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Smedley: "EverQuest Next will be the world's largest sandbox-style MMO ever made"

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  • VorthanionVorthanion Laguna Vista, TXPosts: 2,119Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by rungard
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by rungard
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    If the raids thing means locking the best stuff and progression behind that content then that's enough to give the game a pass.  We already have a whole stew pot full of raiding games.

     I am hoping they do the right thing and make the raiding game a guild level game as it should be and not a personal level game.

    for instance rather than give out sword x for player x as a reward for beating raid x, they give out item x which the whole guild can utilize, whether they raid or not. Building a guild forge, guild teleporters, guild communication, guild halls.

    community activity and community rewards.

    image

    If that's an option to achieve the item then that's fine.  If rewards are locked behind a single restrictive play activity like that then it is still a problem.

     How is it a problem exactly. Im not saying that every aspect of a guild requires a raid, what i am saying is that it is far preferable to make the rewards for raiding match the level of organization for the activity.

    you may not like raiding, but you might be more inclined to participate when your trying to get something that improves your whole guild in the process. I personally have no time for raiding in its current form because it fosters eliteism and greed and those arent things im interested in.

    a teleporter for the guildhall is something im interested in and thus i would participate in that raid for sure.

     

    image

     

    Maybe it's an issue where other playstyles want rewards too, not just raiders or even guild raiders?  Did that ever occur to you?  If you lock up all the high end rewards, be they components or guild rewards, you are denying any other kind of playstyle / guild access to those rewards, just like they currently do in every raiding game to date.

    image
  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    There are a couple of issues here.

    EQ next will have raiding in some form. Whether that is traditional raiding or worldmob raids or something else is unknown. Traditionally eq style raids made all the best items in the game raid items. If this turns out to be the case, given the fact that the game will also have pvp and crafting in some form i would call it a game limiting factor, since you would need raid gear to compete in pvp and crafting would largely be useless (raidgear by its nature doesnt wear out, its too hard to get...).

    Now if EQN raiding gave out guild based rewards instead, they would have an impact on your guild, but they would not have an impact on pvp since the best weapons and armors would come from crafting and dungeons, which everyone would have access to. Since this is a sandbox game, crafting will probabally have a larger infleuence and thus crafting would not be affected either.

    I am not a raider myself, but i do concede that raiders have a right to content as much as anyone else, and i think that it only makes sense that they be offered something interesting for their efforts. I am not saying every guild item has to come from a raid, but there must be some level of reward that would make that activity worthwhile. You cant give them the best equipment because it would destroy the game, so you have to concede something.

    in order for a true sandbox to succeed all playstyles have to make a few consessions. Raiders concede the personal rewards, and non raiders concede the best guild rewards. Similarly hardcore pvpers have to concede FFa and full loot, and hardcore pvers have to concede a little pvp in the game. Thats what it takes to have it all.

    As far as the guild rewards are concerned the average player isnt giving up much, and theres no reason why you cant hire a raiding guild to help you or get the items for you, if you choose not to do that content. Beyond that i think the odd raid would actually be a good community building exercise as long as the reward was something the whole guild could find to be useful. Perhaps the raid reward has the best class of teleporter, but lesser range teleporters might be achievale from other avenues, and of course there is always the possibility of going out and pvping someone elses teleporter.

     

     

  • ImixZinzImixZinz frazier park, CAPosts: 553Member
    Originally posted by rungard

    There are a couple of issues here.

    EQ next will have raiding in some form. Whether that is traditional raiding or worldmob raids or something else is unknown. Traditionally eq style raids made all the best items in the game raid items. If this turns out to be the case, given the fact that the game will also have pvp and crafting in some form i would call it a game limiting factor, since you would need raid gear to compete in pvp and crafting would largely be useless (raidgear by its nature doesnt wear out, its too hard to get...).

    Now if EQN raiding gave out guild based rewards instead, they would have an impact on your guild, but they would not have an impact on pvp since the best weapons and armors would come from crafting and dungeons, which everyone would have access to. Since this is a sandbox game, crafting will probabally have a larger infleuence and thus crafting would not be affected either.

    I am not a raider myself, but i do concede that raiders have a right to content as much as anyone else, and i think that it only makes sense that they be offered something interesting for their efforts. I am not saying every guild item has to come from a raid, but there must be some level of reward that would make that activity worthwhile. You cant give them the best equipment because it would destroy the game, so you have to concede something.

    in order for a true sandbox to succeed all playstyles have to make a few consessions. Raiders concede the personal rewards, and non raiders concede the best guild rewards. Similarly hardcore pvpers have to concede FFa and full loot, and hardcore pvers have to concede a little pvp in the game. Thats what it takes to have it all.

    As far as the guild rewards are concerned the average player isnt giving up much, and theres no reason why you cant hire a raiding guild to help you or get the items for you, if you choose not to do that content. Beyond that i think the odd raid would actually be a good community building exercise as long as the reward was something the whole guild could find to be useful. Perhaps the raid reward has the best class of teleporter, but lesser range teleporters might be achievale from other avenues, and of course there is always the possibility of going out and pvping someone elses teleporter.

     

     

     

     

    Nobody is going to leave WoW to PvE and Raid in another game, its not happening, ever, and if they do they go right back to WoW after the first month. They've already discussed that they aren't going to stick to the PvE/Raid content standard that EQ and WoW have right now, it would be foolish to think anyone wants to give up 7 years of MMO progress to repeat the same thing in a different title. 

    "Raiders" as you call people, or anybody not looking for something drastically different than what is currently offered have no stake in the success of a new MMO and should not even be considered let aloned catered to.

    So stop Idealizing what current MMO's offer as the only form of content.

    EQN was in development.... Suddenly when PS2 is annouced and in development, EQN is scrapped and being remade using PS2's engine.... If you want to see the TYPE of content EQN will probably offer then look at Planetside, look at territory control, recource management, player initated missions, cert grinding, RMT skin's etc. Use those mechanics that we know are in place and emphasis their idea of "sandbox content" and expand upon them.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by ImixZinz
    Originally posted by rungard

    There are a couple of issues here.

    EQ next will have raiding in some form. Whether that is traditional raiding or worldmob raids or something else is unknown. Traditionally eq style raids made all the best items in the game raid items. If this turns out to be the case, given the fact that the game will also have pvp and crafting in some form i would call it a game limiting factor, since you would need raid gear to compete in pvp and crafting would largely be useless (raidgear by its nature doesnt wear out, its too hard to get...).

    Now if EQN raiding gave out guild based rewards instead, they would have an impact on your guild, but they would not have an impact on pvp since the best weapons and armors would come from crafting and dungeons, which everyone would have access to. Since this is a sandbox game, crafting will probabally have a larger infleuence and thus crafting would not be affected either.

    I am not a raider myself, but i do concede that raiders have a right to content as much as anyone else, and i think that it only makes sense that they be offered something interesting for their efforts. I am not saying every guild item has to come from a raid, but there must be some level of reward that would make that activity worthwhile. You cant give them the best equipment because it would destroy the game, so you have to concede something.

    in order for a true sandbox to succeed all playstyles have to make a few consessions. Raiders concede the personal rewards, and non raiders concede the best guild rewards. Similarly hardcore pvpers have to concede FFa and full loot, and hardcore pvers have to concede a little pvp in the game. Thats what it takes to have it all.

    As far as the guild rewards are concerned the average player isnt giving up much, and theres no reason why you cant hire a raiding guild to help you or get the items for you, if you choose not to do that content. Beyond that i think the odd raid would actually be a good community building exercise as long as the reward was something the whole guild could find to be useful. Perhaps the raid reward has the best class of teleporter, but lesser range teleporters might be achievale from other avenues, and of course there is always the possibility of going out and pvping someone elses teleporter.

     

     

     

     

    Nobody is going to leave WoW to PvE and Raid in another game, its not happening, ever, and if they do they go right back to WoW after the first month. They've already discussed that they aren't going to stick to the PvE/Raid content standard that EQ and WoW have right now, it would be foolish to think anyone wants to give up 7 years of MMO progress to repeat the same thing in a different title. 

    "Raiders" as you call people, or anybody not looking for something drastically different than what is currently offered have no stake in the success of a new MMO and should not even be considered let aloned catered to.

    So stop Idealizing what current MMO's offer as the only form of content.

    EQN was in development.... Suddenly when PS2 is annouced and in development, EQN is scrapped and being remade using PS2's engine.... If you want to see the TYPE of content EQN will probably offer then look at Planetside, look at territory control, recource management, player initated missions, cert grinding, RMT skin's etc. Use those mechanics that we know are in place and emphasis their idea of "sandbox content" and expand upon them.

     the man said himself there would be raid content. He never mentioned what form it would be in.

  • sanshi44sanshi44 BrisbanePosts: 1,088Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    EQ was a themepark through and through.  Linear class design, every warrior was the same, every monk, every druid... Completely loot driven.  Zones catering to specific levels (yes there were some mobs in each zone that were harder but the zone itself was all approximately the same level).  Llimted crafting completely outdone by loot and of course absolutely no way to impact/shape/own the world.

    EQ was a complete themepark.

    What is or what isnt a themepark/sandbox all comes down to the individual, for me EQ was neither sandbox or themepark.

    For me themeparks are on the rail and hold ur hand - which EQ was definetly not this is what i see as the key factor of a themepark game .

    For me Sandbox allow you can influence the world itself build cities edit terrain and all that good stuff and lots of xploration and hidden things.

    It just means that Everquest was one of the first Theme Park games, Sandbox game mechanics are totally different, its not really a matter of opinion, Sandbox games do not have levels, or 'classes' and neither do the mobs etc that you encounter in the wilderness.image

    Arrr but sandbox uses a skil system which EQ also had aswell if you remember correctly there was a skill that lvled for every skill/spell you used. 1h sword skill the higher it was the more accurate and more dmg you did with swing, Evocation skill reduced the amount of fizzles and increased effectiveness of the spell that used the Evocation skill. Meditation skill the higher it was the faster your mana regenerated, Some were class only based skill other everyone got. EQ has alot of sandbox element but it also has alot of themepark it is a theme of its own, its neither completly sandbox and its neither a complete themepark.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by sanshi44
    Originally posted by VengeSunsoar

    EQ was a themepark through and through.  Linear class design, every warrior was the same, every monk, every druid... Completely loot driven.  Zones catering to specific levels (yes there were some mobs in each zone that were harder but the zone itself was all approximately the same level).  Llimted crafting completely outdone by loot and of course absolutely no way to impact/shape/own the world.

    EQ was a complete themepark.

    What is or what isnt a themepark/sandbox all comes down to the individual, for me EQ was neither sandbox or themepark.

    For me themeparks are on the rail and hold ur hand - which EQ was definetly not this is what i see as the key factor of a themepark game .

    For me Sandbox allow you can influence the world itself build cities edit terrain and all that good stuff and lots of xploration and hidden things.

    It just means that Everquest was one of the first Theme Park games, Sandbox game mechanics are totally different, its not really a matter of opinion, Sandbox games do not have levels, or 'classes' and neither do the mobs etc that you encounter in the wilderness.image

    Arrr but sandbox uses a skil system which EQ also had aswell if you remember correctly there was a skill that lvled for every skill/spell you used. 1h sword skill the higher it was the more accurate and more dmg you did with swing, Evocation skill reduced the amount of fizzles and increased effectiveness of the spell that used the Evocation skill. Meditation skill the higher it was the faster your mana regenerated, Some were class only based skill other everyone got. EQ has alot of sandbox element but it also has alot of themepark it is a theme of its own, its neither completly sandbox and its neither a complete themepark.

     This is accurate. I dont agree than you cant use a class system in a sandbox, but eq certainly has a skill based system underneath its levelling system. eq had soo much fun stuff that no one talks about. That stuff was the magic. Not the levels and not the raids. Weve seen what magic is created from levels and raids.

    lets see what the other magic can do.

    image

     

  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member


    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Exactly, you can't have progression pve in a sandbox, its the opposite of sandbox.EQ was a themeparkEQ2 was a themeparkEQ fans love progression pve.Therefore EQN will have progression pve and will be a themepark. Although it may have some sandbox elements around crafting / housing / farming / Terra forming etc.. the very act of having the Linearality of a progression pve endgame (well endgame full stop) will make it not a sandbox.

    We shall see, but I wouldn't be so quick to write it off.

    Non-stanced dungeons and forced leveling via question would be enough of a step in the right direction for me to be vaguely happy.

    image

  • koboldfodderkoboldfodder Danbury, DEPosts: 390Member Uncommon
    The fact that this thread is 50 something pages long pretty much shows the interest in EQ as well as sandbox type games.
  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member

    how can you tell if there interested in eq and sandboxes? :)

    imageimageimageimageimageimage

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by koboldfodder
    The fact that this thread is 50 something pages long pretty much shows the interest in EQ as well as sandbox type games.

    On this forum though, I don't know if we're a good representation of the current or potential MMO player.

  • pvpirlpvpirl Orlando, FLPosts: 167Member

    I just installed and played EQ2 for the first time. The EQN team better, BETTER, forget any of those design concepts ever happened. And post luclin EQ1 frankly.

    image

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by pvpirl

    I just installed and played EQ2 for the first time. The EQN team better, BETTER, forget any of those design concepts ever happened. And post luclin EQ1 frankly.

     well after having a really good look at planetside 2's systems i have this feeling that the entire eq next gameworld will have a major territory control component to it and aside of starting cities there will be no safezones in the world and the game will be FPS.  

    i have this feeling that there will be frontlines for war and the teams will be as follows. The frontlines will be constant battles but behind the lines it will be relatively safe with guards and patrols.

     

    Good                    Neutral               
     
    Evil                 
     
    Dwarf
    Fae
    Froglok
    Halfling
    High Elf
    Wood Elf

    Barbarian
    Erudite
    Gnome
    Half Elf
    Human
    Kerra
     

    Arasai
    Dark Elf
    Iksar
    Ogre
    Sarnak
    Troll
     
    image
  • WolfmeisterWolfmeister tulsa, OKPosts: 48Member
    given the company and the person quoted, and said history in mmo.... I wouldnt give anything he said two squirts worth of recognition.

    We are the Founding Fathers in this virtual world in which we create. As such it seems we must do what our Founding Fathers had to do.. in order to let our fellow gamers have a fair shake.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,439Member Uncommon
    I've said it before in the thread asking what dev could make a AAA sandbox and I still believe it. SOE is the most likely dev to make the next era of MMOs that return to it's sandbox origin.
  • ForumPvPForumPvP KingstownPosts: 871Member

    Doesnt matter if its true what you said Mr Smea...Smedley,but i give you now  this rare  Phial of Galadriel anyways,you might need it.

    If you can lead MMORPG´s out of Saurons realm or help in the process even tiny bit ,then NGE never happened in my books.

     

     

     

    Let's internet

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Rungard

    I doubt Sony would launch a second rvr game, why would they want more competition, when ps2 will already have competition from gw2 & teso as a rvr game and firefall as a sci-fi fps mmo
  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Rungard

    I doubt Sony would launch a second rvr game, why would they want more competition, when ps2 will already have competition from gw2 & teso as a rvr game and firefall as a sci-fi fps mmo

     Free assets i would imagine. Im sure theyll reuse anything thats useful since they are both made with the same engine. If its not rvr im sure it will be world pvp probabally half safe zones

    have you seen those maps? each one is 64 square kilometers and there is three. Regardless of how it goes, i think we have alot of goodness coming our way.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member

    I watched it, he spent 2 months in UO preparing to steal everything from another person just to get back at him, that's griefing for me.

     

  • BaselineBaseline Sloan, NYPosts: 503Member
    Smedley is trying to redeem himself for SWG's Sandbox-to-Themepark blunder, where a great game with a great community turned into another run-of-the-mill cash grab.
  • herculeshercules lancashire,blackpoolPosts: 4,791Member Uncommon

    Dunno  if this has been posted already but as we all suspected the failure of swtor was the main reason for soe to take a new direction in the design

    http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/10/23/sony-online-everquest-next-design/

  • Rider071Rider071 Utica, NYPosts: 318Member
    Originally posted by rungard
    Originally posted by pvpirl

    I just installed and played EQ2 for the first time. The EQN team better, BETTER, forget any of those design concepts ever happened. And post luclin EQ1 frankly.

     well after having a really good look at planetside 2's systems i have this feeling that the entire eq next gameworld will have a major territory control component to it and aside of starting cities there will be no safezones in the world and the game will be FPS.  

    i have this feeling that there will be frontlines for war and the teams will be as follows. The frontlines will be constant battles but behind the lines it will be relatively safe with guards and patrols.

     

    Good                    Neutral               
     
    Evil                 
     
    Dwarf
    Fae
    Froglok
    Halfling
    High Elf
    Wood Elf

    Barbarian
    Erudite
    Gnome
    Half Elf
    Human
    Kerra
     

    Arasai
    Dark Elf
    Iksar
    Ogre
    Sarnak
    Troll
     
    image

    actually the diety based pvp server from eq1 way back would be a more logical step and it's ruleset was pretty good and already written, wouldn't be too hard to adapt it and not have to change the world and it's lore to fit some weird one race per team thing. the three teams were made up of goodies (tunare, marr, etc..), newts (agnostics, sol ro, bristlebane, etc..), and evils (cazic, inno, bertox, etc..). 

    Was by far the best eq experience I ever had. didn't think they would end the server as it was the most popular pvp server by far, and the rewards for killing other players were interesting and just beginning to get creative when it was all pulled.

  • asmkm22asmkm22 Anchorage, AKPosts: 1,788Member
    SOE has a history of proclaiming their latest games are going to be the biggest/best/greatest <insert genre> ever released.  I remember he was dancing to that tune back when EQ2 was coming out, talking about how revolutionary it was going to be.  Instead, we just got "/pizza".

    You make me like charity

  • Rider071Rider071 Utica, NYPosts: 318Member

    In my perfect game, Smed mixes the lore and game of the EQ1 diety pvp server with the original SWG game, when we could 'bring a knife to a gunfight'.

    SWG had by far the best cities, crafting, and population of any game, the wars were intense and hard fought. Put that in Norrath and I believe you have an epic game.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    SOE has a history of proclaiming their latest games are going to be the biggest/best/greatest ever released.  I remember he was dancing to that tune back when EQ2 was coming out, talking about how revolutionary it was going to be.  Instead, we just got "/pizza".

    The best pizza i ever had. EQ2 is even today is an amazing game. Dwarfs every other PVE MMO in content and features.

This discussion has been closed.