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So much for events are dynamic...(and why we can never have good things)

halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member

So i have been taking a break from PVP these days and decided to spend more time in Cursed Shore. I usually travel there only to collect ori but for last few days i have been spending more time in ORR. i was pretty excited actually and was looking forward to these huge meta events but what i have found is really disappointing.

(this is about my server far shiverpeak so not sure how it works on other servers)

People farm two to three events only with an ocassional grenth or melandru (mostly it is ignored). All these events are on timer and people just go afk waiting for the timer to end.

Zerg starts from location of Plinx events (Fields Of Gold), if broodmother is up (since it is in same area) they kill it and then move on to penitent, once completed next stop is Shelter.

Then zerg stops, goes afk..waiting for Plinx event to start and rinse and repeat. To explain what i am talking about.

On my server all these three locations are simply referred to as 'Plinx train'. 

I was so disappointed but since i needed karma and make some gold i decided to follow. I did those for a day or two and got bored out of my mind. All other events on maps are ignored for two main reasons

 

1;) High cost of teleports from one waypoint to another.

2;) Contested waypoints which don't allow teleport or the nusiance of running through hordes of unded to reach your location.

 

So by doing this not only you save teleport costs but repair bills. Not to mention quick amount of gold you make by continuous farming of these three locations.

And since Plinx, Penitent and Shelter in close proximity and can be repeated every 10 to 15 minutes it is like being in merry go round. This kills whole 'dynamic' nature of zones and events.

Who is to blame here? players or bad design which encourages people to farm karma continuously within these three locations. Also since DR has been reduced recently and they are not actually staying in one locaiton and movig between three spots in close proximity, DR is not a problem.

I have decided not to ride this merry go round anymore and went back to PVP once again. its because of tactics like these which leads to nerfing of karma by Anet.

 

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Comments

  • IPolygonIPolygon ViennaPosts: 707Member Uncommon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.
  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

    Something which is completely destroyed by karma farmers.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Yep something similar is definately happening in my server. Im sure that's not what the design inteded for, you can actually see how its supposed to work but players always find the short route. I wouldn't blame the players though, but you can go move around different places with a small group. Not sure if anet is going to do something about it.

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  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Yep something similar is definately happening in my server. Im sure that's not what the design inteded for, you can actually see how its supposed to work but players always find the short route. I wouldn't blame the players though, but you can go move around different places with a small group. Not sure if anet is going to do something about it.

    Trust me i have tried. Arah was contested but no one wanted to come because there is not much profit in terms of gold and karma by travelling to far locations.

  • mmoguy43mmoguy43 , CAPosts: 2,439Member Uncommon
    I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh
  • LethalJaxxLethalJaxx NijmegenPosts: 105Member
    It's not much better in WvW, at least on my server. It generally ends up into groups of each server running circles after eachother capping the same points for hours. Fast Karma, yes. Fun? no.
  • timeraidertimeraider BredaPosts: 568Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by LethalJaxx
    It's not much better in WvW, at least on my server. It generally ends up into groups of each server running circles after eachother capping the same points for hours. Fast Karma, yes. Fun? no.

    you are forced to do the same?

    Main games: Heroes of the Storm, Starcraft 2, Brawlhalla
    Waiting for: Overwatch

  • XiaokiXiaoki White Pigeon, MIPosts: 2,601Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh
    When faced with a grind the players will inevitably devise a way to most efficiently grind that grind.


    But really, the Karma gear is 42,000 a piece. That would be about 100 to 120 Gold DEs PER PIECE.


    How is that fun?

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Virginia, VAPosts: 2,131Member
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

    Maybe because several people think that getting a reward for which you worked hard to obtain, is very satisfying. I wouldn't perhaps use the word "fun", but indeed "satisfying".  Something that can also be "satisfying" is to find methods to make this "grind" easier. I suppose some people fundamentally overall "like" working hard to achieve goals and solving problems; perhaps not every step of the way but if you look at the whole, yes. 

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Xiaoki

     


    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

    When faced with a grind the players will inevitably devise a way to most efficiently grind that grind.

     


    But really, the Karma gear is 42,000 a piece. That would be about 100 to 120 Gold DEs PER PIECE.


    How is that fun?

    People also do this merry go round for gold. I know people who bought their one or two peices of cultural just by follwing plinx train in just 2 days.

    Yes it is that ridiculously fast. Just stack magic find from head to toe, slot an aoe skill and go crazy.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Yep something similar is definately happening in my server. Im sure that's not what the design inteded for, you can actually see how its supposed to work but players always find the short route. I wouldn't blame the players though, but you can go move around different places with a small group. Not sure if anet is going to do something about it.

    Trust me i have tried. Arah was contested but no one wanted to come because there is not much profit in terms of gold and karma by travelling to far locations.

    By small group I meant a group of friends or guildies not randoms.

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  • nsignificnsignific ljPosts: 212Member

    You're not playing it right.

    /sorry

    Obviously, game design only goes so far. People will *ALWAYS* find an easy way offering the least resistance.

    To be blunt, arenanet (and their vocal fanboys) were pretty naive in a lot of their thinking (progression, "fun", etc).

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Yep something similar is definately happening in my server. Im sure that's not what the design inteded for, you can actually see how its supposed to work but players always find the short route. I wouldn't blame the players though, but you can go move around different places with a small group. Not sure if anet is going to do something about it.

    Trust me i have tried. Arah was contested but no one wanted to come because there is not much profit in terms of gold and karma by travelling to far locations.

    By small group I meant a group of friends or guildies not randoms.

    If we could take those bad ass champion bosses at Arah and complete melandru only with a small group of friends, i think we would have done that by now. These events don't scale according to small groups especially not the major ones. 4 or 5 people can not even dent it.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,260Member Uncommon

    It's bad design.

     

    People follow the path of least resistance. From fishing for kills at the base entance in swtor, to people farming the Stilmore spawn in RIFT (at first/ designs changed) to the Fusang facility Zerg in TSW.  It's all bad design. 

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

    What people say on forums about 'optional grind' and reality in game is quite different. People under estimate the amount of grind peple are ready to do for simply looking different. If this doesn't prove it then nothing will.

  • DuluDulu Orange Park, FLPosts: 57Member

    Just awful design.

     

    They had to know this was coming. Can't see why people are still playing this awful game.

  • evilastroevilastro EdinburghPosts: 4,270Member
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

    What people say on forums about 'optional grind' and reality in game is quite different. People under estimate the amount of grind peple are ready to do for simply looking different. If this doesn't prove it then nothing will.

    Yeah, its more of a one-off grind. You still have to grind to get full exotic in one way or another. Karma grind, PvP grind, money grind (for crafted) or Dungeon Grind.

    If there was an easy to obtain but ugly set of Exotic gear then people would be less focused on the grind and more focused on doing things they want to do, unfortunately unless you did AC explorable mode repeatedly to level up, chances are it will take you a while to get fully exotic once you are 80.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Yep something similar is definately happening in my server. Im sure that's not what the design inteded for, you can actually see how its supposed to work but players always find the short route. I wouldn't blame the players though, but you can go move around different places with a small group. Not sure if anet is going to do something about it.

    Trust me i have tried. Arah was contested but no one wanted to come because there is not much profit in terms of gold and karma by travelling to far locations.

    By small group I meant a group of friends or guildies not randoms.

    If we could take those bad ass champion bosses at Arah and complete melandru only with a small group of friends, i think we would have done that by now. These events don't scale according to small groups especially not the major ones. 4 or 5 people can not even dent it.

    I wasn't specificaly talking about the big champion bosses, but to roam around doing all the events instead of just the ones run by the zerg.

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  • The_KorriganThe_Korrigan EastPosts: 2,630Member
    Originally posted by evilastro
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by mmoguy43
    I applaud the players finding a way to turn this into a grind. Now they will complain about DE grinds. Rewards > fun huh

    What people say on forums about 'optional grind' and reality in game is quite different. People under estimate the amount of grind peple are ready to do for simply looking different. If this doesn't prove it then nothing will.

    Yeah, its more of a one-off grind. You still have to grind to get full exotic in one way or another. Karma grind, PvP grind, money grind (for crafted) or Dungeon Grind.

    If there was an easy to obtain but ugly set of Exotic gear then people would be less focused on the grind and more focused on doing things they want to do, unfortunately unless you did AC explorable mode repeatedly to level up, chances are it will take you a while to get fully exotic once you are 80.

    A full set of crafted exotics armor costs less than 10g, and that's if you don't have guildies who have armorcrafting (or if you don't have it yourself).

    Stop exagerating and posting misinformation.

    If you wonder why I don't answer your posts, it's most likely because you are on my block list - so don't waste your time.

    image

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member
    Originally posted by IPolygon
    They are called dynamic events, because they may have several states and according to that several different follow-up dynamic events, which can change the map in turn. They are not called dynamic events for anything else. DE may scale, but the innovation of GW2's content is not found in an innovative scaling system, but the design of the core content.

     

    A more accurate term would be Scripted Events, then.  The only thing that's dynamic, is how they scale to number of players.. and they don't even do that particularly well.

     

    I really wish they were more random.  Then, not only would they be indisputably dynamic, but they'd be a hell of a lot more difficult to just farm monotonously.  but then they'd also be harder to control, and most devs seem to be such control freaks these days.

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • NaeviusNaevius Houston, TXPosts: 334Member Uncommon

    So far Arena Net has been good about adjusting the game as they get feedback, so I would definitely make sure they see stuff like this on the official forums. They have already said they will change the way events scale to improve that aspect.

     

    I agree that waypoint costs and repair costs distort the way people play the game, which is unfortunate. Neither existed in GW1.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Yes scripts, triggers, patterns and memory all contribute to dynamic content. It all boils down to 1111's and 0000's at the end of the day.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Put it this way, the most dynamic thing we could use to be 'dynamic' is the human brain - and that simply means greater pattern recognition and cognitive experimentation. People getting high and mighty about 'dynamic' should offer the new solution that goes beyond patterns and experimentation- should be an interesting read :)

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • fundayzfundayz Chatown, ONPosts: 463Member
    Originally posted by Dulu

    Just awful design.

     

    They had to know this was coming. Can't see why people are still playing this awful game.

    Yes, a couple of events can be farmed (at no real detriment to other players) so clearly the whole game is just downright broken.

     

     

     

    Oh wait.....

     

    I don't get people like you and Bcbully. Did you really expect GW2, or any other game  for that matter, to be absolutely flawless? The fact that the game still manages not to hurt players' fun in spite of relatively few loopholes/exploits is a testament to the great underlying design.

    If you go through life raging at every little thing that isn't perfect you must be very bitter person in real life.

     

     

    Originally posted by Vhaln

    A more accurate term would be Scripted Events, then.  The only thing that's dynamic, is how they scale to number of players.. and they don't even do that particularly well.

     

    I really wish they were more random.  Then, not only would they be indisputably dynamic, but they'd be a hell of a lot more difficult to just farm monotonously.  but then they'd also be harder to control, and most devs seem to be such control freaks these days.

    Dynamic =/= unpredictable

    How people still don't understand this kinda puzzles me. "Dynamic" simply means that something changes depending on certain parameters.

    Dynamic events have different outcomes depending on player actions, they scale with number of players and DE's can interact when they happen to overlap.

    Also, harder to control content leads to even more exploitable scenarios.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,941Member Uncommon
    Bcbully started months ago complaining that everyone would quit through boredom at end game, 'no end game'. Now lo and behold that not happening, we are moving on to something else. The benchmark he often uses is TSW. As far as I can tell TSW is all about repeating content, that's all there is in fact. Bit odd.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

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