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So will DF:UW be a real deal Sandbox this time around, or a open endgame themepark like the first ga

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  • DarthRaidenDarthRaiden gdfgfPosts: 4,333Member
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by DarthRaiden

    I support indy games that build on sandbox playstyles. Darkfall has been a very good attempt at first, the foundation was there, but at some point i guess they droped the ball on sandbox and just create a big arena for full loot PvP.  I assure you the initial playerbase was more divers and now i am with those who supported it till all the info shows they don't developü towards sandbox anymore.

    I can't help if you miss the lack of a sandbox vision in that quote, i try to be me understandable by highlighting their arguments of wha they think they added to the game to make it "more sandboxy". Sieging, conquest system, mercenaries in sieges  (Siege, conquest and again Sieges , got their direction ?)  is their answer to sandbox . Because additions to PvP and combat are nice they still remain additions to one playstyle. I would have loved to hear additions like local and divers ressources, local banks and additions to crafting  to allow playstyles like trader to let local playcities concur about being the best market hub in the neighberhood, to make caravans and transport goods with ships a possible gameplay feature. This would also allow for real piracy playstyle.

    Yup, lets cut on one of the best apsects of Darkfall, the big seamless world , instead of expanding on it and make it more important. Yup sounds like the gave up on sandbox finally and thats why my support is very reduced, because i paid them for all the 3 past years to develop the game in the sandbox  direction and not for it being the big PvP arena, with the only motivation to do PvP being bragging rights, thats just  too shallow IMO.

    Hope my reasoning is understandable.

     

     

    This from their F.A.Q. on the Darkfall (original) site:

     

    "What kind of advanced features are you talking about?
     

    Darkfall has most of the features one would associate with fantasy based MMORPGs, but also contains elements found in action and real-time strategy games. In Darkfall it's the players and their actions that shape the world. We provide you with the platform and the tools to engage in grand activities such as kingdom building, politics, strategy, diplomacy, combat, warfare, conquest, and racial wars. We also offer you the freedom and the option to not get involved in any of that if you don't want to, and to follow a path of your own."

    This from the main page, sort of a feature list of sorts:

     

    • Role-playing, strategy, and shooter action in a MMOG
    • The largest handcrafted online world of its kind.
    • Over 10 thousand concurrent players per game world.
    • The largest MMORPG battles ever - involving thousands.
    • Ultimate PvP action, the #1 choice of top players and clans.
    • Seamless, zoneless, non-instanced world. No invisible walls.
    • No safe zones. Full loot. PvP everywhere with accountability.
    • No more leveling. Improve the skills you use.
    • Fight on mounts, ships, man cannons and vehicles.
    • Siege and conquer cities, build and protect your own.
    • Craft any item in the world and put your name on it.
     
    This info has been there since very very early on. The focus is and always has been on the PvP & political aspect of the game, not the things you re complaining about them not focusing on. They never pretended to be something else. Its funny how some of you have this idea that if a game does not have every sandbox feature that other sandbox games had, or every single idea you can think of that would make it "more sandboxy" it suddenly stops becoming a sandbox.

    You right this from the mainpage. But there is a FAQ and several official statements (like in this Q&A i quoted for example) where THEY claim how much of a wonderfull sandbox Darkfall is.

    To give you a better example what i mean our clan started as a ANTI griefer clan and wanted to especially defend newer players and fight off PK's. One would think and whats the problem ? I can assure you it was nearly impossible to fullfill these role for 2,5 years !  What a sandbox is this where you can't play even the combat and PvP the way you like it and police the territory around the racial cities ?
     Instead you had to play it THEIR predesigned way, all you could try to setup was try to establsih a place around a playercity in which newbies rather start their experience and get in the way of regular siege warfare. You see there is again the big PvP arena of Darkfall and not "play the game like you want it to play".

    Beside that  tasos uses to say in life shows how you can do "so many things beside PvP" and  "solve problems without violance" and what reality proves is there is nothing else viable in game (as intendependent role and playstyle) beside PvP and arena like combat.

     

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  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Hancakes

     

    Funny how those clamoring about "real sandbox" are the ones asking for game mechanics to protect them. 


     

    That is what makes it a sandbox. There is no freedom without effective law system.

    So by your definition DF 1 is a sandbox because it has a " law system"??? ( ie alignment )

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Flute
    It won't be a true sandbox, sorry.

    No need to apologise, just explain why you think as such.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Hancakes

     

    Funny how those clamoring about "real sandbox" are the ones asking for game mechanics to protect them. 


     

    That is what makes it a sandbox. There is no freedom without effective law system.

    Cool so any game without FFA pvp is a sandbox then. Fantastic.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • CecropiaCecropia Posts: 3,472Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Hancakes

     

    Funny how those clamoring about "real sandbox" are the ones asking for game mechanics to protect them. 


     

    That is what makes it a sandbox. There is no freedom without effective law system.

    Cool so any game without FFA pvp is a sandbox then. Fantastic.

    Is this the thread that keeps on giving, or what?

    "Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Cecropia
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Hancakes

     

     


     

     

     

    Is this the thread that keeps on giving, or what?

    It is fairly hilarious, I must agree.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • SiveriaSiveria Saint John, New BrunswickPosts: 1,200Member Uncommon
    It'll be a piece of shit greifest of high levels picking on lowbies who can't defend themselves just like any open world pvp game is, this one is even worse if it allows full looting because it actually rewards them for being assholes. Imo all mmo's should use the daoc system where there is one big zone for pvp, and the rest is pve, thsi way it caters to both crouds, now I like pvp, but never been a fan of open world pvp games, and defently not a fan of any sort of pvp looting where they lose their gear (Though battlestar galatica online have players drop loot like npc's on death just more of it). Never been a fan due to the horrible community full of griefers that prey on lowbies and such that infest these types of games.

    Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:

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    or

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    Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member

    It will be big open world fpp deathmatch like 'normal DFO'. 

    This is same game, just with reworked class & some combat mechanics and some new content.

    No idaa where anyone see some fundamental changes. It is big expansion on basic DFO coupled with wipe. 

    Not whole new game made from scratch.

  • AerowynAerowyn BUZZARDS BAY, MAPosts: 7,928Member
    Originally posted by Siveria
    It'll be a piece of shit greifest of high levels picking on lowbies who can't defend themselves just like any open world pvp game is, this one is even worse if it allows full looting because it actually rewards them for being assholes. Imo all mmo's should use the daoc system where there is one big zone for pvp, and the rest is pve, thsi way it caters to both crouds, now I like pvp, but never been a fan of open world pvp games, and defently not a fan of any sort of pvp looting where they lose their gear (Though battlestar galatica online have players drop loot like npc's on death just more of it). Never been a fan due to the horrible community full of griefers that prey on lowbies and such that infest these types of games.

    i actually don't mind full loot or partial loot pvp but don't like when it's just a FFA since it does end up being way to many gankers.... i actually liked LIneage 2's original system http://l2vault.ign.com/View.php?view=FAQ.Detail&id=31

    this caused only pkers to actually have a chance in loosing items was a nice balance imho.. you also felt like an outlaw being flagged red as npcs would attack you as well. The karma burn off was hell though

    I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by HancakesSo by your definition DF 1 is a sandbox because it has a " law system"??? ( ie alignment )

    Alignment isn't a law system, it is a flagging mechanics.

  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Hancakes

     

    So by your definition DF 1 is a sandbox because it has a " law system"??? ( ie alignment )


     

    Alignment isn't a law system, it is a flagging mechanics.

    And once again you have no idea what you're talking about.  So what are the ramifications of turning red in DF?image  You turn red by "breaking the law" , being red comes with consequences.  How is that not a " law system" ?

  • Params7Params7 Runnemede, NJPosts: 204Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Hancakes

     

    Funny how those clamoring about "real sandbox" are the ones asking for game mechanics to protect them. 


     

    That is what makes it a sandbox. There is no freedom without effective law system.


    This statement is freakin' gold, lol.

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by HancakesHow is that not a " law system" ?

    Difference between law and flag is that law applies to everyone all the time, flagging applies to someone only and in particular case.


    Then again, there is no retribution, you turn red but that is about all...


  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Hancakes

     

    How is that not a " law system" ?


     

    Difference between law and flag is that law applies to everyone all the time, flagging applies to someone only and in particular case.


    Then again, there is no retribution, you turn red but that is about all...

     

    lol wut?

     

    The "law" applies to everyone in the game, you get "flagged" for breaking the "law". 

     

    This thread is comedy gold.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • MurphyleoMurphyleo Aliquippa, PAPosts: 11Member

    I cant take anymore , I have to weigh in. Forgive my typing but im not a secretary.

    Darkfall was to me the most unique game i have ever experienced , i have been playing mmorpg's for a while now and have played many , to this date i dont understand the terms ppl toss aroudn like sandbox or theme park , if you like it you like it if not not , but if you didnt like the game because you failed to do all the things the game made available and just ran around fighting , dont come on here and insult the game and make statements about what gameplay was like.

    I found that i could do whatever i wanted in DF , from pvp to pve to crafting to  harvesting to exploring  to being a mercenary , i cant even list it all .i never felt boxed in in my playstyle like you do in other games (speaking of GW2, i wasted 60 + bucks on it and played it for a week i was done ) the game gave you too many options to list and it gave you the excitement of being ganked , i love a game where i go out into the world and the random can happen , from being ganked by players to being ganked by mobs that move and think like no other mobs in a game before , i loved having to aim my arrows and for longer shots having to arch my shots and lead the target , i loved having the ability to not just be targetted and hit but to be able to avoid hits and interpose my shield in combat ....not just have it hanging there like a decoration , AV did break some promises that ticked all of us off, they didnt add things they said they would , and they took to long sometimes for updates , but they jumped into a market where open world pvp with real risks was dead (dont mention EVE cause i dont play luke skywalker games ) and they brought us a game that got them nothing but ire from the typical WoW type player who doesnt want to be ganked , when i think of the term sandbox thats what i think it means by definition , i could be wrong but going your own way and being a trailblazer in an industry and putting yourself out there with a target on taking the hits from ppl who you already know are going to be against you to deliver something REAL to the faction of ppl who have been suppressed and squashed in the mmorpg community is admirable , and i cant wait for DF : UW

    Go AV dont ever give up you are the only thign in this genre thats still keeping hope alive for us realworld gamers

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Hancakes

    Funny how those clamoring about "real sandbox" are the ones asking for game mechanics to protect them. 

     

    That is what makes it a sandbox. There is no freedom without effective a law system.

    I disagree, in a true sandbox the players should police the world, not NPC's making "safe" zones.

    A sandbox should be just that, your given a world to explorre, the tools to explore with and the rest is up to you.

    This is why games like Minecraft can be considered sandbox games and why almost all of so-called "sandbox" mmorpg's are not.

    Most "sandbox" mmo's are pseudo-sandbox games, the developers don't trust the players to regulate the game so they intervene through design and physical restrictions beyond the natural physics of the game world and their inherant limitations(gravity for example) and the second this happens, it ceases to be a sandbox game.

    Games like SWG and EvE were/are brilliant games, but not true sandbox games, close approximations, but still with restrictions placed on the playerbase outside of the natural physical laws of the game. DF was not a sandbox either and DF:UW won't be.

    using your logic the actual real world isnt a sandbox.  unless you live in an anarcho-capitalist or other such community.

     

    the police NPC in a sandbox game ADD to the freedom players have in the game not detract from it.  because it gives players the freedom to go about their lives with some (not total) degree of safety.  just like the real world police do.

     

    if your argument is that, if your desire is to murder everyone, then you arent being given your freedom, i would ask you how much freedom is given to homicidal people in the "real world".  if you prefer, ask yourself honestly whether more people want to live in relative peace in their game, or whether more people want to feel like they're going to logon and get teabagged in the matter of 5 seconds.  compare the numbers and see which one gives more people more freedom to play the game their way.

     

    also, simply making 3 ruleset servers would solve this, one with the original DF rules, one with "evelike" rules (my server woot) and one 'more carebear' server.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

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  • HancakesHancakes flint, MIPosts: 1,045Member
    Originally posted by itchmon
    Originally posted by Zinzan
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Hancakes

    Funny how those clamoring about "real sandbox" are the ones asking for game mechanics to protect them. 

     

    That is what makes it a sandbox. There is no freedom without effective a law system.

    I disagree, in a true sandbox the players should police the world, not NPC's making "safe" zones.

    A sandbox should be just that, your given a world to explorre, the tools to explore with and the rest is up to you.

    This is why games like Minecraft can be considered sandbox games and why almost all of so-called "sandbox" mmorpg's are not.

    Most "sandbox" mmo's are pseudo-sandbox games, the developers don't trust the players to regulate the game so they intervene through design and physical restrictions beyond the natural physics of the game world and their inherant limitations(gravity for example) and the second this happens, it ceases to be a sandbox game.

    Games like SWG and EvE were/are brilliant games, but not true sandbox games, close approximations, but still with restrictions placed on the playerbase outside of the natural physical laws of the game. DF was not a sandbox either and DF:UW won't be.

     

    also, simply making 3 ruleset servers would solve this, one with the original DF rules, one with "evelike" rules (my server woot) and one 'more carebear' server.

    There's nothing to solve....

    Darkfall is what it is, you like it or you don't .  

    I really don't care what other peoples fastasy version is or thier thoughts on Darkfalls "sandboxiness".

  • GdemamiGdemami Beau VallonPosts: 7,860Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by HancakesDarkfall is what it is, you like it or you don't .  

    I do not think that is a point here, everyone is fine with that but let's do not pretend that the game is something else than it is.

    Darkfall is open world FFA PVP game and that's it. No more, no less.

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by itchmon

    using your logic the actual real world isnt a sandbox.  unless you live in an anarcho-capitalist or other such community.

     

    the police NPC in a sandbox game ADD to the freedom players have in the game not detract from it.  because it gives players the freedom to go about their lives with some (not total) degree of safety.  just like the real world police do.

     

    if your argument is that, if your desire is to murder everyone, then you arent being given your freedom, i would ask you how much freedom is given to homicidal people in the "real world".  if you prefer, ask yourself honestly whether more people want to live in relative peace in their game, or whether more people want to feel like they're going to logon and get teabagged in the matter of 5 seconds.  compare the numbers and see which one gives more people more freedom to play the game their way.

     

    also, simply making 3 ruleset servers would solve this, one with the original DF rules, one with "evelike" rules (my server woot) and one 'more carebear' server.

    While I agree that player policing is a naïve notion and that an EVE-like system would be ideal in DF, separate ruleset servers is a horrible idea. It separates the community, which is a really bad thing in a sandbox - a game like this needs different playstyles existing side by side, not spread out on different servers.

    That's what makes EVE so great; you've got mission runners, miners, traders, explorers, gankers, scammers, pirates, mercenaries, haulers, empire builders, and everyone else playing together. There are no 100% safe areas, but certain places are at least safe enough to host the carebear crowd, which means the world is alive with many different kinds of activities. It also means the game has a very dynamic risk vs reward structure, and that is a crucial thing for a sandbox.

    With a separate PVE server, all that disappears. On the other hand, a game in which everyone has to be a hardcore PvPer to survive will forever have a dwindling population. Its world will feel stale and deserted, because the sheep all leave and the wolves are left to themselves. Those who believe player policing will somehow make up for NPC police are just deluding themselves; it did not work in DF1 and it did not work in MO (which has a similar security system).

    Why? Because playing a good guy is a hassle in a game that promotes PKing. Playing a guard is mind-numbingly boring in ANY game (just imagine patrolling some goblin spawn for hours hoping for some PKs to show up). Sure, some guys will always find joy in chasing a red away once in a while, but generally player policing will never work in the same way as CONCORD does, it's a simple fact.

    Still, DFUW will probably never have an EVE-like system. AV has a different vision and while I surely will enjoy their game for what it is, I will forever mourn what it could have been.

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Gdemami

     


    Originally posted by Hancakes

     

    Darkfall is what it is, you like it or you don't .  


     

    I do not think that is a point here, everyone is fine with that but let's do not pretend that the game is something else than it is.

    Darkfall is open world FFA PVP game and that's it. No more, no less.

     

     

    The Game World -

    A vast, seemless, open world.

    A world in which the player has a direct interaction with and persistent impact upon the game world.

    Virtually zero "invisible" walls.

    Non instanced housing/player cities.

    Territory/political control over the main game world.

     

    The Economy/Crafting -

    Decentralized economy, crafting/player driven and not epic/raid/gear treadmill based.

    Crafting is fundamentally important to all stages of the game and the economy.

    Player vendors/"shops".

    Decay mechanism.

    Looting feature adds into economy.

     

    Character Progression-

    Not limited to permanent classes, a skill based system.

    Can do anything on one character.

    Player meta roles. Want to be a highway robber? You can be.

    Want to be a bodyguard? You can be.

    Want to be someone who spends his entire day crafting whilst you make contacts to fetch you resources? You can be.

     

    PVE -

    Extremely limited emphasis placed on quests/linear chains.

    Virtually zero pathed guidance outside of starter towns.

    No boxed off "endgame" raids.

     

    PVP -

    Open FFA.

    Siege warfare within the game world, not on some separate map.

    PvP which has a lasting impact upon the world.

    PvP which links into the economy and crafting.

    PvP which is not boxed off "endgame" content separate from the game world.

    A law system to discourage all out murdering and a protection system for noobs, an NPC tower "policing" system.

     

    Player Interactions -

    Virtually zero artificial limits placed upon player interactions in mmorpg terms.

    Players/clans can socially form together and have a direct and persistent impact upon the game world.

     

    The game is a non linear, non guided, open, sandbox in which players can directly interact with and change the game world through placing houses or forming clans and dominating an area. There is no sectioned off endgame and whilst the game is heavily pvp centric, players can craft and pve to their hearts content should they wish, in the knowledge that the pvp system they are avoiding is still impacting upon the game world and the economy they are involved in.

     

    The game is clearly a sandbox, does it have the amount of sand in it other titles have had? No, it doesn't have the content of say a UO. But then that just makes it a more sparse sandbox and one which is not going to appeal as much to some people who don't have some eye on PVP. Such is life.

     

    But to think that makes it not a sandbox, to think it makes it a themepark, to think that makes it the equivalent of LOTRO, to think that makes it a pvp arena game. In short, to think half the crap that has been put forward by the "oh it's not a sandbox" crowd so far in this thread, well that is really a case of not thinking at all.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • BiskopBiskop AvalonPosts: 709Member
    Originally posted by bunnyhopper

     

     

    The Game World -

    A vast, seemless, open world.

    A world in which the player has a direct interaction with and persistent impact upon the game world.

    Virtually zero "invisible" walls.

    Non instanced housing/player cities.

    Territory/political control over the main game world.

     

    The Economy/Crafting -

    Decentralized economy, crafting/player driven and not epic/raid/gear treadmill based.

    Crafting is fundamentally important to all stages of the game and the economy.

    Player vendors/"shops".

    Decay mechanism.

    Looting feature adds into economy.

     

    Character Progression-

    Not limited to permanent classes, a skill based system.

    Can do anything on one character.

    Player meta roles. Want to be a highway robber? You can be.

    Want to be a bodyguard? You can be.

    Want to be someone who spends his entire day crafting whilst you make contacts to fetch you resources? You can be.

     

    PVE -

    Extremely limited emphasis placed on quests/linear chains.

    Virtually zero pathed guidance outside of starter towns.

    No boxed off "endgame" raids.

     

    PVP -

    Open FFA.

    Siege warfare within the game world, not on some separate map.

    PvP which has a lasting impact upon the world.

    PvP which links into the economy and crafting.

    PvP which is not boxed off "endgame" content separate from the game world.

    A law system to discourage all out murdering and a protection system for noobs, an NPC tower "policing" system.

     

    Player Interactions -

    Virtually zero artificial limits placed upon player interactions in mmorpg terms.

    Players/clans can socially form together and have a direct and persistent impact upon the game world.

     

    The game is a non linear, non guided, open, sandbox in which players can directly interact with and change the game world through placing houses or forming clans and dominating an area. There is no sectioned off endgame and whilst the game is heavily pvp centric, players can craft and pve to their hearts content should they wish, in the knowledge that the pvp system they are avoiding is still impacting upon the game world and the economy they are involved in.

     

    The game is clearly a sandbox, does it have the amount of sand in it other titles have had? No, it doesn't have the content of say a UO. But then that just makes it a more sparse sandbox and one which is not going to appeal as much to some people who don't have some eye on PVP. Such is life.

     

    But to think that makes it not a sandbox, to think it makes it a themepark, to think that makes it the equivalent of LOTRO, to think that makes it a pvp arena game. In short, to think half the crap that has been put forward by the "oh it's not a sandbox" crowd so far in this thread, well that is really a case of not thinking at all.

    Amen.

     

    [mod edit]

  • MaejohlMaejohl LondonPosts: 110Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Murphyleo

    I  cant wait for DF : UW

    Go AV dont ever give up you are the only thign in this genre thats still keeping hope alive for us realworld gamers

     

    A whole load of good stuff in your post - spot on.

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  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,690Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Siveria
    It'll be a piece of shit greifest of high levels picking on lowbies who can't defend themselves just like any open world pvp game is, this one is even worse if it allows full looting because it actually rewards them for being assholes. Imo all mmo's should use the daoc system where there is one big zone for pvp, and the rest is pve, thsi way it caters to both crouds, now I like pvp, but never been a fan of open world pvp games, and defently not a fan of any sort of pvp looting where they lose their gear (Though battlestar galatica online have players drop loot like npc's on death just more of it). Never been a fan due to the horrible community full of griefers that prey on lowbies and such that infest these types of games.

    Sounds like youve never played any actual PvP games, let alone Darkfall itself. There are also anti-griefing / newbie protection clans & alliances who hunt down the griefers and go to war with them and provide holdings for newbies to live out of while being under the protection of vets. Not everyone who enjoys PvP does it to grief newbies. Had you ever actually played the game you would be aware of such things instead of just spouting nonsense.

    You really need to get over your fear of losing gear too. Gear is MEANT to be lost in these games. If you dont lose it in a fight, youre going to lose it when it breaks from use anyway. Everything you get is temporary. We're not talking about losing your "epic" raid gear that you farmed in safety for 3 months.

  • MMOExposedMMOExposed lalal land, DCPosts: 6,255Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hotjazz
    Originally posted by MMOExposed

    wait wait wait, do you want a Themepark or a Sandbox?

     Themepark concept was made, to address the many negative aspects of Sandbox MMO like UO.

    your argument seem to be the same as those themepark mmo designers, not of a sandbox.

    Yes, in your deranged world UO wasn`t a sandbox either.

     

    "Darkfall isn`t a sandbox, because I can`t fly a spaceship with my gay wookie char."  WTF?

     

    What you are looking for isn`t  a sandbox, it`s called a trollbox. A trollbox mmo never have and never will excist. Trollbox mmos only appear  in forums when trolls try to defend their shallow, boring and linear themepark games. Darkfall is a true sandbox and one of the very few out there. I want you to name ONE game that fits your weird vision of a sandbox, and If you can`t  I`ll just call you a pathetic, lying troll.

     

    Now please go back to your Lotr game and kill som NPC orcs .....Legolas....Haha

    Again, show me the sand in Darkfall1's sandbox. There isn't any. You don't empact the world beyond predesigned player cities. 

    If that's what you call a sandbox, than WoW is a sandbox as well, because of Halaa and the other PvP zones..... 

     

    image

  • itchmonitchmon west islip, NYPosts: 1,714Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Biskop
    Originally posted by itchmon

    using your logic the actual real world isnt a sandbox.  unless you live in an anarcho-capitalist or other such community.

     

    the police NPC in a sandbox game ADD to the freedom players have in the game not detract from it.  because it gives players the freedom to go about their lives with some (not total) degree of safety.  just like the real world police do.

     

    if your argument is that, if your desire is to murder everyone, then you arent being given your freedom, i would ask you how much freedom is given to homicidal people in the "real world".  if you prefer, ask yourself honestly whether more people want to live in relative peace in their game, or whether more people want to feel like they're going to logon and get teabagged in the matter of 5 seconds.  compare the numbers and see which one gives more people more freedom to play the game their way.

     

    also, simply making 3 ruleset servers would solve this, one with the original DF rules, one with "evelike" rules (my server woot) and one 'more carebear' server.

    While I agree that player policing is a naïve notion and that an EVE-like system would be ideal in DF, separate ruleset servers is a horrible idea. It separates the community, which is a really bad thing in a sandbox - a game like this needs different playstyles existing side by side, not spread out on different servers.

    That's what makes EVE so great; you've got mission runners, miners, traders, explorers, gankers, scammers, pirates, mercenaries, haulers, empire builders, and everyone else playing together. There are no 100% safe areas, but certain places are at least safe enough to host the carebear crowd, which means the world is alive with many different kinds of activities. It also means the game has a very dynamic risk vs reward structure, and that is a crucial thing for a sandbox.

    With a separate PVE server, all that disappears. On the other hand, a game in which everyone has to be a hardcore PvPer to survive will forever have a dwindling population. Its world will feel stale and deserted, because the sheep all leave and the wolves are left to themselves. Those who believe player policing will somehow make up for NPC police are just deluding themselves; it did not work in DF1 and it did not work in MO (which has a similar security system).

    Why? Because playing a good guy is a hassle in a game that promotes PKing. Playing a guard is mind-numbingly boring in ANY game (just imagine patrolling some goblin spawn for hours hoping for some PKs to show up). Sure, some guys will always find joy in chasing a red away once in a while, but generally player policing will never work in the same way as CONCORD does, it's a simple fact.

    Still, DFUW will probably never have an EVE-like system. AV has a different vision and while I surely will enjoy their game for what it is, I will forever mourn what it could have been.

    you make a great point.  i was just kinda throwing it out there because i think it would bring more revenue to AV.  which would mean more good stuff in the game which in turn MIGHT bring more people to the game.  snowball, etc etc.  but you are right, that we would have to balance this wit the separating  of the community.   perhaps though the presence of a "softer" server would eventually entice some of the players thewre to move over to the big-boy server?  kinda like how playing in eve university for a year made me that much more keen to go to 0.0 in eve.

    it's nice to see that for someone else besides me, a DF game with eve-like rules would be a gaming dream come true.

    RIP Ribbitribbitt you are missed, kid.

    Currently Playing EVE, DFUW

    Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and not clothed.

    Dwight D Eisenhower

    My optimism wears heavy boots and is loud.

    Henry Rollins

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