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Why do they have race limited factions?

sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common

Is it me or isn't that a little archaic?  I can't wrap my brain around it - I don't understand why they wanted to limit players like this.  I know it's too late to change it now but it looks like they would've designed the storyline so we could pick one of the 3 major factions after the inital 'starting' zone.

This unneeded restriction diverts away from one of the iconic freedoms of TES... are you happy with this decision or is it just me?

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Comments

  • kolargolkolargol los angeles, CAPosts: 8Member Common
    Restrictions in general are what make games more complex and deep. It forces you to learn to play around them thus adding more than just linear progression.
  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Simply because thye are going with a DAoC style pvP system called Realm Versus Realm.  Nothing wrong with this, since it takes place 1000 years before the known lore takes place, so in a sense they are creating backstory lore for already established games.

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  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    isn't an issue for me. 

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • Trudge34Trudge34 Stevens Point, WIPosts: 392Member Uncommon
    I don't mind the race limited factions as much as you can't explore 2/3 of the world without creating another character within the other faction. You should be able to explore the whole world, but realize that you're going to be a hostile enemy in the other areas and prone to being killed by guards and towns people. 

    Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
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  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by sapphen

    Is it me or isn't that a little archaic?  I can't wrap my brain around it - I don't understand why they wanted to limit players like this.  I know it's too late to change it now but it looks like they would've designed the storyline so we could pick one of the 3 major factions after the inital 'starting' zone.

    This unneeded restriction diverts away from one of the iconic freedoms of TES... are you happy with this decision or is it just me?

    Next time you pick up a game of Morrowind, Oblivian or Skyrim, go cry to the developers that you cant go to another zone.  Or you can extrapolate that concept out and say I am going to be playing Skyrim like you would be in the normal game, but only be able to play 3 races since during the time of this MMO, the races havent hodge podged themselves together. 

     

    Its called perspective and its high time some on this site start using some of it.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

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  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by kolargol
    Restrictions in general are what make games more complex and deep.

    Not sure I can completely agree with that.  I understand by limiting choices, you can focus your attention but I do not think that applies here.  It is totally possible to have the initial area non-faction based and then give players a choice of one of the 3 factions after a certain level.  Other games have done similar things without sacrificing complexity.

    I understand you want to defend it but logically I see no reason why they have the restrictions.  Most experienced designers can design a game to fit within many parameters and although I don't know the ends and outs of their project it seems like the freedom to pick your own faction should've been on top of their list.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Simply because thye are going with a DAoC style pvP system called Realm Versus Realm.  Nothing wrong with this, since it takes place 1000 years before the known lore takes place, so in a sense they are creating backstory lore for already established games.

     

    Yes but that doesn't mean that they couldn't have given players a choice after a certain level or during their storyline progression.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,282Member Uncommon
    It increases the hate factor.
  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Trudge34
    I don't mind the race limited factions as much as you can't explore 2/3 of the world without creating another character within the other faction. You should be able to explore the whole world, but realize that you're going to be a hostile enemy in the other areas and prone to being killed by guards and towns people. 

    That's another problem I have and I feel it's closely connected to the race/faction limitations.

  • ace80kace80k Lorton, VAPosts: 151Member Uncommon
    Faction restrictions make a game world more realistic and in turn adds to the whole immersion factor imo. Why should a dark elf be able to march into the home city of the dwarfs without issue, doesn't make much sense. I know dwarfs won't be a playable race in TESO, just sayin though.
  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,926Member Uncommon
    It makes little sense to me considering the Elder scrolls world. I get it in terms of 'faction verse faction' making it appear different, but limiting access to races is just a silly concept for just that area, particularly with a game like Elder Scrolls where it sports having choice. Sure, allign races more with one side but give the player the option to join another even if a majority of their race isn't part of that faction.
  • muffins89muffins89 Yakima, WAPosts: 1,306Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Trudge34
    I don't mind the race limited factions as much as you can't explore 2/3 of the world without creating another character within the other faction. You should be able to explore the whole world, but realize that you're going to be a hostile enemy in the other areas and prone to being killed by guards and towns people. 

    That's another problem I have and I feel it's closely connected to the race/faction limitations.

    where have they said you wont be able to explore 2/3 of the game world?  the game is still over a year away dont jump to conclusions so quickly.

    I think the prostitute mod corrupted your game files man. -elhefen

  • dreamscaperdreamscaper Somewhere, NCPosts: 1,582Member Uncommon
    I prefer them, and which they would make more things race/gender/class/etc-specific. It makes a bit more uniqueness in play experience.

    <3

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    Next time you pick up a game of Morrowind, Oblivian or Skyrim, go cry to the developers that you cant go to another zone.  Or you can extrapolate that concept out and say I am going to be playing Skyrim like you would be in the normal game, but only be able to play 3 races since during the time of this MMO, the races havent hodge podged themselves together. 

    Its called perspective and its high time some on this site start using some of it.

    I'm upset that they lost their perspective and adopted an outdated race to faction model.  They had a choice for their backstory and did it in a way so that this restriction was explained.  I do not accept that they designed the game around the backstory.

  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by ace80k
    Faction restrictions make a game world more realistic and in turn adds to the whole immersion factor imo. Why should a dark elf be able to march into the home city of the dwarfs without issue, doesn't make much sense. I know dwarfs won't be a playable race in TESO, just sayin though.

    I agree with you in a way. I wouldn't object if some races was unable to join one of the factions but even still there are spies, servants, slaves and many other ways to give us a choice.  They choose the storyline in order to restrict the races/factions.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Simply because thye are going with a DAoC style pvP system called Realm Versus Realm.  Nothing wrong with this, since it takes place 1000 years before the known lore takes place, so in a sense they are creating backstory lore for already established games.

     

    Yes but that doesn't mean that they couldn't have given players a choice after a certain level or during their storyline progression.

    They could very well open up an Andred/Mordred style server, we just dont know yet.  Normally I would say I hope not but anymore Im hoping they do jsut to shut up the supposedly pvP purists.

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    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

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  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by dreamscaper
    I prefer them, and which they would make more things race/gender/class/etc-specific. It makes a bit more uniqueness in play experience.

    I respect your opinion, it is well stated and I appreciate the response.  I do think some things should be race specific like archtypes, clothing, etc. but I do not agree with limiting the factions.  Although they wrote the story so there is no other choice, I think it takes too much of the uniqueness away from TES franchise.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    Next time you pick up a game of Morrowind, Oblivian or Skyrim, go cry to the developers that you cant go to another zone.  Or you can extrapolate that concept out and say I am going to be playing Skyrim like you would be in the normal game, but only be able to play 3 races since during the time of this MMO, the races havent hodge podged themselves together. 

    Its called perspective and its high time some on this site start using some of it.

    I'm upset that they lost their perspective and adopted an outdated race to faction model.  They had a choice for their backstory and did it in a way so that this restriction was explained.  I do not accept that they designed the game around the backstory.

    How can you say its outdated when its only been done 2 times before?  I know not everyone likes factions, but a free for all is not something that is conducive to good MMO gameplay.  There has to be some sembalnce of structure to promote development principles and what not.  All I can say is thank Effing God we didnt get another 2 faction game.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

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    Waiting on: TESO
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    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

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  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by dreamscaper
    I prefer them, and which they would make more things race/gender/class/etc-specific. It makes a bit more uniqueness in play experience.

    I respect your opinion, it is well stated and I appreciate the response.  I do think some things should be race specific like archtypes, clothing, etc. but I do not agree with limiting the factions.  Although they wrote the story so there is no other choice, I think it takes too much of the uniqueness away from TES franchise.

    I respect your opinion too, although it is wrong and one sided.  image

     

    However you do not know the back story to the world of Tramriel and I seriously doubt Bethesda would give ZOS the freedom to create a backstory without some guidance, I even believe Todd Howard said as much recently. 

     

    You woudl have a point if TESO was set in the modern TES world, but no one, least of some unknown on a non specific gaming forum could possibly know the back story of a franchise.  Grrr it really chaps my arse when people think they know more then the developers and it shows a sense of arrogance that is truely more sickening then any fanboi could display.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

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  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    How can you say its outdated when its only been done 2 times before?  I know not everyone likes factions, but a free for all is not something that is conducive to good MMO gameplay.  There has to be some sembalnce of structure to promote development principles and what not.  All I can say is thank Effing God we didnt get another 2 faction game.

    Well I do have to agree with you about the 2 factions.  I'm also not saying that there shouldn't be a faction choice in the game, FFA isn't that great (although being neutral could work if designed properly).

    I'm talking about race/faction limitations in general (2 and 3 factions), which is something many MMOs do and something Elder Scrolls has never done.

  • snapfusionsnapfusion San, CAPosts: 954Member
    Choices are hard.  But seriously this isnt an issue, it just requires a little foresight is all.
  • Trudge34Trudge34 Stevens Point, WIPosts: 392Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by muffins89
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Trudge34
    I don't mind the race limited factions as much as you can't explore 2/3 of the world without creating another character within the other faction. You should be able to explore the whole world, but realize that you're going to be a hostile enemy in the other areas and prone to being killed by guards and towns people. 

    That's another problem I have and I feel it's closely connected to the race/faction limitations.

    where have they said you wont be able to explore 2/3 of the game world?  the game is still over a year away dont jump to conclusions so quickly.

    I thought it's been common knowledge you can only explore your faction's area (as of now.) Forgive me if I'm wrong. I would hope they change it, but I bet the race factions are set in stone as of now. I'd much prefer you join, at your leisure, one of the factions later in the game. It would make much more sense if it was Companions / Fighters Guild vs. Dark Brotherhood / Thieves Guild vs Oblivion or something along the lines instead of by race. If you didn't want to dive into the faction vs faction PvP you shouldn't have to join any and enjoy the crafting and PvE experiences just the same IMO. Until I hear more, I really think they missed the mark in making an Elder Scrolls MMO here.

    Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
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  • sapphensapphen Madison, NCPosts: 911Member Common
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    I respect your opinion too, although it is wrong and one sided.  image

    However you do not know the back story to the world of Tramriel and I seriously doubt Bethesda would give ZOS the freedom to create a backstory without some guidance, I even believe Todd Howard said as much recently. 

    You woudl have a point if TESO was set in the modern TES world, but no one, least of some unknown on a non specific gaming forum could possibly know the back story of a franchise.  Grrr it really chaps my arse when people think they know more then the developers and it shows a sense of arrogance that is truely more sickening then any fanboi could display.

    Saying one is right or wrong is one sided imo.  I never said you was wrong, only that I did not agree. 

    The developers are not gods with unlimited knowledge, they are people like us and they can make bad decisions.  Look at many of the games that has been released over the past few years.  Developers are given massive amounts of money by non-gamers that would rather play it safe or chase the giant rather than create a good game that represents the franchise.  Do I really need to list examples?

    As a designer I believe there are many ways around problems, that's my job.  I do not accept that this is what they had to do - I felt it was a design decision to make TES more like a generic MMO instead of representing the IP.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by sapphen
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    I respect your opinion too, although it is wrong and one sided.  image

    However you do not know the back story to the world of Tramriel and I seriously doubt Bethesda would give ZOS the freedom to create a backstory without some guidance, I even believe Todd Howard said as much recently. 

    You woudl have a point if TESO was set in the modern TES world, but no one, least of some unknown on a non specific gaming forum could possibly know the back story of a franchise.  Grrr it really chaps my arse when people think they know more then the developers and it shows a sense of arrogance that is truely more sickening then any fanboi could display.

    Saying one is right or wrong is one sided imo.  I never said you was wrong, only that I did not agree. 

    The developers are not gods with unlimited knowledge, they are people like us and they can make bad decisions.  Look at many of the games that has been released over the past few years.  Developers are given massive amounts of money by non-gamers that would rather play it safe or chase the giant rather than create a good game that represents the franchise.  Do I really need to list examples?

    As a designer I believe there are many ways around problems, that's my job.  I do not accept that this is what they had to do - I felt it was a design decision to make TES more like a generic MMO instead of representing the IP.

    Not really, they went with a model they felt comfortable with that could garner a good playerbase based o nthe highly successful and genre defing MMO DAoC especially seeing as there head guy is the guru behind DAoC, it became a non brainer.  Love it or leave it is al lyou can do.  Wil lit piss off TES purists?  Sure but they are willing to bet they can make head wind i nthe MM Omarket so its not up to you.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
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    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

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  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon

    Saw a thread on TES forums about this (I'm banned from there but can still read it - I was naughty and told them I didn't like the direction of the game...whoops).

    I really like the OPs ideas, particularly idea 3, but I think 1 would be good too:

    http://forums.bethsoft.com/topic/1418917-faction-locking-opposes-faction-loyalty-poll-possible-solutions/

    Here's the content so you don't have to click, I feel like this guy took the words outta my mouth.

    SITUATION: Three factions. Three races per faction. Factions are locked into PvE zones, which are approximately 1/3rd of the total landmass of Tamriel, not counting the PvP zone Cyrodiil.

    PROBLEM: A player who wants to explore all of Tamriel MUST roll at least three characters, one in each faction, to do so.

    This we can all agree on. This has now been confirmed by multiple sources.

    This practice will do the exact opposite of its intention. Its intention is to promote faction loyalty, whereas instead, most players will roll one character per faction, and thus dilute the loyalty that we've seen in other 3-way PvP games like Planetside and DAOC*.

    Granted there will be some players who will stick to their own faction, but knowing that most MMORPG players are alt-rollers if not alt-a-holics, this will be the minority.

    Personally, I am not an alt-a-holic. I like to have one character and stick with that character from beginning to end. 

    Certainly many players will have a main, but we cannot discount the psychological implications of having characters in other factions leading to a lack of faction loyalty.

    SOLUTION #1: Simplest solution. Players start as neutral. Players can journey to anywhere in Tamriel and quest, except for Cyrodiil. Each faction is still race-locked. At any time between level 10 and level 50, players have the option to join up with their race's faction and participate in PvP in Cyrodiil. If they do, they are warned that they will no longer be able to visit those other lands. If they sign up, they are now only able to go to their faction lands and Cyrodiil.

    SOLUTION #2: A little more freedom. Same as solution #1, except that factions are not race-locked. However, if you are a race that wishes to join a different faction than the one that owns your race's lands, then you must go through a loyalty quest-line in their lands to earn the right to side with them and get them to trust you.

    SOLUTION #3: The open pvp solution. Same as solution #2, except even after you have chosen a faction, you CAN still enter the other factions lands. You will be kill-on-sight to any faction NPCs or players, however.

    Why do I find this so necessary? I personally believe that not only would any one of these create a more dynamic world, but it would enable players who wanted to experience the whole game on one character to do just that.

    Please fill out the poll, I'll be interested to see how those fall, as they do pertain to the topic.

    Also, if anyone has any other potential solutions to the problems presented above, please have at it! And let's please try to keep the discourse civil. It's fine if you disagree that this is even a problem in the first place, but try not to be too knee-jerk about it.

    *In DAOC I played on an FFA server. I'm not sure if on other servers factions were locked into their zones, but it is irrelevant since DAOC was not based on any IP that its fans wanted to intricately explore.

    I really hope they listen on this issue too, like they are sorta doing with the combat.  Neutrality would be awesome, and I think by and large the current system will be an annoying "worst of both worlds" situation.

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