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Every Mmo since WoW has been a failure.

MercArcherMercArcher fort wayne, INPosts: 57Member

What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

 

(arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

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Comments

  • f0dell54f0dell54 Des Moines, IAPosts: 329Member
    Originally posted by MercArcher

    What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

     

    (arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

     

    Since WoW is the only game to ever maintain that level subs I think that your definition of failure is pretty much a failure.

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon
    Maintain for how long. There have been MMOs holding 1m+ subs for some time

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • MercArcherMercArcher fort wayne, INPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by coretex666
    Maintain for how long. There have been MMOs holding 1m+ subs for some time

    Let's say 6 months or a year. Not sure which would be better for describing this.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    Most of them have been, yes. Mostly the themepark games that try to clone WOW. 

    The indie games tend to grow over time. Eve, though it was made before WoW, is still growing.

    Darkfall and the company behind it are still growing. 

  • kaliniskalinis Dexter, MEPosts: 1,428Member

    Ill start off by saying i play wow have for over 6 yrs. That said please get real. Depends on the definition of failure, For one rift has over a million subs and has for well over a yr. Thats not a failure unless u expect a new game to hit 10 mil in which case all games are failures

    There may never be another wow , blizzard with all its power to sell stuff may never hit on the success wow had. Plus u can't really count free 2 play in this discussion as they have no actual subs usually, 

    There are numerous succesful free 2 play from the start games that have come out since wow so not every mmo since wow is a failure thats just ridiculous.

  • MercArcherMercArcher fort wayne, INPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Most of them have been, yes. Mostly the themepark games that try to clone WOW. 

    The indie games tend to grow over time. Eve, though it was made before WoW, is still growing.

    Darkfall and the company behind it are still growing. 

    Darkfall only has like 10000 subs. That's abysmal. It just does to show that action sandbox mmos aren't a viable model.

  • MercArcherMercArcher fort wayne, INPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by kalinis

    Ill start off by saying i play wow have for over 6 yrs. That said please get real. Depends on the definition of failure, For one rift has over a million subs and has for well over a yr. Thats not a failure unless u expect a new game to hit 10 mil in which case all games are failures

    There may never be another wow , blizzard with all its power to sell stuff may never hit on the success wow had. Plus u can't really count free 2 play in this discussion as they have no actual subs usually, 

    There are numerous succesful free 2 play from the start games that have come out since wow so not every mmo since wow is a failure thats just ridiculous.

    Rift started out with 1m+ but quickly dropped off and held steady at around 300k.

  • wrekognizewrekognize salt lake city, UTPosts: 384Member
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Most of them have been, yes. Mostly the themepark games that try to clone WOW. 

    The indie games tend to grow over time. Eve, though it was made before WoW, is still growing.

    Darkfall and the company behind it are still growing. 

    Darkfall only has like 10000 subs. That's abysmal. It just does to show that action sandbox mmos aren't a viable model.

    Not saying you're wrong. Just curious how you know the #s?

     

     

     

  • MercArcherMercArcher fort wayne, INPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by wrekognize
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Most of them have been, yes. Mostly the themepark games that try to clone WOW. 

    The indie games tend to grow over time. Eve, though it was made before WoW, is still growing.

    Darkfall and the company behind it are still growing. 

    Darkfall only has like 10000 subs. That's abysmal. It just does to show that action sandbox mmos aren't a viable model.

     Not saying you're wrong. Just curious how you know the #s?

     

     

    Here's a thread estimating subs. http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=317959&page=3 and it looks like I was wrong. Ty only have about 2.5 to 3k subs. Even worse than 10000.

  • NevulusNevulus Miami Beach, FLPosts: 1,288Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Most of them have been, yes. Mostly the themepark games that try to clone WOW. 

    The indie games tend to grow over time. Eve, though it was made before WoW, is still growing.

    Darkfall and the company behind it are still growing. 

    Darkfall only has like 10000 subs. That's abysmal. It just does to show that action sandbox mmos aren't a viable model.

    Their flawed model, with a game that took well over 8+ years to actually release, is NOT representative of the "action sandbox mmo" business model.

    You're wrong. 

    That's like saying "Waterworld" is the model for all big budget movies filmed mostly on water.

  • RefMinorRefMinor MyTownPosts: 3,452Member
    Originally posted by MercArcher

    What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

     

    (arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

    No MMO has been a success.

    (arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 15m+ subs)

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Most of them have been, yes. Mostly the themepark games that try to clone WOW. 

    The indie games tend to grow over time. Eve, though it was made before WoW, is still growing.

    Darkfall and the company behind it are still growing. 

    Darkfall only has like 10000 subs. That's abysmal. It just does to show that action sandbox mmos aren't a viable model.

    The second most successful MMO, Eve, started small and grew to. 

    The difference is Darkfall is a GROWING game, Aventurine are hiring more developers. They've gone from 20 devs at launch of Darkfall to the 60 they have now. They're launching a sequel. 

    Darkfall 1 was made with a 1 million dollar budget and has sold a ton of copies over the 3 years of its release. 

    Compare that to AoC, upon release Funcom closed two of their partner studios and fired half their staff to try to cushion all the money they were losing. 

    Which is the better success do you think?

     

    Edit; I'm getting tired of correcting you people, the game didn't take 8 years to make. 

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member

    OP, you have no concept of what you are talking about.

    There are plenty of good games out there.  So from a gamers point of view, there have been a lot of successes.  Most importantly...options.

    From a investors point of few, there are also a lot of winners.  However, when you compare them to the behemoth of WoW, nobody is a winner.

     

  • klerkenklerken AarhusPosts: 52Member
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Most of them have been, yes. Mostly the themepark games that try to clone WOW. 

    The indie games tend to grow over time. Eve, though it was made before WoW, is still growing.

    Darkfall and the company behind it are still growing. 

    Darkfall only has like 10000 subs. That's abysmal. It just does to show that action sandbox mmos aren't a viable model.

    why is that "abysmal" ? dunno how many servers there is (haven't played since beginning) but if the game is still running with sub fee after 3+ years and the servers seem alive. i would characterise it as a succes, espcially considering how many mmos fail in 3 years

     

     

    disregard this post

    DavisFlight said it better than i could

  • wrekognizewrekognize salt lake city, UTPosts: 384Member
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by wrekognize
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Most of them have been, yes. Mostly the themepark games that try to clone WOW. 

    The indie games tend to grow over time. Eve, though it was made before WoW, is still growing.

    Darkfall and the company behind it are still growing. 

    Darkfall only has like 10000 subs. That's abysmal. It just does to show that action sandbox mmos aren't a viable model.

     Not saying you're wrong. Just curious how you know the #s?

     

     

    Here's a thread estimating subs. http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?t=317959&page=3 and it looks like I was wrong. Ty only have about 2.5 to 3k subs. Even worse than 10000.

    Many players quit because they were tired of waiting for Darkfall 2.0 (Unholy Wars). It will be interesting to see the numbers and how stable they are after UW is released.

     

     

  • KanethKaneth Posts: 1,924Member Uncommon
    I would say many of the themepark options were boring and some games just didn't come with enough content out the box to remain successful. Most of them are still up and running, which tells me there is a level of success.
  • LetsinodLetsinod Ramsey, MNPosts: 334Member Common
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by kalinis

    Ill start off by saying i play wow have for over 6 yrs. That said please get real. Depends on the definition of failure, For one rift has over a million subs and has for well over a yr. Thats not a failure unless u expect a new game to hit 10 mil in which case all games are failures

    There may never be another wow , blizzard with all its power to sell stuff may never hit on the success wow had. Plus u can't really count free 2 play in this discussion as they have no actual subs usually, 

    There are numerous succesful free 2 play from the start games that have come out since wow so not every mmo since wow is a failure thats just ridiculous.

    Rift started out with 1m+ but quickly dropped off and held steady at around 300k.

    There is no way in hell Rift has 300k subs right now.  The server status page for months is mostly low and some medium.  On only 8 servers.

  • mikecacklemikecackle City, ILPosts: 151Member
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Most of them have been, yes. Mostly the themepark games that try to clone WOW. 

    The indie games tend to grow over time. Eve, though it was made before WoW, is still growing.

    Darkfall and the company behind it are still growing. 

    Darkfall only has like 10000 subs. That's abysmal. It just does to show that action sandbox mmos aren't a viable model.

    Ignorant comment, I would play a game LIKE Darkfall, but never ever give that slimey ass a dime... Sorry, game type is not everything... That company has a lot of angry people, off the attitude alone of it and it hardly was a functioning idea of anything..

  • mikecacklemikecackle City, ILPosts: 151Member
    Originally posted by Letsinod
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by kalinis

    Ill start off by saying i play wow have for over 6 yrs. That said please get real. Depends on the definition of failure, For one rift has over a million subs and has for well over a yr. Thats not a failure unless u expect a new game to hit 10 mil in which case all games are failures

    There may never be another wow , blizzard with all its power to sell stuff may never hit on the success wow had. Plus u can't really count free 2 play in this discussion as they have no actual subs usually, 

    There are numerous succesful free 2 play from the start games that have come out since wow so not every mmo since wow is a failure thats just ridiculous.

    Rift started out with 1m+ but quickly dropped off and held steady at around 300k.

    There is no way in hell Rift has 300k subs right now.  The server status page for months is mostly low and some medium.  On only 8 servers.

    you underestimate the power of the yearly sub, and the casual gamer... Sadly, I think I am still a SWTOR statistic and i quit that game after week 1 :/

     

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom

    OP, you have no concept of what you are talking about.

    There are plenty of good games out there.  So from a gamers point of view, there have been a lot of successes.  Most importantly...options.

    From a investors point of few, there are also a lot of winners.  However, when you compare them to the behemoth of WoW, nobody is a winner.

     

    Uh, what fictional world are you talking about?

    Choice? The ONLY choice from AAA MMORPGs of the last 7 years has been WoW clone or... nothing. The ONLY non WoW clone AAA MMO of the last 7 years was Vanguard. The ONLY one. GW2 is the first one since then to actually be a bit different. 

    And good investments? Which investment was a good one? The high profile failure of WAR? The failure of AoC? The failure of Rift? The failure of STO? The failure of Vanguard? The failure of SWTOR?

    All these games started shrinking and closing servers almost right away. That is a pretty solid measure of failure. 

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,654Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by MercArcher

    What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

     

    (arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

    No MMO has been a success.

    (arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 15m+ subs)

    I agree with RefMinor. Merc is lowballing the number intentionally just to get WOW in under the cutoff. Nice try, Merc.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Badaboom

    OP, you have no concept of what you are talking about.

    There are plenty of good games out there.  So from a gamers point of view, there have been a lot of successes.  Most importantly...options.

    From a investors point of few, there are also a lot of winners.  However, when you compare them to the behemoth of WoW, nobody is a winner.

     

    Uh, what fictional world are you talking about?

    Choice? The ONLY choice from AAA MMORPGs of the last 7 years has been WoW clone or... nothing. The ONLY non WoW clone AAA MMO of the last 7 years was Vanguard. The ONLY one. GW2 is the first one since then to actually be a bit different. 

    And good investments? Which investment was a good one? The high profile failure of WAR? The failure of AoC? The failure of Rift? The failure of STO? The failure of Vanguard? The failure of SWTOR?

    All these games started shrinking and closing servers almost right away. That is a pretty solid measure of failure. 

    Are you insinuating that every MMO released in the last 7 years has lost money?

  • MercArcherMercArcher fort wayne, INPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by RefMinor
    Originally posted by MercArcher

    What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

     

    (arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

    No MMO has been a success.

    (arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 15m+ subs)

    I agree with RefMinor. Merc is lowballing the number intentionally just to get WOW in under the cutoff. Nice try, Merc.

    Actually I based it off of about 1/10th of wow's sub #s.

  • rodingorodingo Posts: 2,346Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MercArcher

    What does that say about the genre when everything since wow has failed? That's 7 years straight of failures.

     

    (arbitrary condition for success = maintaining 1m+ subs)

    What credentials do you have to make such sweeping statements?  If you say something along the lines of "I have been playing MMOs since Meridian 59" , that doesn't mean anything,...just in case you wanted to use that.

    "If I offended you, you needed it" -Corey Taylor

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Badaboom

    OP, you have no concept of what you are talking about.

    There are plenty of good games out there.  So from a gamers point of view, there have been a lot of successes.  Most importantly...options.

    From a investors point of few, there are also a lot of winners.  However, when you compare them to the behemoth of WoW, nobody is a winner.

     

    Uh, what fictional world are you talking about?

    Choice? The ONLY choice from AAA MMORPGs of the last 7 years has been WoW clone or... nothing. The ONLY non WoW clone AAA MMO of the last 7 years was Vanguard. The ONLY one. GW2 is the first one since then to actually be a bit different. 

    And good investments? Which investment was a good one? The high profile failure of WAR? The failure of AoC? The failure of Rift? The failure of STO? The failure of Vanguard? The failure of SWTOR?

    All these games started shrinking and closing servers almost right away. That is a pretty solid measure of failure. 

    Are you insinuating that every MMO released in the last 7 years has lost money?

    I'm insinuating that every AAA MMO of the last 7 years has shrunken dramatically immediately after launch, and not grown over time like the classic MMOs did. And yes, I will say that most of them barely recouped their development costs. 

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