Originally posted by rungard people forget how good the faction system was in original eq. It was one of the best features in the game and i think its worthy of being improved.
to be honest don't remember been over a decade since i played EQ1:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Because of that EQ faction system - to this day - I still worry about who I am pissing off if I attack anything. =P
As to the original question, I used to guild up when I joined games. I cut my teeth in EQ and you pretty much had to be in a guild. As the years progressed and my real life became more real and less fantasy, my time in games got shorter and shorter. Eventually I found myself joining guilds and not really participating like I felt guild members should. I was pretty much a solo player doing my own thing. Sure I would participate in guild chat or on vent, but because of my time constraints, I was always well behind the rest of the guild in levels. I felt like a number on the roster more than a contributor. I stopped joining guilds for the most part and find I have fun in my own way at my own time. The only thing missing would be raidng I guess, but I do not have the ability to commit to the time it takes to do a raid anyway.
The real draw for guilds isnt so much what they can provide in game - that is a benefit. The draw to join a guild is the social aspect. That is what made EQ1 so much fun at the time. It wasnt for camping the Ragefire spawn for 32 hours that is for damn sure. But the thrill of seeing your guild come alive at 5am when Ragefire finally did pop... THAT is what guilds do for people.
If I had that kind of time today, I would be in a guild. However, I am content and do indeed have fun for long periods of time without joining for the sake of having a cool tag over my head.
If you don't mind, I'd probably rephrase your question to:
'Can a, 'good', guild make you continue playing when otherwise you might be done with a MMO?'
To that I'd definately say yes. I sincerley doubt I would have stayed playing EQ, COH, or WOW, if the guilds if I joined didn't have people I genuinely enjoyed spending time with. Then again it can backfire, I spent so much time with these people it put my marriage in jeopardy :P
Saying that I only speak to one of those people, semiregularly, now, and there was a ton of drama when I look back at it. Maybe it's an age thing but I rarely invest myself in guilds now. There could be many reasons for that, but ultimately I think the social dynamic has changed and you simply don't need others like you used to in an MMO.
What I'm curious about is have others been able to play these games for longer periods of time 3 months+ with no guild at all?
I haven't bothered with guilds for over 10 years and definitely don't miss them.
but do you play with friends on a regular bases or have a core list of people you have added to your friends list that help you out? or do you constantly wander and never really keep up with any of the same people running PUGs all the time for everything?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
What I'm curious about is have others been able to play these games for longer periods of time 3 months+ with no guild at all?
I haven't bothered with guilds for over 10 years and definitely don't miss them.
but do you play with friends on a regular bases or have a core list of people you have added to your friends list that help you out? or do you constantly wander and never really keep up with any of the same people running PUGs all the time for everything?
There's a couple of RL friends and family that I sometimes hang out with, if we happen to be playing the same MMO. More often than not, though, I am voice chatting to them as we play our various MMOs or (solo) computer games. I don't bother with a friends list because I never PUG (too many whiners and cretins). There isn't an MMO out there where you actually need anyone to help out with quests, so why drag dead weight around with me.
To those that think I am anti-social, I'm far from it - I just find voice-chat with real-life friends and family far more interesting and fluid than typing to total strangers in a chat box whilst crafting/questing/exploring. Just because I'm in a game with strangers doesn't mean I have any more interest in them than I would with the many hundreds of people in, say, a shopping centre I am walking around in. Mere proximity does not mean anything.
but the thing is you don't NEED to raid or PVP or anything with a good guild sometimes it's great to just be in one for the conversations. I have been in several guilds in games that were raid centric yet I almost never did raids. I stayed with them because everytime I was online we had some great talks in guild chat. They also would help me out anytime I couldn't complete certain quests or needed some help in a dungeon as the PUG was getting wiped over and over.. so you don't need to be in a hard core scheduled guild but just a bunch of cool people can really change your view on a game and how enjoyable you find it.
I agree to some degree, I've been in guilds solely because I knew some people who belonged and hanging out in guild chat while out playing was fun. I probably never engaged in any guild activities, I don't raid, I don't PvP, but so long as there are decent people worth talking to, it was fun. Of course, I could have done exactly what I ended up doing a lot of times anyhow, just grabbing a friend, finding a quiet place and sitting around talking for a couple of hours.
Originally posted by defector1968 almost in all of my MMOs i lvl cap without a guild, i seek one after lvl cap
depends on the game but many i do that or i will play and just happen to group with some nice people and end up joining their guild.....
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
My "guild" has advanced into a private facebook group of about 20 people who chat about what they are playing and why.
We are currently chatting about getting our DarkfallUW guild together, while many of us still play either GW2 / Lotro or DF together.
What I expect will happen is we will start playing DFUW and we will end up with a couple more ppl added to this facebook group over time out of whatever happens with the DFUW guild. DF is one of those games that creates a strong "us against them" feel which makes for a strong ingame guild.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76) Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
"If you are playing a game because of people there and not the game itself-you are doing it wrong! No actually you aren't! You are making the most out of piss poor n boring game(loads n loads of those in recent years)!"
How come I can play LoL/HoN in Solo-q and have fun(now imagine that-a first class Heresy!), but I can not play MMOs solo/in PUGs? Simple. They are not as fun as MOBAs are...
Those are my thoughts(if the game REQUIRES company to be actually FUN{non solo games excluded}, it is a fail game{imho}).
i wouldn't say my point was you NEED a guild to have fun but having a good guild can really amp up a games enjoyment overall.. we are playing MMO's here and to me to ignore such a big part of the MMO aspect is like playing only half the game or not playing it to it's true potential.. obviously just my opinion but if I just wanted to solo and play alone all the time I'd just stick with srpgs as they usually do the story aspects better anyway.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
But in good MMOs that have a social core/atsmophere, it's very easy to make a network of friends without a guild, and they keep you playing. Also, having a non elitist tiered raiding system helps so you can just jump in on any raid.
I use to join a guild, but with my new work schedule I hardly play at all.
If your not planning, or able to find time to raid, or pvp, you don't really need a guild any more.
besides instances, and raids, all mmo's play as single player games now days. The lfg dungeon finders let people pop in and out as a group with almost 0 conversations besides a quick strat rundown to burn thru it as fast as possible. You don't enjoy grouping up and meeting people anymore, you group up so it's faster and because it's required to run the instance. it's no longer a game, it's like a job. Sure you have your friends you hang out with sometimes, but more often your with people you wouldn't hangout with but have to until the jobs complete.
It's just how mmo's feel to me now. I guess I'm burned out.
Everything you just said is entirely true. Its sad to have seen the degradation of the mmo genre to what it is today. WHile I agree it may be burnout I also think that games have lost all social aspects in return for a quick satisfaction and achievement gameplay style
I use to join a guild, but with my new work schedule I hardly play at all.
If your not planning, or able to find time to raid, or pvp, you don't really need a guild any more.
besides instances, and raids, all mmo's play as single player games now days. The lfg dungeon finders let people pop in and out as a group with almost 0 conversations besides a quick strat rundown to burn thru it as fast as possible. You don't enjoy grouping up and meeting people anymore, you group up so it's faster and because it's required to run the instance. it's no longer a game, it's like a job. Sure you have your friends you hang out with sometimes, but more often your with people you wouldn't hangout with but have to until the jobs complete.
It's just how mmo's feel to me now. I guess I'm burned out.
Everything you just said is entirely true. Its sad to have seen the degradation of the mmo genre to what it is today. WHile I agree it may be burnout I also think that games have lost all social aspects in return for a quick satisfaction and achievement gameplay style
It's not burnout, the style and purpose of MMOs has entirely shifted over the last 9 years. The sliding began with WoW.
Shrug, I have difficulty going prolonged periods without friendly contact of some sort. Sometimes that's a guild, it's often reglar partner(s), sometimes one hapless friend I drug in with me.
So yes, I get your POV, too much soloing is bad for me, too.
But I learned that about myself clear back before 2000. One of the first things I look for, a good guild.
Makes all games more likely to be long-term interesting.
Of course ymwv, all humans have always had different levels of sociability.. Why would humans-in-games be any different?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Star Wars Galaxies was great because I didn't need a guild to be a part of something and roleplay. Then that all changed after WoW-style gameplay got entrenched.
I'm not a "joiner" by nature. Yet, even still, I found that this was no barrier to a great experience playing with other characters. A lot of this changed as the games started to mutate into "team sports" and the professionalized guilds wanted to make the games more "guild centric." That's great for the "joiners" among us, but not the folks that like to be themselves and go their own way.
__________________________ "Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it." --Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints." --Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls." --Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
With the newer style MMO's Ive played a mixed bag,joined guilds here and there,others I have not..
in GW2 I have not, a guild is just simply not needed.I found being in a guild in Rift to be more rewarding.
The most rewarding and tight knit guilds Ive been in were the MMO's of early days.
guess it depends what your goals are in said games.. in Rift as it's a raid centric game you would be more hard pressed to enjoy this aspect without a guild.. for GW2 if you are getting into WvW not having a guild greatly hinders the enjoyment of the whole experience imho
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
The most fun I've had in any game I ever played was after finding a great group of people to play with. It enhances everything, even just questing alone. Right now I'm guildless in GW2 and I'm enjoying it but no where as much fun as it would be with a good guild.
Originally posted by Sheepduck The most fun I've had in any game I ever played was after finding a great group of people to play with. It enhances everything, even just questing alone. Right now I'm guildless in GW2 and I'm enjoying it but no where as much fun as it would be with a good guild.
agreed while yes it's true guilds are not "needed" in most MMOs out today the point is it increases enjoyment in everything by a large amount imho... like said above everything from basic questing to dungeons to crafting to PVP just has always been in my experience a LOT more enjoyable in a good guild
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Ya, for me it's just friends though. Not neccassirly a guild, could just be a group of players I group with occassionaly for certian specific activities, or RL friends on skype, or what have you. Personally can't stand large guilds with me not knowing most of the players when I look at the roster page. People actually being in multiple guilds, or quiet, never speaking in guild chat, or always on alts or different servers just turn me off.
*On the con side to this, if all my RL friends quit an RPG, as well as most others I've met in-game, it usually kills it for me to. Most recent Ex: GW2
It's only in the last few years that I've played MMO's mostly solo.
Having played online multiplayer games since 1998 I quickly realised that I didn't just want to be part of a team but mould it into something that could be better, more enjoyable. This wasn't some ego trip thing but reaction against the highly disorganised and often racist/homophobic clans that were kicking around back then. Anyway to cut a long story short having led several successful clans & guilds over the years (and a few non-starters ) I've taken a back seat from guild life as it is nigh impossible to join a guild and not want to see it run differently.
It can be quite difficult being a former leader sometimes, but you can still have fun soloing and teaming up from time to time in an MMO.
Originally posted by DSWBeef I think its true for almost all people that a mmo isnt fun w/o a guild. If all my friends played wow then it would be a blast regardless of the game.
Difference is, old MMOs had mechanics that encouraged you to meet and keep in game friends.
New MMOs have mechanics that encourage you never to socialize or play with others.
I'm starting to not believe in the myth of the 'good guild' anymore. I've played through so many games (and so many guilds) and have yet to find a single on to match the one good guild I've ever had, wayyyyy back in 2007 in WoW. In fact, I'd think it was strictly a WoW problem if I didn't run into the same problem in every single other MMO I've ever played, ever.
It's actually very depressing to just have such an incredibly bad streak of luck (if indeed that's what it is) with guilds when you really need one if you're going to even raid a normal mode and don't have the money to go serverhopping every time someone swears theirs is the active guild you're looking for. Last time I did that, the entire guild took off to a different game 3 weeks later.
Comments
to be honest don't remember been over a decade since i played EQ1:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Because of that EQ faction system - to this day - I still worry about who I am pissing off if I attack anything. =P
As to the original question, I used to guild up when I joined games. I cut my teeth in EQ and you pretty much had to be in a guild. As the years progressed and my real life became more real and less fantasy, my time in games got shorter and shorter. Eventually I found myself joining guilds and not really participating like I felt guild members should. I was pretty much a solo player doing my own thing. Sure I would participate in guild chat or on vent, but because of my time constraints, I was always well behind the rest of the guild in levels. I felt like a number on the roster more than a contributor. I stopped joining guilds for the most part and find I have fun in my own way at my own time. The only thing missing would be raidng I guess, but I do not have the ability to commit to the time it takes to do a raid anyway.
The real draw for guilds isnt so much what they can provide in game - that is a benefit. The draw to join a guild is the social aspect. That is what made EQ1 so much fun at the time. It wasnt for camping the Ragefire spawn for 32 hours that is for damn sure. But the thrill of seeing your guild come alive at 5am when Ragefire finally did pop... THAT is what guilds do for people.
If I had that kind of time today, I would be in a guild. However, I am content and do indeed have fun for long periods of time without joining for the sake of having a cool tag over my head.
If you don't mind, I'd probably rephrase your question to:
'Can a, 'good', guild make you continue playing when otherwise you might be done with a MMO?'
To that I'd definately say yes. I sincerley doubt I would have stayed playing EQ, COH, or WOW, if the guilds if I joined didn't have people I genuinely enjoyed spending time with. Then again it can backfire, I spent so much time with these people it put my marriage in jeopardy :P
Saying that I only speak to one of those people, semiregularly, now, and there was a ton of drama when I look back at it. Maybe it's an age thing but I rarely invest myself in guilds now. There could be many reasons for that, but ultimately I think the social dynamic has changed and you simply don't need others like you used to in an MMO.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
I haven't bothered with guilds for over 10 years and definitely don't miss them.
but do you play with friends on a regular bases or have a core list of people you have added to your friends list that help you out? or do you constantly wander and never really keep up with any of the same people running PUGs all the time for everything?
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
There's a couple of RL friends and family that I sometimes hang out with, if we happen to be playing the same MMO. More often than not, though, I am voice chatting to them as we play our various MMOs or (solo) computer games. I don't bother with a friends list because I never PUG (too many whiners and cretins). There isn't an MMO out there where you actually need anyone to help out with quests, so why drag dead weight around with me.
To those that think I am anti-social, I'm far from it - I just find voice-chat with real-life friends and family far more interesting and fluid than typing to total strangers in a chat box whilst crafting/questing/exploring. Just because I'm in a game with strangers doesn't mean I have any more interest in them than I would with the many hundreds of people in, say, a shopping centre I am walking around in. Mere proximity does not mean anything.
I agree to some degree, I've been in guilds solely because I knew some people who belonged and hanging out in guild chat while out playing was fun. I probably never engaged in any guild activities, I don't raid, I don't PvP, but so long as there are decent people worth talking to, it was fun. Of course, I could have done exactly what I ended up doing a lot of times anyhow, just grabbing a friend, finding a quiet place and sitting around talking for a couple of hours.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None
depends on the game but many i do that or i will play and just happen to group with some nice people and end up joining their guild.....
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
My "guild" has advanced into a private facebook group of about 20 people who chat about what they are playing and why.
We are currently chatting about getting our DarkfallUW guild together, while many of us still play either GW2 / Lotro or DF together.
What I expect will happen is we will start playing DFUW and we will end up with a couple more ppl added to this facebook group over time out of whatever happens with the DFUW guild. DF is one of those games that creates a strong "us against them" feel which makes for a strong ingame guild.
Playing: Darkfall New Dawn (and planning to play Fallout 76)
Favourite games have included: UO, Lineage2, Darkfall, Lotro, Baldur's Gate, SSX, FF7 and yes the original Wizardry on an Apple IIe
i wouldn't say my point was you NEED a guild to have fun but having a good guild can really amp up a games enjoyment overall.. we are playing MMO's here and to me to ignore such a big part of the MMO aspect is like playing only half the game or not playing it to it's true potential.. obviously just my opinion but if I just wanted to solo and play alone all the time I'd just stick with srpgs as they usually do the story aspects better anyway.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Not in WoW clones.
But in good MMOs that have a social core/atsmophere, it's very easy to make a network of friends without a guild, and they keep you playing. Also, having a non elitist tiered raiding system helps so you can just jump in on any raid.
Everything you just said is entirely true. Its sad to have seen the degradation of the mmo genre to what it is today. WHile I agree it may be burnout I also think that games have lost all social aspects in return for a quick satisfaction and achievement gameplay style
It's not burnout, the style and purpose of MMOs has entirely shifted over the last 9 years. The sliding began with WoW.
Shrug, I have difficulty going prolonged periods without friendly contact of some sort. Sometimes that's a guild, it's often reglar partner(s), sometimes one hapless friend I drug in with me.
So yes, I get your POV, too much soloing is bad for me, too.
But I learned that about myself clear back before 2000. One of the first things I look for, a good guild.
Makes all games more likely to be long-term interesting.
Of course ymwv, all humans have always had different levels of sociability.. Why would humans-in-games be any different?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Star Wars Galaxies was great because I didn't need a guild to be a part of something and roleplay. Then that all changed after WoW-style gameplay got entrenched.
I'm not a "joiner" by nature. Yet, even still, I found that this was no barrier to a great experience playing with other characters. A lot of this changed as the games started to mutate into "team sports" and the professionalized guilds wanted to make the games more "guild centric." That's great for the "joiners" among us, but not the folks that like to be themselves and go their own way.
__________________________
"Its sad when people use religion to feel superior, its even worse to see people using a video game to do it."
--Arcken
"...when it comes to pimping EVE I have little restraints."
--Hellmar, CEO of CCP.
"It's like they took a gun, put it to their nugget sack and pulled the trigger over and over again, each time telling us how great it was that they were shooting themselves in the balls."
--Exar_Kun on SWG's NGE
Playing: FFXIV, DnL, and World of Warships
Waiting on: Ashes of Creation
With the newer style MMO's, Ive played a mixed bag.Joined guilds here and there,others I have not..
in GW2 I have not, a guild is just simply not needed.I found being in a guild in Rift to be more rewarding.
The most rewarding and tight knit guilds Ive been in were the MMO's of early days.
guess it depends what your goals are in said games.. in Rift as it's a raid centric game you would be more hard pressed to enjoy this aspect without a guild.. for GW2 if you are getting into WvW not having a guild greatly hinders the enjoyment of the whole experience imho
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
agreed while yes it's true guilds are not "needed" in most MMOs out today the point is it increases enjoyment in everything by a large amount imho... like said above everything from basic questing to dungeons to crafting to PVP just has always been in my experience a LOT more enjoyable in a good guild
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Ya, for me it's just friends though. Not neccassirly a guild, could just be a group of players I group with occassionaly for certian specific activities, or RL friends on skype, or what have you. Personally can't stand large guilds with me not knowing most of the players when I look at the roster page. People actually being in multiple guilds, or quiet, never speaking in guild chat, or always on alts or different servers just turn me off.
*On the con side to this, if all my RL friends quit an RPG, as well as most others I've met in-game, it usually kills it for me to. Most recent Ex: GW2
It's only in the last few years that I've played MMO's mostly solo.
Having played online multiplayer games since 1998 I quickly realised that I didn't just want to be part of a team but mould it into something that could be better, more enjoyable. This wasn't some ego trip thing but reaction against the highly disorganised and often racist/homophobic clans that were kicking around back then. Anyway to cut a long story short having led several successful clans & guilds over the years (and a few non-starters
) I've taken a back seat from guild life as it is nigh impossible to join a guild and not want to see it run differently.
It can be quite difficult being a former leader sometimes, but you can still have fun soloing and teaming up from time to time in an MMO.
Difference is, old MMOs had mechanics that encouraged you to meet and keep in game friends.
New MMOs have mechanics that encourage you never to socialize or play with others.
I'm starting to not believe in the myth of the 'good guild' anymore. I've played through so many games (and so many guilds) and have yet to find a single on to match the one good guild I've ever had, wayyyyy back in 2007 in WoW. In fact, I'd think it was strictly a WoW problem if I didn't run into the same problem in every single other MMO I've ever played, ever.
It's actually very depressing to just have such an incredibly bad streak of luck (if indeed that's what it is) with guilds when you really need one if you're going to even raid a normal mode and don't have the money to go serverhopping every time someone swears theirs is the active guild you're looking for. Last time I did that, the entire guild took off to a different game 3 weeks later.