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2.7 million sales . Something prove for both those who love and hate WoW depending how you look at i

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  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    Originally posted by Fendel84M
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    so much for the 10 million subs, we can all call that bs now.

    Note quite.  I'm pretty sure the entire Asian market doesn't have to pay for expansions, which is one reason absolute sales isn't as important as subscription and game time numbers.

    Also, I know quite a few people who are just getting back into the game.  Since you don't actually need the expansion to play the Pandaren race (only to play a monk and 86-90 content), every one of them has decided not to purchase the expansion until they actually need to, assuming they even stick with the game long enough to need to.

    Anyway, I have no clue what the current sub numbers are or anything.  Just wanted to say that it's not quite as simple as assuming 2.7 million sales must mean the 10+ million subs number is way off the mark.

     

    And before anyone calls me a fanboi or whatever, I personally don't enjoy the game anymore, and adding kung fu panda and pokemon to the mix didn't help.  I still hold two subs up, because my 8 year old daughter likes to play it with me, but that's it.  And it should probably give people a good idea of what Blizzards target audience is...

    so stop saying it has 10 million subs then when it doesn't. it has 10 million unique accounts including mine that has been frozen since 2008.

    Thats not true, cause at one point it had 12million subs...How does it have less now than it did before if its just unique accounts? lol

    Just one of the many conspiracies, I like the one that its actually 12 million characters not accounts! lol

    Can you prove that it is not true?

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    @asmkm22: I agree, it isn't that simple. WoW expansion sales and subs are handled differently in China. However, since Blizzard only announces the total number of subs since 2008, it's hard to tell how many are Chinese subs and how many non-Chinese subs.


    Originally posted by Thomas2006

    Originally posted by just1opinion
    Originally posted by Letsinod So basically their 8 year old game's XPac sold more copies than almost any other MMO on the market.  How disappointing...
    Actually....

    It IS disappointing when you compare WoW against, well....WoW.  When the player base is several TIMES what they sold in expansions, that is disheartening.  I think it's very telling, and it's not telling anything good.  Other xpacs sold more than MoP.  This is a downward shift even if small. 


    I have to ask. What do you expect? every expansion in wow to sell more then the last and it to forever continue to increase? Lets find and name any other 8 year old MMO that has managed to sell over 2 million copies of its expansion on day one? Heck lets go as far as to say lets find a younger MMO that has sold over 2 million copies of its expansion on day one.

     

    I think that there's no one denying the huge achievement that WoW has accomplished over the years. However, looking at the latest expansion, it becomes kinda obvious that WoW is slowly settling down. Which is natural and not even that bad at all imo. You can see the signs in how Blizzard went from '1st day sales' announcements to '1st week sales' announcement for the first time with an expansion. So yes, Wow is still doing great with its numbers, but no, compared with itself it's doing less well than all other expansions. Doesn't mean WoW is dying or fading away, just that it's coming down from its peak in a slow decline.
  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by Istavaan

    Can you prove that it is not true?

     

    Their own definitions of what a sub is, states it's true, as well as the quarterly revenues streams that Activision Blizzard periodically announces. They do have about 10 million subs, but about 5-6 million (or maybe more now, no idea) are Chinese subs, for which the defintion of a sub is 'having played at least 1 hr WoW in a month', and 1 million subs included are the annual pass people who got a free D3 if they went for that promotion. Hope this sheds some light on the matter.
  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by halflife25

    My nipples qre quite chilled just took them out of the freezer.I am talkign about how you so nicely  added 'not impressed' as if 8 year old game selling 2+ million in expansions is just an every day thing. And no MOP isn't even released in china yet. Maintaining that huge amoutn of player base is an achievement in itself even though i havent played WOW in 4 years.Give credit where credit is due whether you are impressed or not.

     

    I think I stated very clearly what I wasn't impressed about. The 2.7 million for a 10 mln sub game. Even if the non-Chinese player base is nothing more than 3-4 million, then it still isn't impressive with 0.9 million of that 2.7 being returnees. Because it means that only 1.8 of the actual currently active playerbase had purchased the xpac. I also don't find it impressive that the xpac is doing less well than all other former xpacs. I find it understandable, but I still don't find it impressive. Being on top for 8 years with 10 million subs and more, sure, that's impressive. How this xpac is doing, nah, not that impressive at all imo.

    Shrug. That's how I see it.
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,295Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    so much for the 10 million subs, we can all call that bs now.

    Note quite.  I'm pretty sure the entire Asian market doesn't have to pay for expansions, which is one reason absolute sales isn't as important as subscription and game time numbers.

    Also, I know quite a few people who are just getting back into the game.  Since you don't actually need the expansion to play the Pandaren race (only to play a monk and 86-90 content), every one of them has decided not to purchase the expansion until they actually need to, assuming they even stick with the game long enough to need to.

    Anyway, I have no clue what the current sub numbers are or anything.  Just wanted to say that it's not quite as simple as assuming 2.7 million sales must mean the 10+ million subs number is way off the mark.

     

    And before anyone calls me a fanboi or whatever, I personally don't enjoy the game anymore, and adding kung fu panda and pokemon to the mix didn't help.  I still hold two subs up, because my 8 year old daughter likes to play it with me, but that's it.  And it should probably give people a good idea of what Blizzards target audience is...

    so stop saying it has 10 million subs then when it doesn't. it has 10 million unique accounts including mine that has been frozen since 2008.

    if you are still paying a subscription then it is counted.. if your not paying a sub then it isnt..  its kind of funny really how the WoW haters get so desperate to prove the game is dying when.. actually its doing pretty well despite its age, the fact thats its doing better than a more 'recent' game is probably the reason behind a great deal of the more 'vociferous' hate..  sorry to rain on your parade guys but.. hey.. WoW is still there and its still kicking MMO butt..  deal with it image

  • coretex666coretex666 PraguePosts: 1,934Member Uncommon

    Are expansions of any other MMO which is 8+ years old selling 2.7m+ copies?

    I think it is fewer copies sold than Blizz expected. Not that I saw their budget though.

    The population of WoW will be slowly declining which is given by the lifecycle stage it happens to be in.

    I think we will experience decline in sales numbers with any other expansion to come. This game does not need to prove anything anymore. Its success is undisputable.

    Waiting for L2 EU Classic

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by smh_alot
    Originally posted by halflife25

    My nipples qre quite chilled just took them out of the freezer.

    I am talkign about how you so nicely  added 'not impressed' as if 8 year old game selling 2+ million in expansions is just an every day thing. And no MOP isn't even released in china yet. Maintaining that huge amoutn of player base is an achievement in itself even though i havent played WOW in 4 years.

    Give credit where credit is due whether you are impressed or not.

     

    I think I stated very clearly what I wasn't impressed about. The 2.7 million for a 10 mln sub game. Even if the non-Chinese player base is nothing more than 3-4 million, then it still isn't impressive with 0.9 million of that 2.7 being returnees. Because it means that only 1.8 of the actual currently active playerbase had purchased the xpac. I also don't find it impressive that the xpac is doing less well than all other former xpacs. I find it understandable, but I still don't find it impressive. Being on top for 8 years with 10 million subs and more, sure, that's impressive. How this xpac is doing, nah, not that impressive at all imo.

     

    Shrug. That's how I see it.

    How much BC, CATA, WOTLK sold? didn't WOW had around 11 + million player base back then? if we are going to look at the ratio of every expac sold in comaprison to total player base. So i guess WOW has been a continuous disappointment for years now.

  • OG_ZorvanOG_Zorvan Fresno, CAPosts: 615Member
    Originally posted by Phry
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    so much for the 10 million subs, we can all call that bs now.

    Note quite.  I'm pretty sure the entire Asian market doesn't have to pay for expansions, which is one reason absolute sales isn't as important as subscription and game time numbers.

    Also, I know quite a few people who are just getting back into the game.  Since you don't actually need the expansion to play the Pandaren race (only to play a monk and 86-90 content), every one of them has decided not to purchase the expansion until they actually need to, assuming they even stick with the game long enough to need to.

    Anyway, I have no clue what the current sub numbers are or anything.  Just wanted to say that it's not quite as simple as assuming 2.7 million sales must mean the 10+ million subs number is way off the mark.

     

    And before anyone calls me a fanboi or whatever, I personally don't enjoy the game anymore, and adding kung fu panda and pokemon to the mix didn't help.  I still hold two subs up, because my 8 year old daughter likes to play it with me, but that's it.  And it should probably give people a good idea of what Blizzards target audience is...

    so stop saying it has 10 million subs then when it doesn't. it has 10 million unique accounts including mine that has been frozen since 2008.

    if you are still paying a subscription then it is counted.. if your not paying a sub then it isnt..  its kind of funny really how the WoW haters get so desperate to prove the game is dying when.. actually its doing pretty well despite its age, the fact thats its doing better than a more 'recent' game is probably the reason behind a great deal of the more 'vociferous' hate..  sorry to rain on your parade guys but.. hey.. WoW is still there and its still kicking MMO butt..  deal with it image

    The game is doing good, no doubt. But not as good as they claim. Chinese "sub-numbers" are misleading as Chinese players pay by the hour, and mainly on internet cafe accounts. So even though a Chinese player may only buy one hour of time and then never play again, he's counted as a "sub" for that whole month that he paid for that one little hour in. With billions of Chinese to go through, as well as plenty of gold farmers creating new hack/scam/spam accounts daily, it'll be a while before they run out of "unique subs in the millions".

    EA CEO John Riccitiello's on future microtransactions: "When you are six hours into playing Battlefield and you run out of ammo in your clip, and we ask you for a dollar to reload, you're really not very price sensitive at that point in time...We're not gouging, but we're charging."

  • smh_alotsmh_alot Area 51Posts: 976Member
    Originally posted by Phry

    if you are still paying a subscription then it is counted.. if your not paying a sub then it isnt.. its kind of funny really how the WoW haters get so desperate to prove the game is dying when.. actually its doing pretty well despite its age, the fact thats its doing better than a more 'recent' game is probably the reason behind a great deal of the more 'vociferous' hate.. sorry to rain on your parade guys but.. hey.. WoW is still there and its still kicking MMO butt.. deal with it

    Well, this is only partially true. A different system is being used for its players in China, bc they don't work with subs like usual. When someone in China has played 1 (paid) hour in a month, then for that month that person is counted as a sub. There are various estimations around that put the number of 'China subs' at 5-6 mln, those estimations are 1-2 years old though. If I had to guess, I'd think that the number of non-Chinese subs is like 4 mln or so.

    Originally posted by halflife25

    How much BC, CATA, WOTLK sold? didn't WOW had around 11 + million player base back then? if we are going to look at the ratio of every expac sold in comaprison to total player base. So i guess WOW has been a continuous disappointment for years now.

     

    IIRC (would have to look it up to be 100% sure), but BC had 2.4 mln 1st day sales, WotLK 2.8 mln and CATA 3.4 mln 1st day sales. This is the 1st time that Blizzard changed that and only announced '1st week sales' instead of 1st day sales, and they're 2.7 million. Don't put words in my mouth, I never said those other xpac sales were unimpressive, I said THIS xpac I wasn't impressed about regarding its figures. Seems you have a problem with people not sharing your view of admiration of this xpac, well, sorry, that's my opinion, being unimpressed. Agree to disagree with you, I guess.

    I can't really say more about it that I haven't said already, and I'm not in the mood to keep on arguing with people who have trouble dealing with opinions of being unimpressed, so I'm going to wish you the best with WoW, and keep it at that.
  • aphydorkaphydork Boring, ORPosts: 133Member

    When you think about all the games that should have been major competition, such as Rift, FFXIV, SWTOR, TERA, The Secret World, Aion: F2P, and Guild Wars 2, it's surprising that 2.7 million copies were still sold in the first week, not including China sales.

    That's pretty good, especially when you think about how many people did not like the setting at all, Guild Wars 2 having just been released, and a lot of people reconsidering the value of their subscription money.

    Anyway, competition is good. There is almost always something on the horizon to look forward to now. I remember when you really only had FFXI, WoW, and EQ2 to choose from. Now, there's a bunch of subscriptions and F2Ps to choose from.

  • dllddlld GöteborgPosts: 542Member Uncommon
    I don't really see how age is a good argument against it's inability to gain the same numbers as before, mop isn't old, it's freshly developed in 2010-2012 not 8 years ago, by arguably the most wellfunded team in the industy.
  • aphydorkaphydork Boring, ORPosts: 133Member

    Really? You don't see how a game having been out for 8 years is relevant to people wanting to keep playing it despite being in a highly competitive market with new, shiny titles releasing every few months?

    Well, think it's relevant.

    I agree that the expansion has only been in development for a short while, but you can't change that much. The underlying game is still WoW, and, as you've seen, there's no shortage of hate for WoW.

    It's impressive in that it's unheard of. I could be wrong, but I'm fairly certain any developer would be ecstatic with those numbers after their MMO was out for 8+ years.

    Or did you just want to blindly hate on things? I could let you continue unperturbed, if you wish?

  • BanquettoBanquetto CityPosts: 1,037Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by asmkm22
    Also, I know quite a few people who are just getting back into the game.  Since you don't actually need the expansion to play the Pandaren race (only to play a monk and 86-90 content), every one of them has decided not to purchase the expansion until they actually need to, assuming they even stick with the game long enough to need to.

    Yeah people in these sort of threads are very quick to (incorrectly) assume that 10 million subs = 10 million level 85 people sitting in Stormwind/Orgrimmar queueing for a daily heroic and desperately waiting for some new content.

    It feels like that if you're that sort of player yourself, but it's far from a universal situation. There are lots of people out there (especially in WoW) who play a couple of hours every now and then and for whom reaching level cap is a distant dream.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by smh_alot
     
    Originally posted by halflife25

    How much BC, CATA, WOTLK sold? didn't WOW had around 11 + million player base back then? if we are going to look at the ratio of every expac sold in comaprison to total player base. So i guess WOW has been a continuous disappointment for years now.

     

    IIRC (would have to look it up to be 100% sure), but BC had 2.4 mln 1st day sales, WotLK 2.8 mln and CATA 3.4 mln 1st day sales. This is the 1st time that Blizzard changed that and only announced '1st week sales' instead of 1st day sales, and they're 2.7 million. Don't put words in my mouth, I never said those other xpac sales were unimpressive, I said THIS xpac I wasn't impressed about regarding its figures. Seems you have a problem with people not sharing your view of admiration of this xpac, well, sorry, that's my opinion, being unimpressed. Agree to disagree with you, I guess.

     

    I can't really say more about it that I haven't said already, and I'm not in the mood to keep on arguing with people who have trouble dealing with opinions of being unimpressed, so I'm going to wish you the best with WoW, and keep it at that.

    You did bring up the ratio of expansions sold to the total player base. Did you not? it would easier to reach some proper conclusion if you do not keep changing goal posts in every reply.

    Your argument is not just about first day sales of MOP but how disappointing sales are when compared to total player base. That is why i brought up old expansions which if compared to the old player base of 11+ million would easily fall under category of 'not impressive'.

  • maddhatter44maddhatter44 lawerenceville, GAPosts: 78Member

    refering to the 2.7 million box/digital sales of the XPAC alone....

    still havent released in china ( which is were majority of players is)

    also some otehr countries i believe.

     

    So dont kid yourself, game is still doing great.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    I do wish folks would stop trying to use sales/subs/popularity/xfire/etc figures to 'prove' anything.

    But you can't wish gamers into giving up their most popular fallacy, I guess, any more than you can Gamblers.

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • fivorothfivoroth LondonPosts: 3,665Member Uncommon

    Not everyone buys an expac in the first week. What is so hard to understand about this? The logic that if the game had 5m western subs it should have sold 5m copies in the first week is wrong. There are a lot of reasons why someone wouldn't buy an xpac right away.

    Also last time I checked WoW outsold both GW1 and GW2...................................................

    Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.

  • just1opinionjust1opinion Kansas City, MOPosts: 4,844Member
    Originally posted by Thomas2006

     


    Originally posted by just1opinion

    Originally posted by Letsinod So basically their 8 year old game's XPac sold more copies than almost any other MMO on the market.  How disappointing...
    Actually....

     

    It IS disappointing when you compare WoW against, well....WoW.  When the player base is several TIMES what they sold in expansions, that is disheartening.  I think it's very telling, and it's not telling anything good.  Other xpacs sold more than MoP.  This is a downward shift even if small. 

     


     

    I have to ask. What do you expect? every expansion in wow to sell more then the last and it to forever continue to increase? Lets find and name any other 8 year old MMO that has managed to sell over 2 million copies of its expansion on day one? Heck lets go as far as to say lets find a younger MMO that has sold over 2 million copies of its expansion on day one.

     

    This is why WoW should only be compared to WoW.  It's such an anomaly, such an oddity, such a one-of-a-kind happening, that it's just ludicrous to even compare it to other MMOs in anything having to do with numbers or size.

    President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO SomewherePosts: 1,326Member
    About 30 percent down, if it is 30 percent down, is a bit more than I expected (25%) but it's no real surprise. Still, it remains the 800 pound gorilla out there and that's no surprise either.

    imageimage
  • adam_noxadam_nox hays, KSPosts: 2,036Member Uncommon

    No one cares about WoW anymore except for WoW players (and WoW haters I guess).   It will have a large playerbase that puts up with it for a very long time due to addiction and investment, but it's dying and has been since cataclysm (not DUE to cataclysm imo).

     

    And I looked it up, MoP launched in china oct 2nd.  Nice misinfo though, poster above me.

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member

    I'm not buying the 10 million subs bit, anymore.. I mean, 2.7 sales of the xpac, to me, means they have about 2.71 million subs.

     

    Not hating on it, still puts it ahead of every other MMO.. but only slightly ahead, which incidentally, seems a lot more realistic, too.

     

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • dreamer05dreamer05 Kansas City, MOPosts: 545Member Uncommon
    At this point I'm still just amazed that people enjoy WoW to begin with.  I have no reason to be a hater but that game is one of the most boring and ugly MMOs to have ever been created.  I think it's success is directly relevent to how easy they made it.  Casual gamers and children can easily master it and that's the reason for their success.  Good for them though, just wish this wasn't the new golden standard we had to hold all other new MMOs up to.

    image

    "God, please help us sinful children of Ivalice.."

  • nsignificnsignific ljPosts: 212Member
    Originally posted by Vhaln

    I'm not buying the 10 million subs bit, anymore.. I mean, 2.7 sales of the xpac, to me, means they have about 2.71 million subs.

     

    Not hating on it, still puts it ahead of every other MMO.. but only slightly ahead, which incidentally, seems a lot more realistic, too.

     

    It's fun making stuff up, huh? Even when actual FACTS are freely available. Still, just so much fun to use your imagination, right?

    It's not 10 million subs - it's 10 million players who have payed money in the last 30 days. That's always been the definition - they never hid it - always in plain sight in every press release / quarterly report.

    (mod edit)

  • VhalnVhaln Chicago, ILPosts: 3,159Member
    Originally posted by nsignific
    Originally posted by Vhaln

    I'm not buying the 10 million subs bit, anymore.. I mean, 2.7 sales of the xpac, to me, means they have about 2.71 million subs.

     

    Not hating on it, still puts it ahead of every other MMO.. but only slightly ahead, which incidentally, seems a lot more realistic, too.

     

    It's fun making stuff up, huh? Even when actual FACTS are freely available. Still, just so much fun to use your imagination, right?

    It's not 10 million subs - it's 10 million players who have payed money in the last 30 days. That's always been the definition - they never hid it - always in plain sight in every press release / quarterly report.

    (mod edit)

    Haha, defensive much?

    When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.

  • Ramonski7Ramonski7 Aurora, ILPosts: 2,656Member Uncommon
    Is this debate still going on? Look the game is old...8 years for mmorpgs is like 8 dog years. We are at the stage of WoW's life where it's more like a city than a hip new club. And in a city the age (levels) are a lot more diverse than a club.

    So buying a new expansion is like getting a car now. You don't really buy a car for an 8 year old, I mean you technically could but she won't need it for a long, long time. But my point is the city ain't going nowhere. So what's the rush? Players stop rushing for all things WoW, like years ago...catchup guys.

    image
    "Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."

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