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So much for events are dynamic...(and why we can never have good things)

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  • meddyckmeddyck Athens, GAPosts: 1,140Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully

    It's bad design.

     

    People follow the path of least resistance. From fishing for kills at the base entance in swtor, to people farming the Stilmore spawn in RIFT (at first/ designs changed) to the Fusang facility Zerg in TSW.  It's all bad design. 

    Yep bad design. You should be able to afford or acquire reasonable end game gear by the time you reach level cap. But unless you have followed certain specific strategies to max your gold in GW 2, you will fall well short. So you either grind for gold/karma or buy gems with RL $ and convert them to gold. You would think completing your personal story should either give you a full set of exotic gear or enough gold to buy the same when combined with what you have from normal playing, but that isn't the case either. So your choices are grind, craft your own stuff if you can afford to, buy gems and convert them to gold, or forget about level 80 and just reroll.

    Camelot Unchained Backer
    DAOC [retired]: R11 Cleric R11 Druid R11 Minstrel R9 Eldritch R6 Sorc R6 Scout R5 Healer

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Or do all of those, or stop playing because you do t find any of that fun. If you are stupid enough to play a game you don't enjoy then you are creating you own problems.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • AegisSagaAegisSaga Miami, FLPosts: 33Member
    Originally posted by The_Korrigan
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

    What people say on forums about 'optional grind' and reality in game is quite different. People under estimate the amount of grind peple are ready to do for simply looking different. If this doesn't prove it then nothing will.

    Yeah, its more of a one-off grind. You still have to grind to get full exotic in one way or another. Karma grind, PvP grind, money grind (for crafted) or Dungeon Grind.

    If there was an easy to obtain but ugly set of Exotic gear then people would be less focused on the grind and more focused on doing things they want to do, unfortunately unless you did AC explorable mode repeatedly to level up, chances are it will take you a while to get fully exotic once you are 80.

    A full set of crafted exotics armor costs less than 10g, and that's if you don't have guildies who have armorcrafting (or if you don't have it yourself).

    Stop exagerating and posting misinformation.

     

    I haven't played GW2 for about 2 weeks now, but back then when I got my full exotic gear with gold it cost me 50g and upwards of 70g with the sigils and runes (with only one weapon set and underwater weapon). Crafting was useless since buying the raw materials and crafting the pieces was actually MORE expensive than buying the finished product. Again, I don't know if things changed since I stopped playing, but that is how it was: a huge grind. 

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
     
     
  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon

    Pretty much the whole "Dynamic Event" deal boasted by GW2 is just glitter and sparkels. It doesn't exist. Most of it is very genrick with it being often a simple 'event step' program which lacks really much in terms of advancement or even variation to 'spice' it up. There are a few events that do have some more effect but they are very few and far between. The end areas are pretty much making laps with a zerg which is anything but fun and more so a 'get to boss, press 1, afk' event.

     

    Over-all, their dynamic events actually feel weaker then rift. As simple as 'rifts open, invasions poor to capture points, defend and stop it' is, its a lot more dynamic then most events in GW2. Don't get me wrong, the events they do have can be a bit more entertaining then standerd quests, but they are far from that dynamic aspec tthat makes them really feel that exciting after seeing it for the 20th time in a row in very predictable patterns.

  • eye_meye_m Notta Chance, ABPosts: 3,133Member Uncommon

    so what you are saying is that a large number of people is playing the game in the fashion that they want, and because the way that these people play doesn't coincide with the way that you want to play, the game is broken.

     

     

    All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.

    I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.

    I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Puritzil that's all they are meant to be, more interesting than quests. The sparkle crap comes from forums like this.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Put it this way, the most dynamic thing we could use to be 'dynamic' is the human brain - and that simply means greater pattern recognition and cognitive experimentation. People getting high and mighty about 'dynamic' should offer the new solution that goes beyond patterns and experimentation- should be an interesting read :)

    Take your typical "defend this spot from centaurs" event, and add these random variables;

    1. spawn types - sometimes a few centaurs, sometimes a lot, sometimes including veterans or even a named leader type, drawn from a pool of centaur characters.
    2. spawn path - they come from one of three different centaur camps, the path of one overlapping with a nearby bandit event (also random, so a little rare, but resulting in possible bandit vs centaur chaos.)
    3. event location - they simply attack one of three different spots, so until the event happens, you don't know where it will be.  
    4. event timing - might happen again in a few minutes, might not be for another few hours.  You'd never know.
    5. Randomize some event NPCs that spawn to help defend, partially scaled to the number of nearby players, or lack thereof.
    Sure, it'd still be a pattern, but it'd be impossible to predict, because it'd simply be shuffled every time, and play out differently every time.
     
    Multiply that by most of the events in the game, and you'd have a crazy world where all sorts of unpredictable things happen..

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by eyelolled

    so what you are saying is that a large number of people is playing the game in the fashion that they want, and because the way that these people play doesn't coincide with the way that you want to play, the game is broken.

     

     

    No not even close. Try again.

  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dulu

    Just awful design.

     

    They had to know this was coming. Can't see why people are still playing this awful game.

    Tell me, how many games don't have this problem when it comes to acquiring points for something or other. 

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

    What people say on forums about 'optional grind' and reality in game is quite different. People under estimate the amount of grind peple are ready to do for simply looking different. If this doesn't prove it then nothing will.

    Yeah, its more of a one-off grind. You still have to grind to get full exotic in one way or another. Karma grind, PvP grind, money grind (for crafted) or Dungeon Grind.

    If there was an easy to obtain but ugly set of Exotic gear then people would be less focused on the grind and more focused on doing things they want to do, unfortunately unless you did AC explorable mode repeatedly to level up, chances are it will take you a while to get fully exotic once you are 80.

    Follow the method in my OP and you will have cultural exotics in no time. Why would you even bother for crafted exotics?

    Granted you have the stomach for such a grind. People in these zerg trains are making 30 to 40 gold in couple of days.

    Plinx trains gives you karma as well as gold so it covers majority of your grinds at one place.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    That's my point we are just talking more complexity of variables and triggers. At one end of the spectrum we have a single static quest, at the other end we have such complexity we users cannot spot the pattern. All gw2 does is move the benchmark a little further down this 'dynamic' scale. That's good btw not bad.

    Everyone can say I want it more dynamic, I'm sure Anet devs say the same. Il

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Reply to vhaln^^

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • grimgryphongrimgryphon Pacific Northwest, WAPosts: 682Member
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

    So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

    Optional PvP = No PvP
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Teleporting should never have been put in the game for this exact reason...
  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by grimgryphon

    Originally posted by IPolygon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

    So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

     

    we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

    So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

     

    we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

    Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

    This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

    There is no gaming system ever created, where players in large numbers do not quickly adopt the path of least resistance.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by halflife25

    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

    So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

     

    we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

    Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

    This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

     

    there's plenty other events and ways to get karma than just running the same couple events hell even dungeons give karma now

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

    So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

     

    we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

    Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

    This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

     

    there's plenty other events and ways to get karma than just running the same couple events hell even dungeons give karma now

    Yeah but which one are quickest and have least down time? all these factors are very important. And right now Plinx trains beat everything else.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

    There is no gaming system ever created, where players in large numbers do not quickly adopt the path of least resistance.

    Actually there are: the system just needs to lead to a problem so difficult that whoever sits on the solution does not release the solution to the public.

     

    Edit: Of course, it depends on  if you refer a "local" "path of least resistance" as in only the alternatives you've tested or "global" in the sense that even those paths you haven't tested are taken into consideration.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

    So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

     

    we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

    Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

    This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

    Again, you are making a generalization. Not all players just do those events. Many do but not all. We definately can't blame the players that do that though, it happens in all games.

     

    BTW its like every week that I have to remind posters that generalizations are always wrong. Didn't know so many people didn't know or just don't care.

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  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by halflife25

    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

    So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

     

    we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

    Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

    This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

     

    there's plenty other events and ways to get karma than just running the same couple events hell even dungeons give karma now

    Yeah but which one are quickest and have least down time? all these factors are very important. And right now Plinx trains beat everything else.

     

    this is important to you why? You have tons of options to get good amounts of karma

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

    So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

     

    we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

    Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

    This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

     

    there's plenty other events and ways to get karma than just running the same couple events hell even dungeons give karma now

    Yeah but which one are quickest and have least down time? all these factors are very important. And right now Plinx trains beat everything else.

     

    this is important to you why? You have tons of options to get good amounts of karma

    I suppose one would have to do a "karma per hour" analysis of the different options to see how "good" different options are.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by grimgryphon
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

    So they're scripted events with random follow-up scripted events? Gotcha.

     

    we are playing video games here with NPCs all NPCs in any game follow a script in some way or another.. prefer this over going to the same zone doing the same scripted quest the same exact way everytime

    Ummm....what else do you think players are doing in Cursed Shore right now running between Plinx, Penitent and Shelter. Cursed Shore is an end game zone for lvl 80's and best karma and gold  rewards for PVE.

    This is exactly the point i am trying to bring in OP and even asked if it is players to be blamed or bad game design which makes only three events relevant and rest useless.

     

    there's plenty other events and ways to get karma than just running the same couple events hell even dungeons give karma now

    Yeah but which one are quickest and have least down time? all these factors are very important. And right now Plinx trains beat everything else.

     

    this is important to you why? You have tons of options to get good amounts of karma

    Are you seriously asking me why? because it kills half of the zone and i like to do DE'S but can not solo the damn Cursed Shore on my own because zerg only want to farm three events for gold and karma. isn't that the waste of resources and Anet's hard work?

    And in OP if you read it i already said that i did this routine for two days, got stick to my stomach and went back to W v W.

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