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So I hear all these people saying...

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  • PapadamPapadam Tampa bay, FLPosts: 2,102Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by xalvi
    Originally posted by GolbezTheLion
    Originally posted by xalvi
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Czanrei

    I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then.

    That's because by the time they changed the name to LotRO, they had changed the gameplay to be a WoW clone. Were you in alpha testing for MIDDLE EARTH ONLINE? Because that's a bit different.

     

    HA! 

    That was epic, one of the best counter-attack i have seen on these forums.

    Middle Earth Online never even made it out of concept stages, there was no alpha.

    Yeah, great counter-argument!  /facepalm

     

    Well, im sorry i don't spend all my time and life devoted for gaming and useless information such as the one you provided me because there is no MEO. I saw a comment and someone countering it (regardless if it is false or not) and laughed irl. 

    Truth be told...this is a WoW clone mmo so there you go.

     

    Ill just resort to the typed emotion buttons    /facepalm

    Oh I see, so game companies are only allowed to make games in the genres YOU like...

    Hmmm then I HATE Betheda for making open world single player rpgs. They should be making FPS instead! I like thoose.

    The WOW clone argument is as stupid now as it was 5 years ago.

    The WoW clone argument was never stupid. A game should never be a cheap carbon copy of another mediocre game. It should stand on its own. Much worse when you take a good game, remove all the good parts, just to be similar to WoW to try to cash in on a trend. Games should NEVER be made like that, or you get soulless tripe like LotRO and AoC and Rift.

    So you actually think that all games should be designed to cater to you and be of genres that you like?

    Seems abit narcissistic to me...

    I didnt like WoW very much but I still can see that  its a very good game and extremly well designed. If you don't see that then I don't know what to say.

    And btw, theres alot of differences between WoW, LotrO and AoC.

    MEO was just a bad idea and its better to just let it live on in dreams..

     

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by xalvi
    Originally posted by GolbezTheLion
    Originally posted by xalvi
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Czanrei

    I was in the alpha testing for Lotro and it was never a sandbox even back then.

    That's because by the time they changed the name to LotRO, they had changed the gameplay to be a WoW clone. Were you in alpha testing for MIDDLE EARTH ONLINE? Because that's a bit different.

     

    HA! 

    That was epic, one of the best counter-attack i have seen on these forums.

    Middle Earth Online never even made it out of concept stages, there was no alpha.

    Yeah, great counter-argument!  /facepalm

     

    Well, im sorry i don't spend all my time and life devoted for gaming and useless information such as the one you provided me because there is no MEO. I saw a comment and someone countering it (regardless if it is false or not) and laughed irl. 

    Truth be told...this is a WoW clone mmo so there you go.

     

    Ill just resort to the typed emotion buttons    /facepalm

    Oh I see, so game companies are only allowed to make games in the genres YOU like...

    Hmmm then I HATE Betheda for making open world single player rpgs. They should be making FPS instead! I like thoose.

    The WOW clone argument is as stupid now as it was 5 years ago.

    The WoW clone argument was never stupid. A game should never be a cheap carbon copy of another mediocre game. It should stand on its own. Much worse when you take a good game, remove all the good parts, just to be similar to WoW to try to cash in on a trend. Games should NEVER be made like that, or you get soulless tripe like LotRO and AoC and Rift.

    So you actually think that all games should be designed to cater to you and be of genres that you like?

     

    And btw, theres alot of differences between WoW, LotrO and AoC.

    MEO was just a bad idea and its better to just let it live on in dreams..

     

    I believe games should have their own merit and not copy someone else's IP in a desperate hope to leech off their success, yes. I believe games shouldn't shovel more garbage into an already saturated genre. They should create something that is their own. If I wanted WOW I'd play WoW. 

    And the differences between those games is superficial at best. Very minor and slight differences. Those who didn't play pre WoW MMOs see the small differences as big. BUt those who were used to the massive amount of differences all pre WoW MMOs had from one another, the differences between those three games are pathetic. 

     

    And why was MEO a bad idea? [mod edit]

  • xalvixalvi brooklyn, NYPosts: 329Member
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    So you actually think that all games should be designed to cater to you and be of genres that you like?

     

    And btw, theres alot of differences between WoW, LotrO and AoC.

    MEO was just a bad idea and its better to just let it live on in dreams..

     

    I believe games should have their own merit and not copy someone else's IP in a desperate hope to leech off their success, yes. I believe games shouldn't shovel more garbage into an already saturated genre. They should create something that is their own. If I wanted WOW I'd play WoW. 

    And the differences between those games is superficial at best. Very minor and slight differences. Those who didn't play pre WoW MMOs see the small differences as big. BUt those who were used to the massive amount of differences all pre WoW MMOs had from one another, the differences between those three games are pathetic. 

     

    And why was MEO a bad idea? Or are you just a troll. You don't seem to have any idea what MEO was. 

    [mod edit]

     

    [mod edit]

    Have you seen the "expansions" for the last couple of years? Pretty bad and lack of content. Do you notice that every server other than Brandy, E, and landy is dead? Most of all, did you know this game is F2P?

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by xalvi
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    So you actually think that all games should be designed to cater to you and be of genres that you like?

     

    And btw, theres alot of differences between WoW, LotrO and AoC.

    MEO was just a bad idea and its better to just let it live on in dreams..

     

    I believe games should have their own merit and not copy someone else's IP in a desperate hope to leech off their success, yes. I believe games shouldn't shovel more garbage into an already saturated genre. They should create something that is their own. If I wanted WOW I'd play WoW. 

    And the differences between those games is superficial at best. Very minor and slight differences. Those who didn't play pre WoW MMOs see the small differences as big. BUt those who were used to the massive amount of differences all pre WoW MMOs had from one another, the differences between those three games are pathetic. 

     

    And why was MEO a bad idea? Or are you just a troll. You don't seem to have any idea what MEO was. 

    [mod edit]

     

    [mod edit]

    Have you seen the "expansions" for the last couple of years? Pretty bad and lack of content. Do you notice that every server other than Brandy, E, and landy is dead? Most of all, did you know this game is F2P?

    Not to mention all the Earner's Reports for Warner Brothers showing that Turbine is losing them money. They went to FTP in a desperate gambit to keep their game afloat, and it worked, very VERY temporarily. Notice how Turbine isn't touting any new numbers or growth since the first month of FTP? 

    The biggest IP in the world, fresh off the release of the biggest trilogy in the history of cinema.... 

    and it couldn't even stay afloat. 

    Would have done better if it had actually been a unique game instead of trying to leech off WoW and forever being put in WoW's shadow. 

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,931Member Uncommon

    It's funny that people honestly believed LOTRO would have been more successful if it was a sandbox game.  Let me tell you why LOTRO failed:

     

    1) One faction game in a universe that screams 2 factions.  TPTB want you to believe that the Saul Zaentz company wouldn't allow it.  But if you'd look at all of the lore breaking in every other middle earth game the Zaentz company authorizes, you'd see that as a coverup for the fact that Turbine couldn't afford to make content for two factions.

     

    2) Separate entity from the films.  Another cost cutting and budget issue along with a licensing nightmare.  That didn't stop them from making online advertising art with characters that look a lot like Viggo, Liv and Elijah.  They also failed to take advantage of the films by allowing them to start in a small portion of Rohan/Gondor/Lothlorien and get sent to the west of the Misty Mountains after the starting area.

     

    3) Slow and boring combat.  The classes were all pretty boring and subpar for the market.

     

    4) Very little advertising for release or MoM.  The only advertising push that was made was for the switch to F2P.

     

    5) WOW clone without the depth or addon support.

     

    6) Lifetime accounts.  These accounts helped them out in the first couple of years but after that they were basically hosed.  Lifetime accounts on release should be reserved for games unlikely to even break even or survive 2 years.

     

    7) They stopped delivering content as promised.  This is likely due to sales/subs being far below expectations.  This is why SoM was such a tiny and unsuccessful expansion and led to them going F2P.  They also had a lot of content just about ready on release that they held back.

     

    8) Poor immersion overall.  You have to be a major Tolkien fan to feel immersed in LOTRO areas other than the shire.  This area would obviously have benefitted from sandbox elements.

     

    9) Limited by what's in the licensed books and appendices.  Makes it very limiting to a developer of any Hobbit/LOTR based MMO.  Now if Christopher Tolkien would let someone make an MMO based on the Silmarillion and all other middle earth publications after LOTR ...

     

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    It's funny that people honestly believed LOTRO would have been more successful if it was a sandbox game.  

     

    I think it would have been more succesful if it wasn't a WoW clone. Sandbox or not. Unique games tend to pull and hold people more than cheap knock offs. 

  • FrodoFraginsFrodoFragins Manchester, NHPosts: 2,931Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    All the trade reports say that LotRO is bleeding WB (LotRO's publishers) dry and barely making enough money to stay afloat.

    Middle Earth Online may not have lasted long term, but it would have been a bit more prolific I think, considering LotRO is so bland and unoriginal there's not a ton you can really say about it. If it wasn't for the Lord of the Rings brand it would have faded away long ago.

    Any sources?

     

    I have a hard time believing that WB can't make money off of LOTRO for years on end.  They already release way less content than any AAA MMO I'm aware of.  It's also always released buggy.

     

    The worst case for WB is to drastically reduce the team and just release quest packs once a year.  They'd still make a lot of money doing that.

  • PapadamPapadam Tampa bay, FLPosts: 2,102Member
    Originally posted by xalvi
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    So you actually think that all games should be designed to cater to you and be of genres that you like?

     

    And btw, theres alot of differences between WoW, LotrO and AoC.

    MEO was just a bad idea and its better to just let it live on in dreams..

     

    I believe games should have their own merit and not copy someone else's IP in a desperate hope to leech off their success, yes. I believe games shouldn't shovel more garbage into an already saturated genre. They should create something that is their own. If I wanted WOW I'd play WoW. 

    And the differences between those games is superficial at best. Very minor and slight differences. Those who didn't play pre WoW MMOs see the small differences as big. BUt those who were used to the massive amount of differences all pre WoW MMOs had from one another, the differences between those three games are pathetic. 

     

    And why was MEO a bad idea? Or are you just a troll. You don't seem to have any idea what MEO was. 

    [mod edit]

     

    [mod edit]

    Have you seen the "expansions" for the last couple of years? Pretty bad and lack of content. Do you notice that every server other than Brandy, E, and landy is dead? Most of all, did you know this game is F2P?

    Both Turbines F2P MMOs released major expansions this year and they recently hired some big names in an industry thats is having alot of trouble.

    Yea, actions speak louder than the ramblings of haters..

    I play on one of the smallest servers, guess what? There are alot of people playing.

    And yes the game has a F2P option. Whats your point?

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    I don't really expect to take anyone seriously who compares WoW to the Beatles in their signature. More like Justin Beiber or the Jonas Brothers, would be a more accurate fit. 

     

    In any case, Turbine has not announced player numbers since the first shift to FTP, which means they've been losing players, not gaining them, else they'd be reporting better revenue. Dig up some of the invester reports if you can, Turbine isn't a hot product. 

  • Po_ggPo_gg Twigwarren, WestfarthingPosts: 2,722Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    I don't really expect to take anyone seriously who compares WoW to the Beatles in their signature. More like Justin Beiber or the Jonas Brothers, would be a more accurate fit. 

     

    In any case, Turbine has not announced player numbers since the first shift to FTP, which means they've been losing players, not gaining them, else they'd be reporting better revenue. Dig up some of the invester reports if you can, Turbine isn't a hot product. 

    Actually it's a nice signature :) Though I like the Beatles and never liked wow, the line there is pretty accurate. And Floyd rocks, just as LotRO. But I guess it's offtopic.

  • RimmersmanRimmersman MonacoPosts: 885Member
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    It's funny that people honestly believed LOTRO would have been more successful if it was a sandbox game.  Let me tell you why LOTRO failed:

     What is fuuny is that you think lotro fauiled lolololololololol

    1) One faction game in a universe that screams 2 factions.  TPTB want you to believe that the Saul Zaentz company wouldn't allow it.  But if you'd look at all of the lore breaking in every other middle earth game the Zaentz company authorizes, you'd see that as a coverup for the fact that Turbine couldn't afford to make content for two factions.

     

    2) Separate entity from the films.  Another cost cutting and budget issue along with a licensing nightmare.  That didn't stop them from making online advertising art with characters that look a lot like Viggo, Liv and Elijah.  They also failed to take advantage of the films by allowing them to start in a small portion of Rohan/Gondor/Lothlorien and get sent to the west of the Misty Mountains after the starting area.

     

    3) Slow and boring combat.  The classes were all pretty boring and subpar for the market.

     

    4) Very little advertising for release or MoM.  The only advertising push that was made was for the switch to F2P.

     

    5) WOW clone without the depth or addon support.

     

    6) Lifetime accounts.  These accounts helped them out in the first couple of years but after that they were basically hosed.  Lifetime accounts on release should be reserved for games unlikely to even break even or survive 2 years.

     

    7) They stopped delivering content as promised.  This is likely due to sales/subs being far below expectations.  This is why SoM was such a tiny and unsuccessful expansion and led to them going F2P.  They also had a lot of content just about ready on release that they held back.

     

    8) Poor immersion overall.  You have to be a major Tolkien fan to feel immersed in LOTRO areas other than the shire.  This area would obviously have benefitted from sandbox elements.

     

    9) Limited by what's in the licensed books and appendices.  Makes it very limiting to a developer of any Hobbit/LOTR based MMO.  Now if Christopher Tolkien would let someone make an MMO based on the Silmarillion and all other middle earth publications after LOTR ...

     

    Failed, which part?

    image
  • PapadamPapadam Tampa bay, FLPosts: 2,102Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    I don't really expect to take anyone seriously who compares WoW to the Beatles in their signature. More like Justin Beiber or the Jonas Brothers, would be a more accurate fit. 

     

    In any case, Turbine has not announced player numbers since the first shift to FTP, which means they've been losing players, not gaining them, else they'd be reporting better revenue. Dig up some of the invester reports if you can, Turbine isn't a hot product. 

    It just means that you missed the point again, and the meaning of the word "if".

    Turbine have never released any player numbers so why would they start now? But  most mmos loose players over time.

    They did announce that RoI was their best selling expansion though (released 1 year after f2p)

    to bad that RoI was a really bad expansion

    but they are making it up big time with how good RoR is. 

    If WoW = The Beatles
    and WAR = Led Zeppelin
    Then LotrO = Pink Floyd

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    I don't really expect to take anyone seriously who compares WoW to the Beatles in their signature. More like Justin Beiber or the Jonas Brothers, would be a more accurate fit. 

     

    In any case, Turbine has not announced player numbers since the first shift to FTP, which means they've been losing players, not gaining them, else they'd be reporting better revenue. Dig up some of the invester reports if you can, Turbine isn't a hot product. 

    It just means that you missed the point again, and the meaning of the word "if".

    Turbine have never released any player numbers so why would they start now? But  most mmos loose players over time.

    They did announce that RoI was their best selling expansion though (released 1 year after f2p)

    to bad that RoI was a really bad expansion

    but they are making it up big time with how good RoR is. 

    Turbine has released revenue reports, and they are LEGALLY required to report to Warner Brothers. All signs show that they weren't doing well. And it's evident in the game, by its stagnation, that they haven't been doing well.

    And good MMOs grow over time, not shrink.

     

    But no, none of you believed me. Well, take a look at the recent news. You don't fire developers if you're successful.

  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Pacific Northwest, WAPosts: 682Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    I don't really expect to take anyone seriously who compares WoW to the Beatles in their signature. More like Justin Beiber or the Jonas Brothers, would be a more accurate fit. 

     

    In any case, Turbine has not announced player numbers since the first shift to FTP, which means they've been losing players, not gaining them, else they'd be reporting better revenue. Dig up some of the invester reports if you can, Turbine isn't a hot product. 

    It just means that you missed the point again, and the meaning of the word "if".

    Turbine have never released any player numbers so why would they start now? But  most mmos loose players over time.

    They did announce that RoI was their best selling expansion though (released 1 year after f2p)

    to bad that RoI was a really bad expansion

    but they are making it up big time with how good RoR is. 

    Turbine has released revenue reports, and they are LEGALLY required to report to Warner Brothers. All signs show that they weren't doing well. And it's evident in the game, by its stagnation, that they haven't been doing well.

    And good MMOs grow over time, not shrink.

     

    But no, none of you believed me. Well, take a look at the recent news. You don't fire developers if you're successful.

    Never worked for a large organization, have you?

    Companies lay off all the time, for a variety of reasons. Not always due to a product failure.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    I don't really expect to take anyone seriously who compares WoW to the Beatles in their signature. More like Justin Beiber or the Jonas Brothers, would be a more accurate fit. 

     

    In any case, Turbine has not announced player numbers since the first shift to FTP, which means they've been losing players, not gaining them, else they'd be reporting better revenue. Dig up some of the invester reports if you can, Turbine isn't a hot product. 

    It just means that you missed the point again, and the meaning of the word "if".

    Turbine have never released any player numbers so why would they start now? But  most mmos loose players over time.

    They did announce that RoI was their best selling expansion though (released 1 year after f2p)

    to bad that RoI was a really bad expansion

    but they are making it up big time with how good RoR is. 

    Turbine has released revenue reports, and they are LEGALLY required to report to Warner Brothers. All signs show that they weren't doing well. And it's evident in the game, by its stagnation, that they haven't been doing well.

    And good MMOs grow over time, not shrink.

     

    But no, none of you believed me. Well, take a look at the recent news. You don't fire developers if you're successful.

    Never worked for a large organization, have you?

    Companies lay off all the time, for a variety of reasons. Not always due to a product failure.

    MMO companies do NOT lay off a chunk of staff if they're growing. Period. They may get rid of a few individuals here and there, but if a game is doing great, skies the limit, you don't start getting read of your team. 

    But I guess Funcom dissolving half of its partners was a sign that AoC was great! Or when Sigil all got bought and fired by SoE. Or when Bioware lost most of their devs. All signs of MMOs doing great!

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by FrodoFragins

    It's funny that people honestly believed LOTRO would have been more successful if it was a sandbox game.  Let me tell you why LOTRO failed:

     

    1) One faction game in a universe that screams 2 factions.  TPTB want you to believe that the Saul Zaentz company wouldn't allow it.  But if you'd look at all of the lore breaking in every other middle earth game the Zaentz company authorizes, you'd see that as a coverup for the fact that Turbine couldn't afford to make content for two factions.

    Eh, it doesnt scream two faction to me at all.  There just isnt anything that interesting about Sauron's forces.  Really all you have is varieties of orcs and maybe some men.  And outside of pillaging a vaillage and collecting 10 hobbit asses for Sauron there really isnt all that much you could expect to do.  The evil forces are just slaves, and whats the fun of being a slave?

     

    2) Separate entity from the films.  Another cost cutting and budget issue along with a licensing nightmare.  That didn't stop them from making online advertising art with characters that look a lot like Viggo, Liv and Elijah.  They also failed to take advantage of the films by allowing them to start in a small portion of Rohan/Gondor/Lothlorien and get sent to the west of the Misty Mountains after the starting area.

    I dont think this is a big issue. 

     

    3) Slow and boring combat.  The classes were all pretty boring and subpar for the market.

     DING DING DING!  The combat feels sluggish, and the classes are boring.  Moria did bring two pretty interesting classes though, but the combat just feels like wading through molasses

    4) Very little advertising for release or MoM.  The only advertising push that was made was for the switch to F2P.

    This was back in the days when games were still sold in stores so it had the free shelf space advertising, and of course heavy magazine and website advertising.  I think they reached people fine

     

    5) WOW clone without the depth or addon support.

    I dont think the WoW clone factor hurt it, beause it was the first WoW clone.  And addon support really isnt a dealbreaker to most people.  The WoW factor that hurt was the combat.  WoW had fluid, super smooth combat.  It made LOTRO feel clunky.

     

    6) Lifetime accounts.  These accounts helped them out in the first couple of years but after that they were basically hosed.  Lifetime accounts on release should be reserved for games unlikely to even break even or survive 2 years.

    yup

     

    7) They stopped delivering content as promised.  This is likely due to sales/subs being far below expectations.  This is why SoM was such a tiny and unsuccessful expansion and led to them going F2P.  They also had a lot of content just about ready on release that they held back.

    I think the drop off started before SoM, but they certianly havent done themselves any favors since

     

    8) Poor immersion overall.  You have to be a major Tolkien fan to feel immersed in LOTRO areas other than the shire.  This area would obviously have benefitted from sandbox elements.

    I think its ok.  Its a step up from games like Rift but a step down from EQ2, and nowhere near a game like EQ1.  Very few MMOs nail immersion.  EQ1 did.  GW2 does in the cities but loses it a bit in the wild.  I don't think immersion is really a sandbox thing, but I think you have to work harder for immersion in a non sandbox game.

     

    9) Limited by what's in the licensed books and appendices.  Makes it very limiting to a developer of any Hobbit/LOTR based MMO.  Now if Christopher Tolkien would let someone make an MMO based on the Silmarillion and all other middle earth publications after LOTR ...

    yup, LOTRO is a *very* restrictive IP.  Not so much you can really do with it, since its contorlled pretty tightly.

     

     

  • mymmomymmo StockholmPosts: 300Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    I don't really expect to take anyone seriously who compares WoW to the Beatles in their signature. More like Justin Beiber or the Jonas Brothers, would be a more accurate fit. 

     

    In any case, Turbine has not announced player numbers since the first shift to FTP, which means they've been losing players, not gaining them, else they'd be reporting better revenue. Dig up some of the invester reports if you can, Turbine isn't a hot product. 

    It just means that you missed the point again, and the meaning of the word "if".

    Turbine have never released any player numbers so why would they start now? But  most mmos loose players over time.

    They did announce that RoI was their best selling expansion though (released 1 year after f2p)

    to bad that RoI was a really bad expansion

    but they are making it up big time with how good RoR is. 

    Turbine has released revenue reports, and they are LEGALLY required to report to Warner Brothers. All signs show that they weren't doing well. And it's evident in the game, by its stagnation, that they haven't been doing well.

    And good MMOs grow over time, not shrink.

     

    But no, none of you believed me. Well, take a look at the recent news. You don't fire developers if you're successful.

    Never worked for a large organization, have you?

    Companies lay off all the time, for a variety of reasons. Not always due to a product failure.

    MMO companies do NOT lay off a chunk of staff if they're growing. Period. They may get rid of a few individuals here and there, but if a game is doing great, skies the limit, you don't start getting read of your team. 

    But I guess Funcom dissolving half of its partners was a sign that AoC was great! Or when Sigil all got bought and fired by SoE. Or when Bioware lost most of their devs. All signs of MMOs doing great!

    Yes they do. MMOs are built as projects. In the company there is a core staff that and there is a hired staff  during the work with the project. When a mmo has been shipped out the hired staff has to look for new projects. While the core staff is doing the patching and so on.  Or are you saying that a company that develops MMOs should never lay off their staff?

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  • GaborikGaborik Roseville, MNPosts: 251Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    I don't really expect to take anyone seriously who compares WoW to the Beatles in their signature. More like Justin Beiber or the Jonas Brothers, would be a more accurate fit.    In any case, Turbine has not announced player numbers since the first shift to FTP, which means they've been losing players, not gaining them, else they'd be reporting better revenue. Dig up some of the invester reports if you can, Turbine isn't a hot product. 

    It just means that you missed the point again, and the meaning of the word "if".

    Turbine have never released any player numbers so why would they start now? But  most mmos loose players over time.

    They did announce that RoI was their best selling expansion though (released 1 year after f2p)

    to bad that RoI was a really bad expansion

    but they are making it up big time with how good RoR is. 

    Turbine has released revenue reports, and they are LEGALLY required to report to Warner Brothers. All signs show that they weren't doing well. And it's evident in the game, by its stagnation, that they haven't been doing well.

    And good MMOs grow over time, not shrink.

     

    But no, none of you believed me. Well, take a look at the recent news. You don't fire developers if you're successful.

     

    Well first they didnt say what team they were released from or how many. Second they just hired 5 experienced developers. Third here is a list of MMOs that have come out in the last 5 years that have done a lot worse than Lotro. Age of Conan, Sto, Vangaurd, Tera, The Secret World, TOR, all points bulletin, also there is rift but would say its on par with Lotro. I am sure there are more, my point is the game is active and very healthy. They just released what is looking like a very good expansion. Seems to be a few haters out there who dont play anymore and feel the beed to express their opinion on a game they dont play. There is nothing wrong with not liking a game thats your choice but to spew false claims claims about any game is sad and immature.
  • psiicatpsiicat St Petersburg, FLPosts: 29Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by trancejeremy
    Yup, that was a completely different game from another company that never materialized.

    Wrong.

     

    I don't understand why people keep making this mistake.

     

     

    Middle Earth Online was in development by Sierra in 1999. It got shut down.

     

    Vivendi and Turbine began developing a game called Middle Earth Online in about 2003 , and continued to develop it until it launched as Lord of the Rings Online.

    In Alpha, LotRO was a sandbox game being made by veteran Turbine devs. It's tag line was "live in Middle Earth". The game was very community based, sandbox and book accuracy focus. The devs hosted events once a year called Turbine Nation where people came together and got to see the game as it came along, play in various events and raffles, essentially a big party.

     

    Well, about a year before LotRO's launch, Vivendi lost the rights to Lord of the Rings, and Turbine gained entire control over the MMO. Turbine changed Middle Earth Online's name to LotRO, shuffled most of the veteran staff to other projects, and put new developers at the helm of LotRO. They quickly scrapped most of the old work and restructured the game to be a quest based WoW clone. There were no more yearly Turbine Nation gathering, the community disintegrated. The game tag line was changed to "Fight through Middle Earth!".

     

    It was essentially the NGE, but because it happened in beta, people don't talk about it nearly as much. But for those that were there, we felt betrayed. It splintered the community, kinships fell apart. Then they announced there wouldn't be any international servers, after promising the opposite, and the remaining kinships fractured again.

     

    Don't believe that Turbine was working on it? Here's the pre alpha trailer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk0ogD_HMn0

     

    Also, in before "hurp derp that looks like crap, glad they changed it".

     

     

    Hmm this is a rather odd post seeing as I was one of the original 25 firends and family testers in the dev led guild the Pink Alpha Faries and the experience I had was way different than what you are describing.  The alpha I tested was basically just a rough build of the same game that exsists today.

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by Gaborik
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    I don't really expect to take anyone seriously who compares WoW to the Beatles in their signature. More like Justin Beiber or the Jonas Brothers, would be a more accurate fit. 

     

    In any case, Turbine has not announced player numbers since the first shift to FTP, which means they've been losing players, not gaining them, else they'd be reporting better revenue. Dig up some of the invester reports if you can, Turbine isn't a hot product. 

    It just means that you missed the point again, and the meaning of the word "if".

    Turbine have never released any player numbers so why would they start now? But  most mmos loose players over time.

    They did announce that RoI was their best selling expansion though (released 1 year after f2p)

    to bad that RoI was a really bad expansion

    but they are making it up big time with how good RoR is. 

    Turbine has released revenue reports, and they are LEGALLY required to report to Warner Brothers. All signs show that they weren't doing well. And it's evident in the game, by its stagnation, that they haven't been doing well.

    And good MMOs grow over time, not shrink.

     

    But no, none of you believed me. Well, take a look at the recent news. You don't fire developers if you're successful.

     

    Well first they didnt say what team they were released from or how many. Second they just hired 5 experienced developers. Third here is a list of MMOs that have come out in the last 5 years that have done a lot worse than Lotro. Age of Conan, Sto, Vangaurd, Tera, The Secret World, TOR, all points bulletin, also there is rift but would say its on par with Lotro. I am sure there are more, my point is the game is active and very healthy. They just released what is looking like a very good expansion. Seems to be a few haters out there who dont play anymore and feel the beed to express their opinion on a game they dont play. There is nothing wrong with not liking a game thats your choice but to spew false claims claims about any game is sad and immature.

    This is your opinion. Other opinions I heard is that the latest expansions were overpriced and mostly consisted of quest packs. Also I heard that the cash-shop is turning more and more into a Pay2Win one with ability to max your crafting skill. And now they have fired a bunch of people as well.

    So personally I would never touch this game, it got bad signs written all over it and the combat looks horribly boring and dated.

  • GaborikGaborik Roseville, MNPosts: 251Member
    Originally posted by Yamota

    Originally posted by Gaborik
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Papadam
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    I don't really expect to take anyone seriously who compares WoW to the Beatles in their signature. More like Justin Beiber or the Jonas Brothers, would be a more accurate fit.    In any case, Turbine has not announced player numbers since the first shift to FTP, which means they've been losing players, not gaining them, else they'd be reporting better revenue. Dig up some of the invester reports if you can, Turbine isn't a hot product. 

    It just means that you missed the point again, and the meaning of the word "if".

    Turbine have never released any player numbers so why would they start now? But  most mmos loose players over time.

    They did announce that RoI was their best selling expansion though (released 1 year after f2p)

    to bad that RoI was a really bad expansion

    but they are making it up big time with how good RoR is. 

    Turbine has released revenue reports, and they are LEGALLY required to report to Warner Brothers. All signs show that they weren't doing well. And it's evident in the game, by its stagnation, that they haven't been doing well.

    And good MMOs grow over time, not shrink.

     

    But no, none of you believed me. Well, take a look at the recent news. You don't fire developers if you're successful.

     

    Well first they didnt say what team they were released from or how many. Second they just hired 5 experienced developers. Third here is a list of MMOs that have come out in the last 5 years that have done a lot worse than Lotro. Age of Conan, Sto, Vangaurd, Tera, The Secret World, TOR, all points bulletin, also there is rift but would say its on par with Lotro. I am sure there are more, my point is the game is active and very healthy. They just released what is looking like a very good expansion. Seems to be a few haters out there who dont play anymore and feel the beed to express their opinion on a game they dont play. There is nothing wrong with not liking a game thats your choice but to spew false claims claims about any game is sad and immature.

    This is your opinion. Other opinions I heard is that the latest expansions were overpriced and mostly consisted of quest packs. Also I heard that the cash-shop is turning more and more into a Pay2Win one with ability to max your crafting skill. And now they have fired a bunch of people as well.

    So personally I would never touch this game, it got bad signs written all over it and the combat looks horribly boring and dated.

     

    Sure if you want to listen to people who dont play then sure thats all it is. But if you want the truth you would learn the expansion is a lot more like oh i dont know new tagging system, new loot system, new mounted combat, new moors area (thats pvp for those who dont know) one of the better stories in mmos continue, and an instance pack coming for ROR. Again they didnt say which team the layoffs were from. That crafting max thing is false. There is a scroll that will boost you an extra 50% per item crafted thats a long way from max tier. So sure you listen to the ones who dont play and call it a quest pack and a p2w cause those couldnt be further from the truth.
  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Pacific Northwest, WAPosts: 682Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    MMO companies do NOT lay off a chunk of staff if they're growing. Period. They may get rid of a few individuals here and there, but if a game is doing great, skies the limit, you don't start getting read of your team. 

    You do if your parent company tells you to do layoffs, regardless of your sucess/profitability. Wecome to the world of corporate decision-making.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by psiicat
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by trancejeremy
    Yup, that was a completely different game from another company that never materialized.

    Wrong.

     

    I don't understand why people keep making this mistake.

     

     

    Middle Earth Online was in development by Sierra in 1999. It got shut down.

     

    Vivendi and Turbine began developing a game called Middle Earth Online in about 2003 , and continued to develop it until it launched as Lord of the Rings Online.

    In Alpha, LotRO was a sandbox game being made by veteran Turbine devs. It's tag line was "live in Middle Earth". The game was very community based, sandbox and book accuracy focus. The devs hosted events once a year called Turbine Nation where people came together and got to see the game as it came along, play in various events and raffles, essentially a big party.

     

    Well, about a year before LotRO's launch, Vivendi lost the rights to Lord of the Rings, and Turbine gained entire control over the MMO. Turbine changed Middle Earth Online's name to LotRO, shuffled most of the veteran staff to other projects, and put new developers at the helm of LotRO. They quickly scrapped most of the old work and restructured the game to be a quest based WoW clone. There were no more yearly Turbine Nation gathering, the community disintegrated. The game tag line was changed to "Fight through Middle Earth!".

     

    It was essentially the NGE, but because it happened in beta, people don't talk about it nearly as much. But for those that were there, we felt betrayed. It splintered the community, kinships fell apart. Then they announced there wouldn't be any international servers, after promising the opposite, and the remaining kinships fractured again.

     

    Don't believe that Turbine was working on it? Here's the pre alpha trailer.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk0ogD_HMn0

     

    Also, in before "hurp derp that looks like crap, glad they changed it".

     

     

    Hmm this is a rather odd post seeing as I was one of the original 25 firends and family testers in the dev led guild the Pink Alpha Faries and the experience I had was way different than what you are describing.  The alpha I tested was basically just a rough build of the same game that exsists today.

    Did you friend and family test Middle Earth Online, or LotRO, because the two games were entirely different. I was from Elves of Imladris, which was the most influential/well known player guild. 

  • rwyanrwyan raleigh, NCPosts: 461Member

    I remember following MEO after Turbine inherited the project.  Based on what I remember, the game was going to be a bit more "old school" in nature... not necessarily sandbox but not the WoW-inspired clone it is today.  It was described as both class based and skill based (some skills shared amongst all/most classes).  An advanced class system was too be tied to some sort of alignment system (good vs evil).

     

    I also remember a lot of information being shared right before Turbine went into blackout mode... emerging with the game we have today.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by rwyan

    I remember following MEO after Turbine inherited the project.  Based on what I remember, the game was going to be a bit more "old school" in nature... not necessarily sandbox but not the WoW-inspired clone it is today.  It was described as both class based and skill based (some skills shared amongst all/most classes).  An advanced class system was too be tied to some sort of alignment system (good vs evil).

     

    I also remember a lot of information being shared right before Turbine went into blackout mode... emerging with the game we have today.

    9 months of total radio silence where people were begging for screenshots, videos, even a news post, anything. 

    Little did we know that the game we spent years building a community for was more or less entirely scrapped. The game got delayed AGAIN. The devs we'd built relationships with were sacked or moved to other projects. Awful. Worst, was that Turbine tried to play it off like this was a GREAT development that we should be excited about. "We now have singular control over the game! Woo!" 

    That's when I learned not to get excited for MMOs. 

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