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I give up.

24

Comments

  • ENTR0PYENTR0PY asdfkjasd, CAPosts: 62Member
    Originally posted by XAPGames
    Originally posted by Eazydzzz
    Remember when you played an mmo in 1999 and thought "man I wonder what these games will be like in 10 years"?
     

     

    Was playing Half-Life and Vanilla Unreal in 1999.

    Wondered what games will be like in 10 years?  Yep.  Can't say I'm impressed.

     

    Graphics have jumped.  Gameplay... not so much.

    People like you who live in the past please have no idea. The games today are improved if not better than the old games. Nostalgia makes everything you used to play seem better, but it's the opposite.

  • ENTR0PYENTR0PY asdfkjasd, CAPosts: 62Member
    Originally posted by roo67
    I think MMOs are going downhill generally speaking . The problem I think is that devlopers think they have to make the games easy to appeal to novice and casual gamers .

    Imagine investing millions into designing/creating a game and only a couple of thousands players subscribe because it's too hardcore. Developers have to eat too.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by Eazydzzz

    The fact that an "old school" game can be more mentally stimulating than a new game is sad.

     

     

    Chess has always been more mentally stimulating than tic-tac-toe, or Candyland.

    ....I'm not sure what point you're trying to reach; I'm just sure this is not a good thesis conclusion.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by haplo602
    in the past, gameplay was suplementing poor graphics. you had to have something to drive your imagination. you did not think in terms of looks but in terms of abilities.

    So...non-graphical games would be the most 'mentally stimulating' of all, automagically?

    Bring back those text-based MUDs!

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • ThorkuneThorkune Eastern, KYPosts: 1,828Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kb056
    SWG died almost a year ago. Won't ever happen again...

    I feel that true MMO's died the night SWG was shut down. I hope lyin' smed is seriously building a true sandbox in the new EQ game. But, I am not holding my breath.

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon

    Take a break.

     

    Come back and see if EQNext lives up to it's billing.

    You stay sassy!

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,187Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bigsmiff
    Originally posted by kb056
    SWG died almost a year ago. Won't ever happen again...

    I feel that true MMO's died the night SWG was shut down. I hope lyin' smed is seriously building a true sandbox in the new EQ game. But, I am not holding my breath.

    I feel a Don Mclean moment coming on.  I can see all the nostalgists holding hands and swaying in the breeze, the summer breeze.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    Probably the most ironic thing about this thread is that, apart from maybe Eve, MMOs have never really been all that challenging. The hardest part of MMOs, for a long time, has either been in getting enough decent players to login for a raid, or to get that lucky drop that allows you to do the next thing. I can't remember a single MMO that really required all that much thought, even thinking back to the very first games.

    What made them fun was that they were still a new concept to explore. However, when it came to difficulty, they were nowhere near on par w/ most of the other genres. This isn't to say that certain games didn't have more difficult raids, but by & large MMOs were primarily very easy games. The 'skill' came in either knowing what to get & where to get it, or being able to use a search engine to find the right guides.

    This isn't to say that MMOs haven't been dumbed down to a certain degree. I think that much is obvious. The unfortunate truth is that any game that relies on having a healthy population to survive is going to have to appeal to a larger audience. Meaning sacrifices are going to have to be made in the name of accessibility. Sadly, this often means people need to be told what to do.

    When it comes to other genres, we're actually seeing a return of legitimately difficult games again. It's very refreshing. I haven't enjoyed dying so much in a long time.

  • ManestreamManestream PrestonPosts: 630Member Uncommon

    hey, i tend to stick with online games but also tend to wait for some sort of feedback (unless i am lucky enough to get in a beta/free play stage) running up to release of it.

    Single player games, cough, aye, i admit, i tend to download them, if there worth anything i will purchase it, sadly most are not worth it at all. There are currently 2 games i am wanting to check out, but just the fact that they are assosciated with steam puts me off (xcom and skyrim). skyrim is currently £20 but i wont bother untill it drops by at least 25% more just for the fact of it being associated with steam. xcom (new game) also assosciated with steam would have to drop down to under £20 as well.

    Other games i have looked at have been crap, alias i still stick with online mmo's (just to pass the time), but quickly getting bored of whats out there as any new release is basically a seen that done it same old crap with diff graphics.

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Manestream

    hey, i tend to stick with online games but also tend to wait for some sort of feedback (unless i am lucky enough to get in a beta/free play stage) running up to release of it.

    Single player games, cough, aye, i admit, i tend to download them, if there worth anything i will purchase it, sadly most are not worth it at all. There are currently 2 games i am wanting to check out, but just the fact that they are assosciated with steam puts me off (xcom and skyrim). skyrim is currently £20 but i wont bother untill it drops by at least 25% more just for the fact of it being associated with steam. xcom (new game) also assosciated with steam would have to drop down to under £20 as well.

    Other games i have looked at have been crap, alias i still stick with online mmo's (just to pass the time), but quickly getting bored of whats out there as any new release is basically a seen that done it same old crap with diff graphics.

    Woah woah woah..

    Not sure what your beef is w/ steam, but there are a TON of really good games out right now if you are looking outside of the MMO-shere. XCOM does have some issues, but it's an insanely fun game and I haven't met a single person playing it who doesn't agree. There's also FTL, Dishonored, BL2, TL2, Mark of the Ninja, etc. etc.

    I'm not sure how you can honestly think most of the games that have come out recently have all been crap, unless you just haven't been looking. These passed couple of months have been amazing for games. It's been a while since we had such a rich release year. I've actually had to hold off on buying games this year because there are just too many good games releasing all around the same time.

    Even with all the games I've just mentioned, there are still more games coming out soon which also look to be rather amazing.

  • AeliousAelious Portland, ORPosts: 2,849Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Eazydzzz

    Give up.  Seriously.  Playing Anarchy Online, Asheron's Call, hell even PSO.  That's all done.

    Remember when PC games made you think.  Like really think?

    PC games were for the smart people, sans diablo and warcraft of course.

    Deep, mentally engaging games that only a few understood.

    Remember being a nerd was actually an insult?  It didn't just mean you were some tight pants, hard rimed glasses wearing poser?

    Being a "nerd" was not a trendy term, it was what you got called by the jocks as a serious insult.  YOu could be a pussy and take it for what it was, or wear it as a badge of honor and find ingenious ways to  have sex with their sisters/mothers/girlfriends.

    Remember when you played an mmo in 1999 and thought "man I wonder what these games will be like in 10 years"?

    Did you picture pandas?  Did you picture a mindless pvp zerg gw2 grind?  Did you picture psuedo pedophlia mixed with wanna-be action combat a la tera?

    The Secret World is the only game that comes even remotely close to dreams.  But it sells nothing.  It's not even worth.

    When you watched star trek and imagined it as a virtual world, did you you picture STO??

    The first time you saw an original star wars movie, could you picture SWTOR?

    SWTOR is a destruction of dreams.

     

    But then I saw the video of the dude who made wing commander games wanting to make a new game.  His vision is the vision.  His vision of pc gaming in 2012 is accurate.  What he wants to do is what should be done.  It's what we should fork over our hard earned cash for.  A sophisticated experience. 

    Not this gear grinding repetative garbage.  Made for complete fucking morons.

     

    I find it sad that when I sit down for video game time, and I maybe have an hour to play, that I end up playing a game that was released in 1994 over the plethora of modern games I have at my disposal.

    The fact that an "old school" game can be more mentally stimulating than a new game is sad.

     

    While your moron comment is over the top and uneeded you hit on a good point regarding what kinds of people play which games.  In the EQ / UO / AO era it was the "fantasy nerds" that played them because they were already actively looking for worlds like that and it was failry unknown to the general populace.  IMO the more prevalent MMO player today is less concerned about the fantasy portion and more about the mechanics, mainly to get better stuff by fighting bigger bad guys.  It's what I call the multiplayer console effect.  There is nothing wrong with people liking this type of game but it has certainly worn a lot of people thin, mainly those still interested more in fantasy settings.

     

    Don't lose heart though.  I think those that have played nothing but streamlined versions of deep fantasy games are wanting more.  The "been there, done that" attitude is setting the stage for a return to deeper games with more to do.  In order to have that depth you need a deeper world to set it in, hence a richer experience.  Even though fantasy fans and progression fans are coming from opposite ends we may just yet find a home in the same type of game.

  • EkarosEkaros TurkuPosts: 367Member
    Originally posted by ENTR0PY
    Originally posted by roo67
    I think MMOs are going downhill generally speaking . The problem I think is that devlopers think they have to make the games easy to appeal to novice and casual gamers .

    Imagine investing millions into designing/creating a game and only a couple of thousands players subscribe because it's too hardcore. Developers have to eat too.

     

    Making a product for product gamers just doesn't work in long term on MMO market. They are there for experience and after that they are gone...

     

    Other issue with game industry is that everyone is too afraid and the products are made by commitees. Trying to minimise the risks and maximise the audience, it does work with single player games, but it doesn't lead to innovation or long term success...

     

    Maybe days of MMORPGs are over...

  • Tutu2Tutu2 MelbournePosts: 564Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by roo67
    I think MMOs are going downhill generally speaking . The problem I think is that devlopers think they have to make the games easy to appeal to novice and casual gamers .

    If you recall early Cataclysm, Blizzard envisioned a harder skill level for WoW and healing was especially made much harder. Problem was, many players could not adjust to the jarring level difficulty and quit in droves. So yes, I'd say you don't want to make the content too hard for casual gamers or at least don't go rollercoaster on the difficulty level.

  • AvsRock21AvsRock21 Denver, COPosts: 256Member
    Originally posted by trash656

    My Picks

    -- Baldur's Gate 1&2, Diablo 1&2, Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim (<-- Playing Right Now) - Best Single Player Rpg's

    -- Delta Force, Operation Flashpoint. - Best FPS Games Ever

    -- Everquest 1, Eve Online, SWG PRE NGE, Original WoW & Burning Crusade - Best MMO's Ever

     

    PS: Check out Archeage if you havin't already if you are into Sandbox Games I highly reccomend checking that game out. It looks Promising.

     

    Cheers,

    -Trash

     

     

    ^ ^ I agree with the above almost fully. Except add 'Zelda: Ocarina of Time' to the single player rpg list.

  • VardahothVardahoth Temecula, CAPosts: 375Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Eazydzzz

    Give up.  Seriously.  Playing Anarchy Online, Asheron's Call, hell even PSO.  That's all done.

    Remember when PC games made you think.  Like really think?

    PC games were for the smart people, sans diablo and warcraft of course.

    Deep, mentally engaging games that only a few understood.

    Remember being a nerd was actually an insult?  It didn't just mean you were some tight pants, hard rimed glasses wearing poser?

    Being a "nerd" was not a trendy term, it was what you got called by the jocks as a serious insult.  YOu could be a pussy and take it for what it was, or wear it as a badge of honor and find ingenious ways to  have sex with their sisters/mothers/girlfriends.

    Remember when you played an mmo in 1999 and thought "man I wonder what these games will be like in 10 years"?

    Did you picture pandas?  Did you picture a mindless pvp zerg gw2 grind?  Did you picture psuedo pedophlia mixed with wanna-be action combat a la tera?

    The Secret World is the only game that comes even remotely close to dreams.  But it sells nothing.  It's not even worth.

    When you watched star trek and imagined it as a virtual world, did you you picture STO??

    The first time you saw an original star wars movie, could you picture SWTOR?

    SWTOR is a destruction of dreams.

     

    But then I saw the video of the dude who made wing commander games wanting to make a new game.  His vision is the vision.  His vision of pc gaming in 2012 is accurate.  What he wants to do is what should be done.  It's what we should fork over our hard earned cash for.  A sophisticated experience. 

    Not this gear grinding repetative garbage.  Made for complete fucking morons.

     

    I find it sad that when I sit down for video game time, and I maybe have an hour to play, that I end up playing a game that was released in 1994 over the plethora of modern games I have at my disposal.

    The fact that an "old school" game can be more mentally stimulating than a new game is sad.

     

     

    You are not alone in this my friend. My first was ragnarok online. I was an unspoiled kid who didn't have a cc to play everquest with. RO was free for the 1st 6 months I played. By the time it became pay to play, I started a job and was able to afford it (realizing the game was amazing enough to put $15 a month into).

     

    As of now, I really can't find a game I enjoy. I never enjoyed WoW due to it's "everybody wins a trophy" gameplay. I can honestly say the last good mmorpg I have played was Lineage 2 (2003 - 2006). It slowly started to follow the WoW model and I got turned off (including all the people I played with).

     

    If you liked rpg games back in the day before mmo's existed like I did, I just found out they remade ffiv and ffx for the nintendo ds. So I'm playing those atm. I'm almost done with ffiv and I gotta say they did a good job. Even the voice acting is good. It also seems like they made the monsters a little harder to beat in the game. It's not like the later ff series after 7 where the stories and game mechanics are $@!% (old joke for them bleeping curse words out of snes games).

    I Quit.

    http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/436845/page/1

    http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2316034
    .............
    Retired Gamer: all MMORPG's have been destroyed by big business, marketing of false promises, unprofessional game makers, and a generation of "I WIN and GIVE ME NOW".

  • StanlyStankoStanlyStanko Stanksville, OHPosts: 269Member Common
    Originally posted by Kyleran

    They just don't build MMORPG's like they used to.....  and they probably never will again.

     

  • OgreRaperOgreRaper Detroit, MIPosts: 376Member
    I'm kinda in the same boat. Can't stand the direction MMO's have taken lately. I don't even play them anymore. Hoping one of the upcoming games (WildStar, EQ:N, TESO) can renew my interest in the genre of games I once loved.
  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    You get my vote for post of the year.
  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    Originally posted by ENTR0PY
    Originally posted by XAPGames
    Originally posted by Eazydzzz
    Remember when you played an mmo in 1999 and thought "man I wonder what these games will be like in 10 years"?
     

     

    Was playing Half-Life and Vanilla Unreal in 1999.

    Wondered what games will be like in 10 years?  Yep.  Can't say I'm impressed.

     

    Graphics have jumped.  Gameplay... not so much.

    People like you who live in the past please have no idea. The games today are improved if not better than the old games. Nostalgia makes everything you used to play seem better, but it's the opposite.

    They actually have a better perspectve then someone I assume like you that has only experienced newer games.  You cant start playing games today then try to go back and play older games and expect to understand what the OP is talking about.  Let me see if I can explain.  Playing a game 13 years ago the graphics then would appear just as spectacular as say GW2 looks to you now.  The feeling of graphical immersion is IDENTICAL because nothing else better graphically existed at that point in time.  But on top of that you have depth of play that simply does not exist in todays game.  I hope that makes sense to you.

    So what you call living in the past is what more perceptive people call knowledge and experience.

  • OgreRaperOgreRaper Detroit, MIPosts: 376Member
    Originally posted by snapfusion
    Originally posted by ENTR0PY
    Originally posted by XAPGames
    Originally posted by Eazydzzz
    Remember when you played an mmo in 1999 and thought "man I wonder what these games will be like in 10 years"?
     

     

    Was playing Half-Life and Vanilla Unreal in 1999.

    Wondered what games will be like in 10 years?  Yep.  Can't say I'm impressed.

     

    Graphics have jumped.  Gameplay... not so much.

    People like you who live in the past please have no idea. The games today are improved if not better than the old games. Nostalgia makes everything you used to play seem better, but it's the opposite.

    They actually have a better perspectve then someone I assume like you that has only experienced newer games.  You cant start playing games today then try to go back and play older games and expect to understand what the OP is talking about.  Let me see if I can explain.  Playing a game 13 years ago the graphics then would appear just as spectacular as say GW2 looks to you now.  The feeling of graphical immersion is IDENTICAL because nothing else better graphically existed at that point in time.  But on top of that you have depth of play that simply does not exist in todays game.  I hope that makes sense to you.

    So what you call living in the past is what more perseptive people call knowledge and experience.

     

    ^

    Very good post.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    You might want to check out Project Gorgon. It's an indie MMO being developed by Asheron's Call veteran developers. There's a few puzzles in the tutorial and it doesn't even help you with them. It was so refreshing.
  • TealaTeala SomewherePosts: 7,430Member Uncommon
    Still playing just two games.  Mount and Blade:Warband(have a campaign I have been running for a year now ^_^  ), and Skyrim.   Just got the Hearthfire DLC so I am happy with that.    Don't care for the MMO's that have came out since WoW.  I tried Vanguard when it first came out and played it for a year hoping SOE wouldn't neglect it after they bought it...but they did.   So I gave up on it.   Played EVE on an off - and am still pissed about no real WiS - CCP constantly plays their stupid "dangle the carrot" BS with WiS and I refuse to play any longer.   I stopped playing WoW because Blizzard insist on dumbing it down with each X-pac.  So that leaves me with games that I consider two of the best I have ever played.   M&B and Skyrim.   Can't complain.    These two games alone have given me hundreds of hours of awesome gaming.  

    image
  • tank017tank017 Glendale, CAPosts: 2,192Member
    Originally posted by Teala
    Still playing just two games.  Mount and Blade:Warband(have a campaign I have been running for a year now ^_^  ), and Skyrim.   Just got the Hearthfire DLC so I am happy with that.    Don't care for the MMO's that have came out since WoW.  I tried Vanguard when it first came out and played it for a year hoping SOE wouldn't neglect it after they bought it...but they did.   So I gave up on it.   Played EVE on an off - and am still pissed about no real WiS - CCP constantly plays their stupid "dangle the carrot" BS with WiS and I refuse to play any longer.   I stopped playing WoW because Blizzard insist on dumbing it down with each X-pac.  So that leaves me with games that I consider two of the best I have ever played.   M&B and Skyrim.   Can't complain.    These two games alone have given me hundreds of hours of awesome gaming.  

    I read ya..

    I will probably be picking Fallout 3 up again in place of GW2,as I can feel it running out of gas.To think,I havent even touched Skyrim yet, and Fallout 3 seems like its lasting forever...and im enjoying every minute of it.

     

    Though I will say Im still playing VG and enjoying that as well.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Teala
     I tried Vanguard when it first came out and played it for a year hoping SOE wouldn't neglect it after they bought it...but they did.   

    The players neglected Vanguard long before SoE did.  SoE ran the game at a loss for over a year after acquiring VG and made strides to fix the game up, but people didnt come back like they said they would.  Its not that they didnt try.  You could say they werent fast enough with the updates, but you can't say they didnt try.  But there comes a time where you have to cut your losses.  Vanguard was a lost cause, and Im curious why they even bothered with the f2p.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Teala
     I tried Vanguard when it first came out and played it for a year hoping SOE wouldn't neglect it after they bought it...but they did.   

    The players neglected Vanguard long before SoE did.  SoE ran the game at a loss for over a year after acquiring VG and made strides to fix the game up, but people didnt come back like they said they would.  Its not that they didnt try.  You could say they werent fast enough with the updates, but you can't say they didnt try.  But there comes a time where you have to cut your losses.  Vanguard was a lost cause, and Im curious why they even bothered with the f2p.

    Because its still one of the best MMOs on the market? 

    And they ran the game at a loss and did a piss poor job with fixes. People left because of performance, not gameplay. Yet SoE spent that year cutting features and WoWifying everything as best they could, and putting their resources into a trial island. 

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