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I kind of get where the old people's mentality of "it used to be good back in the day, not hese new fangled things kids have now" comes from.
It's happening right before my eyes.
P.S.: gaming since the '80s and no, it wasn't better back then. It was just new.
EQ was fun for 3 weeks. I played it every night but I finally was tired of looking for groups and waiting for groups to have room.
Daoc really started to grow on me as I played it much longer.
When wow came the new stuff was, world pvp and more skills and instances. Other than that I had already seen it all before.
And every new mmo is just more of the same. It's the genre. Sometimes it helps to try something new that is not an mmo.
Originally posted by rastapastor Originally posted by Vardahoth Originally posted by rastapastor I've played games back then, i play games now and i don't find old games any harder than now... I really don't understand this "ooo im an old school player and im mega pro, You, nowdays gamers, all suck!", it's bullshit. Games weren't harder 10-20 years ago, it's just nostalgia, u miss those old days, cuz u were young or u met some ppl (ye, gamers community sucks nowdays. U meet "old school" idiots who thinks they ate all brains and who have delusions that they are the most skilled players of all, or You meet nowdays trolls, who destroys enjoyment by their behaviour and i can agree here) or for whatever reason. I've been playing games for over 20 years.
The only thing I can agree with here is the community of gamers has changed for the worse because:
#1 mmorpgs and the internet are much more widely used now, and any idiot is playing them now.
#2 They have dumbed down games so idiots and trolls don't have any problem playing them.
As far as the games not getting any easier, this is sorely mistaken. I will explain what lineage 2 used to be like vs what it is now:
#1 teleporting used to cost too much gold, so people ran the distances between towns instead of teleporting (alot can and did happen during this time).
#2 No raidbosses were instanced. Most raid bosses took 2 full 9man parties to kill (and most of the time people still died). The end game raidbosses spawned once a week (random time with 16 hour window from the time it was killed), and because of the pvp, it would require not just a clan, but a coordination of an alliance (usually around 100+ players) to kill it. If there was no opposition, I would say the raid boss would take about 45 players to kill. This means it gave clans you (or someone in your group) at war with could ambush you. Also when they did the raidboss spawn events outside of town people were dropping their gear (which took a good 4-6 months to get a full set).
Now instead, all the end-game raid bosses are instanced and some take as much as a single party to kill.
#3 Leveling used to be grinding off of monsters and not quest-exp given. There were repeatable quests you could take to get extra exp and gold off the spot you were grinding, but the majority of your exp/gold came from grinding the same level mobs for months (sometimes years even). Not only that, but it required you to party up with people because you couldn't do it by yourself.
Now they have instanced daily quests that get you to 99 easy and can be solo'd.
#4 If you died to a monster you had a chance of dropping 1/5 items/gear. This made everyone in your party pay attention to what they were doing. If 1 person didn't do their job, the whole party would suffer for it (and usually kos the idiot that made them loose gear if they couldn't get back in time to retrieve it). People also lost a good chunk of exp that without a bishop willing to spend 30+mins to get to where you are and give you a high level rez, or buying a brez which was only obtained through special currency that took about 2 days to farm for, you would find yourself spending a good 4+ hours farming the exp back you lost.
Now you no longer loose items/gear dieing to monsters. Now clans have a passive buff called clan luck that gives 50% exp back upon death, mixed with clanhall rez (also wasn't offered before) will give another 50% (40% if stacked with 50% buff) exp back upon death loosing up to a maximum of 0.02% per death (takes about 5 minutes to get back).
I'll stop right here unless you want me to give more examples.
I remember quitting WoW during vanilla for thinking that was too easy (even with 40man raids). I've only heard they dropped raids to like 10 people. Theres a non-L2 example for ya.
I will admit there is a bit of nostalgia to myself missing the "good ol days". But mostly I miss leveling, pvping, reputation, status, and relationships you held in game used to mean something. Now with this "everybody wins a trophy" gameplay it has made the level of competition and gameplay meaningless to me.
P.S. I did something that I haven't done in a long time. FFIV remake just came out for nintendo ds. I decided to give it a shot and I must say I still enjoyed it all the way to the end. Most the games that came out after ps2 I haven't been able to finish as they have just been so damn dull to me. What did I like so much about FFIV? The story line, and character buildup was amazing. They even did a good job for the voice acting. It just seemed to be a game more for adults than this pokemon crap.
1. It's not hard to travel between cities...it's just time sinking. It's tricky only when u have ffa pvp
2. Bosses weren't hard, they just had bazilion milions hp to burn down.
3. It's not hard, it's just boring, time sinking not challenging grindfest.
4. Here i can agree, chance to loose item after death was pretty cool, u had to focus 120% on what u do, so here i agree with You.
Hard content isn't boring grind to me. For PvE content, its just how bosses are designed, how deep and hard the mechanics are etc...For over 20 years i haven't seen any challenging or hard boss mechanic. Most so called "hard" bosses are just a gear check (u can't kill boss if i haven't enough gear to do required dps, healing or tanking), but when u get the gear, bosses are easy as...fuck?
I've played EQ, WoW, DAoC, SWG and some new MMOs, AoC, RIFT, SW: TOR, GW2. I personaly don't want to come back to old grind days, cuz gaming took a loot of time from my life, now i can casually jump in, have fun with events, dungs for 2 hours and jump off to my family, work etc . In GW2 for instance i'm not far behind ppl that put 32432432423423423453234234 hours into game, it's just about my skill and how FAST I LEARN the mechanics, proffesions etc. It's not how LONG I GRIND for particular item that gives me +20 to e-peen stat and allows me to encounter particular mob.
Also think, back then ppl were generaly pretty bad at gaming MMOs were new etc, ppl have learned a lot over time and are learning now all the time, they know how to play now and for developers it's hard to make very very very hard mechanics, cuz ppl saw mostly all. Ofc they can do gear check boss, but it's rather lame
[b] I respect[/b] Your opionion, but for me personaly, gaming wasn't hard at all, it was just time sinking back then
1. You pretty much answered the statement yourself. Trust me when I say 90% of the time you couldn't get from 1 town to the other without being forced into pvp.
2. When tanks lost agro on bosses, they would 1shot robe users and 2-3shot archers/daggers/leather wearers. If you didn't have a healer clearing cc or healing by the second, it would be a party wipe. If you didn't have a tank spamming hate agro after loosing agro, a lot of people died. What made it most challanging is since it was out in the open, your enemies could come and pk you and finish the raid boss to take the loot for themselves. This required you to put up spies in port-in spots, as well as have a party ready to pvp.
3. For me the challange of the grind was trying to put in 14-20 hours a day to get that 1-2% and having to do it with 8 other players. Then you run into pvp a lot (especially if you are at one of the best exp spots in the game), which can set you back days. As I said before now leveling to cap can be done in 1 week and by yourself (in Tera I did it in 6 days after release without a single party, and I saw some 3man parties do it in 2 days).
The coordination it took to win sieges in L2 was good also. I remember being in a clan where we went to a seige with 1 to 6 odds and still came out on top. Gear was equal leveled and the only reason we won was because we had a party kite/hit a few of them from the side, while we horse shoe'd the gate entrance and the tank would aoe-hate everyone who came through while I was the dd targeter for the party to take down the target. Targets dropped so fast because of our focus fire, and I was good enough to switch targets in under a second before my current target dropped. This was before the movie 300 came out, so you can't say we copied cated that technique, but the fact you can use gorilla warfare tactics to win a battle (and even wars) was amazing.
By end game L2, there wasn't anyone who was generally bad at gaming on it. Why? because in order to hit end game you were forced to put 6 months - 2 years of playtime into that 1 character alone (assuming you didn't bot or ebay the account). Even idiots who spend that much time on a character never failed to do the simplist of tasks.
If L2 was still in the c3 stage, I would still be playing it to this day. I just don't like the direction they took the game and most of the mmo mainstream for that matter. For a more detailed description, look here:
Thinking back, I agree with you that it would suck to have to start all over. This is why I'm always saying, "man I really wish they didn't dumb down the game so much so I wouldn't have to find a new game to start over in." This is why I am very sceptical of trying out a new game to invest my time into.
http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034.............Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW" (brought to you by pokeman).