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End Game Questions

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  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Gw2 isn't instanced, its zoned like warhammer, aion and err wow (just wow zones are very big, entire continents)

    Tsw is instanced in that if there are too many people in a zone it will spawn additional copies. As are swtor and Aoc. To be fair you need a lot more players in a zone before it starts instancing them with tsw than you do the other two.

    GW2 is instanced matey.

    lets put it this way assuming we are all on the same server.. say i'm in queensdale all my friends want to join me in queensdale and they are currently in divinitys reach they go through the zone portal and meet me in queensdale the end... now take swtor for example I'm in fleet and want to meet my friends in tattooine we leave whatever area we were in a travel to tattoine and 2 meet up in same instance of tattoine and the others in another instance.. this is the difference between zoning and instancing.. when the game makes a complete copy of the same zone to accomidate more players or segregate content like dungeons and such.. GW2 has instancing(dungeons, sPVP) but the world is not instanced

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Originally posted by ShakyMo
    You loose all credibility when you claim wow is open world, never mind your lack of grasping the difference between a zoned world and an instanced world.

    P.s. what are you doing when you catch an airship or travel through the portal in hellfire peninsula in wow?

    Fast traveling.  A means of quick travel. Wow has the main world in one instance (or 3 or 4, per continent, don't claim to be a WoW expert I just know computers). Battlegrounds, dungeons and raids are all in other individual seperate instances.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Deznts

    Zones are not techincal, they are geographic. A zone is an area. A zone can either be a part of a large world (think of Rift). Or there can be one zone per instance (think of AoC, TSW, GW2, list goes on as long as you want).

    There can be multiples of a single instance. Or a game may only need one of each unique instance.

    An open world game all takes place within one instance.

    When you see a load screen in a game, the engine is creating the virtual space that we play within. It has dimensions and confines, similar to a cardboard box.

    In "open world" games, all the zones, the entire world is in one box. The game engine loads up one instance, with everything within.

    In "instanced" games, each zone is within its own cardboard box. Everytime you see a loadscreen, you leave one box and (it is purged from memory), and you enter a different box (it is loaded in to memory). Depending on the games population density and server capability, you may or may not have multiple instances of the same zone.

    So to answer the OP, again... TSW is instanced.

    WOW has loading screens too and yet you say it isn't instanced. That puts big question mark on your credibility.

    I don't think even you know what you are talking about and just making up stuff as you go.

  • GW2 is completely instanced. Every zone is in an individual instance. Every single pve zone. As well as every wvwvw area, and every spvp match. It is all instanced. Overflow is just a 'single-server' feature which allows players to visit instances which they otherwise would not be able to in traditional multiple server scenarios with no cross-server software tech.
  • JulianDracosJulianDracos Houston, TXPosts: 1,529Member
    Originally posted by Deznts

    Zones are not techincal, they are geographic. A zone is an area. A zone can either be a part of a large world (think of Rift). Or there can be one zone per instance (think of AoC, TSW, GW2, list goes on as long as you want).

    There can be multiples of a single instance. Or a game may only need one of each unique instance.

    An open world game all takes place within one instance.

    When you see a load screen in a game, the engine is creating the virtual space that we play within. It has dimensions and confines, similar to a cardboard box.

    In "open world" games, all the zones, the entire world is in one box. The game engine loads up one instance, with everything within.

    In "instanced" games, each zone is within its own cardboard box. Everytime you see a loadscreen, you leave one box and (it is purged from memory), and you enter a different box (it is loaded in to memory). Depending on the games population density and server capability, you may or may not have multiple instances of the same zone.

    So to answer the OP, again... TSW is instanced.

    But I don't care how you use the word instance because that is not what I am talking about.  By your definition, I think almost every mmo is instanced. 

    When I talk about instacing (and most other people), I am talking about areas that are small and have population caps.  It is areas where there are multiple versions of it.  Hence, EQ is not instanced, and SWTOR is instanced although both having loading screens.

    From what I have read, it does seem that TSW is instanced in the way that I care about. 

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Deznts
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    You loose all credibility when you claim wow is open world, never mind your lack of grasping the difference between a zoned world and an instanced world.

    P.s. what are you doing when you catch an airship or travel through the portal in hellfire peninsula in wow?

    Fast traveling.  A means of quick travel. Wow has the main world in one instance. Battlegrounds, dungeons and raids are all in other individual seperate instances.

    i agree with that there is no copy you are going to as everyone is traveling to the same zone.. if me and a buddy hopped on a zeplin and ended up in two differn't instances of wherever we were going it would be instanced

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Deznts
    GW2 is completely instanced. Every zone is in an individual instance. Every single pve zone. As well as every wvwvw area, and every spvp match. It is all instanced. Overflow is just a 'single-server' feature which allows players to visit instances which they otherwise would not be able to in traditional multiple server scenarios with no cross-server software tech.

    how is WvWvW instanced? with overflows for regular zones it's a grey area instance but how is WvWvW in anyway instanced? WvWvW has no overflows

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I played coh for two years before I realised it was instanced, as the cut off point where they spawn new shards is so big.

    Tsw you might not notice, its a fairly big number, its not like Aoc or swtor with just 50 people running around.
  • Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Deznts
    GW2 is completely instanced. Every zone is in an individual instance. Every single pve zone. As well as every wvwvw area, and every spvp match. It is all instanced. Overflow is just a 'single-server' feature which allows players to visit instances which they otherwise would not be able to in traditional multiple server scenarios with no cross-server software tech.

    how is WvWvW instanced? with overflows for regular zones it's a grey area instance but how is WvWvW in anyway instanced? WvWvW has no overflows

    I see where you are confused. The usage of instance, instances, instancing and instanced...

    GW2 is instanced. Everything is in individual instances. Therefore WvWvW is in an instance, or more accurately, within instances.

    "Instancing" is a term commonly used to refer to when multiples of a specific unique instance are used in order to deal with population over capacity. Ala sPvP matches. Multiple instances in order to support demand. Whereas in other games you may be waiting just to fill a queue for one single match (instance) due to less than 10 people queued server-wide.

    In WvWvW they made a design decision to not utilize multiple instances with WvWvW because it would greatly reduce the significance of each person's experience not necessarily being a contribution to a single whole. Instead it would of been a contribution to a part of a whole which was only even in existence when needed.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Deznts

    WOW IS ZONED
    It's not fast travel,
    Kalimdor is a zone
    Outland is a zone
    Azeroth is a zone
    Northrend is a zone
    Pandaria is a zone

    Granted they are bigger zones than say Aion. But they are zones non the less.
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Deznts
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Deznts
    GW2 is completely instanced. Every zone is in an individual instance. Every single pve zone. As well as every wvwvw area, and every spvp match. It is all instanced. Overflow is just a 'single-server' feature which allows players to visit instances which they otherwise would not be able to in traditional multiple server scenarios with no cross-server software tech.

    how is WvWvW instanced? with overflows for regular zones it's a grey area instance but how is WvWvW in anyway instanced? WvWvW has no overflows

    I see where you are confused. The usage of instance, instances, instancing and instanced...

    GW2 is instanced. Everything is in individual instances. Therefore WvWvW is in an instance, or more accurately, within instances.

    "Instancing" is a term commonly used to refer to when multiples of a specific unique instance are used in order to deal with population over capacity. Ala sPvP matches. Multiple instances in order to support demand. Whereas in other games you may be waiting just to fill a queue for one single match (instance) due to less than 10 people queued server-wide.

    In WvWvW they made a design decision to not utilize multiple instances with WvWvW because it would greatly reduce the significance of each person's experience not necessarily being a contribution to a single whole. Instead it would of been a contribution to a part of a whole which was only even in existence when needed.

    how is WvWvW any differn't technically speaking than say the outlands in wow

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Deznts

    WOW IS ZONED
    It's not fast travel,
    Kalimdor is a zone
    Outland is a zone
    Azeroth is a zone
    Northrend is a zone
    Pandaria is a zone

    Granted they are bigger zones than say Aion. But they are zones non the less.

    Can we use Rift as an example? I am more familiar with it. In Rift each zone was different visually, but they were all within the same instance. You could walk, if the terrain allowed you, from one zone to the next. There were no load screens due to it all being within one instance.

    The reason you see loadscreens when you fast travel within an open world game's single instance is due to draw distance/time to draw.

    Whether you are playing an "open world" or "instanced" game... Assuming the instances are a decent size, your computer is only drawing a portion of the game. Regardless of instance or open world. The game has a parameter that you may or may not be able to change which determines your view distance. The game renders a certain amount of the world dependant upon that view distance. As you travel through the game, the area that comes within your view distance is rendered and that which falls out is no longer rendered. Areas that fall out are typically cached for a certain amount of time so they can quickly be rendered again should you turn around or go backwards. So as you walk through the world loading is gradual and usually goes on without notice.

    As for how that pertains to fast travelling. When you fast travel outside of your viewable distance, nothing you were rendering a moment ago is even used now and everything you are to see now, likely wasn't being rendered previously. So instead of you seeing the engine rendering the world, they put up a screen so that you don't see what really happens while you normally would be looking at a pretty load screen with a helpful tip.

  • Originally posted by Aerowyn

    how is WvWvW any differn't technically speaking than say the outlands in wow

    Sorry, I am not familiar enough with WoW. I think that you are correct. Outlands is a continent that was added with an expansion correct? If so, I believe it is in an instnace sepearate from the two main continents that are also two seperate instances. All of the zones of a continent are contained within a single instance. Load screens are occurred due to fast travelling out of your previously rendered area.

    Load screens are absolutely occurred whenever you travel between continents due to loading another instance entirely.

  • Hence, EQ is not instanced, and SWTOR is instanced although both having loading screens.

    Load screens are not exclusive to instanced games and are a result of travelling out of your previously rendered area, regardless of if you left an instance or not to travel from point A to point B.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Deznts
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    how is WvWvW any differn't technically speaking than say the outlands in wow

    Sorry, I am not familiar enough with WoW. I think that you are correct. Outlands is a continent that was added with an expansion correct? If so, I believe it is in an instnace sepearate from the two main continents that are also two seperate instances. All of the zones of a continent are contained within a single instance. Load screens are occurred due to fast travelling out of your previously rendered area.

    Load screens are absolutely occurred whenever you travel between continents due to loading another instance entirely.

    i see now.. you do have a very differn't understanding of what is considered instancing and zoning it seems though.. look at my example of swtor and gw2 above this is how instancing and zoning has been defined since these games first started... the cross zone stuff starts to blur those terms though as even now wow has cross realm zones.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Deznts
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    how is WvWvW any differn't technically speaking than say the outlands in wow

    Sorry, I am not familiar enough with WoW. I think that you are correct. Outlands is a continent that was added with an expansion correct? If so, I believe it is in an instnace sepearate from the two main continents that are also two seperate instances. All of the zones of a continent are contained within a single instance. Load screens are occurred due to fast travelling out of your previously rendered area.

    Load screens are absolutely occurred whenever you travel between continents due to loading another instance entirely.

    i see now.. you do have a very differn't understanding of what is considered instancing and zoning it seems though.. look at my example of swtor and gw2 above this is how instancing and zoning has been defined since these games first started... the cross zone stuff starts to blur those terms though as even now wow has cross realm zones.

    I realize I may not have hundreds or thousands of post on here. But I'm not new to the genre. I joined this forum almost 7 years ago. I just don't post often. But don't assume that I'm new to "these games" or that I was a sparkle in my mom's eye when "they started".

    I don't think either of us cares too much for the fact that between the two of use we straddle 30. I just have a more computer industry technical perspective whereas yours must be hands-on end user consumer. Nothing wrong with that. Usage of terminology can cause misunderstandings.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Deznts
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Deznts
    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    how is WvWvW any differn't technically speaking than say the outlands in wow

    Sorry, I am not familiar enough with WoW. I think that you are correct. Outlands is a continent that was added with an expansion correct? If so, I believe it is in an instnace sepearate from the two main continents that are also two seperate instances. All of the zones of a continent are contained within a single instance. Load screens are occurred due to fast travelling out of your previously rendered area.

    Load screens are absolutely occurred whenever you travel between continents due to loading another instance entirely.

    i see now.. you do have a very differn't understanding of what is considered instancing and zoning it seems though.. look at my example of swtor and gw2 above this is how instancing and zoning has been defined since these games first started... the cross zone stuff starts to blur those terms though as even now wow has cross realm zones.

    I realize I may not have hundreds or thousands of post on here. But I'm not new to the genre. I joined this forum almost 7 years ago. I just don't post often. But don't assume that I'm new to "these games" or that I was a sparkle in my mom's eye when "they started".

    I don't think either of us cares too much for the fact that between the two of use we straddle 30. I just have a more computer industry technical perspective whereas yours must be hands-on end user consumer. Nothing wrong with that. Usage of terminology can cause misunderstandings.

    my job is working on electronics and fixing computers so no not really.. been working on computers since before www was around.. ran a BBS on my old Mac II and hosted a couple MUDs back in the day as well

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • ^ I wouldn't own up to that after completely misunderstanding simple terminology that according to you is in a related professional field.
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Deznts
    ^ I wouldn't own up to that after completely misunderstanding simple terminology that according to you is in a related professional field.

    you are making up your own definitions for the terminology but guess you can believe what you want to believe

     

     

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Deznts
    ^ I wouldn't own up to that after completely misunderstanding simple terminology that according to you is in a related professional field.

    you are making up your own definitions for the terminology but guess you can believe what you want to believe

     

     

    I went on to in great detail break down to you in simple terms the definitions at hand. With factual technical information.

    You back your misunderstanding with recollections of what you managed to do on a computer 20 years ago. Bravo.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Deznts
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by Deznts
    ^ I wouldn't own up to that after completely misunderstanding simple terminology that according to you is in a related professional field.

    you are making up your own definitions for the terminology but guess you can believe what you want to believe

     

     

    I went on to in great detail break down to you in simple terms the definitions at hand. With factual technical information.

    You back your misunderstanding with recollections of what you managed to do on a computer 20 years ago. Bravo.

    some random guy posting a couple sentances on a forum is hardly factual information.. i could write you a ten page essay on how the world is really flat does not make it any more true...

    Instancing has always been very simple it's any area that will generate multiple copies of itself for indviduals, groups, or when a player threshold is met.

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • RawizRawiz HelsinkiPosts: 469Member Uncommon

    I feel for Deznts. It's not easy to explain the difference of having an entire continent (10+ zones in it) and having every single zone that has a different name instanced. If a game is instanced, you will have a loadscreen every single time you leave one, like AOC. If your game isn't instanced (in the classic word), you have no load screen while moving across zones in a CONTINENT. If you can't move to another ZONE in the continent, without a loading screen, you're being instanced. AOC did this thing on every single zone there is, I don't know how one could claim a game like that isn't instanced (ie 50 people in this shard, another 50 on other).

    You're right, it's just that some do not understand the difference. Not that surprising either.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Rawiz

    I feel for Deznts. It's not easy to explain the difference of having an entire continent (10+ zones in it) and having every single zone that has a different name instanced. If a game is instanced, you will have a loadscreen every single time you leave one, like AOC. If your game isn't instanced (in the classic word), you have no load screen while moving across zones in a CONTINENT. If you can't move to another ZONE in the continent, without a loading screen, you're being instanced. AOC did this thing on every single zone there is, I don't know how one could claim a game like that isn't instanced (ie 50 people in this shard, another 50 on other).

    You're right, it's just that some do not understand the difference. Not that surprising either.

    you are confusing what is zoning and instancing still... loading screens themselves don't make something zoning or make it instancing either.. if that was the case wow would be instanced since you get a loading screen when using a zepplin..you can easily have a loading screen between every single zone and the game have no instancing

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • kilunkilun Apopka, FLPosts: 709Member Common

    Julian,

    I'll break it down for you.  What you listed in terms of endgame, the game is not for you.  The game is introducing more RP mechanics(next months playset thing) and has achievements for monster kill quest etc if you enjoy that type of thing.

    9 Different weapon types means lots of options, especially when just killing outside of any dungeon.  One day I'll roll as a "Blast" attack machine and the next I'll as a solo-target killing monster, switch it up to a pbaoe focused toon, etc.  That alone has gotten me hours of fun by being able to play and adapt as I wish.

    Lairs- Open area quest zones that you slaughter enemies to get blueprints(puzzle pieces, need 9) to summon a boss that your group can kill.  Summon and destroy enough of those to get the Main boss to get NM quality Loot drops, more importantly, epic signets.

    PVP in fusang is nothing more than capture the and pass currently.  Some people have a blast in them, others do not.  Go in on the trial and see if you dig it.

    This game is a setting game IMO, most people just dig the setting.  But if all your looking at is the endgame, all MMOs are going to basically be the same until someone events a player created economy ala SWG pre-cu that is worth a damn.

    www.ozumgames.com

  • OrtwigOrtwig Cambridge, MAPosts: 1,159Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by JulianDracos

    So I am looking for a new game and I am thinking of trying this.  However, I won't be able to expereince the entire game in the short trial length.  So I am hoping some active players can shed light on some later aspects of the game.

    Let me begin by saying that I prefer oldre style games.  Games that tried to capture more of the table top rpg aspects in a computer model.  Games from WoW onward have a different type of gameplay and I do not really like them.  After a couple of months I get bored.  Here is why I get bored.

    1.  Really fast leveling makes it so that I rush through all of the content.

    It all depends on how you level.  If you take your time, do the investigation missions and sabotage missions without looking up all the answers on Google, you can have a very, very nice leveling experience.  If you "power thru" locust style, you will be dissatisfied with the amount of content.  TSW has probably one of the deepest storylines of any MMO, but if you are used to just combatting through and not paying attention as you go, I wouldn't recommend the game.

    2.  End game focused on PvE gear grinding in raids.  You do raids to get gear so that you can do other raids.  At least in DAOC you did raids to get gear for RvR. 

    There are nightmare mode dungeons and lairs at end game, and you can certainly gear grind at the end if you choose, but again it really depends on how you play.  A Raid in NYC is coming in the next major patch, and developers have spoken of "puzzle raids" as an upcoming feature, mixing the investigation stuff with combat.  PvP is there in Fusang, and although people complain about it, others says it's fun for a bit -- I believe some PvP improvements are scheduled for the next patch, due in the next few weeks.  You can aslo choose to progress horizontally by expanding out skills on the ability wheel and experimenting with different decks.

    3.  Instanced raids.  I do not like it where you are limited to an instance with 6-24 people.  I prefer the old style raids of 100+ people in open areas.

    The raid is set for 10 people, so you may not be happy with TSW raids, but again, I believe they're looking to do some different things with raids long term.  TSW dungeons tend to have less trash, but also have some interesting mechanics that challenge the group's builds.

    4.  Quest grinding.  I enjoy the quests, but after I level up two characters I can't stand the quests anymore.  All I want to do is go to a dungeon and kill some things to level. 

    Can't help much here -- you may be surprised that there are only 3 character slots in TSW since basically every character can perform any role in the game -- they have access to every ability

    5.  Instanced PvP.  I prefer open world PvP.  I do not mean like ganking, but instead that there are designated places to fight.  I prefer factions being able to fight each other instead of 2ST. 

    Fusang is the only open area at this time, and there are 2 battlegrounds -- Stonehenge and El Dorado.  PvP is definitely not TSW's strength, but again improvements on the way in the next patch

    6.  The quests require no thought.  You just follow the map to the destination.  I miss having to figure things out even if it is just following directions to a spot. 

     This, you'd be happy with.  There are circled areas, and such, but there is also way to turn off all the quest hints and circled areas.  For the investigation missions, just make sure you type in -tsw on your Google searches so that you don't get spoilers.  The quests are some of the most engaging of any MMO on the market right now, and the sabotage and investigation missions are unique to this MMO - many puzzles that involve no combat at all.  There are plenty of action missions as well.

     

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