMORPG... But I can still dream ;-)
Can't please all of the people all of the time. Hope you find something enjoyable in the mean time.
Don't you find it at least a little bit hypocritical that a lot of (and it really is a lot of) people who start "I quit" threads usually end up going back to an MMO that boiled down to the basics is exactly the same as the one they're quitting, just with a different name and scenario?
It's just a matter of confort, what our mind perceives as it, by returning to something that a) Has people that we already know, b) Doesn't offer us any resistance, meaning we already know all the mechanics and such.
Zombies nowadays are cool, so it wasn't name calling ehehe. Just a joke to lighen up...
Well, now more seriously, I was a "slave" to an MMO for years and years, and I did all the same "I'll quit" speeches just to find myself returning to it because, hey... I enjoyed it for so many time, why not keep enjoying it. But the truth is most people are "zombified" by this, because they're not actually enjoying themselves anymore... they just need something so that they won't quit MMO'ing cold turkey.
This is not a crazy theory, there is extensive research into the field of gaming, social networking, etc etc that supports that we, humans, have a tendency to immerse ourselves too much in fantasy worlds.
It is my honest belief that a lot of gamers (like everyone else in different areas of life) don't really know what they want... they just know they need something.
Playing:
RIFT, EU Blightweald Server
Waiting to see:
ToR, TERA, GW2
Perfect post, BadSpock! I agree with every single point, from GW2's good ideas but poor sense of accomplishment and fun to the general malaise about MMOs in general.
I thought GW2 was going to finally provide a game "home" after so many years of disappointments. I really wanted it to, and I was cautiously optomistic while playing through the PvE content.
Sadly, it all became quickly pointless. PvE leads nowhere. Veteran and champion level enemies with thousands or millions of extra health that yield nothing are tedious enough by themselves to make me avoid the game in disgust. sPvP is always one-sided or it teleports you to the losing team with no hope of recovery. And WvW, which I had hoped would be an epic ongoing tactical battle of awesomeness, turned out to be a stunning disappointment of zergishness that throws character planning and strategy in the garbage.
I wish I had another game to recommend and raise your spirits, BadSpock, but I'm in the same boat you are. (Well, technically not, since I'm not on board the IIS Enterprise.) My only recourse at the moment is Nefflix.
If you learn of any promising new games, please let me know!