I would take virtually anything over quest based leveling. Even camping and grinding. At least you're free to grind what you want and do it with friends.
i am really really really hoping for a better system than the previous offerings. I hope that they do not have " levels" or experience in the game.
i would really love a hybrid system like eve online does so you can really pace yourself and not be focused on getting that level. I would also like there to be multiple ways to improve from multiple source. A track for your god, one for your class, one for your race and once for a player chosen organization or three.
like above some skills should be trainable after a certain time ( not time played), others should be findable, some should be required to be crafted and still others you need repeated exposure to the skill to begin learning it.
dont put us on a levelling treadmill. Make the game for a 5 year arc.
/signed
What if the core system was more like EQ's AA system but expanded? Small incremental steps that you care about but aren't obsessed about.
Originally posted by Rimmersman EQNext is not going to be a total sandbox game, it will have a class system and you will gain xp to level up. Smed has already said the classes will be more akin to EQ rather than EQ2. EQNext= Hybrid not a total sandbox game.
Crap really! I'm no purist but playing what someone else's thinks my character should be pretty much scraps EQ Next as a sandbox IMHO. How can there be any sand when you don't not had complete control over your avatar in the game.
Because the elements that interact with the world may have nothing to do with what class you play. Crafting and skills of the like may not be bound to class. Full skill systems are typically a mind trick. You decide you want melee then are forced to pick most of your other skills to support melee (armor, defences, etc) and you are templated into a build often more restrictive than a class. Skill systems often also lack secondary or tertiary skill modification mechanics because of how easy it is to exploit outside of more stringent class systems.
It is all about how the game is set up. Until that time every one is merely throwing about conjecture. I enjoy both systems depending on the game. I have also played many rpg game systems over 30 years to know the draw back and benefits of either approach. There is no requirement what so ever for a sandbox game to be a pure skill system. The sandbox elements are not restricted by how your character fights or groups in the world. All sandbox options can easily reside outside of the character combat theme.
The real question is how much control you have over the class you choose and if it can differ from others of the same when it pertains to combat.
i am really really really hoping for a better system than the previous offerings. I hope that they do not have " levels" or experience in the game.
i would really love a hybrid system like eve online does so you can really pace yourself and not be focused on getting that level. I would also like there to be multiple ways to improve from multiple source. A track for your god, one for your class, one for your race and once for a player chosen organization or three.
like above some skills should be trainable after a certain time ( not time played), others should be findable, some should be required to be crafted and still others you need repeated exposure to the skill to begin learning it.
dont put us on a levelling treadmill. Make the game for a 5 year arc.
/signed
What if the core system was more like EQ's AA system but expanded? Small incremental steps that you care about but aren't obsessed about.
Think that would be kind of cool. Maybe instead of the exp = levels put all your exp into the AA abilities and depending on the class you want to play you can spend those points as needed. Base stats you can put 100 of each into along with all the other abilities that were in the original AA tree + new ones. Eventually you could max everything out, but you'd have to increase the exp needed and points needed for the most powerful abilties and maxing out as you gain more. Would really give a huge sense of customizability and if you look at how many people have actually maxed out the AA tree, at least when I was playing, it was very very few.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others... Currently Playing: GW2
I read often, in forums of various games, that some folks desire a non leveling game, or no exp. I look at this from a different perspective, no matter whether you kill mobs or quest to get exp or empower your character via events, dungeons, or whatever , its still a type of character leveling or empowering. Sometimes change is good, but even if you began at game at end lvl and began dungeons/raids to get geared up, you are still, in essence, leveling your characters power up. Just doing it different ways.
So i just dont get that people say no exp or questing will be the Next Big Thing. Its still going to be some journey you take your characters on to power/level them up. I try to create fun and have a good time when i play. That is my entertainment in gaming!
PS: I usually do have top geared/leveled characters in games i play. But having them isnt the Goal of playing the game. Playing the game to have fun is the goal. Getting LvL'd /Geared is just part of the way i do it. It wouldnt matter to me if i started a game at end lvl with raid gear < i probly wouldnt like that, no sence of accomplishment > as long as i have the opportunity in the game to have fun playing it! Empowering my characters stronger and stronger, no matter how its done!
the key point for me is that there is some lore to the whole process. I didnt just grind the most efficient monster i could find until i maxed out. We all know this happens alot. Players will find the most efficient point and work it as long as possible. Its just nature.
i mean if your a follower of cazic thule, should you not be able to advance and get skills and abilities that are related to cazic thule? That makes sense to me.
If your a troll should you not be able to advance and get skills and abilities related to being a troll?
if you are aligned with "Grobb berserkers" should you not be able to adcance and gain skills and abilities related to the that faction.
lets take it a step further...
you have a player guild and the guild can also do the exact same thing and earn skills and abilities that you can set and everyone in the guild gets the same access to the ability. They dont have to be combat related, they could be useful type skills.
the way i see it, anything that can be done in a gameplay context should be. You might actually enjoy being a troll shadowknight that worships cazic thule is you actually were a part of those things.
I honestly dont know how AA's work because i finished eq before they came out (Luclin i believe). perhaps someone can enlighten me.
the key point for me is that there is some lore to the whole process. I didnt just grind the most efficient monster i could find until i maxed out. We all know this happens alot. Players will find the most efficient point and work it as long as possible. Its just nature.
i mean if your a follower of cazic thule, should you not be able to advance and get skills and abilities that are related to cazic thule? That makes sense to me.
If your a troll should you not be able to advance and get skills and abilities related to being a troll?
if you are aligned with "Grobb berserkers" should you not be able to adcance and gain skills and abilities related to the that faction.
lets take it a step further...
you have a player guild and the guild can also do the exact same thing and earn skills and abilities that you can set and everyone in the guild gets the same access to the ability. They dont have to be combat related, they could be useful type skills.
the way i see it, anything that can be done in a gameplay context should be. You might actually enjoy being a troll shadowknight that worships cazic thule is you actually were a part of those things.
I honestly dont know how AA's work because i finished eq before they came out (Luclin i believe). perhaps someone can enlighten me.
Agree 100% and it would make for better gameplay as long as there wasn't a base level system to "min/max" to. Here is a run down of AAs in EQ and EQ2:
In EQ it was basically a slow way to still progress even after you hit max level. In EQ2 is seemed to be more useful early on and gives you additional abilities you wouldn't have otherwise along with effects. I like the EQ2 version better and it fits more with what you are talking about. If they were to take the EQ2 version of AA and expanded it more I don't see how a level system would be needed in a sandbox type environment. This isn't out of the realm of possibility since a lot of cross over design makes sense. Kill levels, set AA to 100% and break the knob lol.
Originally posted by Rimmersman EQNext is not going to be a total sandbox game, it will have a class system and you will gain xp to level up. Smed has already said the classes will be more akin to EQ rather than EQ2. EQNext= Hybrid not a total sandbox game.
This would be fine with me. Just so long as they make things distinctive and allow for options to gain factions with different groups like EQ1. Let me be from Qeynos but kill my own guards to ruin faction if I want. Just some more freedom and some sandbox stuff thrown in to increase play time past a few months. I can't even imagine playing an MMO for longer than 4 months it's been so long since one was released and meant to be enjoyed for longer than six months.
the key point for me is that there is some lore to the whole process. I didnt just grind the most efficient monster i could find until i maxed out. We all know this happens alot. Players will find the most efficient point and work it as long as possible. Its just nature.
i mean if your a follower of cazic thule, should you not be able to advance and get skills and abilities that are related to cazic thule? That makes sense to me.
If your a troll should you not be able to advance and get skills and abilities related to being a troll?
if you are aligned with "Grobb berserkers" should you not be able to adcance and gain skills and abilities related to the that faction.
lets take it a step further...
you have a player guild and the guild can also do the exact same thing and earn skills and abilities that you can set and everyone in the guild gets the same access to the ability. They dont have to be combat related, they could be useful type skills.
the way i see it, anything that can be done in a gameplay context should be. You might actually enjoy being a troll shadowknight that worships cazic thule is you actually were a part of those things.
I honestly dont know how AA's work because i finished eq before they came out (Luclin i believe). perhaps someone can enlighten me.
Agree 100% and it would make for better gameplay as long as there wasn't a base level system to "min/max" to. Here is a run down of AAs in EQ and EQ2:
In EQ it was basically a slow way to still progress even after you hit max level. In EQ2 is seemed to be more useful early on and gives you additional abilities you wouldn't have otherwise along with effects. I like the EQ2 version better and it fits more with what you are talking about. If they were to take the EQ2 version of AA and expanded it more I don't see how a level system would be needed in a sandbox type environment. This isn't out of the realm of possibility since a lot of cross over design makes sense. Kill levels, set AA to 100% and break the knob lol.
do you think its asking to much to make sure that everything you do in the game is actually part of the game and is intertwined with the lore? I dont think so.
The AA's look ok to me the same way most spec trees do. Its not that its bad it just its just another points system with no context.
The real question is how much control you have over the class you choose and if it can differ from others of the same when it pertains to combat.
I am betting very little. I have little faith in developers anymore. Plus the fact that people are now trying to classify EQ as sandboxy because it didn't have quest or content, makes my head hurt. I'm discussed but oh well I guess we will see how sandboxy EQ can be.
Guild Wars 1 had the closest thing I'd ever call to a truly organic class system - the issue was, some combinations of classes were ridiculously powerful and synergized so well. Others became like parasitic twins... one just dragging the other down, locking the player into a choice of either playing a solo class or mixing and matching skills that, likely, result in a worse character than either class solo.
Changing tunes, if I had to pick my ideal progession system, I'd like to return to something like UO or Darkfall. You use a specific skill, you get better at it. How to balance it so there's not like only 3 specific ways to build a character, with all others being inferior... I have no idea. If I had that solution, I'd be making 6 figures, designing Blizzard's next gen MMO.
RPS: SOE’s Player Studio seems like an extension of that to me. Let players make their own new content. How far do you hope to expand that, though? Right now it’s just objects in games like EverQuest and eventually PlanetSide. Would you ever like to see players creating their own missions and gametypes, though?
John Smedley: Stay tuned. The answer is yes, wholeheartedly. We have plans for that that go out a long way, and a game that is going to dominate because of that kind of stuff.
It’s not just players making quests. Don’t think of it just as Dungeons & Dragons. What we’re actually building is the ability for players to put in systems. System-level stuff. We give them some rules, some basic simple rules, and they can make things out of whole cloth. They could build their own battlegrounds style of gameplay. That’s what we want. What we have is an amazing infrastructure and ability to let players do new and emerging things.
We want them to… Not make their own fun. We’re going to make our games amazingly fun. We want them to be able to make things we didn’t think of fun. That’s really what it is. I mentioned Hulkageddon, I love that in EVE. That’s just players putting bounties on something. It’s nothing. That’s all it is. But that’s as fun as anything in EVE. More fun if you ask me. It’s amazingly fun.
RPS: SOE’s Player Studio seems like an extension of that to me. Let players make their own new content. How far do you hope to expand that, though? Right now it’s just objects in games like EverQuest and eventually PlanetSide. Would you ever like to see players creating their own missions and gametypes, though?
John Smedley: Stay tuned. The answer is yes, wholeheartedly. We have plans for that that go out a long way, and a game that is going to dominate because of that kind of stuff.
It’s not just players making quests. Don’t think of it just as Dungeons & Dragons. What we’re actually building is the ability for players to put in systems. System-level stuff. We give them some rules, some basic simple rules, and they can make things out of whole cloth. They could build their own battlegrounds style of gameplay. That’s what we want. What we have is an amazing infrastructure and ability to let players do new and emerging things.
We want them to… Not make their own fun. We’re going to make our games amazingly fun. We want them to be able to make things we didn’t think of fun. That’s really what it is. I mentioned Hulkageddon, I love that in EVE. That’s just players putting bounties on something. It’s nothing. That’s all it is. But that’s as fun as anything in EVE. More fun if you ask me. It’s amazingly fun.
well that will be interesting for sure. im intrigued how they will merge that with the everquest game.
i am really really really hoping for a better system than the previous offerings. I hope that they do not have " levels" or experience in the game.
i would really love a hybrid system like eve online does so you can really pace yourself and not be focused on getting that level. I would also like there to be multiple ways to improve from multiple source. A track for your god, one for your class, one for your race and once for a player chosen organization or three.
like above some skills should be trainable after a certain time ( not time played), others should be findable, some should be required to be crafted and still others you need repeated exposure to the skill to begin learning it.
dont put us on a levelling treadmill. Make the game for a 5 year arc.
im sorry but eve's system is horrible. Its great for people who like to play MMO's for 1 or 2 hours a week. Because they can log in, set some shit to train, run a mission or transport something, and then log off.
The HUGE problem with the system is no matter what you do you can't bypass the time requirements. So if you want to fly a hulk, you HAVE to wait through 9 months, real life months, of training, etc.
With normal systems if you want to get really good at 2h swords you can spend more time getting xp or crafting or whatever it is you need to do, and actually get there quicker by investing more time.
EVE's system is really kind of stupid IMO, and this is from a guy who has almost 30million sp, so ive been there and done that.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
You are correct that the vehicle for gaining such abilities should be tied into the world but the process you spoke of is similar to EQ2's AA system. Race, subclass, class, trades are already there and then adding deity would be fantastic.
You are correct that the vehicle for gaining such abilities should be tied into the world but the process you spoke of is similar to EQ2's AA system. Race, subclass, class, trades are already there and then adding deity would be fantastic.
do you have to do anything special to get them or just randomly collect points?
It depends. I personally loved the level system of EQ... it was the best way to do leveling imo.
I enjoyed having plain levels... certain spells, skills, abilities open at each level.
And AA to me were the best thing for an MMO of the kind. It gave players a way to continue to better themselves after reaching max level or even top end gear. It helped to differentiate players as there were so many, people chose the AA that best suited their need.
For example.. warrior could get his defense AA or dps... etc. Typically, I would assume warrior would want defensives.
I played a monk, the AA's never had a best one to get first.
I could raise defenses so I could take hits while pulling, I could raise my run speed so I could get away while pulling, I could raise my fd skills so my fd would fail less or could be used more, or wouldn't break on spell casts etcs. I could also go the route of leveling up my dps in many different ways.
AA's or a similar feature is what WoW to present has been lacking for me. AA's also helped make up for lack of content because I could still better my player while I waited for content to become available.
No you adjusted a slider between % to level and % to AA. I think this would have to go in place of a system that not only included "faction" to kills and quests but also had other creative ways to progress each type of advancement.
EQ AAs are nice and they did a great job of continuing your fun past cap. I likes the rewards from EQ2 more though, that's just me.
i am really really really hoping for a better system than the previous offerings. I hope that they do not have " levels" or experience in the game.
i would really love a hybrid system like eve online does so you can really pace yourself and not be focused on getting that level. I would also like there to be multiple ways to improve from multiple source. A track for your god, one for your class, one for your race and once for a player chosen organization or three.
like above some skills should be trainable after a certain time ( not time played), others should be findable, some should be required to be crafted and still others you need repeated exposure to the skill to begin learning it.
dont put us on a levelling treadmill. Make the game for a 5 year arc.
im sorry but eve's system is horrible. Its great for people who like to play MMO's for 1 or 2 hours a week. Because they can log in, set some shit to train, run a mission or transport something, and then log off.
The HUGE problem with the system is no matter what you do you can't bypass the time requirements. So if you want to fly a hulk, you HAVE to wait through 9 months, real life months, of training, etc.
With normal systems if you want to get really good at 2h swords you can spend more time getting xp or crafting or whatever it is you need to do, and actually get there quicker by investing more time.
EVE's system is really kind of stupid IMO, and this is from a guy who has almost 30million sp, so ive been there and done that.
im certainly not against investing more time, which is why i said hybrid. Some things would take a long time to develop but not in its entirety. I dont believe everything should be able to be powered to the max almost instantly, but i do agree i wouldnt make a system based entirely on it. It would be more like 25% of the eve system, 25% finding the skills you need 25% faction related skills, 15% crafted related skills, 10% what i call experienced skills ( get hit by fireballs enough and you learn it, if it suits your class) and split all that between 4 different lines ( race/class/deity/other)
Besides, skill systems like this don't work. Look at UO or Darkfall. People just get the same skills that "work", and everyone turns out the same.
I'd rather have a system like Vanilla or BC WoW, where you have your 9-10 classes, three or four talent trees, and each tree makes you a unique type of character. Also, AA abilities from EQ to further customize your character. Racial abilities with some good utility to further define characters.
Player customization, and diversity among players is more important to me than EQ:N being "Revolutionary". Look at how that turned out for GW2... The game is trash.
Umm speaking of trash ^^. In vanilla WoW every person who played a class specced the same way for raiding, soloing or pvping. How is that unique at all?. See your first statement and then match that to your system idea.
Besides, skill systems like this don't work. Look at UO or Darkfall. People just get the same skills that "work", and everyone turns out the same.
I'd rather have a system like Vanilla or BC WoW, where you have your 9-10 classes, three or four talent trees, and each tree makes you a unique type of character. Also, AA abilities from EQ to further customize your character. Racial abilities with some good utility to further define characters.
Player customization, and diversity among players is more important to me than EQ:N being "Revolutionary". Look at how that turned out for GW2... The game is trash.
Umm speaking of trash ^^. In vanilla WoW every person who played a class specced the same way for raiding, soloing or pvping. How is that unique at all?. See your first statement and then match that to your system idea.
Yeah WoW's class system was incredibly limited, one of the worst out there. DAoC had a decent class system, but it was hard to balance. But it gave you tons of freedom for builds.
Besides, skill systems like this don't work. Look at UO or Darkfall. People just get the same skills that "work", and everyone turns out the same.
I'd rather have a system like Vanilla or BC WoW, where you have your 9-10 classes, three or four talent trees, and each tree makes you a unique type of character. Also, AA abilities from EQ to further customize your character. Racial abilities with some good utility to further define characters.
Player customization, and diversity among players is more important to me than EQ:N being "Revolutionary". Look at how that turned out for GW2... The game is trash.
Umm speaking of trash ^^. In vanilla WoW every person who played a class specced the same way for raiding, soloing or pvping. How is that unique at all?. See your first statement and then match that to your system idea.
Yeah WoW's class system was incredibly limited, one of the worst out there. DAoC had a decent class system, but it was hard to balance. But it gave you tons of freedom for builds.
Yeah the WoW system was and is crap. I would rather see something like Rift, TES or even Shadowbane had a good one. Base class could promote into many spec classes but some bases classes could promote to the same spec and gave it different benefits, Then you had Discipline runes which were many and you could take multiple combinations of those to really change your character up. So you would have a huge pool of skills but a limited number of skill points to spend in them. Meaning you could never have all at max level.
i am really really really hoping for a better system than the previous offerings. I hope that they do not have " levels" or experience in the game.
i would really love a hybrid system like eve online does so you can really pace yourself and not be focused on getting that level. I would also like there to be multiple ways to improve from multiple source. A track for your god, one for your class, one for your race and once for a player chosen organization or three.
like above some skills should be trainable after a certain time ( not time played), others should be findable, some should be required to be crafted and still others you need repeated exposure to the skill to begin learning it.
dont put us on a levelling treadmill. Make the game for a 5 year arc.
im sorry but eve's system is horrible. Its great for people who like to play MMO's for 1 or 2 hours a week. Because they can log in, set some shit to train, run a mission or transport something, and then log off.
The HUGE problem with the system is no matter what you do you can't bypass the time requirements. So if you want to fly a hulk, you HAVE to wait through 9 months, real life months, of training, etc.
With normal systems if you want to get really good at 2h swords you can spend more time getting xp or crafting or whatever it is you need to do, and actually get there quicker by investing more time.
EVE's system is really kind of stupid IMO, and this is from a guy who has almost 30million sp, so ive been there and done that.
im certainly not against investing more time, which is why i said hybrid. Some things would take a long time to develop but not in its entirety. I dont believe everything should be able to be powered to the max almost instantly, but i do agree i wouldnt make a system based entirely on it. It would be more like 25% of the eve system, 25% finding the skills you need 25% faction related skills, 15% crafted related skills, 10% what i call experienced skills ( get hit by fireballs enough and you learn it, if it suits your class) and split all that between 4 different lines ( race/class/deity/other)
I actually wouldn't mind a system like that. Basically you have some major skills that you have to train over time, but as you level or whatever you get minor skills. Kind of like how GW2 has that elite skill slot. Maybe they could make it so you get you're ultra badass, use once every 2 minutes swirly axe mayhem skill, but you have to train it over say 2 weeks time. And if you later want to switch to dual wield swords you can still get your normal button press skills, but you're dual wield elite skill you would have to train over a couple weeks or something like that.
I like the other thing someone mentioned about having a portion of the skills specific to your deity. Thats one thing i really miss from EQ1, was the deity. I was a mith marr paladin, vs some guys were tarew marr and stuff. Maybe have it so Mith Marr paladins excel with 1 hand blunt whereas if you choose another deity maybe you get better 1h slash skills. etc.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
Comments
/signed
What if the core system was more like EQ's AA system but expanded? Small incremental steps that you care about but aren't obsessed about.
Because the elements that interact with the world may have nothing to do with what class you play. Crafting and skills of the like may not be bound to class. Full skill systems are typically a mind trick. You decide you want melee then are forced to pick most of your other skills to support melee (armor, defences, etc) and you are templated into a build often more restrictive than a class. Skill systems often also lack secondary or tertiary skill modification mechanics because of how easy it is to exploit outside of more stringent class systems.
It is all about how the game is set up. Until that time every one is merely throwing about conjecture. I enjoy both systems depending on the game. I have also played many rpg game systems over 30 years to know the draw back and benefits of either approach. There is no requirement what so ever for a sandbox game to be a pure skill system. The sandbox elements are not restricted by how your character fights or groups in the world. All sandbox options can easily reside outside of the character combat theme.
The real question is how much control you have over the class you choose and if it can differ from others of the same when it pertains to combat.
You stay sassy!
Think that would be kind of cool. Maybe instead of the exp = levels put all your exp into the AA abilities and depending on the class you want to play you can spend those points as needed. Base stats you can put 100 of each into along with all the other abilities that were in the original AA tree + new ones. Eventually you could max everything out, but you'd have to increase the exp needed and points needed for the most powerful abilties and maxing out as you gain more. Would really give a huge sense of customizability and if you look at how many people have actually maxed out the AA tree, at least when I was playing, it was very very few.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2
Nytlok Sylas
80 Sylvari Ranger
I just linked this on the EQNext forums. Their programmers are looking at it now.
I read often, in forums of various games, that some folks desire a non leveling game, or no exp. I look at this from a different perspective, no matter whether you kill mobs or quest to get exp or empower your character via events, dungeons, or whatever , its still a type of character leveling or empowering. Sometimes change is good, but even if you began at game at end lvl and began dungeons/raids to get geared up, you are still, in essence, leveling your characters power up. Just doing it different ways.
So i just dont get that people say no exp or questing will be the Next Big Thing. Its still going to be some journey you take your characters on to power/level them up. I try to create fun and have a good time when i play. That is my entertainment in gaming!
PS: I usually do have top geared/leveled characters in games i play. But having them isnt the Goal of playing the game. Playing the game to have fun is the goal. Getting LvL'd /Geared is just part of the way i do it. It wouldnt matter to me if i started a game at end lvl with raid gear < i probly wouldnt like that, no sence of accomplishment > as long as i have the opportunity in the game to have fun playing it! Empowering my characters stronger and stronger, no matter how its done!
the key point for me is that there is some lore to the whole process. I didnt just grind the most efficient monster i could find until i maxed out. We all know this happens alot. Players will find the most efficient point and work it as long as possible. Its just nature.
i mean if your a follower of cazic thule, should you not be able to advance and get skills and abilities that are related to cazic thule? That makes sense to me.
If your a troll should you not be able to advance and get skills and abilities related to being a troll?
if you are aligned with "Grobb berserkers" should you not be able to adcance and gain skills and abilities related to the that faction.
lets take it a step further...
you have a player guild and the guild can also do the exact same thing and earn skills and abilities that you can set and everyone in the guild gets the same access to the ability. They dont have to be combat related, they could be useful type skills.
the way i see it, anything that can be done in a gameplay context should be. You might actually enjoy being a troll shadowknight that worships cazic thule is you actually were a part of those things.
I honestly dont know how AA's work because i finished eq before they came out (Luclin i believe). perhaps someone can enlighten me.
Agree 100% and it would make for better gameplay as long as there wasn't a base level system to "min/max" to. Here is a run down of AAs in EQ and EQ2:
EQ
http://everquest.allakhazam.com/wiki/EQ:AA
EQ2
http://eq2.zam.com/wiki/Alternate_Advancements_(EQ2)
In EQ it was basically a slow way to still progress even after you hit max level. In EQ2 is seemed to be more useful early on and gives you additional abilities you wouldn't have otherwise along with effects. I like the EQ2 version better and it fits more with what you are talking about. If they were to take the EQ2 version of AA and expanded it more I don't see how a level system would be needed in a sandbox type environment. This isn't out of the realm of possibility since a lot of cross over design makes sense. Kill levels, set AA to 100% and break the knob lol.
This would be fine with me. Just so long as they make things distinctive and allow for options to gain factions with different groups like EQ1. Let me be from Qeynos but kill my own guards to ruin faction if I want. Just some more freedom and some sandbox stuff thrown in to increase play time past a few months. I can't even imagine playing an MMO for longer than 4 months it's been so long since one was released and meant to be enjoyed for longer than six months.
I know it's a long shot, but I would be most pleased to see a system like Pre-NGE SWG. They designed it once, why can't they do something similar.
I can see it now Master Acrobat Rogue/Master Melee Ranger/Part DoT Shaman
This would be truly amazing.
do you think its asking to much to make sure that everything you do in the game is actually part of the game and is intertwined with the lore? I dont think so.
The AA's look ok to me the same way most spec trees do. Its not that its bad it just its just another points system with no context.
i need alot of context these days
I am betting very little. I have little faith in developers anymore. Plus the fact that people are now trying to classify EQ as sandboxy because it didn't have quest or content, makes my head hurt. I'm discussed but oh well I guess we will see how sandboxy EQ can be.
Guild Wars 1 had the closest thing I'd ever call to a truly organic class system - the issue was, some combinations of classes were ridiculously powerful and synergized so well. Others became like parasitic twins... one just dragging the other down, locking the player into a choice of either playing a solo class or mixing and matching skills that, likely, result in a worse character than either class solo.
Changing tunes, if I had to pick my ideal progession system, I'd like to return to something like UO or Darkfall. You use a specific skill, you get better at it. How to balance it so there's not like only 3 specific ways to build a character, with all others being inferior... I have no idea. If I had that solution, I'd be making 6 figures, designing Blizzard's next gen MMO.
smed gave some plans for SOE Player Studio
may be part of EQNext too
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/10/13/planetside-2-eq-next-and-soes-player-driven-future/
RPS: SOE’s Player Studio seems like an extension of that to me. Let players make their own new content. How far do you hope to expand that, though? Right now it’s just objects in games like EverQuest and eventually PlanetSide. Would you ever like to see players creating their own missions and gametypes, though?
John Smedley: Stay tuned. The answer is yes, wholeheartedly. We have plans for that that go out a long way, and a game that is going to dominate because of that kind of stuff.
It’s not just players making quests. Don’t think of it just as Dungeons & Dragons. What we’re actually building is the ability for players to put in systems. System-level stuff. We give them some rules, some basic simple rules, and they can make things out of whole cloth. They could build their own battlegrounds style of gameplay. That’s what we want. What we have is an amazing infrastructure and ability to let players do new and emerging things.
We want them to… Not make their own fun. We’re going to make our games amazingly fun. We want them to be able to make things we didn’t think of fun. That’s really what it is. I mentioned Hulkageddon, I love that in EVE. That’s just players putting bounties on something. It’s nothing. That’s all it is. But that’s as fun as anything in EVE. More fun if you ask me. It’s amazingly fun.
EQ2 fan sites
well that will be interesting for sure. im intrigued how they will merge that with the everquest game.
im sorry but eve's system is horrible. Its great for people who like to play MMO's for 1 or 2 hours a week. Because they can log in, set some shit to train, run a mission or transport something, and then log off.
The HUGE problem with the system is no matter what you do you can't bypass the time requirements. So if you want to fly a hulk, you HAVE to wait through 9 months, real life months, of training, etc.
With normal systems if you want to get really good at 2h swords you can spend more time getting xp or crafting or whatever it is you need to do, and actually get there quicker by investing more time.
EVE's system is really kind of stupid IMO, and this is from a guy who has almost 30million sp, so ive been there and done that.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche
You are correct that the vehicle for gaining such abilities should be tied into the world but the process you spoke of is similar to EQ2's AA system. Race, subclass, class, trades are already there and then adding deity would be fantastic.
do you have to do anything special to get them or just randomly collect points?
It depends. I personally loved the level system of EQ... it was the best way to do leveling imo.
I enjoyed having plain levels... certain spells, skills, abilities open at each level.
And AA to me were the best thing for an MMO of the kind. It gave players a way to continue to better themselves after reaching max level or even top end gear. It helped to differentiate players as there were so many, people chose the AA that best suited their need.
For example.. warrior could get his defense AA or dps... etc. Typically, I would assume warrior would want defensives.
I played a monk, the AA's never had a best one to get first.
I could raise defenses so I could take hits while pulling, I could raise my run speed so I could get away while pulling, I could raise my fd skills so my fd would fail less or could be used more, or wouldn't break on spell casts etcs. I could also go the route of leveling up my dps in many different ways.
AA's or a similar feature is what WoW to present has been lacking for me. AA's also helped make up for lack of content because I could still better my player while I waited for content to become available.
No you adjusted a slider between % to level and % to AA. I think this would have to go in place of a system that not only included "faction" to kills and quests but also had other creative ways to progress each type of advancement.
EQ AAs are nice and they did a great job of continuing your fun past cap. I likes the rewards from EQ2 more though, that's just me.
im certainly not against investing more time, which is why i said hybrid. Some things would take a long time to develop but not in its entirety. I dont believe everything should be able to be powered to the max almost instantly, but i do agree i wouldnt make a system based entirely on it. It would be more like 25% of the eve system, 25% finding the skills you need 25% faction related skills, 15% crafted related skills, 10% what i call experienced skills ( get hit by fireballs enough and you learn it, if it suits your class) and split all that between 4 different lines ( race/class/deity/other)
Umm speaking of trash ^^. In vanilla WoW every person who played a class specced the same way for raiding, soloing or pvping. How is that unique at all?. See your first statement and then match that to your system idea.
Yeah WoW's class system was incredibly limited, one of the worst out there. DAoC had a decent class system, but it was hard to balance. But it gave you tons of freedom for builds.
Yeah the WoW system was and is crap. I would rather see something like Rift, TES or even Shadowbane had a good one. Base class could promote into many spec classes but some bases classes could promote to the same spec and gave it different benefits, Then you had Discipline runes which were many and you could take multiple combinations of those to really change your character up. So you would have a huge pool of skills but a limited number of skill points to spend in them. Meaning you could never have all at max level.
I actually wouldn't mind a system like that. Basically you have some major skills that you have to train over time, but as you level or whatever you get minor skills. Kind of like how GW2 has that elite skill slot. Maybe they could make it so you get you're ultra badass, use once every 2 minutes swirly axe mayhem skill, but you have to train it over say 2 weeks time. And if you later want to switch to dual wield swords you can still get your normal button press skills, but you're dual wield elite skill you would have to train over a couple weeks or something like that.
I like the other thing someone mentioned about having a portion of the skills specific to your deity. Thats one thing i really miss from EQ1, was the deity. I was a mith marr paladin, vs some guys were tarew marr and stuff. Maybe have it so Mith Marr paladins excel with 1 hand blunt whereas if you choose another deity maybe you get better 1h slash skills. etc.
"The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."
- Friedrich Nietzsche