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Can anyone speak to the extent UW will be a "sandbox"?
MindTrigger
Member Posts: 2,596
I can't seem to find much information on this, but I've heard this game called a "sandbox" by some. I always took that to mean that it was probably more of a hybrid style game, but since I never played it, I don't know.
I'd like to learn more about those player-driven aspects of this game that may be considered sandbox in nature. Crafting, adventuring, etc. What drives this game? It is a themepark or hybrid, etc.
I'm very interested in giving this game a try next month, especially since I refuse to purchase any more pure themepark games ever again after coming to the full realization this year, that such a game will never interest me beyond a month or two.
If you have a link to good information, that would be great too.
Thanks in advance!
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
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DF1
This is what I was afraid of. PvP is fun and all, and I'm down with world PvP in the right context, but if all this is going to be is PvP without a more well-rounded gameplay experience, then it's not for me.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
lol people calling the likes of
TSW, EQ, EQ2!!!, GW2, DAOC (well ok that has some hybridness) "sandboxes" on other threads
now we have people calling darkfall a "themepark"
I predict by the end of the month we will get a " utima online is a themepark, swtor is a sandbox" thread.
anyway to put it this way OP:
Darkfall has more in common with eve than it has in common with wow
Open world.
Do what you want.
Players create and shape the world.
Crafting is being completely redone for more depth.
What ISN'T sandbox about DF:UW??
Haha, what? Themepark?
A game with no classes, no zones, no instances, where you can use any skill and use any item and wear any armor and fight any person... is a themepark? Fucking how?
PvP does not mean it's not sandbox, it means your view of what makes a game a sandbox is seriously flawed possibly leaning to completely wrong.
Don't listen to these guys. I barely PvP'd in Darkfall and I played for 3 years. IT certainly is at the CENTER of all the game design, but it doesn't change the fact that there's a lot more to do in Darkfall than that.
I spent most of my time exploring the game world (which is huge, and handcrafted), disovering new monsters and fighting them with friends (the mob AI is better than any other MMO out there at the moment, feels like you're facing bots in an FPS, or legitimate creatures, zombies can't see at night, but they can smell, that sort of stuff). I became an armor crafter and would sell to a few clans, and mark out the best places to find metal on the map. I did the quests for all the human cities, and there are some pretty great ones in there. I explored all the dungeons, which were made more exciting by the threat of being attacked at any given point while inside. I fought huge boss mobs with my friends, getting rich while doing it. I built a boat and sailed around, scooping up treasure from the ocean floor. I found treasure maps and ran around Agon digging them up and then trying to bank my plunder. I made my own quests with Use Flags and had other players report back to me for a reward.
There's plenty to do outside PvP, but most people never bother, so they pretend it doesn't exist.
Let it be, it`s just trolls.
It`s the same in every thread, and it boils down to that they are carebears. These players are just so scared to lose some pixels, they constantly slag Darkfall. We know Darkfall is a sandbox game, so just send them back to WOW where they belong.
According to them neither UO, any mmo ever made or RL is sandbox.
See, now this sounds more like it. Not perfect, but much more like what I'm into. I really do like PvP, it's just that I also like to take a break from it and do other things too, such as craft and explore/adventure.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
DF is the most fantasy themed, pvp focused sandbox out to date, and the only one with a fps combat.
the only sandboxier games out right now would be Wurm or Xsyon.......if you prefer space ship or robots then EvE and Perpetuum.
darkfall is not a themepark. people saying its only a battleground are ignorant and probably just suck at the game.
however I wouldn't call say it was the sandiest sandbox, if all you want is sand go play haven and hearth or wait for salem.
My blog:
Care to elaborate or provide link ? can't remember having heard a official "completely redone" by AV regarding to crafting.
OP DF can be labled as sandbox just a very shallow one.
Think of like every sandbox aspect is being counteracted by some stupid gamemechanic that takes the sandboxiness out of it.
Housing ? predefined house spot and layout and depends entirely on rare loot drop.
Mob spawns ? static and seemingly placed with nothing in mind.
Mob loot ? through droping high level gear it counteracts crafting.
raw ressources ? unidimensional, one sort of "wood", one sort of "stone", one sort of "steegrass" with no further attributes and crafting related diversity.
crafting plans ? shallow design of crafting plans (except enchanting which is somewhat more "complex") which results in items which are about the same no matter of the crafter and his abilities (yea i know about durability).
forage materials ? global and unidimensional ressources make it a unispired activity .
Caravans ? a simple personal delivery mission...
They only sandbox aspect that delivers is the huge seamless world , with the open world PvP and PvE enounters (which are static in spots and amount like i said above).
It has to be the only company btw who in a expansion cut the world and made it smaller instead what everyone would expect, add landmass or new islands in a new expansion. Alone that shows that they don't want a sandbox, they want to get people fight in a big arena with no chance for someone to create lets say a remote hideout as playstyle and live out of hidden small island.
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You want to be very careful though my friend. While you can play games and never PvP you have to also know that when this game launches, it will be nothing but PvP. Not because that is what the game is, but when you have tons of PvPers in a well lit room with some redbull and cheetos, expect to get ganked. So the first month or so I expect there to be some ganking, thieves, and some smart gankers. People who will literally team up with you just to gank you. Know who you are playing with and do not travel light if you want to keep the fun going. People will be battling for spawns and taking what is not theirs just to irritate you and make you play somewhere else, or sign off althogether. Alas, there is light at the end of the tunnel, after some time these people will move to the more open space and ganking will be less frequent, but still keep a keen eye over your shoulder. Darkfall is not full of PvPers, it creates them.
Come check out what I have to say on my blog http://civilgamer.com
Also check out http;//agonasylum.com for Darkfall player trading and stories forums
Speaking strictly based on what DarkFall 1 offers, Phry's comparison to DF being a Themepark PvP-focused MMORPG is more in line with my thoughts as well. Having some difficulties trying to find a decent analogy, but essentially, take any Themepark, remove most rules/regulation and you get DarkFall.
I'll try to put it this way. Both themeparks and sandboxes are "boxes". What makes them different is that the former has pre-made rides while the latter is filled with sand to allow players to do what they want with it. Looking at it this way, DarkFall is much closer to a Themepark as Clan Cities, Hamlets, Player Houses/Villages are all pre-made/pre-located constructions and that very little room is given for players to create their own things.
Darkfall has often been compared to a sandbox with no sand, and it's quite accurate. Very little to no tool have been created to give players the ability to do what they want. Crafting is sub-par and nothing different from any Themepark (collect ingredient xyz, use crafting station, wait, rinse and repeat). There is no way for a player to impact the result of the craft (aside from a skill that increases tha maximum amount of durability a crafted item has, but this bare little use when all players have it and items don't last very long due to being lost in PvP). Enchanting is the only skill that uses a wider variety of ingredients of different quality to create stronger enchantments, but this can only be done to an already existing item (is not done during the crafting process, but only after the item has been created) . Oh, and it should also be noted that the statement that you can craft any item in the game is FALSE. Many armor sets are only dropped by mobs (Ancient, Black Knight, etc) and MANY sets are incomplete. Many items required to craft Ships, Warhulks and I believe Cannons as well cannot be crafted either (Astrolabe, Marine Astrolabe, Orb, etc)
As far as exploration goes, players will find no purpose to "explore" as there is nothing to discover once the map has been seen once. This had become such an issue that Aventurine felt the need to introduce Chaos Chest, which are chests that spawns randomly across the world that contains various rewards including Deeds (getting to that next paragraph).
Housing. Houses can be found in pre-built/pre-located villages scattered across Agon. To acquire a house (cottage, keep, etc), you must drop a Deed for the appropriate kind of house you want. Deeds are found from Chaos Chest at a fairly low rate, and some monsters at an even lower rate. House appliances (small garden, NPC Vendor, decoration, Guest extension) can only be found as Drops from Chaos Chest as well.
Clan Cities. Pre-located. Players only need to farm the necessary amount of ressources needed (transform them into modules), and then the buildings will rise from the ground at a pre-located area in the already pre-located Clan City (or Hamlet). No decorations exist for Clan Cities.
In an attempt to add more "sandbox" into the game, Aventurine decided to introduce "Fun Hulks" (actual name) and some flags to make races! Those "Fun Hulks" are basically bumper cars with a cannon attached to it. They quickly lost their novelty and are simply not used because they serve no purpose (Fun Hulks can only damage other Fun Hulks), although they did get used at one point to block areas as they could not be destroyed by other players (which was addressed later).
DarkFall 2.0 shows no sign of offering any more sandbox elements than what DarkFall 1 already offers, which is to say none. So if you're looking for a sandbox, look elsewhere as you'll be badly disappointed. However if you're looking for a FFA PvP Themepark with Full Loot, DarkFall is actually a pretty fun game.
And yet you fail to say what makes a game a sandbox or even cite a sandbox game and why it is a sandbox (in your opinion), which I bet would not be that far off from Darkfall.
I think people are a bit confused about the definition of a themepark and a sandbox. A sandbox is a game that allows you to go anywhere in the game and challenges you to explore without a set path. A themepark is waiting in line with hundreds (if not thousands) for your turn at a quest, or mob, that an NPC told you to kill.
While there are quests in Darkfall it is by no definition a themepark. If you look at other games like ES: oblivion, Fable, or Fallout, you might think to yourself this is a themepark game, you are wrong. They are by definition sandbox games because they pomote you to not follow the linear path, even though it exists. I am not comparing Darkfall to any of these games, simply giving an example.
I think the main problem is people are just not aware of the difference, they see all games as a sea of the same thing, this is kind of correct if you look at it through the same undecerning eyes. You could say WoW is a sandbox game because you are able to do whatever you want, but the fact is when it comes down to it you still follow a single path, you just have a choice at which one you want to follow.
True sandbox games are just games that are like an ant farm and you control the ants, not farm is going to have the same paths, that is the true definition. So when you play Darkfall remember it is a sandbox because I might have farmed goblins until I was able to kill Gnolls, while another player farmed trolls and than went through a few dungeon instances to farm something different. There was not set path or dotted line I had to follow because the lore lead me, you exist in the game to be your own player.
Also I want to add that you are looking at the towns and hamlets all wrong. Sure there are only some of each and they are set up certain ways, but what makes them part of the sandbox world is they can be owned by anyone.
Come check out what I have to say on my blog http://civilgamer.com
Also check out http;//agonasylum.com for Darkfall player trading and stories forums
You know...that second paragraph you probably didn't read....
I mean sure, if you're looking for a detailed list of what makes a sandbox or not, it's not that, but it was never intended to be either. Plenty of threads cover that already. My point is that DarkFall is much closer to a Themepark PvP MMO than a Sandbox MMO. It could definitively be a Sandbox MMO, but for that Aventurine would have to stop cutting corners everywhere.
Sad part is you're pretty much right, those were probably the most sandbox-like features AV has introduced into the game, yet, and unsurprisingly, they managed to completely miss the mark with them.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/10/09/aventurine-on-darkfalls-new-ui-payment-models-and-more/
"Same for the crafting -- is it more extensive/meaningful this time around?
Crafting has also seen major changes, with the most prominent one being the new pattern system regarding the weapon design. This new system allows the players to decide the visual design of a particular weapon's rank before crafting it, while the rank of the weapon and the materials used to craft it will influence the weapon's hue.As with the new skill system, we can keep building on the crafting system, extending it further."
Darkfall is more of an arena pvp game than it is sandbox. I think we can all agree that EVE is currently the best current sandbox available. Yet when people want some of the systems that make EVE so great to be included in Darkfall they're called carebears and told to go back to wow. Then these same people turn around and talk about how superior they're sandbox is since it's "hardcore".
A game CANNOT be sandbox if it only caters to one type of player, in darkfall that's the pvper. EVE lets people be as hardcore or as carebear as they want to be with sector security. You can still pvp anywhere, but in high sec space they're more extreme consequences where as in null sec they're are pretty much none. Darkfall needs npc guards that attack reds on sight near places that would be high sec, such as starter cities.
Ultimately you want the carebears in game to craft and gather resources and occasionally help when you go to war so that your army has everything it needs for the fighters to keep fighting. Unfortunately the Darkfall community has a pretty low opinion of carebears and will actively try and run them off. The hardcore communtiy is Darkfall's own worst enemy because they keep the game boring and stagnant.
except they are trying to make the game a bit easyer for newbies and stuff and still retain most of the hardcore features.
and not all df players are like that. the guild new is proof of that
Making the game easier for new players is nice, but it doesn't solve the underlying issue. Darkfall only supports one style of play and that is pvp. Want to pve? Be prepared to pvp. Want to explore? Be prepared to pvp. Want to gather resources and craft? Be prepared to pvp. The fact that the game revolves around pvp makes it one big arena game and not a sandbox. Pvp should be A playstyle, not THE playstye. I know not all of the players are jerks, but they're quite a few that are.
OP, Darkfall was a sandbox, Unholy Wars will no doubt be a sandbox as well. If you are worried about it being a themepark, put those worries aside. It just happens to have pvp as it's central theme.
Anyone telling you it is/was a themepark/themepark hyrbid is either trolling, on crack or has never actually played it for more than five minutes.
I've underlined that because it is quite important, the last thread on the sunject was full of the most insane comments you could possible imagine. People do love to try and bash/troll this franchise, even if it means them coming out with posts which makes them look like complete and utter fkwits. Christ there is already someone in this thread calling it an "arena game". It really beggars belief.
That said, how much "sand" is in that box is limited (or at least was in the original). It has a healthy exploration, crafting, decentralized economy and player meta role systems. But it is doesn't have the amount of "sand" a UO did, and it is heavily pvp centric.
So if you are looing for an open, sandbox which has a heavy emphasis on pvp systems. Then it is probably worth a go 9I would wait before jumping on ship to see if they actually deliver mind you). If you are looking for a new UO with all of it's sand and can't stand the thought of getting involved in pvp, then give it a miss.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."