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Smedley: "EverQuest Next will be the world's largest sandbox-style MMO ever made"

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  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by hercules

    Dunno  if this has been posted already but as we all suspected the failure of swtor was the main reason for soe to take a new direction in the design

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/10/23/sony-online-everquest-next-design/

    But they scrapped their work before any of those games came out... I think he's using those more as supporting evidence of his idea that themeparks(WoW clones) are done.

     

  • NeherunNeherun St. MichelPosts: 278Member
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by pvpirl

    Now, I never played SWG, what was it about that game, from those that played it, that made it such a good game? such a good sandbox? What elements would you like to see in EQN?

    1. Being able to build the character you wanted, since it had a skill-based system.

    2. Playermade cities governed by player Mayors

    3. Being able to own your own house

    4. Player made economy, complete with full-time crafting professions. Almost everything you wore was player crafted. It wasn't a loot based game.

    5. Clothing, lots and lots of different kinds of clothing, so you could look unique.

    6. Flag yourself PvP system.

    7. The community. Very helpful, and almost everyone RPed every once in a while. Image Designers, Interior Decorators, Crafters, and Entertainers all acted the way you'd expect one in their respective professions to act. Some people, encouraged by the freedom the world offered, RPed 100% of the time. 

    8. Entertainers and other non-combat full-time professions. 

     

    There's the part that made me originally unsub from SWG, /flag PvP restricts a player too much. Some of you fulltime crafters may not want it. But all the real good stuff (thievery! banditry! mercenary work! assassinations! piracy! warfare involving politics!) are out once flagged PvP happens. The world may turn into a more grim state, but a sandbox requires the option to be the villain, as there is always the bully to smash your sand castle into bits, but its up to you whether to call forth your big brother, or grab that shover and stick it up the ass of the one who broke your castle.

     

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  • ice-vortexice-vortex Xenia, OHPosts: 951Member
    Originally posted by rungard
    Originally posted by pvpirl

    I just installed and played EQ2 for the first time. The EQN team better, BETTER, forget any of those design concepts ever happened. And post luclin EQ1 frankly.

     well after having a really good look at planetside 2's systems i have this feeling that the entire eq next gameworld will have a major territory control component to it and aside of starting cities there will be no safezones in the world and the game will be FPS.  

    i have this feeling that there will be frontlines for war and the teams will be as follows. The frontlines will be constant battles but behind the lines it will be relatively safe with guards and patrols.

     

    Good                    Neutral               
     
    Evil                 
     
    Dwarf
    Fae
    Froglok
    Halfling
    High Elf
    Wood Elf

    Barbarian
    Erudite
    Gnome
    Half Elf
    Human
    Kerra
     

    Arasai
    Dark Elf
    Iksar
    Ogre
    Sarnak
    Troll
     
    image

     

    The original EQ PVP servers had factions: Blue: Human, Barbarian, and Erudite. Purple: Gnome, Dwarf, and Halfling. Yellow: Wood Elf, High Elf, and Half-Elf. Orange: Dark Elf, Ogre, and Troll. I think it was one too many factions, so your faction list could be interesting, but with the world of Norrath being reinvisioned, they could go farther than simply Good vs Neutral vs Evil.

  • ScotScot UKPosts: 5,762Member Uncommon
    The title, hopefully that will change. EQ Next. It sounds like a cosplay clothing store and shows no creativity what so ever.
  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Scot
    The title, hopefully that will change. EQ Next. It sounds like a cosplay clothing store and shows no creativity what so ever.

    They said thats the code name of the project and not its acualy name i beleikve you will get the acualy name of the game when they show it off at the fanfair next year. They did state its just tempory name atm.

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Anyone who thinks EQNext is going to be built with PvP at the forefront is dreaming. Yeah it will have a great PvP system but EQ has always and will always be a PVE mmo at it's core.

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I like pvp
    Im not excited by EQ next.

    I am with planetside 2 though.
    I expect EQ next to be heavily biased towards pve like its predecessors (eq, eq2) and their descendants (wow, rift, swtor).

    I hope it has no pvp at all, then can tell the "must have lots of hard raids and not much of anything else" people that invade every beta to bugger off and play EQ next.
  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Planetside 2 was called planetside next at one point.
  • OzmodanOzmodan Hilliard, OHPosts: 7,189Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    SOE has a history of proclaiming their latest games are going to be the biggest/best/greatest ever released.  I remember he was dancing to that tune back when EQ2 was coming out, talking about how revolutionary it was going to be.  Instead, we just got "/pizza".

    The best pizza i ever had. EQ2 is even today is an amazing game. Dwarfs every other PVE MMO in content and features.

    Tried EQ2 at least 4 times, even tried the f2p version.  I found the game to be the most boring MMO I have ever played.  Sure it has lots of content, just not very interesting content IMO.  The only SOE game I ever got into  was SWG and we all know what they did with that game.  Smedley's idea of a good MMO and mine have a huge chasm between them.

    So I will take a wait and see attitude on EQNext.  All the decent developers they had at SOE have left long ago and I have not been impressed with the ones they have there now.

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,536Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rungard
     

     This is accurate. I dont agree than you cant use a class system in a sandbox, but eq certainly has a skill based system underneath its levelling system. eq had soo much fun stuff that no one talks about. That stuff was the magic. Not the levels and not the raids. Weve seen what magic is created from levels and raids.

    lets see what the other magic can do.

    I've found the bit in orange to be true of most MMOs I've played.

    It's always baffled me when people would call Final Fantasy XI (pre-Abyssea) "nothing but a level grind to end-game". They'd complain about doing nothing but grinding on mobs all the time. There were, when I stopped playing, 23+ different activities to participate in. Each had their own content, rules, rewards and requirements, and they were spread out across many levels, not just "high level".

    So, *I* knew the game offered far more than just "grinding levels" and "end-game raiding". The problem is, players coming into the game had this idea firmly stuck in their head that "MMOs = grinding to level cap, then raiding endlessly". This has been the case for pretty much every new MMO to come out for the last 7 years or so.

    The stranger part is, they'd complain about it. They'd complain about the games being nothing but an endless level grind, and how they were sick of it. Thing is, the game was like that for them because all they spent their time doing was grinding levels. But then when you'd point out "well, you know, there's all these 20+ other activities you could also do... You don't have to spend all your time grinding xp", you'd get your head bitten off with some tirade about how "all that other content is useless because it doesn't help you level faster and the rewards aren't worth it". I'd be told, quite firmly, that MMOs were all about end game and that getting there as efficiently as possible was all that mattered. All that other content was "useless filler".

    Yet they complained about it.

    It became apparent to me a long time ago now that players are demonstrably their own worst enemies. The one thing they claim to hate is the one thing they'll argue vehemently that "the games are all about", to the exclusion of almost anything else.

    Funniest thing (in a sad way) is, they'd eventually get burned out, fed up and move on to another MMO - to do exactly the same thing: grinding levels non-stop and doing only content that helped them level faster or got them "the best rewards". And once again, they'd blame the devs/game for making the game "nothing but an endless grind-fest", even though there was all this other stuff to do.

    It was the classic definition of insanity: Doing the same thing repeatedly, and expecting a different result.

    And it still happens to this day. The obvious cause of their frustration is staring them in the face, yet they never see it. Or maybe they do, but in their conceit, believe they've got it right and the devs have it all wrong; that they know what the game is "all about" more than those "clueless devs" who spent years designing and developing it in the first place.

    Just look at some of the most common questions people ask when they're just starting a game, or even just interested in checking it out: "How much end game is there?" and "How long does it take to get to level cap?". They haven't even launched the game for the first time yet, and they're already concerned about end game? Really?

    I think that's the biggest hurdle Smed and SOE have to contend with. I'm sure they can come up with some really interesting concepts/ideas. But until MMO gamers are willing to take a step back, re-evaluate their own preferences and proclivities and are willing to unchain themselves from their own treadmill... it's going to be an uphill battle. I have no real expectations of that happening. MMO gamers, many of them, are far too conceited and set in their ways to ever see what they're doing as being the problem. Far easier to blame those "clueless devs who don't know how to make a MMO". 

    I think the best hope SOE and Smed have is to settle on the fact that they aren't going to attract a huge, WoW-like fan-base, that the game will likely end up with a smaller, but solid and loyal playerbase that will stick with them and grow steadily over the years - like Eve Online did.

    Smed says they want to make a MMO that lasts 15 years. That longevity won't be supported by the fly-by-night, "game of the month" MMO hoppers. It will be supported by the long-term players who really dig in, plant roots, and call the Norrath of EQNext "home" for the long term. He just has to stick to the vision they have for the game, and not cave into trying to appeal more to the typical "themepark crowd" who just want more of the same.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    he could start by getting rid of the levels or at least split them up enough and put them in the background so the gameplay isnt decided by them.

    He might as well, they only last a month anyway.

  • BossalinieBossalinie Hattiesburg, MSPosts: 683Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TangentPoint

    Smed says they want to make a MMO that lasts 15 years. That longevity won't be supported by the fly-by-night, "game of the month" MMO hoppers. It will be supported by the long-term players who really dig in, plant roots, and call the Norrath of EQNext "home" for the long term. He just has to stick to the vision they have for the game, and not cave into trying to appeal more to the typical "themepark crowd" who just want more of the same.

    Unfortunately, you are only going to see that mentality in old school vets. And out of the old school vets, some, like myself can no longer do this type of gaming.

    AAA dev + niche following != 15 years

  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member

    I haven't seriously played an MMO in years. Oh here or there I'll try something to scratch the itch, from Runescape to the latest title to go f2p, I try it but never stay.

    EQ Next (barring any miraculous Ultima Online 2) will be my last MMO. If it fails, I'm done with this as a hobby. If it succeeds, I'll stick around for 15.

    On another note, as much as I am fanboi-ing over EQN, every time I read an article about it and see this quote

    “The fans need to realize that if you don’t change the nature of what these games are, you’re not going to change that core behavior."

    I'm like BRO WE'VE BEEN TELLING YOU THAT FOR FUCKING YEARS. You don't have to make us realize. We know.

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  • lifeordinarylifeordinary AgadirPosts: 646Member
    Originally posted by Ozmodan
    Tried EQ2 at least 4 times, even tried the f2p version.  I found the game to be the most boring MMO I have ever played.  Sure it has lots of content, just not very interesting content IMO.  The only SOE game I ever got into  was SWG and we all know what they did with that game.  Smedley's idea of a good MMO and mine have a huge chasm between them.

    So I will take a wait and see attitude on EQNext.  All the decent developers they had at SOE have left long ago and I have not been impressed with the ones they have there now.

    Pity you don't find 'content interesting'. I have played every themepark MMO but nothing comes close to RP, lore, classes, content, atmosphere, AA progression, Housing etc. I mean i can make a huge list and go on and on.

    I am completely burned out on EQ2 becaus i played it way too much. But i still think about it and once i meet my goals in GW2 i am going back to EQ2 for good. Best themepark MMO ever made (atleast for me it is)

  • dariuszpdariuszp PrzeworskPosts: 182Member
    Originally posted by Ripostethis
    Not enough funding to make it a big theme park mmo like Everquest 2 was. Will be something like GW2 , sounds like it will suck and be boring if you are into PVE, but will be based on pvp.

    GW2 is not a sandbox mate. At least TRY to understand what you are talking about.

  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member

    GW2 is a "Carnival". A bunch of minigames and the most kid glove PVP I have ever seen short of not having any at all.

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  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member

    Just a thought, if one can destroy terrain, it would be reasonable to assume that the opposite is possible.

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  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by pvpirl

    Just a thought, if one can destroy terrain, it would be reasonable to assume that the opposite is possible.

     that was my thoughts as well. Need 2 more earth mages to build a mountain.

    also take a look at this snippet fro the 2012 live:

    "MMO means something now, and it means the same thing to everybody because it's the same game. EverQuest, WoW, SWTOR all use the same core loot gameplay, which is kill stuff, get reward, get loot, level up. Very few games have broken out of that mold. One or two have. EVE Online is a great example; it's not standard level-based gameplay, although I'm not saying we're going to a big skill-based system."

    would this suggest to you that eq next will NOT be  "kill stuff, get reward, get loot, level up" game. I wonder what they have in mind...Faction system anyone????

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  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member

    With alot of these cool concepts being mentioned with magic in mind, I hope prospective melee player such as myself, don't get the shaft in terms of world interaction.

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  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Rimmersman
    Anyone who thinks EQNext is going to be built with PvP at the forefront is dreaming. Yeah it will have a great PvP system but EQ has always and will always be a PVE mmo at it's core.

    This ^

     

    I've been laughing my ass off with this thread and all the pvp dudes speculating and thinking of their perfect little PVP mmo.

    EQ never has and never will be designed with PVP as a major focus.  Just because Smed is a fan of EVE doesn't mean that he is talking about PVP.  What is talking about is the emergent gameplay mechanics.  Basically the players making the content so to speak.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • ComafComaf Chicago, ILPosts: 1,154Member Common
    Originally posted by Ripostethis
    Not enough funding to make it a big theme park mmo like Everquest 2 was. Will be something like GW2 , sounds like it will suck and be boring if you are into PVE, but will be based on pvp.

    One thing we all know is that Smedly hasn't much interest in pvp.  Afterthought at best...but hey, I wish them luck.

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  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member

    That is contrary to what Smed has stated his intent was, for whatever that is worth.

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  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    It's not that Smedley is not interested in PVP I think, I mean planetside 2 is "PVP" in a way, it's just that EQ was meant to be PVE from the start. If you look at the James Hall (sp?) video of Everquest, Smedley mentions "UO was PVP so we wanted to do PVE".  

    Anyone thinking EQNext is going to be some PVP game is going to be really disappointed, sure there might be some PVP servers, and even the developers might support PVP but the community itself will enforce PVE and demand PVE when they want, the community will ask for pure PVE servers, or it will not be a successful game. EQ is PVE.

    I don't know what it's like in EQ2 but this is what EQ is like now, it's not just a smaller majority of players that are PVE like in WoW, no EQ is more like a PVE stronghold where 99% of the players are PVE purists.

     

    All these PVE servers are not PVE with PVP battlegrounds or something, no they are 100% pure PVE servers.

     

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    DAoC had the best mix of PvP and PvE to date. EQNext would be stupid not to try to appeal to both audiences. Grinding for new gear has a lot more meaning when you can use that gear on another player.
  • Sora2810Sora2810 New Columbia, PAPosts: 567Member
    Originally posted by DSWBeef
    I will love them if its true. But if it isnt this quote will kill them.

    Same here. This is the guys who did create Vanguard and SWG before maiming them to a pulp; maybe they went back to their roots.

    Played - M59, EQOA, EQ, EQ2, PS, SWG[Favorite], DAoC, UO, RS, MXO, CoH/CoV, TR, FFXI, FoM, WoW, Eve, Rift, SWTOR, TSW.
    Playing - PS2, AoW, GW2

This discussion has been closed.