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Originally posted by Elikal Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by adam_nox I don't get the anti phasing posters. Explain what games are hurt by phasing and HOW. Phasing is pretty much the only way to make instancing not suck as bad.
How about just... not having instancing? There's a thought.
Why is phasing bad? Because it is entirely artificial. It's an illusion that doesn't last. The second you run into another person that sees what you don't see, illusion gone. Your choices don't mean jack shit. It's just an insult. A parlor trick the game expects you to lap up.
Decent games make world changes based on what all the players do, and keep a real virtual world going. Like Asheron's Call. Phasing is... just pathetic.
Phasing is the future? Phasing was outdated when it came out in 2006. It is a bad, lazy concept. If anything is the future, it's Dynamic Events, which ACTUALLY change the world.
Ok, a MMO with meaningful story AND without instances AND without phasing is impossibru! And a MMO without story would mean to fall back to year 2000 = no way.
Artificial? You ARE aware a computer game, all is artificial and illusionary? But it is the best of bad choices, so to speak. Absend of all impact is boring and yesterday's new, instancing is meh, so it IS the best solution, unless you have a better idea how to let people experience personal stories with impact?
Asherons Call... yeah which was so succesful. Lol. Making a permanent change based on the majority of all players is just humbug. Sorry.
I really think those who critizise phasing haven't thought this really through. For me phasing is one of THE best inventions of MMOs ever! It's like you tell me you don't love ice cream!! I have a personalized impact which lasts, I can share it with people, it stays and thus is meaningful and it isn't shut away from the game reality by an instance! Insances are 1000 times more artificial, as are the GW2-events which are reset 3 minutes after you done them!
GW2 events don't reset every 3 minutes. The success or failure of some can have lasting effects, sometimes for days. Now whether these outcomes mean much to the player other than a waypoint being inconveniently unavailable is something to debate, but your concept of GW2 events is complete wrong and you sound like you've never even played the game.
That being said, my initial thoughts on phasing were to be very critical of it. The idea of copies of the game world have no place in a sandbox MMORPG. But as details have come more in to focus, its clear this game is not a sandbox MMORPG. In fact its sounding more and more like the umpteenth themepark clone of a certain game that will remain unnamed. So in the respect, phasing might actually be a good fit for this game, since player populations will undoubtedly be crammed in tight spaces and without this artificial population thinning, it would feel quite claustrophobic.
But lets imagine this game was actually a spiritual successor of the single player fantasy sandbox games from the Elder Scrolls franchise, phasing would be a terrible fit for that. For sandbox games to work, player actions need to have lasting consequences in a single game world.
Originally posted by BillMurphy Originally posted by nycplayboy78 WHAT??!! Bill-O you where in the DC Metro and you didn't even reach out to me...YOU ARE DEAD TO ME....We could have grabbed some drinks...This is where my diablolical plan would've kicked in to get Bill-O drunk and have him spill the beans about the game...Evil plan thwarted...STOOPID MMORPG...Next time I will prevail.....HAHAHAHAHAHAHA....
I had no idea you lived there, man! Or it totally didn't register. Or I just wanted to avoid having you get me drunk and make me break NDA.
So, let me see if I get this right: you are journalists who were invited, but signed an NDA, then wrote this article? I guess that leaves two options:
1. You broke the NDA (nah...)
2. ZOS is directing what you can talk about, meaning they had to accept the article. Which pretty much explains the hype in it, and only minor issues on the not-so-positive side. Yeah, conspiracy theory, but sometimes even those are true.
About the game:
Not at all hyped about this game before reading this article. Now I know more about phasing and instance layers in this game, and that's not a positive for me. But the worst thing I learned from this article, is about the skills. I guess that when you hit 50, you'll be grinding for years to max out various combat/weapon skills, and that alone is a killer for me.
I went from "Will play when a trial is offered" to "NEVER". Thanks for opening my eyes about how horrible this game is becoming, Bill.
Just cant get exicited about this at all..........
This article put an overly optimistic spin on this game, like every article its about ass kissing to continue getting beta rights to play. When I was reading this all I could think about is how similiar this writing style was to TOR's articles. Im not talking about gameplay similarities between tor and teso, just the way they over hyped every aspect. I laughed at how they wrote about instanses
"But all of this gameplay goodness would be moot right, if you couldn’t find your friends? Well don’t worry about that either, because Zenimax has you covered. There’s only going to be one “Megaserver” when ESO launches. When one “layer” of a zone fills up, it’ll create another and put people into there. It’s not unlike say, Champions Online or DCUO’s technology. But ESO goes a few more profound steps further. You’ll be able to set your preferences so that it groups you into areas with like-minded players"
Seriously? talk about complete and utter BS, call it like it is, its instance with some options., But no look how this article builds up how awesome instances are. What a joke. I love how they used words like "megaserver" "profound". This is just going to be 1 profound peice of garbage that everyone has done a 100 times over.
What I pulled out of this is it is going to be extremely linear. and its going to be a heavily instanced game. Both of which I can not stand. Every main aspect of this game has been over done to the point that I cant even think about trying to play it.
Well elder scroll fans enjoy getting your money stolen yet again by a company cashing in on a name alone.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore) Now Playing: N/A Worst MMO: FFXIVFavorite MMO: FFXI
Originally posted by DavisFlight
It's been around for a long time. I don't know why we call it phasing. LotRO "invented it" and just called it instancing.
A bit of correction: Funcom invented "instancing" in 2001 for their mmo Anarchy Online. They created the tech to use for their random mission generators ( mission terminals ) and it went on from there.
Originally posted by Lawlmonster It's hard for me to take this game or the developers seriously when they say things like "it's impossible" in regards to creating an open world game, or that members from their team have all but said they have no problem catering to the themepark necessity all MMO's seem to think they're forced to design under. Some of the features sound like they're starting to head in the right direction, and I think it's pretty obvious that they're doing everything they can to distance themselves from the initial response that the first leak of information regarding TES had stirred. Hopefully for them, they'll continue listening to the feedback from those of the fans who weren't thrilled about what they were doing to the series.
Show me where the Devssaid it was impossible to create an open world? You're either misinformed (like so many other posters in this thread) or making things up!
The Devs stated that certain features were not optimal in an MMO setting and this is the truth.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2Waiting on: TESONext Flop: Planetside 2Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Originally posted by Zylaxx Originally posted by Lawlmonster It's hard for me to take this game or the developers seriously when they say things like "it's impossible" in regards to creating an open world game, or that members from their team have all but said they have no problem catering to the themepark necessity all MMO's seem to think they're forced to design under. Some of the features sound like they're starting to head in the right direction, and I think it's pretty obvious that they're doing everything they can to distance themselves from the initial response that the first leak of information regarding TES had stirred. Hopefully for them, they'll continue listening to the feedback from those of the fans who weren't thrilled about what they were doing to the series.
I think you're missing the point, but you're right: the "we can't do it" attitude has certainly been exaggerated. I apologize for my fault in that, but it isn't true that certain features aren't optimal for an MMO setting. They may not be optimal for their budget or management, that may not be fallacious.
"This is life! We suffer and slave and expire. That's it!" -Bernard Black (Dylan Moran)
Originally posted by Ackbar Classes? Me no likey classes.
Good thing classes dont mean much in this game, other then 6 skills you can use. The real beauty of this system is that any class can wear any armor and use any weapon and the skills you do get can be used in such a way as no 2 will be the same.
Originally posted by winter 5) Hotbars? Really Skyrim did great without them but MMO ESO must have tyhem because well its a MMo and all MMO's must have hotbars right?
Skyrim has hotbar too, it's that little quick-list of spells that you can use to quickly swap spells/items. I never understood in Skyrim why introduce a clumsy quick list as their version of hotbar, simply having the bar with visual icons is just superior and and does the exactly same job, but just plain better in every imaginable way. I'd actually love to see a mod for the PC Skyrim that turns that clumsy list into a clear visual hotbar.
Originally posted by Kuinn Originally posted by winter 5) Hotbars? Really Skyrim did great without them but MMO ESO must have tyhem because well its a MMo and all MMO's must have hotbars right?
i like the "hotbar" in Skyrim. i dont need to see it on my screen. i just have to know which spells are keybound to what. i hope the UI for this game is very minimalist. alot of games nowadays are too cluttered, i want to be able to see whats going on. that can be hard to do when my screen is full of icons and minimaps.
Skyrim's hotkeys and Favorites window was awful.
I think you could only bind 1-8 or something, and you couldn't bind a button to dual-wield consistently? And the favorites window got cluttered quickly if you were a spellcaster.
I don't need to see the buttons on my screen, but I do need more than a handful of hotkeys.
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan Originally posted by DavisFlight
I'm talking about the idea of having the world change partially based on instancing people away from one another. Such as, in Archet.
Originally posted by OG_Zorvan Originally posted by Zylaxx Hey listen, I know this site is known for its sandbox fanbois and hating on anything that seems popular but can we please cut the crap with the hate before it turns others off. Contrary to what you might believe, the written word has alot of power both for good and for bad and there are alot of players who may come across as jaded, uninformed, and outright anti-"whatever hate your spewing", when at one time they were either on the fence or had no knowledge of the game. Not to mention this hate has the power to convey wrong messages and creates animosity amongst the readers. Please if you dont like it, say your peace and move on, some of us actually liek the game and for every negative thread I see I have this uncanny knack to prve you wrong and that also isnt healthy. Let the fans decide how this game comes across. No one likes a critic!
Go to the games official forums if you want sunshine and rainbows. These forums are for everyone, hater and fanboi alike.
Originally posted by Lawlmonster Originally posted by Zylaxx Originally posted by Lawlmonster It's hard for me to take this game or the developers seriously when they say things like "it's impossible" in regards to creating an open world game, or that members from their team have all but said they have no problem catering to the themepark necessity all MMO's seem to think they're forced to design under. Some of the features sound like they're starting to head in the right direction, and I think it's pretty obvious that they're doing everything they can to distance themselves from the initial response that the first leak of information regarding TES had stirred. Hopefully for them, they'll continue listening to the feedback from those of the fans who weren't thrilled about what they were doing to the series.
To be fair the devs are quoted as saying real-time combat like Skyrim in an MMORPG is "impossible."
Playing: War Thunder, World of Warcraft, and Grim DawnWaiting on:Everquest Next and The Black Desert
Originally posted by Tayah Originally posted by ste2000 What a mess. Sorry but this article not only didn't made me change my mind but confirmed all my fears. This is going to be another of those 1 month wonder themeparks. Not good enough. -SWTOR story system? No thanks -GW2 Quest system? No thanks -Phasing? No thanks -MegaServer plus Facebook, Google+ and all that plastic Social features? No thanks -Switching Classes at will? No thanks (forgot what is an RPG, Zenimax/Bethesda?) -Any hint of a Sandbox feature? Not even one. But the real questions are: 1- Is crafting focal to this game like in every TES? 2- Is the combat in First person or at least a close third person (character can't see behind his back) like in every TES? 3- Personal Storyline is secondary to Exploration like in every TES? ( Storyline has never been important in TES, sorry to tell you that Bill, you are confusing TES with Dragon Age) 4- Are you free to play the game the way you want it, like in every TES? The answers to those question so far is a big NO, so to me not only this is not going to be a good TES game, but another boring and shallow Themepark. This game has nothing new to bring to the MMO industry while at the same time it has the power to kill the TES IP. Zenimax should do the same as SoE did (with EQnext) scrapping this game and rebuild it to be a real TES game with "some" sandbox features, or it will fail badly.
Summed up a lot of my thoughts on TESO.
Same here. I gotta wait til i can actually try it before i even consider getting it.
Layered zones with a player cap and overflow is a terrible idea in an MMO imo. I want to be in one big seamless virtual world with other players. Not segmeneted in blocks of instance zoning. Ugh. Was sounding good until I hit that bit of information.
I do like the idea of bringing social media into an MMO. Seems like this feature is long overdo.
Not crazy about the jack of all trades class system either. So basically everyone can be everything. Blah.
Originally posted by DavisFlight Originally posted by OG_Zorvan Originally posted by DavisFlight
Okay. But you asked why they call it "phasing" instead of "instancing".
"Instancing" merely separates people when there's too many in one area or blocks off an area for a specified group. Like in a dungeon, there's no difference in the dungeon your group is in and one another group is in, instancing merely separates the groups so they don't have to battle each other for loot.
"Instancing" is crowd control.
"Phasing" separates people according to content they have or have not done. In your dungeon, the group might have chosen "Option A" while another group chose "Option B".
"Phasing" is content control.
"Instancing" and "phasing" are similar to each other at the base level yes, but two separate mechanics in function.
TL,DR version: Funcom created "instancing", LotRO created "phasing", and you and I just had a civil discourse. IMAGINE THAT!!
Edit: One more note: EAware's most grievous error in regards to the SWToR world was stacking "instancing" and "phasing" on top of each other everywhere you went, making even the most populated server feel like it never had more than 10 people on it outside of the Fleets.
If Zenimax makes that mistake with TESO, TESO will fall faster than ToR.
Originally posted by TheHavok OH GOD NOT AGAIN. I'M SUPER EXCITED ABOUT A GAME THAT IS MONTHS AND MONTHS AWAY. WHY GOD? WHY DO YOU DO THIS TO ME?!!
Aww, now now. We have a saying in Germany "Pre-Happyness is the best happyness" (Vorfreude ist die schönste Freude.) ^^
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Originally posted by ste2000 What a mess. Sorry but this article not only didn't made me change my mind but confirmed all my fears. This is going to be another of those 1 month wonder themeparks. Not good enough. -SWTOR story system? No thanks -GW2 Quest system? No thanks -Phasing? No thanks -MegaServer plus Facebook, Google+ and all that plastic Social features? No thanks -Switching Classes at will? No thanks (forgot what is an RPG, Zenimax/Bethesda?) -Any hint of a Sandbox feature? Not even one.
You sound like someone who was going to dislike it regardless of an article. No amount of words or previes can change your mind unfortunately. The next thing you do after blatantly admitting that you don't like the game to begin with, you start to list crass comparisons to random games and even throw Google and Facebook into the mix. I think your troll unguent became quite apparent after you said Facebook and plastic features. If you look around you many people, especially after the release of GW2 have been literally crying for a more social game. People have been asking for a story driven, explorer centric game. Just because your'e a lone wolf who wants to go it alone and be the only hero in the galaxy doesn't mean that we all do.
What it looks like to me is that you are a BIG TES fan and are just butt hurt that Bethesda decided to make an MMO of it. Somethign that most MMO fans and TES fans have been waiting for. Bethesda has the framework and the perfect RPG formula to pull it off. Why don't you untangle your thong and try to look at it objectively?
Oblivion was one of most boring, empy, games ever. Maybe 10 years before release would be great. Some say with player mods all changes, but at that time I did not know. Addons for wow are great, but could live without, would adapt.
Also no mouse for moving avatar? Knock, knock, ... any1 at home? Nowadays this is standard for mmo's? As for me this should be standard for any game. Yes, yes, ... i understand some are so used to wasd that can not give up, wasd stil have die hard fans.
I only just need to read somewhere that will be 1st person. :-) Another big no for immersion and practical use.