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Can anyone speak to the extent UW will be a "sandbox"?

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  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member

    OP, Darkfall was a sandbox, Unholy Wars will no doubt be a sandbox as well. If you are worried about it being a themepark, put those worries aside. It just happens to have pvp as it's central theme.

     

    Anyone telling you it is/was a themepark/themepark hyrbid is either trolling, on crack or has never actually played it for more than five minutes.

     

    I've underlined that because it is quite important, the last thread on the sunject was full of the most insane comments you could possible imagine. People do love to try and bash/troll this franchise, even if it means them coming out with posts which makes them look like complete and utter fkwits. Christ there is already someone in this thread calling it an "arena game". It really beggars belief.

     

    That said, how much "sand" is in that box is limited (or at least was in the original). It has a healthy exploration, crafting, decentralized economy and player meta role systems. But it is doesn't have the amount of "sand" a UO did, and it is heavily pvp centric.

     

    So if you are looing for an open, sandbox which has a heavy emphasis on pvp systems. Then it is probably worth a go 9I would wait before jumping on ship to see if they actually deliver mind you). If you are looking for a new UO with all of it's sand and can't stand the thought of getting involved in pvp, then give it a miss.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Krashner

     Darkfall is more of an arena pvp game than it is sandbox. I think we can all agree that EVE is currently the best current sandbox available. Yet when people want some of the systems that make EVE so great to be included in Darkfall they're called carebears and told to go back to wow. Then these same people turn around and talk about how superior they're sandbox is since it's "hardcore".

     A game CANNOT be sandbox if it only caters to one type of player, in darkfall that's the pvper. EVE lets people be as hardcore or as carebear as they want to be with sector security. You can still pvp anywhere, but in high sec space they're more extreme consequences where as in null sec they're are pretty much none. Darkfall needs npc guards that attack reds on sight near places that would be high sec, such as starter cities.

     Ultimately you want the carebears in game to craft and gather resources and occasionally help when you go to war so that your army has everything it needs for the fighters to keep fighting. Unfortunately the Darkfall community has a pretty low opinion of carebears and will actively try and run them off. The hardcore communtiy is Darkfall's own worst enemy because they keep the game boring and stagnant.

    Except it isn't an arena game at all..

     

    The idea that NPC protection strength somehow = sandbox is a good one. Well no, it's a shocking one in fairness.

     

    Furthermore the idea that a game has to cater to the "oooh I never ever want to be killed in pvp by a bad old pvper" crowd in order to qualify as a sandbox is somewhat amusing.

     

    There are self confessed "carebears" on this forum saying they are interested in the game, regardless as to the fact they might get ganked from time to time. Why? Because amazingly enough not every pve certric player has to run around immune to pvp. Their concern is that the non pvp systems are of good enough quality and that the game is open and free. Not that they may be jumped from time to time.

     

    The big question is will that non pvp content have enough quality for them, not sure it did in the previous incarnation and only time will tell if it does in this one.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • KrashnerKrashner Noneyabidness, INPosts: 137Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner

     Darkfall is more of an arena pvp game than it is sandbox. I think we can all agree that EVE is currently the best current sandbox available. Yet when people want some of the systems that make EVE so great to be included in Darkfall they're called carebears and told to go back to wow. Then these same people turn around and talk about how superior they're sandbox is since it's "hardcore".

     A game CANNOT be sandbox if it only caters to one type of player, in darkfall that's the pvper. EVE lets people be as hardcore or as carebear as they want to be with sector security. You can still pvp anywhere, but in high sec space they're more extreme consequences where as in null sec they're are pretty much none. Darkfall needs npc guards that attack reds on sight near places that would be high sec, such as starter cities.

     Ultimately you want the carebears in game to craft and gather resources and occasionally help when you go to war so that your army has everything it needs for the fighters to keep fighting. Unfortunately the Darkfall community has a pretty low opinion of carebears and will actively try and run them off. The hardcore communtiy is Darkfall's own worst enemy because they keep the game boring and stagnant.

    Except it isn't an arena game at all and you can spend your time just pve'ing and crafting all day long if you want.

     

    The idea that NPC protection strength somehow = sandbox is a good one. Well no, it's a shocking one in fairness.

    And yet Darkfall is being remade and EVE is still going strong. Your kind of mentality is what keeps Darkfall from being a great game. Darkfall is an arena game with no depth, you macro your skills up and mindlessly pvp. Like I said earlier, no matter what you want to do in game you have to be prepared to pvp. The game only caters to one group of players and it can never be very successful. According to your sig you've played EVE so it's a shame that you can't understand why Darkfall needs to be more like it. There's a reason EVE has 300k+ players and Darkfall has what 20k - 40k at best?

    edit: I'm also really curious as to how magic lightning death towers are better than npc guards, thats what's shocking.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

    And yet Darkfall is being remade and EVE is still going strong. Your kind of mentality is what keeps Darkfall from being a great game. Darkfall is an arena game with no depth, you macro your skills up and mindlessly pvp. Like I said earlier, no matter what you want to do in game you have to be prepared to pvp. The game only caters to one group of players and it can never be very successful. According to your sig you've played EVE so it's a shame that you can't understand why Darkfall needs to be more like it. There's a reason EVE has 300k+ players and Darkfall has what 20k - 40k at best?

    Yeah your right, the fact that Darkfall has less subs than EVE must totally be down to the fact that i'm pointing out your arguments make no sense...

     

    Your also right, sub numbers really dictate whether something is a sandbox or not.

     

    EVE should be more like WoW bro, EVE has what like 300k players and WoW has what 9m? EVE should totally ditch the pvp, go to a class based system and drop the whole ship as avatar thing. The trouble with EVE is it doesn't have enough safety, I mean you can still get killed by pvp anywhere!!! The other guy may die but your dead, you have to be ready to be involved in pvp at any time, who the fk wants that. EVE is then clearly a pvp arena game and not a sandbox, it only appeals to the pvpers.

     

    Your argument is utterly ridiculous.

     

    1. Darkfall is an open world sandbox, not an arena. You seem to be confused on the definitions.

    2. Darkfall should be more like EVE if it wants to be more like EVE, who said it did?

    3. Darkfall caters to different player types, it doesn't cater to the "oh I don't want any pvp ever!!!" crowd. Oh noes! Amazingly some pvers actually don't mind the threat of the occasional negative player encounter. The issue these players have with the game is that it is questionable as to whether or not the quality of the non pvp content (hell the quality of the over all game) is good enough.

     

    EDIT: who said the towers where "better"? The simple fact is your premise that player safety = sandbox is a joke.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • KrashnerKrashner Noneyabidness, INPosts: 137Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

    And yet Darkfall is being remade and EVE is still going strong. Your kind of mentality is what keeps Darkfall from being a great game. Darkfall is an arena game with no depth, you macro your skills up and mindlessly pvp. Like I said earlier, no matter what you want to do in game you have to be prepared to pvp. The game only caters to one group of players and it can never be very successful. According to your sig you've played EVE so it's a shame that you can't understand why Darkfall needs to be more like it. There's a reason EVE has 300k+ players and Darkfall has what 20k - 40k at best?

    Yeah your right, the fact that Darkfall has less subs than EVE must totally be down to the fact that i'm pointing out your arguments make no sense...

     

    Your also right, sub numbers really dictate whether something is a sandbox or not.

     

    EVE should be more like WoW bro, EVE has what like 300k players and WoW has what 9m? EVE should totally ditch the pvp, go to a class based system and drop the whole ship as avatar thing. The trouble with EVE is it doesn't have enough safety, I mean you can still get killed by pvp anywhere!!! The other guy may die but your dead, you have to be ready to be involved in pvp at any time, who the fk wants that. EVE is then clearly a pvp arena game and not a sandbox, it only appeals to the pvpers.

     

    Your argument is utterly ridiculous.

     

    1. Darkfall is an open world sandbox, not an arena. You seem to be confused on the definitions.

    2. Darkfall should be more like EVE if it wants to be more like EVE, who said it did?

    3. Darkfall caters to different player types, it doesn't cater to the "oh I don't want any pvp ever!!!" crowd. Oh noes! Amazingly some pvers actually don't mind the threat of the occasional negative player encounter. The issue these players have with the game is that it is questionable as to whether or not the quality of the non pvp content (hell the quality of the over all game) is good enough.

     

    EDIT: who said the towers where "better"? The simple fact is your premise that player safety = sandbox is a joke.

    You really need to ditch the attitude buddy. I said in order for Darkfall to be a better sandbox it should be more like EVE, which happens to currently be the best sandbox. Darkfall is an open world arena, you're the one who is confused. Whats you're solution for player protection? No towers and no guards? the game would be utter chaos and even more of an arena then it already is. Eve security is just right, you CAN be killed anywhere, but in all the time i've played I've NEVER been killed in 1.0 space. Anyways, I'm done arguing with you since your posts have devolved into profanity and insults.

    If you can't see the inherit flaws in Darkfall's design, fine I sincerly hope you have fun playing it, but you say my ideas are ridiculous without mentioning any of your own yet you agree the game has flaws. That's whats called a straw man arguement, you're trying to distort my side of the arguement without even having a side of your own, other than saying "the game is fine as it is, but its broken and needs to be fixed."

  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 350Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

    And yet Darkfall is being remade and EVE is still going strong. Your kind of mentality is what keeps Darkfall from being a great game. Darkfall is an arena game with no depth, you macro your skills up and mindlessly pvp. Like I said earlier, no matter what you want to do in game you have to be prepared to pvp. The game only caters to one group of players and it can never be very successful. According to your sig you've played EVE so it's a shame that you can't understand why Darkfall needs to be more like it. There's a reason EVE has 300k+ players and Darkfall has what 20k - 40k at best?

    Yeah your right, the fact that Darkfall has less subs than EVE must totally be down to the fact that i'm pointing out your arguments make no sense...

     

    Your also right, sub numbers really dictate whether something is a sandbox or not.

     

    EVE should be more like WoW bro, EVE has what like 300k players and WoW has what 9m? EVE should totally ditch the pvp, go to a class based system and drop the whole ship as avatar thing. The trouble with EVE is it doesn't have enough safety, I mean you can still get killed by pvp anywhere!!! The other guy may die but your dead, you have to be ready to be involved in pvp at any time, who the fk wants that. EVE is then clearly a pvp arena game and not a sandbox, it only appeals to the pvpers.

     

    Your argument is utterly ridiculous.

     

    1. Darkfall is an open world sandbox, not an arena. You seem to be confused on the definitions.

    2. Darkfall should be more like EVE if it wants to be more like EVE, who said it did?

    3. Darkfall caters to different player types, it doesn't cater to the "oh I don't want any pvp ever!!!" crowd. Oh noes! Amazingly some pvers actually don't mind the threat of the occasional negative player encounter. The issue these players have with the game is that it is questionable as to whether or not the quality of the non pvp content (hell the quality of the over all game) is good enough.

     

    EDIT: who said the towers where "better"? The simple fact is your premise that player safety = sandbox is a joke.

    you make good posts, but when ur precious are topic they arent as good.  AV added some fluff here and there but the core mechanics and the attitude of the community is the same. u know the definiton of insanity right?

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

     

    You really need to ditch the attitude buddy. I said in order for Darkfall to be a better sandbox it should be more like EVE, which happens to currently be the best sandbox. Darkfall is an open world arena, you're the one who is confused. Whats you're solution for player protection? No towers and no guards? the game would be utter chaos and even more of an arena then it already is. Eve security is just right, you CAN be killed anywhere, but in all the time i've played I've NEVER been killed in 1.0 space. Anyways, I'm done arguing with you since your posts have devolved into profanity and insults.

    If you can't see the inherit flaws in Darkfall's design, fine I sincerly hope you have fun playing it, but you say my ideas are ridiculous without mentioning any of your own yet you agree the game has flaws. That's whats called a straw man arguement, you're trying to distort my side of the arguement without even having a side of your own, other than saying "the game is fine as it is, but its broken and needs to be fixed."

    You're bringing up strawman and yet that is exactly what you are doing..

     

    The fact that I think your argument is wrong does not mean that I cannot "see the flaws" in Darkfall.

     When did I suggest removing protection?

    It being heavily pvp focused does not make it an "arena".

     

     

    The game had major issues which limited it's playerbase. The game could do with more fleshed out systems.

     

    Low quality product.

    Massive power disparities due to an inordinate grind which HAD to be done in order to be combat ready.

    An OTT magic/ray system.

    Terrible UI.

    PVE content which, whilst present, was not actually that well fleshed out.

    Little to no "new player friendliness" and no that doesn't mean whacking in massive "safe zones".

     

    Improve upon the non pvp "content".

    Sort the UI.

    Remove the bugs and exploits.

    Add in tutorials.

    Remove the required grind.

    Improve upon the overall "quality".

     

    Personally I would add npcs instead of towers, but it would be nowhere near like the level offered in EVE, because whilst a sandbox, Darkfall is still trying to be a more combat orientated sandbox. Appeal to as many? Maybe not, but a sandbox it is all the same.

     

    But some of the notions being bandied about here "arena game", "not a sandbox because less protection than EVE", "communties at fault", well sorry, they are just utterly false.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

     

    you make good posts, but when ur precious are topic they arent as good.  AV added some fluff here and there but the core mechanics and the attitude of the community is the same. u know the definiton of insanity right?

    Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

     

    Who knows how Unholy Wars will turn out, I have serious doubts about it at the moment that is fair to say. I'm looking forward but worried at the same time as I am not convinced at all by what I have seen at the moment (which is very little).

     

    Time will tell I guess.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • OnigodOnigod Noord-HollandPosts: 688Member
    Originally posted by parrotpholk
    Originally posted by Phry
    Its not a Sandbox, but as a Themepark, the Theme, is PVP..   image

    This more or less.  DF1 was little more than a large battleground arena.  Should have and could have been so much more.

    I rly like how those players that didnt play much more of darkfall after launch give the game attention again because UW is coming with a i know it all attitude. You described the game in a way darkfall actually was NOT (Launch was and so will the launch of uw be untill the game/community settles)

    Darkfall had many fun things to do beside pvp but most of them toke some time/preperations before being able to fully enjoy them.

  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 350Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

     

    you make good posts, but when ur precious are topic they arent as good.  AV added some fluff here and there but the core mechanics and the attitude of the community is the same. u know the definiton of insanity right?

    Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

     

    Who knows how Unholy Wars will turn out, I have serious doubts about it at the moment that is fair to say. I'm looking forward but worried at the same time as I am not convinced at all by what I have seen at the moment (which is very little).

     

    Time will tell I guess.

    You like the game the way it is, i respect that and kudos to you. i know the pain of having our favorite game changed "for a more broader appeal ". the problem is many sandboxers wants a fantasy EvE and see in darkfall the potential to become one.

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

     

    You really need to ditch the attitude buddy. I said in order for Darkfall to be a better sandbox it should be more like EVE, which happens to currently be the best sandbox. Darkfall is an open world arena, you're the one who is confused. Whats you're solution for player protection? No towers and no guards? the game would be utter chaos and even more of an arena then it already is. Eve security is just right, you CAN be killed anywhere, but in all the time i've played I've NEVER been killed in 1.0 space. Anyways, I'm done arguing with you since your posts have devolved into profanity and insults.

    If you can't see the inherit flaws in Darkfall's design, fine I sincerly hope you have fun playing it, but you say my ideas are ridiculous without mentioning any of your own yet you agree the game has flaws. That's whats called a straw man arguement, you're trying to distort my side of the arguement without even having a side of your own, other than saying "the game is fine as it is, but its broken and needs to be fixed."

    You're bringing up strawman and yet that is exactly what you are doing..

     

    The fact that I think your argument is wrong does not mean that I cannot "see the flaws" in Darkfall.

     When did I suggest removing protection?

    It being heavily pvp focused does not make it an "arena".

     

     

    The game had major issues which limited it's playerbase. The game could do with more fleshed out systems.

     

    Low quality product.

    Massive power disparities due to an inordinate grind which HAD to be done in order to be combat ready.

    An OTT magic/ray system.

    Terrible UI.

    PVE content which, whilst present, was not actually that well fleshed out.

    Little to no "new player friendliness" and no that doesn't mean whacking in massive "safe zones".

     

    Improve upon the non pvp "content".

    Sort the UI.

    Remove the bugs and exploits.

    Add in tutorials.

    Remove the required grind.

    Improve upon the overall "quality".

     

    Personally I would add npcs instead of towers, but it would be nowhere near like the level offered in EVE, because whilst a sandbox, Darkfall is still trying to be a more combat orientated sandbox. Appeal to as many? Maybe not, but a sandbox it is all the same.

     

    But some of the notions being bandied about here "arena game", "not a sandbox because less protection than EVE", "communties at fault", well sorry, they are just utterly false.

     

    Indeed one mechanic that was flawed in DF1 was alignment . The security in NPC city and around it is a good example why DF fails also as sandbox. 

    It did had a chance to be superior to even EvE's but AV isn't very clever and consequent (and i think not very talented in thinking sandbox'ish solution's) 

    It would have made sense if the players would have been given the chance to police those areas themselvs and with setting up artificial means (like racial warfare and / or allowing player to make carreer in the NPC cities guilds ) to support these efforts but everything AV setup was counteracting a playerdriven solution to something that would have been even superior to EvE's 99,9% security in high sec sector. Blind to those superior solutions AV setup a subpar alignment system that is a hinderence for playstyles and sandbox gameplay.

    AV sabotage his own game in ragards to sandbox to the extend that makes me think they simply dont want it to be one or they lack massive talent to think clever sandbox solutions.

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • wrekognizewrekognize salt lake city, UTPosts: 384Member

    DF1 sure felt like a Sandbox to me. Felt like a mix of my experiences with UO and Oblivion.

     

    ..

  • BossalinieBossalinie Hattiesburg, MSPosts: 683Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by TsaboHavoc
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

     

    you make good posts, but when ur precious are topic they arent as good.  AV added some fluff here and there but the core mechanics and the attitude of the community is the same. u know the definiton of insanity right?

    Doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

     

    Who knows how Unholy Wars will turn out, I have serious doubts about it at the moment that is fair to say. I'm looking forward but worried at the same time as I am not convinced at all by what I have seen at the moment (which is very little).

     

    Time will tell I guess.

    You like the game the way it is, i respect that and kudos to you. i know the pain of having our favorite game changed "for a more broader appeal ". the problem is many sandboxers wants a fantasy EvE and see in darkfall the potential to become one.

    I'm one who'd rather have a game few in number where the devs actually play themselves, rather than one with unreal numbers and the devs won't touch.

    As long as the devs are playing what they envisioned, then I'm all for them not changing the core. 

  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by bossalinie

    I'm one who'd rather have a game few in number where the devs actually play themselves, rather than one with unreal numbers and the devs won't touch.

    As long as the devs are playing what they envisioned, then I'm all for them not changing the core. 

    Then DF and AV is the wrong example because they admited they didn't played their game in the DF UW announcement video ;)

    -----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
    $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
    -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!

    "There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)

  • HotjazzHotjazz BalsfjordPosts: 742Member
    Originally posted by TsaboHavo

     i know the pain of having our favorite game changed "for a more broader appeal ". the problem is many sandboxers wants a fantasy EvE and see in darkfall the potential to become one.

    I`m one of those sandboxer that want some security for the new players. The anarchy players was proven wrong 15 years ago in UO.

     

    In early UO players were suppose to police themselves, but it fell flat on the face. 80 % of the playerbase were murderers, 19 % new players and 1 % was anti pks. It was no penalty for being a murderer and they could walk into any town. This showed the comunity that players can never police themselves and something had to be done. UO took a drastic approach and implementet statloss for murderers. After statloss murderers became famous and respected daredevils. They risked their char for their playstyle.

     

    In Darkfall we just killed our alt char when we had some murdercounts. We could kill the same crafter in a capital city every 10 minutes with no penaltys at all. It was the worst alignment ever made and Darkfall was bound to fail. Murderers in darkfall don`t risk anything and got no respect as they are just the average player.

     

    In UO we had guards to protect players in a city. They had a plutonium halberd of doom and would insta kill you the second you did anything wrong. Why any PK would complain over Darkfalls weak towers is beyond my understanding. There should be a penalty for killing new players in a newbie area, because in darkfall there is enough space to kill players without penalty.

     

    You can kill a new players and take a murdercount or you can man up and try to kill a decent player in the lawless area. Only shit players would defend their right to kill new players as they please.

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    AV sabotage his own game in ragards to sandbox to the extend that makes me think they simply dont want it to be one or they lack massive talent to think clever sandbox solutions.

    My guess is the latter.

    Aventurine seems to be missing Developers that understand how sandboxes works, and how players works. Whenever AV adds something new to the game, I'm sure they're really excited about it, but they always fail to see the issue with what they're introducing. They're shortsighted.

    The alignement system was a mess. There is simply no incentive to be a Blue player, and many PvP encounters often results in you becoming red even for defending yourself or your allies. So everyone's red, and if you ever wanted to become blue again, repeatedly kill a player from an enemy faction (often Alts). AV decided to address that with Chaos Churches, if you pray daily you'll gain +2 Alignement everyday at a cost. Problem? To finally be able to turn Blue, players would have to stop PvP'ing altogether so as to not lose their alignement again. Then AV finally introduced Lawless areas which more or less fixed things. However, there's still no incentive to be a blue-aligned player, so every new players are blue while everyone else is red.

    In fact, most of the features and changes they've introduced have always been severely incomplete, and I suspect DFUW will be no different.

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • TsaboHavocTsaboHavoc PinheiralPosts: 350Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hotjazz
    Originally posted by TsaboHavo

     i know the pain of having our favorite game changed "for a more broader appeal ". the problem is many sandboxers wants a fantasy EvE and see in darkfall the potential to become one.

    I`m one of those sandboxer that want some security for the new players. The anarchy players was proven wrong 15 years ago in UO.

     

    In early UO players were suppose to police themselves, but it fell flat on the face. 80 % of the playerbase were murderers, 19 % new players and 1 % was anti pks. It was no penalty for being a murderer and they could walk into any town. This showed the comunity that players can never police themselves and something had to be done. UO took a drastic approach and implementet statloss for murderers. After statloss murderers became famous and respected daredevils. They risked their char for their playstyle.

     

    In Darkfall we just killed our alt char when we had some murdercounts. We could kill the same crafter in a capital city every 10 minutes with no penaltys at all. It was the worst alignment ever made and Darkfall was bound to fail. Murderers in darkfall don`t risk anything and got no respect as they are just the average player.

     

    In UO we had guards to protect players in a city. They had a plutonium halberd of doom and would insta kill you the second you did anything wrong. Why any PK would complain over Darkfalls weak towers is beyond my understanding. There should be a penalty for killing new players in a newbie area, because in darkfall there is enough space to kill players without penalty.

     

    You can kill a new players and take a murdercount or you can man up and try to kill a decent player in the lawless area. Only shit players would defend their right to kill new players as they please.

    not a native speaker so i poorly choosen my words, i agree 100% with u and really want a system like EvE in Darkfall or at least a better security system.

  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,660Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden
    Originally posted by bossalinie

    I'm one who'd rather have a game few in number where the devs actually play themselves, rather than one with unreal numbers and the devs won't touch.

    As long as the devs are playing what they envisioned, then I'm all for them not changing the core. 

    Then DF and AV is the wrong example because they admited they didn't played their game in the DF UW announcement video ;)

    Yes they did, but not because they didnt want to, but because theyve been too busy trying to fix the 1st one and now working on UW. He did say they hope everything goes more smoothly with UW so they have some time to play this time around.

  • TopherpunchTopherpunch Apex, NCPosts: 86Member

    We should all just agree to disagree about it all and forget it. Call games what you want and spread your information throughout the community. Arguing about what games are and what they were is pointless because everyone has their own view.

    image


    Come check out what I have to say on my blog http://civilgamer.com

    Also check out http;//agonasylum.com for Darkfall player trading and stories forums

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by Hancakes

    DF1

     

    • Role-playing, strategy, and shooter action in a MMOG
    • The largest handcrafted online world of its kind.
    • Over 10 thousand concurrent players per game world.
    • The largest MMORPG battles ever - involving thousands.
    • Ultimate PvP action, the #1 choice of top players and clans.
    • Seamless, zoneless, non-instanced world. No invisible walls.
    • No safe zones. Full loot. PvP everywhere with accountability.
    • No more leveling. Improve the skills you use.
    • Fight on mounts, ships, man cannons and vehicles.
    • Siege and conquer cities, build and protect your own.
    • Craft any item in the world and put your name on it.

     

     

    In short a PvP game in a very big world.

    Got it.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Phry
    Its not a Sandbox, but as a Themepark, the Theme, is PVP..   image

    Pretty much this. 

    Worst game design decision yet!

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  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

     

    1. Darkfall is an open world sandbox, not an arena.

     

    No.

    Dosen't matter how many time you say it It's still big NO

     

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torgrim
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Krashner
     

     

    1. Darkfall is an open world sandbox, not an arena.

     

    No.

    Dosen't matter how many time you say it It's still big NO

     

    As I said in my thread. DF is a open ended THEMEPARK. There is no sand. 

    image

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member

    I've been a fan of darkfall for many years.  I have been a voice advocating, unsuccessfully, for more sandbox elements since the development stages.  

    What really needs to happen with unholy wars is hundreds of fluff things to do that have nothing to do with pvp.  Things like writing in books, learning the racial languages, chat bubbles, local banking, localized resources, pack mules, music, instruments, etc. 

    Then what you left with is a world that you can immerse yourself in.  None of the things I mentioned take away from the pvp and some of them actually enhance the pvp by adding layers of depth. 

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,257Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Badaboom

    I've been a fan of darkfall for many years.  I have been a voice advocating, unsuccessfully, for more sandbox elements since the development stages.  

    What really needs to happen with unholy wars is hundreds of fluff things to do that have nothing to do with pvp.  Things like writing in books, learning the racial languages, chat bubbles, local banking, localized resources, pack mules, music, instruments, etc. 

    Then what you left with is a world that you can immerse yourself in.  None of the things I mentioned take away from the pvp and some of them actually enhance the pvp by adding layers of depth. 

    Not going to disagree, but would add, more large scale PvE that is meaningful, and bring the community together for things besides just PvP.

     

    I would like something like Rift's Zone Invasions. When I play Darkfall, I usually spend my time crafting and grinding mobs. Make that more fun!!!

    image

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