Howdy, Stranger!

It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!

Fuzzy Avatars Solved! Please re-upload your avatar if it was fuzzy!

The worst arguments against FFA PVP

1678911

Comments

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member
    Originally posted by stayontarget

    This is the argument I hate the most.

    "They are forcing me to pvp"

    (no one is forcing you to buy the game silly)

    Well that's the argument I hate the most.

    There are no sandbox games (not really) where forced PvP isn't an option.

    Some of us love sandbox, don't love forced PvP, and so are left with... memories of SWG and UO post-Trammel.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member

    i don't mind pvp restricted to certain areas, providing they are areas of the open world.

    I love daoc, I like perpetuum & gw2, I had some fun with warhammer and aion.

    I also love eve, but that is pvp anywhere.

    What i hate is where PVP gets ghettoed off in to little tupperware boxes, and then they maybe make flip a switch pvp servers without making any actual pvp content.  Then the rules of the game making plainly clear that raiding and having to join a raid guild is the pinacle of the game.

    But guess what, I just don't buy games that have instanced raiding anymore, problem solved.  Some people look at a game for what features it has, I look at a game specifically for not having that 1 feature.

    I'm not against daoc / coh / gw2 style raiding though where its more of a community building / community effort thing rather than a closed club for elitist jerks.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by stayontarget

    This is the argument I hate the most.

    "They are forcing me to pvp"

    (no one is forcing you to buy the game silly)

    Well that's the argument I hate the most.

    There are no sandbox games (not really) where forced PvP isn't an option.

    Some of us love sandbox, don't love forced PvP, and so are left with... memories of SWG and UO post-Trammel.

    you can play perpetuum without ever pvping

    to elaborate, if your on the alpha isles they work like SWG, you can only pvp by flagging yourself on

    the beta isles work like lowsec in eve.

    now if your an industrialist you will need some materials from beta isles, but thats where been in a mixed guild comes in great, pveers need materials from pvpers, pvpers need materials from pveers from running missions.

  • dave6660dave6660 New York, NYPosts: 2,543Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
    Originally posted by dave6660
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Killing them and taking all their gear does

    For some it might, assuming you actualy have the capability of doing so which most of thier victems don't, but for the real griefers it doesn't. They aren't even playing the same game as you. They are playing the "Let me find a way to ruin someone elses day" game. They don't care about thier characters or thier stuff. Everything is simply a tool to allow them to make someone else miserable. For those guys, the only thing that works is the ban-hammer. They exist in PvE games too...but under those rulesets it's very difficult for them to hide thier true intentions of griefing. In FFA PvP, the ruleset lets them easly hide griefing as a legitimate form of play.

    How do you know what other players are thinking and what their motivation is for playing?

     

    You don't need insight into anyones thoughts.. that's irrelevant to the discussion.... you simply judge them by thier BEHAVIOR. In PvE (and even in Faction based PvP) most of the BEHAVIOR involved in griefing falls outside the legitimate ruleset of play. In FFA PvP alot of the behavior in griefing falls within or is very close to the legitimate ruleset of play...thus not really something that is actionable.

    Think about organized sports. Putting a hard hit on somebody is fully legitimate as long as they have the ball and the play is still active. The person could secretly be a sadist who secretly enjoys inflicting pain but hides it well or they could be a completely decent guy who is just trying to help his team win. As long as the guy is BEHAVING like a decent player...making fair hits, shaking hands at the end of the game, etc... it doesn't really matter what's going on in the guys head because no one is negatively effected by that. One the other hand a guy that is consistantly making cheap, late hits after the whistle has blown and then dancing around taunting the guy he just clocked...well he's probably a complete Punk but it's remotely possible that inside his head he's really a decent guy who's just being thoughtless and idiotic. Doesn't matter because he's BEHAVING like a Punk and that's wrecking the game for the other players...the Ref is going to EJECT him for his BEHAVIOR. Now if there are no rules against late hits and taunting, then you can't eject the Punks and the Idiots...the game suffers and ALOT fewer people are going to be interested in playing.

    Now you're talking about cheating.  Killing other players in a PvP game is not cheating.

    Your previous post stated, "Let me find a way to ruin someone elses day" and "They don't care about thier characters or thier stuff".  I've played most of the FFA PvP games and I've never heard anyone say that.  Where are you getting this insight from?

    “There are certain queer times and occasions in this strange mixed affair we call life when a man takes this whole universe for a vast practical joke, though the wit thereof he but dimly discerns, and more than suspects that the joke is at nobody's expense but his own.”
    -- Herman Melville

  • RaysheRayshe London, ONPosts: 1,284Member

    As a Face of Mankind Vet, i can say that FFA PVP does work. but you need a deterent. The game needs to be about more than just MURDER MURDER KILL DESTROY MURDER.  If thats all you want in a game i suggest Call of Duty or Battlefield, They are games where you are MENT to just do that.

     

    By deterent i mean something like what Face of Mankind had. Unless you are actually at war with another faction if you kill somone you gain penalty points. The higher PP you get the more the player cops get when they arrest you. When you Hit a certian Level of PP you get Most Wanted, suddenly EVERYONE in the game get payed for killing you. To get rid of your PP you need to get yourself arrested and work it off inside the prison. Depending on what Milestone Patch the game was apart of it could be everything from Mining Rocks with a mining gun, Doing Prison only missions, or just standing around until the timer ran out.

     

    There was also the ability to escape prison or break somone out. This deterent kept the game from becoming a "gankfest" it still isnt really, However the factions no longer think about diplomacy they just think about who they are gonna go to war with next. Which is why i dont play it anymore.

    Because i can.
    I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
    Logic every gamers worst enemy.

  • IfrianMMOIfrianMMO BarcelonaPosts: 212Member
    Originally posted by Rayshe

    As a Face of Mankind Vet, i can say that FFA PVP does work. but you need a deterent. The game needs to be about more than just MURDER MURDER KILL DESTROY MURDER.  If thats all you want in a game i suggest Call of Duty or Battlefield, They are games where you are MENT to just do that.

     

    By deterent i mean something like what Face of Mankind had. Unless you are actually at war with another faction if you kill somone you gain penalty points. The higher PP you get the more the player cops get when they arrest you. When you Hit a certian Level of PP you get Most Wanted, suddenly EVERYONE in the game get payed for killing you. To get rid of your PP you need to get yourself arrested and work it off inside the prison. Depending on what Milestone Patch the game was apart of it could be everything from Mining Rocks with a mining gun, Doing Prison only missions, or just standing around until the timer ran out.

     

    There was also the ability to escape prison or break somone out. This deterent kept the game from becoming a "gankfest" it still isnt really, However the factions no longer think about diplomacy they just think about who they are gonna go to war with next. Which is why i dont play it anymore.

     

    This sounds interesting, actually.

    image
  • ThupliThupli Spokane, WAPosts: 583Member Uncommon

    I think people use the word sociopath not because they think that someone really is IRL.  I think it is simply because you have a person that is simply enjoying "griefing"... which really just amounts to bullying.

     

    I love opern world PVP, and pvp that matters.  I think if you could get a game that really dealt with getting rid of gear differences and level differences that usually just make the bullying/griefing into a real issue, I bet you wouldn't see NEARLY as many complaints about FFA.  It's the stuff that is just pointless that people wont put up with: getting camped by a high level that you can do nothing about, getting camped by a guy that is in gear that took years of gameplay to get that makes it impossible to even compete with them. 

     

    Anyhow, that being said, I really liked Shadowbane's set up.  Could you be ganked?  Yeah.  Was it still one of the most enjoyable pvp set ups that I have played?  Yeah.  I just wish it was re-made as a level-less game that had gear differences, but only like a +5-10% better advantage for higher end gear.  No FFA loot, but damage taken on death leading to replacement when broken, in order to have a cash sink, but not stopping your pvp time like when people loot gear off of you.  Player driven cities and strategies and forum social pvp to keep ther reason to pvp there. 

    And lastly, a way to even kill a guildie/ally if they are being a douche.  Some sort of flagging over-ride pop up.

     

    That's my ideal FFA pvp.

  • GrumpyMel2GrumpyMel2 Catskills, NYPosts: 1,832Member

    Let me give you guys some insight into my UO experience. Bought it wat back in the day. Was pretty new to MMO's (had briefly tried Meridian 59).  Installed, connected, rolled up a character. Was trying to figure out some of the basics of play...move, talk, check inventory, equip a weapon, etc. I believe I had just figured out how to move a bit. I was killed within 2 minutes of getting out of the character manager. Didn't even know how to talk yet or draw a weapon, let alone fight. No big deal, I figured I would just respawn....killed again within a few seconds....respawn, killed again. I think I was killed about a dozen times within the first 5 minutes of player....never learned how to talk or equip an item let alone fight..I wasn't given any opportunity to do so.

    So I figured, "This isn't working...let me log out for a few hours."  Logged in 3 hours later...killed again within the first minute.

    Logged out and waited 2 days this time.....killed again within a couple minutes of logging in.

    Is that what you guys define as "Quality PvP" or "Entertainment"?

    Any guess what I did next?  What any sane person would do...I concluded that UO was pretty much a waste of my time where it was impossible to get started,  and certainly not any fun to be had. I uninstalled it from my hard drive and threw away the box.

    Now my experience may have been the exception....I may have just had horrible luck..... there may have been great aspects to the game....however the only thing the experience I had of it was that it just wasn't worth trying to play.

    Every player that has that sort of experience in a FFA PvP game is a player the game COULD have had but never will.

    Now I don't care that a bunch of digital pixels I had was slaughtered repeatedly...I do care that I was being prevented from even TRYING to learn or play the game. YMMV.

  • rungardrungard st. john''s, NFPosts: 1,035Member
    Originally posted by Rayshe

    As a Face of Mankind Vet, i can say that FFA PVP does work. but you need a deterent. The game needs to be about more than just MURDER MURDER KILL DESTROY MURDER.  If thats all you want in a game i suggest Call of Duty or Battlefield, They are games where you are MENT to just do that.

     

    By deterent i mean something like what Face of Mankind had. Unless you are actually at war with another faction if you kill somone you gain penalty points. The higher PP you get the more the player cops get when they arrest you. When you Hit a certian Level of PP you get Most Wanted, suddenly EVERYONE in the game get payed for killing you. To get rid of your PP you need to get yourself arrested and work it off inside the prison. Depending on what Milestone Patch the game was apart of it could be everything from Mining Rocks with a mining gun, Doing Prison only missions, or just standing around until the timer ran out.

     

    There was also the ability to escape prison or break somone out. This deterent kept the game from becoming a "gankfest" it still isnt really, However the factions no longer think about diplomacy they just think about who they are gonna go to war with next. Which is why i dont play it anymore.

     i think thata is the core problem. the examples used for why world pvp is so bad are from games that have failed to generate a good set of rules for pvp. You cant go by the games that are devoid of any rules at all.

    this is why i think there is massive potential for open world pvp with a strong set of rules.

  • ValerosusValerosus Montreal, QCPosts: 9Member

    The way I see it is like this.

    I don't care that games like that exist. I just don't favor them

    I'm a PvE player through and through but I'm not going to bash people who play said games or get mad about it.

    For instance. I play Aion and it often happens that while questing or grinding, whatever, I'll get jumped by an Asmo here or there. But whatever. If i know i can't take em on.I'll go to another map or do something else till they get bored and go back.

    The problem is people these days just can't accept "dying" in any form. Hell i knew people who'd rage at the game itself after being killed by mobs or a world boss, etc.

    But. Like I said. I don't mind they're existance and if the game looks like I'd enjoy it, I'll jump into it repeat my Aion process.(If possible)

    The only games i tend to actually pvp in are games where gear has very little to do with the pvp. Like Elsword, Vindictus, etc. The action oriented games.

    image

  • KyleranKyleran Tampa, FLPosts: 19,989Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

    Let me give you guys some insight into my UO experience. Bought it wat back in the day. Was pretty new to MMO's (had briefly tried Meridian 59).  Installed, connected, rolled up a character. Was trying to figure out some of the basics of play...move, talk, check inventory, equip a weapon, etc. I believe I had just figured out how to move a bit. I was killed within 2 minutes of getting out of the character manager. Didn't even know how to talk yet or draw a weapon, let alone fight. No big deal, I figured I would just respawn....killed again within a few seconds....respawn, killed again. I think I was killed about a dozen times within the first 5 minutes of player....never learned how to talk or equip an item let alone fight..I wasn't given any opportunity to do so.

    So I figured, "This isn't working...let me log out for a few hours."  Logged in 3 hours later...killed again within the first minute.

    Logged out and waited 2 days this time.....killed again within a couple minutes of logging in.

    Is that what you guys define as "Quality PvP" or "Entertainment"?

    Any guess what I did next?  What any sane person would do...I concluded that UO was pretty much a waste of my time where it was impossible to get started,  and certainly not any fun to be had. I uninstalled it from my hard drive and threw away the box.

    Now my experience may have been the exception....I may have just had horrible luck..... there may have been great aspects to the game....however the only thing the experience I had of it was that it just wasn't worth trying to play.

    Every player that has that sort of experience in a FFA PvP game is a player the game COULD have had but never will.

    Now I don't care that a bunch of digital pixels I had was slaughtered repeatedly...I do care that I was being prevented from even TRYING to learn or play the game. YMMV.

    Always some arses spoiling if for everyone else.

    I recall back when Xyson was first getting going someone figured out you could use the terrain editor to create holes beneath the player spawn/respawn points so that the basically dropped into them and were trapped and fodder for whomever was waiting there to kill them.

    Creative, yes. Good for the game overall, no, and of course they fixed that rather quickly.

    But its the mentality  that thinks this is a good idea in the first place that gets frustrating and why FFA PVPers get a bad name sometimes.

     

    In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
    "I don't have one life, I have many lives" - Grunty
    Still currently "subscribed" to EVE, and only EVE!!!
    "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon

  • ThupliThupli Spokane, WAPosts: 583Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GrumpyMel2

    Let me give you guys some insight into my UO experience. Bought it wat back in the day. Was pretty new to MMO's (had briefly tried Meridian 59).  Installed, connected, rolled up a character. Was trying to figure out some of the basics of play...move, talk, check inventory, equip a weapon, etc. I believe I had just figured out how to move a bit. I was killed within 2 minutes of getting out of the character manager. Didn't even know how to talk yet or draw a weapon, let alone fight. No big deal, I figured I would just respawn....killed again within a few seconds....respawn, killed again. I think I was killed about a dozen times within the first 5 minutes of player....never learned how to talk or equip an item let alone fight..I wasn't given any opportunity to do so.

    So I figured, "This isn't working...let me log out for a few hours."  Logged in 3 hours later...killed again within the first minute.

    Logged out and waited 2 days this time.....killed again within a couple minutes of logging in.

    Is that what you guys define as "Quality PvP" or "Entertainment"?

    Any guess what I did next?  What any sane person would do...I concluded that UO was pretty much a waste of my time where it was impossible to get started,  and certainly not any fun to be had. I uninstalled it from my hard drive and threw away the box.

    Now my experience may have been the exception....I may have just had horrible luck..... there may have been great aspects to the game....however the only thing the experience I had of it was that it just wasn't worth trying to play.

    Every player that has that sort of experience in a FFA PvP game is a player the game COULD have had but never will.

    Now I don't care that a bunch of digital pixels I had was slaughtered repeatedly...I do care that I was being prevented from even TRYING to learn or play the game. YMMV.

    And those are the types of players that people label "sociopaths".  They are just bullying for the sake of bullying.  How can you even find that fun?  It's fun because you are dominating and demoralizing someone.  That is the type of crap that FFA pvp needs to deal with to make a come-back in this genre, and it does need a come-back.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon

    I personally love FFA full-loot PvP. 

    I am terrible at it, a bad pvper, but that isn't why I play them.  I get "ganked" all the time.  Even when my stats are maxxed, I'm just not that good at combat. 

    I play them because there's nothing more exciting than living with that constant fear of death/robbery looming over everything you do.  It completely changes my mentality towards the game and immerses me wholesale in the world.

    That said, I would love to see a game have an actually robust crime and punishment system in place, instead of just what Darkfall and Mortal have, which is basically a flagging system.  The towers in DF and the guard in Mortal are inadequate in the pursuit of negative reinforcement.

    Murderers, thieves and criminals should have a hard life in those worlds, having to lay low, etc.  I think DF:UW will have this a bit more handled due to everyone starting as blue, and reds only really being murderers/criminals.  Anti-PKers will have a much easier time IDing PKers.

    Very much looking forward to it!

  • AntharaAnthara CascaisPosts: 75Member
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Grumpy:

    So say on a pve wow server

    How do you deal with that bot that's mining all your nodes?

    That's BS... if you're getting ninjaed by a bot in mining nodes you are probably afk in the same place for hours.
    How do you get back that guy that kicked you right at the end of the boss fight so he could ninja the loot?
    That's not possible anymore and when it did... same as other games. You grow a mature brain and enjoy life.
    How do you stop the guy that trained a bunch of mobs onto you?
    BS
    How do you stop the guy that watches you clear a path to the named quest mob then rushes in and grabs it at the last minute for the lolz? Again, you grow a brain and stop clearing the path and play mind tricks with that guy.
    How do you do the raid progression without encountering gear score nazis? You join a guild.

     

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Anthara
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Grumpy:

    So say on a pve wow server

    How do you deal with that bot that's mining all your nodes?

    That's BS... if you're getting ninjaed by a bot in mining nodes you are probably afk in the same place for hours.
    How do you get back that guy that kicked you right at the end of the boss fight so he could ninja the loot?
    That's not possible anymore and when it did... same as other games. You grow a mature brain and enjoy life.
    How do you stop the guy that trained a bunch of mobs onto you?
    BS
    How do you stop the guy that watches you clear a path to the named quest mob then rushes in and grabs it at the last minute for the lolz? Again, you grow a brain and stop clearing the path and play mind tricks with that guy.
    How do you do the raid progression without encountering gear score nazis? You join a guild.

     

    So pretty much "grow a brain."  Same thing the other side might say to the carebears.  Nice way of illustrating the OPs point.

  • ElsaboltsElsabolts Greencastle, INPosts: 2,594Member Uncommon

    Why in the World would you want to pay a montly sub to get ganked !

    image

    " Grad Student Living with Mon and Dad "

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by stayontarget

    This is the argument I hate the most.

    "They are forcing me to pvp"

    (no one is forcing you to buy the game silly)

    Well that's the argument I hate the most.

    There are no sandbox games (not really) where forced PvP isn't an option.

    Some of us love sandbox, don't love forced PvP, and so are left with... memories of SWG and UO post-Trammel.

    There is no such thing as forced pvp.

     

    Btw SWG died on it's arse and UO after Tram dwindled away to where it is now. Not sure they are the greatest adverts for pve sandboxes.

     

     

     

     

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • TorgrimTorgrim GothenburgPosts: 2,088Member

    FFA PVP MMORPG with little PVE content wil only attract the PVPer and face it in a FFA PVP game those PVP are in a small majority.

    Look at Darkfall, what do most players do in that game?, yes you are correct they PVP.

    If a game is made like UO pree Tramel you have a healthy population of PVPer and PVEr.

    Sadly todays so called UO vets who are making games are focusing way to much on PVP.

    If it's not broken, you are not innovating.

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Most of the gear score Nazi are in raid guilds
  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Fresno, CAPosts: 615Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by stayontarget

    This is the argument I hate the most.

    "They are forcing me to pvp"

    (no one is forcing you to buy the game silly)

    Well that's the argument I hate the most.

    There are no sandbox games (not really) where forced PvP isn't an option.

    Some of us love sandbox, don't love forced PvP, and so are left with... memories of SWG and UO post-Trammel.

    There is no such thing as forced pvp.

     

    Btw SWG died on it's arse and UO after Tram dwindled away to where it is now. Not sure they are the greatest adverts for pve sandboxes.

     

     

     

     

    Even at their worst numbers, those "pve sandboxes" still managed to obliterate the numbers of the "pvp sandboxes"  Shadowbane, Darkfall, and Mortal Online combined.

    EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  • JonokuJonoku Cool, PAPosts: 645Member
    What about the excuse of saying that Faction/Server PvP is more social then free for all? I mean part of MMOs is the social aspect.

    Looking at: The Repopulation
    Preordering: None
    Playing: Random Games

  • AntharaAnthara CascaisPosts: 75Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by Anthara
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Grumpy:

    So say on a pve wow server

    How do you deal with that bot that's mining all your nodes?

    That's BS... if you're getting ninjaed by a bot in mining nodes you are probably afk in the same place for hours.
    How do you get back that guy that kicked you right at the end of the boss fight so he could ninja the loot?
    That's not possible anymore and when it did... same as other games. You grow a mature brain and enjoy life.
    How do you stop the guy that trained a bunch of mobs onto you?
    BS
    How do you stop the guy that watches you clear a path to the named quest mob then rushes in and grabs it at the last minute for the lolz? Again, you grow a brain and stop clearing the path and play mind tricks with that guy.
    How do you do the raid progression without encountering gear score nazis? You join a guild.

     

    So pretty much "grow a brain."  Same thing the other side might say to the carebears.  Nice way of illustrating the OPs point.

    The OP's is pointing out his criticism to the whole MMO comunity in general. And he and everybody else can't avoid falling in the same boat by cheap spiting the word "WoW" into a thread, because its considered cool this days and a sign of experience and good "taste".

    I would prefer to read genuine stuff instead of the so cool trend of WoW hate this days. A game i don't play but that I know very well. Wich is not your case for sure. If it is, you are beeing biased.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by OG_Zorvan
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by stayontarget
     

    Even at their worst numbers, those "pve sandboxes" still managed to obliterate the numbers of the "pvp sandboxes"  Shadowbane, Darkfall, and Mortal Online combined.

    One had a mega IP and failed, the other had little to no competition in it's pomp. Moreover a sandbox with FFA pvp and looting obliterates both in terms of numbers and longevity (EVE).

     

    The simple fact of the matter is the two principal pve sandbox mmos (taking post Tram UO into account) hardly have a glorious track record.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • Trudge34Trudge34 Stevens Point, WIPosts: 392Member Uncommon

    I'm usually not one for much PvP, limiting myself usually to the random arenas scattered around Norrath, but I think for a FFA PvP game to really make it big and be worth playing there would have to be really harsh penalties for killing another player as well as there being some incentive to do so though. Be it some gear, quest or some coin or even just some faction / random PvP, there needs to be some big time risk vs reward. Maybe killing an elf as an orc player rewards you with higher faction from your own city as they're at war with each other constantly.

    It would probably work best in a sandbox situation where some people could go outlaw and build their own camp away from town, recruit their own merchants and other NPCs that you'd find from a camp which would also be vulnerable to being raided by opposing faciton players. Maybe in each city there's a "Most Wanted" board of people who kill lowbies or just a lot of people. Their "last known location" that can be updated by players and have a gold reward. Maybe someone on the list can sneak in and update that list on his own or take his name off. Should be guarded by a high level guard so again, big risk and reward. Would have to make it tough enough where every person with a sneak skill wouldn't be able to do it though. Lots of checks and balances to go into it IMO.

    Think a well done FFA sandboxy game I could really get into, there just hasn't really been one out there that's got my attention and worth trying for me. Thought about looking into DF:UW but we'll see.

    Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
    Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
    Currently Playing: GW2

    Nytlok Sylas
    80 Sylvari Ranger

  • EhliyaEhliya Washington, DCPosts: 199Member

    I am generally pro-PVP, but even I have to admit that many complaints about FFA PVP are valid.  First off, many games are poorly designed which allows a lot of room for action by exploiters.  Exploits have a lot more impact in competitive situations where something is at risk.  Second, the PVP itself is often tacked on as an afterthought so that you end up with "PVP" that consists of level 80's roaming the level 20 quest areas killing people who have no chance to fight back.  And finally, yes, many who say they like FFA PVP are in fact dirt bags.  Not all and of course there are DBs in all walks of life.  But make an online game with anonymity and add in the ability to run around killing other players and you are going to get a higher concentration of DBs.

    The proof is in the pudding.  Old UO had to create Trammel because the griefers were impacting their business model.  No business can survive if part of its customer base dedicates its playtime to driving the rest out of the game.

    PVPers have only themselves to blame.  Time and again, given freedom, they have abused it.  That's the plain truth.

Sign In or Register to comment.