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Originally posted by Zylaxx Originally posted by Mahavishnu This game is awesome! A few seconds ago I just did this: I saw a vista on a high mountain and could not find a way to reach it, until I understood that I had to climb up from the other side. So I walked through a tunnel and passed a camp, that I already knew. Only this time there was an attack from underground which led to a boss fight. So I stayed a while and enjoyed the fight. Afterwards I continued my search for a way to the vista and discovered a cave full with spiders. The first spiders were easy but then there came a bigger one which called for help of its minions. Desperately I just rushed through all spiders to where I assumed to be the exit to the vista and I found it. But there were still the spiders behind me! I jumped over cliffs and stones to get rid of the majority of them and succeeded. So in the end it was me against big mama and one of her children, it was a long fight and I almost died several times. I had to use all my skills and tactics to survive. When I finally claimed the vista it really felt like the end to an epic adventure! No other MMO on the market gives me the same excitement.
This is why GW2 is the best MMO on the market, screw scripted encounters.
But of course the haters will say shit like "what did you gain" or "was there any phat loot". IMO only a narrow minded individual is in it for the loot. The fun and enjoyment of adventures like the one you described is why I play.
I love loot. I love rewards whether cosmetic or otherwise. What is with this generalisations? can't make a point without putting labels?
I liked the game, but the thief exploit in WvW was one of 2 tipping points for me.
nothing fighting invisible armies, seriously, they couldn't fix this or take the ability away until they fixed it?
and 2, the constant server moves of guilds wanting to ruin or 'help' other servers for WvW. between them and the invisible armies, WvW became a futile place to spend any time, and if no WvW, I'm playing a different game, like I am. I have more fun playing WAR Tier 1 endless trial.
If I hear word they fixed both issues I'll return, but definitely not worth my time until then.
Originally posted by Requiemsvoid Honestly? Approach GW2 as a standard 60$ Action/Adventure Console game (Skyrim) w/online co-op ~ then you'll be pretty satisfied with your purchase and how GW2 caters to that mindset. IE: Get in, play.. get out, walk away and wait for the next batch of DLC (expansion). However, if you approach GW2 as an MMO ~ odds are, you'll be disappointed for several reasons. Standardized Loot / Character Progression / Combat:: 1. Everything is set up so, no one really ever feels powerful. 2. Lack of trinity means, you don't need anyone and are not needed by anyone. The staples of an MMO are designed around creating a community from the players and promoting them to work together. ~ in this aspect, GW2 fails as an MMO. Granted people can argue, saying that GW2 is amazing and is better off without the Trinity and having to rely on other players. They then point to Dynamic events and how you "need" other people to kill mobs like Balthazar, Dragons, ect.. But do you really? are the faceless masses anymore "personal" than having a bunch of henchmen NPC to help you finish the event? Think about it ~ we don't know the names of other people at those events, because we're not there for them ~ we don't need to talk, we don't need to socialize or even organize ~ we only care about the "chance" at uber loot (perhaps the precursor?) and to farm Karma/Gold. Since those bosses are nothing more than HP sponges that hit like trucks (no tactics) ~ people just sit back and spam, leaving the few people that agro the mob to be chased by him, while they take pot shots at it and if someone gets low on HP they throw down their AOE heals. Basically, GW2 tries to mimic the Trinity without creating a "need" for people to do anything more than zerg the content. This trivializes going back to old content while being "leveled down" in that you see no point as you could "experience" the same content at your own level and at least get appropriate gear/loot. Even the dungeons are designed this way with their "Corpse run, waypoints". In all senses of the word "community" ~ it seems that GW2 fails. This includes the free 24 hour server transfers that shred any hopes of a well built community as well at the ability to join multiple guilds, and yet refuse to put in a multi-chat for each of them, requiring you to "represent" one guild at a time, in order to talk to other members of that guild. The same goes for World Vs World ~ you cannot see enemy players names.. and there are no scoreboards dedicated to the very skilled or elite of the "leaders" ~ in fact, if you wish to be a "leader" you need only spend 100 gold on a tome to become a commander, there are no other prerequisites or skill based requirements. IE: No one knows who you are or why you're deserving to be a "leader" ~ they only see an impersonal title. When I talk to my friends of old, and why they use to play MUD's, Asherons Call and Ultima Online ~ they always talk about the "community" and how back then, those games WERE Facebook. As in, a place for like minded people to gather, socialize and enjoy the craft. GW2 doesn't do that, and in my opinion is why WoW is still "king" ~ despite their outdated graphics and kung fu panda hijinks.. If you've ever heard someone shout "FOR THE HORDE!" ~ you can see without a shadow of a doubt that the game inspires and promotes a sense of community... for better or worse. At the end of the day, can you really say that GW2 IS an MMO anymore than League of Legends, Team Fortress 2 or Playing Skyrim while talking to your friends on skype?
If an a game was judged to be an MMO purely on its social aspects, then GW2 would not qualify, as it makes it very hard to maintain gameplay even with a small group of friends, and the guild functions, or lack of them, are a joke. But it does look like a fun game, perhaps the best way to approach GW2 is as a single player game, it doesnt after all, have a subscription, so like other SPRPG's there is no cost associated with further gameplay after initial purchase, barring DLC of course, which many SPRPG's have these days. But it does suffer from the 'themepark' effect, which seems to be, initial spike and then everybody gets bored and plays something else again.. on the plus side, because fewer people are playing now there arent the same queues for WvW pvp that there used to be.. so every cloud has a silver lining.
Originally posted by Requiemsvoid
There is nothing to disagree here.
We can all agree that time consuming elements were removed.
Are they the things that make MMO a MMO ? ... we are used to see them that way.
And there is no question that they add complexity to the game. The worst kind though : complexity of time investment.
(for example only complexity of WOW or EQ2 is mater of who has more time to invest. AKA all can be achieved with enough time on your hands)
GW2 removes "complexity of time investment" , but doesnt add some new cleverer complexity.
That is the problem.
But lets look at GW2 as CASUAL MMO - because this is what GW2 is.
I have no time as I once had. And will never reach max level in WOW and can not even dream of doing raids.
GW2 lets me have all the fun , and have it with my limited time.
So if you have to much time to BURN - GW2 is certanly not enough for you. People with too much time should view GW2 as side game.
But for me its exactly what I needed...
when people leave gw2 i wonder where they are going
its not like any other mmo thats acctualy better
and almost all its equals you need to pay a subscription
the only exception i can see is anything that isnt a fantasy mmo like eve or planetside 2 or they are giving up mmo's
Originally posted by zimboy69 when people leave gw2 i wonder where they are going its not like any other mmo thats acctualy better and almost all its equals you need to pay a subscription the only exception i can see is anything that isnt a fantasy mmo like eve or planetside 2 or they are giving up mmo's
the elephant is still in the building however, and gw2 lacks a hell of a lot of being an 'all rounder' the P2P games are still the best ones, but don't hold your breath for Planetside 2, early indications are that the game is a lemon.
I went back to playing console games ^_^
well, that and League of Legends
So far, I've not played GW2 in almost a month got like 200-300 hours invested::
How "far" did I get in Guild Wars 2?Characters::Lv80 Necro ~ 5 Epics, Stopped Personal Story at lv26Lv78 Elementalist ~ No Epics, Stopped Personal Story at lv13Lv23 Warrior ~ No Epics, Stopped Personal Story at lv4Lv28 Thief ~ No Epics, Stopped Personal Story at lv18Lv32 Engineer ~ No Epics, Stopped Personal Story at lv6Professions::Lv400, Cooking ~ On x4 CharactersLv400, Artificing ~ On x3 CharactersLv400, Tailor ~ On x1 ChacterLv400, Armorer ~ On x1 CharacterLv400, Jeweler ~ On x2 CharactersWorld Completion:: 44%PvP Kills:: 108Achievement Points:: 1,280
If you notice, I have multiple lv400 duplicate crafts as well as 2 characters around lv80.
So it's pretty obvious that I leveled almost all my characters through crafting alone.. but that wasn't out of choice, but because no matter which server I transfered to or how much guild prostituting I attempted... no one ever wanted to do anything together.
Most of the time, people would say that they don't want to invest the "silver" into completing zones and when I talked about dungeons, they cost of repares would come up or how you got better loot farming Jormag and the other "timed" events.
Basically, I quit playing GW2 cause it felt like a single player game and I wasn't having fun.
Add in that loot was standardized so no one could ever feel powerful and that WvW really had no goal/impact on anything.. just trivalized all the work ANet put into the game.
So where did I go?
First there was Torchlight 2.... then Borderlands 2.... all the while, I dive in and out of League of Legends and as of last week, I go into the beta of an Indie game.
At the end of the day, GW2 may be a good game ~ but it's pretty obvious that ANet are aiming for the "casual of the casual" crowd, thus leaves people like me that want a challenge and to be surrounded by other like minded players.. "wanting".
lol, anywho.. thanks for the intelligent replies to my post, it's kinda refreshing not getting flamed for having an opinion or seeing GW2 in a different "light" ^_^.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Originally posted by grimal Originally posted by Creslin321 Originally posted by grimal Originally posted by Creslin321 Originally posted by halflife25 Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by halflife25 Originally posted by Creslin321 Yes, you should try .
Anyway, I suppose there was a time when I actually contributed useful things to this site way back when. But now I recognize it for what it is and that time has passed lol.
also, isn't your calling out of my opinion that his opinion is stupid, basically the same thing I did ?
No;;;i am simply disagreeing with your way of dealing with people who might have different interpretation of terms MMO. I don't think even remotely implied that your opinion is stupid. I just don't feel there are any absolutes or my interpretation is the only right one when it comes to MMOS.
seriously though I have been playing RPGs for over 20 years calling GW2 not an RPG is ridiculous and saying it's not an MMO is equally ridiculous.. i could go around saying GW2 has more sandbox elements than themepark but that statement doesn't make me look any less stupid even if it is just my opinion
I thought we just got over this on alst page? anyways...
Only day i will start calling other people stupid for having a different opinion is when i am completely full of myself. But since i am not, i respect others opinions as much i expect them to respect mine.
Now if someone is twisting facts is another matter. Look at the new title Star Citizen for example. The whole MMO term is evoloving with every new title so much that the creator doesn't want to confine his game into any limitations of one definition.
So your 20 years of experince playing RPG got nothign to do with interpretation of the term MMO. Which is not absolute and never was.
Valid opinion: I don't like baseball, I think it is boring to watch.
Stupid opinion: baseball is not a sport.
you know, I remember that there used to be a time where people could actually be WRONG. But now apparently, we have to respect evreryone's opinion regardless of how delusional those opinions are.
You are comparing apples and oranges here.
I never said I didn't like GW2; in fact, I like it.
I just consider it a different type of MMO than you do. The difference here is that you are calling me stupid for it.
I'm actually calling your opinion stupid .
i also don't care if you like or dislike gw2...I'm arguing with you because you are trying reject the classification of a game that everyone agrees on just to make some kind of point. This does nothing but cause confusion, and I always thought it was a really sily thing to do. This is just like the people who swear that skyrim isn't a sandbox.
I am arguing that GW2 fits into a subcategory of MMOs...Much like the term "sandbox" and "themepark" do. If we didn't use those terms, someone who bought SWTOR thinking it would be like SWG would be gravely disappointed.
A lot of people have posted on these boards they went into GW2 expecting something different...ie more of an MMORPG feel. Look around. People have posted they find it "shallow", "MMO-lite", "lacking progression", etc. So I am not alone in this.
Maybe, just maybe all of us could come to some sort of agreement that these games are in fact different and maybe going in with the expectations of an MMORPG only to encounter a MMOCRPG could be avoided in future.
The developers may not want to use these terms yet, but it doesn't mean that it isn't true.
Massively multiplayer online role-playing game (MMORPG) is a genre of role-playing video games in which a very large number of players interact with one another within avirtual game world.
As in all RPGs, players assume the role of a character (often in a fantasy world) and take control over many of that character's actions. MMORPGs are distinguished from single-player or small multi-player RPGs by the number of players, and by the game's persistent world (usually hosted by the game's publisher), which continues to exist and evolve while the player is offline and away from the game.
Sure sounds like gw2 to me.
Oh no! Are we going to have to avoid using MMORPG like we avoid using sandbox because it will devolve the thread into an overly long, pointless b*&^% session.
Originally posted by fundayz Originally posted by Jimmydean Originally posted by Creslin321 Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by Lobotomist So in short. It maybe didnt live to everyones expectations
It all depends on whether you blame yourself, or everything else in the world, for managing your expectations?
Or, ya know, if you were expecting an MMORPG from a title labeled as MMORPG.
Massively multiplayer? Check
Sooooo please explain how GW2 is NOT an MMORPG.
It's prefectly fine to say "I didn't like GW2, it doesn't have the things I look for in an MMO", but to make the claim that GW2 is not an MMORPG is simply absurd.
The criticism of longevity is justified.
Calling the game anything other than an MMO is typically egocentric.
Most criticisms of the game follow the same idiotic equation.
A - personal experience of game
B - susceptibility to the standpoint of trolling posts
C - ability to seperate subjectivity from objectivity
Z - the degree to which personal bias is reported as fact
A x B = Z
Originally posted by Lobotomist Originally posted by Requiemsvoid
+1 for Common sense.
My opinion: Though I will say some with a lot of time,manage to make it their Main MMORPG, I don't have a lot of time to burn myself but I do play GW2 as my main MMO(So put me in that casual) but I know people who play it constantly, me personally I don't see the enjoyment in living off [one] game, I don't care how fun it is.
Ypu guys enjoy life and peace.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Well you can accomplish basically anything in any game with enough of time. People who are on highest ranks / elo in twitch / 'so called skill' based games are also spending alot of time playing them. You need to spend alot of time mastering your skill, muscle memory and so on. I know I was playing Warcraft 3 1v1 ladder years ago and I was like on 200 place on Northend. Mind you it was not very high as ladder has 1000 places, but to maintain this and getting better or even just being on same 'skill level' it required regular gameplay.
People I knew from guilds that were even higher on ladder were spending even more time.
Getting better = time consuming is present in all games. Well it is basically present in all life activities.
I was once not that bad in basketball. Was not good mind you, but amongst my friends I was higher than average.
I tried playing recently after many years. I am soooooooo bad right now. My mind and my body does not remember how to play and I would have to spend alot of time to get back on the level I was when I was still in high school.
Besides problem with many mmorpg's is that they changed design to concentrate on so called 'end-game' instances and left so called levelling. At same time they have removed game elements from this levelling and effect is that it is boring chore.
Anyway like I said everything is achiveable with enough time investment. Of course difftent people might have to invest diffrent amounts of time to achieve same thing, but whenever it is tactical game, grind game, skill game or any other game - everything is achiveable with enough time.
Even if you suck at fast twitch games and have slow reactions I assure you that with regular playing for big amount of time, you can become very good player and make your reaction time faster multiple times.
It might take months or years but it will happen.
I am personally just not gonna play any mmoprg. Actually GW2 was first mmorpg I've wanted to play in 2 years. Of course I've checked other games betas or trails / f2p versions, but there was no game in 2 years I wanted to play. Ended up quitting GW2 after 35 hours + like ~20-30 hours in beta events.
Subscription is not a problem, problem lies that there is no mmoprg that is build on concept I like.
I persoanlly know more and more people that are just going on indefinied amount of hiatus in playing mmorpg's. Basically quitting. Unless someone is addicted to mmorpg's he can simply decide to not play any rather than to play 'best one avabile' even though he / she does not enjoy it.
Originally posted by CallsignVega Originally posted by fundayz Originally posted by Jimmydean Originally posted by Creslin321 Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by Lobotomist So in short. It maybe didnt live to everyones expectations
You could play GW2 by yourself, there isn't anything massively multiplayer about it. The amount of crappy instances in the game is mind-boggling. Guilds mean nothing and are chat rooms, and group encounters can be doneby random people running into each other not saying a word. Yawn.
So what is massively to you?
If it's not broken, you are not innovating.
Originally posted by stevebmbsqd Originally posted by Creslin321 Originally posted by grimal Originally posted by Creslin321 Originally posted by grimal Originally posted by Creslin321 Originally posted by halflife25 Originally posted by Aerowyn Originally posted by halflife25 Originally posted by Creslin321 Yes, you should try .
Oh no! I can't counter facts so I write bullshit instead.
Originally posted by Torgrim Oh no! I can't counter facts so I write bullshit instead.
What? wikipedia stats facts now? ok.
Originally posted by Lobotomist Let me just ask you : What did you expect ? We can all agree that some people here had unrealistic expectations. And thats putting it lightly. "Savior of MMORPG" , "Sandbox" ... to say the few. And than some people woke up... Ouch. What we have in fact is a MMO "lite" with very high production values. Some new ideas - some implemented good some bad. Its also a spiritual sucessor to GW1 which does some things better (more open world) and some worse (skill system) But is it a bad game ? I value quality of the game by value i get from it. I got over 300 hours out of it so far. And while I myself log in much less these days. The fact that i can log in whenever I want makes me sure I will get at least 300 more. And the Halloween events just come to show how Anet will add content constantly to the game. I find this an excellent value for B2P product. So in short. It maybe didnt live to everyones expectations ( It did to mine . I pretty much expected all the shortcommings ) But it does not make it a bad game. And certanly not a game not worth to have. So even if you are leaving you will probably be back. Peace out
Iotally agree with you..
O top of that, being on vacation for almost a week now, i cant wayt to jump back in again when back home next week. Despite all itsshortcommings which i predicted long ago its still an awesome experience..
Te biggest unexpected shortcomming is that it feels much more like a game the like a virtual world, which is what i had been hoping for.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Originally posted by halflife25 Originally posted by Torgrim Oh no! I can't counter facts so I write bullshit instead.
Yes everyone knows that wiki is written by 10 year olds for lolz.
Originally posted by Torgrim Originally posted by halflife25 Originally posted by Torgrim Oh no! I can't counter facts so I write bullshit instead.
Ahh the generation Z. Quoting all its facts from wikipedia and telling others to keep it real.
Originally posted by Mannish Its not a bad game but its a bad mmo. Why? Because it lacks everything that makes a mmo into a mmo. High production? I dont even see it. The game looks and plays like a budget free to play game.
Spot on there - as it can be a good game but it is not a good MMO at all....
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus Originally posted by Lobotomist Let me just ask you : What did you expect ? We can all agree that some people here had unrealistic expectations. And thats putting it lightly. "Savior of MMORPG" , "Sandbox" ... to say the few. And than some people woke up... Ouch. What we have in fact is a MMO "lite" with very high production values. Some new ideas - some implemented good some bad. Its also a spiritual sucessor to GW1 which does some things better (more open world) and some worse (skill system) But is it a bad game ? I value quality of the game by value i get from it. I got over 300 hours out of it so far. And while I myself log in much less these days. The fact that i can log in whenever I want makes me sure I will get at least 300 more. And the Halloween events just come to show how Anet will add content constantly to the game. I find this an excellent value for B2P product. So in short. It maybe didnt live to everyones expectations ( It did to mine . I pretty much expected all the shortcommings ) But it does not make it a bad game. And certanly not a game not worth to have. So even if you are leaving you will probably be back. Peace out
I think you hit the nail on the head with that one. A lot of people call this an MMOlite because it is exactly what you said. GW2 is much more like a game than a virtual world. To some people this is a positive and to some it is a detractor.
Originally posted by halflife25 Ahh the generation Z. Quoting all its facts from wikipedia and telling others to keep it real. *high five*
You have a tendency to issue disdainful comments and/or direct insults when cornered.
I mean, that's ok for a defense mechanism, just a little transparent.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by Icewhite Originally posted by halflife25 Ahh the generation Z. Quoting all its facts from wikipedia and telling others to keep it real. *high five*
Unless you agree with him on 'wikipedia states facts' too.
And since when geenration Z is an insult? if you are really that sensitive i think you are on wrong forums. If you have a personal problem with me, you can always ignore me. it is that easy.
Originally posted by Icewhite You have a tendency to issue disdainful comments and/or direct insults when cornered.
Please don't tell me you believe that interpretation of term MMO is some kind of fact and quoting wikipedia (seriously?) somehow proves that fact.
I enjoy reading your posts and believe you are one of the few smart posters on these forums. Don't disappoint me now.
Originally posted by halflife25 Unless you agree with him on 'wikipedia states facts' too. And since when geenration Z is an insult? if you are really that sensitive i think you are on wrong forums. If you have a personal problem with me, you can always ignore me. it is that easy.
The only FACT is one you derive or test on your own. Everything else is just you believeing someone else.
You decided to single out Wikipedia as something not to trust. That's fine, but I predict your life will be much harder than neccessary - unless you're lying, of course, and rely heavily on Wikipedia - just not today, to prove a point?
Calling someone "young" (generation Z) and tying a specific ineptitude to it is an insult. I'm amazed you'd try to convince us otherwise.
Originally posted by Lobotomist So even if you are leaving you will probably be back. Peace out
I played guildwars 1 for nearly two years, if I only get 300 hours out of any game that remotly claims to be an mmo. I will never ever go back to it.
There are so many games that are so MUCH better than GW2, that the only time I'd ever even think about GW2 is when I read about how you all got conned by the hype.
I guess I do have the insight into ANET from GW1, and knew they were a shocking hype organisation who's products are weak at the core, so I didnt buy GW2.
Every single person I know who bought GW2 no longer plays it and have no intentions to either, they dont feel 'ripped off' per se, but they do feel like they have been mislead.