Originally posted by robhyp10 I don't understand why anyone who wants a good hard game to play is not playing secret worlds.
Markers, highlights, zoned not seamless game and cash shop in a subscription game. Fast levelling, focus on end-game instances. Combat is classical which is fine but coupled with only 7 actives skills is really not working for me(yes I know about decks and skill wheel system - I played beta).
Investigation missions are miniority, which is to be expected and I am not complain about it., thing is other quest have quest gps, highlights and are just like in all other current mmorpg's.
Funcom's enthiustatic embrace of freemium model and selling of lifetime subs seemed like TSW was going to be converted fast. Funcom's handling of AoC with billing and with patches that even today break game horribly with almost each one, etc
Really alot of things spoken against long-term investment in this title and I am not looking mmoprg for few weeks. Don't like to even start playing and investing time in mmoprg if I will be forced out of it fast (in example because of freemium conversion).
Originally posted by robhyp10 I don't understand why anyone who wants a good hard game to play is not playing secret worlds.
Funcom.
Next question?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Is life better when you hold grudges against video game companies?
If you had experienced the Billing Debacle of 2008 that I experienced, you would never again trust them with your credit card either.
Feel free to defend them. I do not care.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by robhyp10 I don't understand why anyone who wants a good hard game to play is not playing secret worlds.
Markers, highlights, zoned not seamless game and cash shop in a subscription game. Fast levelling, focus on end-game instances. Combat is classical which is fine but coupled with only 7 actives skills is really not working for me(yes I know about decks and skill wheel system - I played beta).
Investigation missions are miniority, which is to be expected and I am not complain about it., thing is other quest have quest gps, highlights and are just like in all other current mmorpg's.
I have to agree, I died more in TSW than I had in any recent MMORPG and it was a bit refreshing, but at the end of the day you quickly find your self running out of any real progression outside of gear and heading to a gear grinding end game.
I did enjoy the amped up difficulty though, they were on the right track, shame they lost their creativity when trying to figure out what the end game should be and followed the SOP.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by robhyp10 I don't understand why anyone who wants a good hard game to play is not playing secret worlds.
Funcom.
Next question?
Is life better when you hold grudges against video game companies?
Life is better when you learn from your mistakes and stop buying from companies that you deem poor.
Have you not learned this lesson yet? When you order a pizza and it tastes horrible, do not order pizza from the same place.
Not that I have anything agaisnt Funcom, but a hell of a lot of people do based on their experiences with both Anarchy Online and Age of Conan.
I don't deal in absolutes though. And i played AO for many many years and now waiting for the new engine upgrade to dive back in. Sadly pizza shops don't offer free samples but when it comes to games one can try before buy.
Sadly pizza shops don't offer free samples but when it comes to games one can try before buy.
You could, once.
Then people were forced to start using the Store-Refund Trial System, instead...
So then beta pre-sales showed up...
We'll see what the next iteration of the consumers vs corporations retail future holds.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
You have to take into account that there's a huge discrepancy between the gamers that have been playing video games all their lives--before it was cool--and have played most every MMO and major game to date and MMO players that started playing games when WoW became mainstream.
The difference between the two can be as significant as the difference between a progamer and yourself. So when developers balance, they need to take into account a large range of skill levels.
You might argue that the new gamers just need to get as good as you, but... really, it's almost like asking a beginner to tennis to just get as good as a player who started playing at the age of 4. I mean, you could, but what you're really saying is, "Deal with it," which will more likely than not just make the less involved players quit.
WoW seems to have a decent system going in that there are multiple difficulty levels, and unless you have already beaten the latest heroic 25-man raid, you can't say WoW is easymode. You're just jumping on the "WoW is EZ" bandwagon. Though, it might be. I can't say for certain. I've never experienced it.
You are focusing on 25 man heroic as the basis to call WOW hard? Before you get to 25 man anything, what do you do? How do you get there? How long does it take to get there? What challenges are there before grinding gear?
As an old school gamer its about ALL the paths that lead to the end. Not what is at the end. EQ and couple other games put the fear of dying into you. Corpse runs could be a nightmare. You actually had to think about pathing mobs, where you were pulling to, and if you had enough dps to kill this thing out right or if you needed to kite it.
Traveling from one zone to another could be deadly. If you got adds on you the only thing you could do is run for the zone and hope to god you made it.
Then when you made it to max level you banded up with folks, ran your ass to a zone and hoped and prayed to god you could kill boss X without wiping. Wipes were brutal , to say the least.
So 25 man heroic is just 25 people , who are geared, who are OK with dying if it doesnt work. But honestly, what happens if you die? You just float back to the zone in with ease, zone in, buff up and go do it again. OR you have a shaman or a soulstoned person just pop back up and mass rez everyone ( Effortlessly ).
Thats what people are getting at. And yes it IS an easy game. There is litteraly NO challenge to it from start to finish. 25 man heroic is a challenge to beat because the boss has more hps and different moves but beyond that......No
You have to take into account that there's a huge discrepancy between the gamers that have been playing video games all their lives--before it was cool--and have played most every MMO and major game to date and MMO players that started playing games when WoW became mainstream.
The difference between the two can be as significant as the difference between a progamer and yourself. So when developers balance, they need to take into account a large range of skill levels.
You might argue that the new gamers just need to get as good as you, but... really, it's almost like asking a beginner to tennis to just get as good as a player who started playing at the age of 4. I mean, you could, but what you're really saying is, "Deal with it," which will more likely than not just make the less involved players quit.
WoW seems to have a decent system going in that there are multiple difficulty levels, and unless you have already beaten the latest heroic 25-man raid, you can't say WoW is easymode. You're just jumping on the "WoW is EZ" bandwagon. Though, it might be. I can't say for certain. I've never experienced it.
You are focusing on 25 man heroic as the basis to call WOW hard? Before you get to 25 man anything, what do you do? How do you get there? How long does it take to get there? What challenges are there before grinding gear?
As an old school gamer its about ALL the paths that lead to the end. Not what is at the end. EQ and couple other games put the fear of dying into you. Corpse runs could be a nightmare. You actually had to think about pathing mobs, where you were pulling to, and if you had enough dps to kill this thing out right or if you needed to kite it.
Traveling from one zone to another could be deadly. If you got adds on you the only thing you could do is run for the zone and hope to god you made it.
Then when you made it to max level you banded up with folks, ran your ass to a zone and hoped and prayed to god you could kill boss X without wiping. Wipes were brutal , to say the least.
So 25 man heroic is just 25 people , who are geared, who are OK with dying if it doesnt work. But honestly, what happens if you die? You just float back to the zone in with ease, zone in, buff up and go do it again. OR you have a shaman or a soulstoned person just pop back up and mass rez everyone ( Effortlessly ).
Thats what people are getting at. And yes it IS an easy game. There is litteraly NO challenge to it from start to finish. 25 man heroic is a challenge to beat because the boss has more hps and different moves but beyond that......No
WOW, (no pun intended) very nice job explaining the difference in play styles between what made EQ challenging and why WOW really isn't, no in the same vein at least. And let's not forget the challenge of coordinating raids of larger sizes than 25.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You mean more than 25 players! Being told to do one thing! Herding cats anyone?
I remember being in cross guild faction combat in DAOC. Guild leaders trying to cordinate what was happening and trying to get their guild to do it right. A few hundred were involved. These days the group size is what 4 and a 16 man raid is biggest I saw in SWTOR. But like all the other new MMOs it was easy to get into and everthing must be sacrificed for that, grouping, crafting, raids, faction combat, roleplaying, throw them all on the bonfire and bask in the easymode.
Well, after having been following this thread for a while, looks like everybody who has participated so far would prefer more challenging games. So, while we may not be a majority, we do exist, and we may not be a minority as small as some think.
So, why the hell are we not getting any option when it comes to MMOs? Niches can mean business too. Look at EVE. Look at Minecraft.
I'm sure developers don't mind making games to target niche demographics. The problem is with funding. Everyone here says they want challenging AND a AAA MMO. Therein lies the problem.
You'll need to find a publisher who does not mind taking a hit in revenue to cater to a smaller number of gamers, when they could just as easily inflict influence on the developers to change some numbers around--see LOWER--and now have their product be accessible to a much larger number of players, and their wallets.
You can't really blame publishers either. They're in the business of making money. The large publishers always have and always will be. There is a reason why they are willing to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at a developing company to produce AAA MMOs. There is a reason why they can throw even more money at their less successful products, like FFXIV, to get them up to par, despite having failed launches.
The silver lining, though, is that for every major AAA MMO that sells well--note that I said sell--they can fund smaller projects targeted towards niche gamers.
FFXI was a difficult but fairly successful game. Over the course of the years, they made it a lot easier as well, and Square Enix might have gotten a taste of how that affects sales. It might not be possible anymore.
Just look at the WOW forums when CATA was released. There were a lot of complaint of heroic dungeons (NOT raids) being difficult.
They nerfed them, and all teh subsequent dungeons (in patches) were easier.
And the had the same discussions for every other expansion thus far, too.
Blizzard bounces around like a ping pong ball. BC--"oops, too much rep grind and atunement mazes, sorry guys". WoTLK--"oops, we maybe went a tad overboard with the ezmode, sorry guys" CAT--"oops, we did promise things would be a little rougher, didn't we? sorry guys" MOP=="we'll let you know in a couple of months what folks gripe about this time, kay?"
Discussion of Blizzard's caving to the masses belongs over on Blizzard's bltchf...er, forums, doesn't it?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Yes I am talking about markers that show player where to go (and all changes to gameplay and design that come with it).
I will use your own words. For me having those is stupid. What it does it change game into something that is not a game anymore. You don't need to figure things out, just follow an arrow / marker. Just following an marker is not playing game for me cause I don't need to think and don't need to make decisions.
Because you expect "finding things" to be a part of gameplay. The real gameplay is killing things. Personally, finding things is boring. I have done the paper grid map thing in early computer gaming days. It was no challenge .. just draw your surrounding, and follow a direction, how hard was that? It is .. however .. boring to me.
I would much prefer follow an arrow to where the combat is. The "going" part preferred to be short and add atmosphere before combat starts.
Coupling that with easiness of content it mean that I am almost certain that I will complete whatever it is at place that marker show me.
Combat shouldn't be too easy. That is why a difficulty setting is useful. You will never find combat too easy because of that.
So there is no game. I don't even see what is 'game' part in doing that kind of quest. Finding things? No. Since I don't find anything. Figuring things out? No. I have everything presented on a silver platter. Preparing myself? No. There are no mechanics that require any preparetion. Combat? No. 95%-99% are solo quest made for low geared most squischy class with goal that most players should complete quest of first try.
As long as combat has some challenge, that is the "game" for you.
So with current design there is no single element that require any effort, any decision, thinking or that bring any consequence.
Really? Which game you are talking about?
WOW hard mode raid with DPS check requires you to optimize DPS (by using the right gaer and right spec).
D3 (which is not a MMO, but close enough in playstyle of many players) requires you to be careful particular faced with some combinations of skills of the elite/champ packs. Now you don't have to play in a challenging mode, but the challenging mode is there if you want it (with more loot).
Regarding guides - solution lies with more randomization of quest placement of quest objevtives. Now monster that is quest objective always spawn in one place (or sometimes in one of two-three pre-definated places).
Because finding stuff is not the focus of the game. It is easy to random stuff ... ask yourself why devs don't do it? Because many players look upon finding things as an annoyance, not fun gameplay.
Solo quest allow for bigger personalization and randomization of those. Also designing quests with option of failue.
Many will just try until they succeed. So the 'failure" option is wasted. If you only allow one try, wait for the QQing.
Basically LESS number of quests, but more complex ones, option to fail and not complete them, more randomization, etc That is discussion for whole other thread though.
Randomization has some use .. like in D3 .. give you slightly different terrain to fight in, and spawn monster can come at you at different direction. But it was never about making finding things a more focused part of the gameplay.
The only kind of non-combat gameplay that i find interestnig is stealth and use of environment objects (like hacking a turret). So i suppose you can count that as getting from point A to B (now that would requires thinking & planning of the route, and avoidance/killing of enemies).
However, i still don't want search as part of the game. That is just not fun to me. Given that in many stealth game, the objective is marked out for you (Dishonored, & Deus Ex for example) .. i bet that the target audience agree with me.
Sandbox? Yes I like sandbox. Just have to be well made. Low-budget indie unfinished ones - I tried I really did try and support them, but even though I don't expect level of polishing I've been reading in topics of Swtor or Gw2 after relase and I can accept bugs as long as they are fixed - I can't stand such low quality product like Mortal Online.
Just look at the WOW forums when CATA was released. There were a lot of complaint of heroic dungeons (NOT raids) being difficult.
They nerfed them, and all teh subsequent dungeons (in patches) were easier.
And the had the same discussions for every other expansion thus far, too.
Blizzard bounces around like a ping pong ball. BC--"oops, too much rep grind and atunement mazes, sorry guys". WoTLK--"oops, we maybe went a tad overboard with the ezmode, sorry guys" CAT--"oops, we did promise things would be a little rougher, didn't we? sorry guys" MOP=="we'll let you know in a couple of months what folks gripe about this time, kay?"
Discussion of Blizzard's caving to the masses belongs over on Blizzard's bltchf...er, forums, doesn't it?
And people complains Blizz does not listen to their players?
Personally i think D3 monster level is the way to go. Anyway they design their encounters, some will cry "too hard" and some will cry "too easy".
Just give people an option.
For WOW, they did it with 3 levels of raids .. they should do it for dungeons (they do have challenge mode dungeons in MOP now), and leveling.
Because you expect "finding things" to be a part of gameplay. The real gameplay is killing things. Personally, finding things is boring. I
Real gameplay is more varied than killing things. Killing is just one part of gameplay. Personally I find games that have only or almost only boring.
For rest of your citations. I was going to cite them all and respond but we did discussions like that for multuiple times and I responded around 50 of your lenght posts or answers to mine posts and that would be just repeating it all over again.
It all basically start from here. You find my vision of game and gameplay boring and I find your vision boring.
edit: one more thing. Never said about drawing whole map yourself. General map with cities and villages being shown as you uncover it is ok. Even if absolutely neccesary mini-map with my character marked and enemies my character see marked is bearable.
You should play Dark Souls. The combat is challenging with interesting encounters. The game does not tell you where to go, and you can go wherever you want. You are punished for dying by losing all the "experience" you've gained but haven't spent up to the point where you died.
It's only $40 on Steam. Play it with a controller, though.
But don't expect an MMO to be made like it anytime soon. At least not a AAA MMO. I don't think any publishers would risk that investment, when they can have the whole pie.
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in finding an MMO to suit your tastes, because I don't really agree with you. Opening my quest log and Googling where monsters are has never been my idea of fun. I'm sure there are players who agree with you, but, from what I've seen, most gamers are ecstatic that they point you in the direction you have to go. Whenever they add that feature, players breathe a breath of fresh air, like when it was added to Skyrim.
Bad poll, as usual. I want a game that's challenging to a certain degree, but not utterly frustrating. After all, I play games to have fun and fill up my spare time. I want to be able to accomplish something in the time I have available and feel like I did something worthwhile. A game where you just die over and over and over again is not fun for me. A game where I don't have to look at the screen to win isn't fun either. I want something in the middle, which is not reflected in the poll.
And the had the same discussions for every other expansion thus far, too.
Blizzard bounces around like a ping pong ball. BC--"oops, too much rep grind and atunement mazes, sorry guys". WoTLK--"oops, we maybe went a tad overboard with the ezmode, sorry guys" CAT--"oops, we did promise things would be a little rougher, didn't we? sorry guys" MOP=="we'll let you know in a couple of months what folks gripe about this time, kay?"
Discussion of Blizzard's caving to the masses belongs over on Blizzard's bltchf...er, forums, doesn't it?
That's called catering to your customers, it's what all companies do. As the wishes of their customers changes, they change the game to suit.
What, would you rather Blizzard say "fuck you bitches, this is what you get, give me your money"?
Comments
Markers, highlights, zoned not seamless game and cash shop in a subscription game. Fast levelling, focus on end-game instances. Combat is classical which is fine but coupled with only 7 actives skills is really not working for me(yes I know about decks and skill wheel system - I played beta).
Investigation missions are miniority, which is to be expected and I am not complain about it., thing is other quest have quest gps, highlights and are just like in all other current mmorpg's.
Funcom's enthiustatic embrace of freemium model and selling of lifetime subs seemed like TSW was going to be converted fast. Funcom's handling of AoC with billing and with patches that even today break game horribly with almost each one, etc
Really alot of things spoken against long-term investment in this title and I am not looking mmoprg for few weeks. Don't like to even start playing and investing time in mmoprg if I will be forced out of it fast (in example because of freemium conversion).
Funcom.
Next question?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Is life better when you hold grudges against video game companies?
If you had experienced the Billing Debacle of 2008 that I experienced, you would never again trust them with your credit card either.
Feel free to defend them. I do not care.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
I didn't. It was a question.
I use entropay because i don't trust any company when it comes to my CC.
Life is better when you learn from your mistakes and stop buying from companies that you deem poor.
Have you not learned this lesson yet? When you order a pizza and it tastes horrible, do not order pizza from the same place.
Not that I have anything agaisnt Funcom, but a hell of a lot of people do based on their experiences with both Anarchy Online and Age of Conan.
I have to agree, I died more in TSW than I had in any recent MMORPG and it was a bit refreshing, but at the end of the day you quickly find your self running out of any real progression outside of gear and heading to a gear grinding end game.
I did enjoy the amped up difficulty though, they were on the right track, shame they lost their creativity when trying to figure out what the end game should be and followed the SOP.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I don't deal in absolutes though. And i played AO for many many years and now waiting for the new engine upgrade to dive back in. Sadly pizza shops don't offer free samples but when it comes to games one can try before buy.
You could, once.
Then people were forced to start using the Store-Refund Trial System, instead...
So then beta pre-sales showed up...
We'll see what the next iteration of the consumers vs corporations retail future holds.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
You are focusing on 25 man heroic as the basis to call WOW hard? Before you get to 25 man anything, what do you do? How do you get there? How long does it take to get there? What challenges are there before grinding gear?
As an old school gamer its about ALL the paths that lead to the end. Not what is at the end. EQ and couple other games put the fear of dying into you. Corpse runs could be a nightmare. You actually had to think about pathing mobs, where you were pulling to, and if you had enough dps to kill this thing out right or if you needed to kite it.
Traveling from one zone to another could be deadly. If you got adds on you the only thing you could do is run for the zone and hope to god you made it.
Then when you made it to max level you banded up with folks, ran your ass to a zone and hoped and prayed to god you could kill boss X without wiping. Wipes were brutal , to say the least.
So 25 man heroic is just 25 people , who are geared, who are OK with dying if it doesnt work. But honestly, what happens if you die? You just float back to the zone in with ease, zone in, buff up and go do it again. OR you have a shaman or a soulstoned person just pop back up and mass rez everyone ( Effortlessly ).
Thats what people are getting at. And yes it IS an easy game. There is litteraly NO challenge to it from start to finish. 25 man heroic is a challenge to beat because the boss has more hps and different moves but beyond that......No
Because I think it is a bad game. Been there done that and its badly made.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
WOW, (no pun intended) very nice job explaining the difference in play styles between what made EQ challenging and why WOW really isn't, no in the same vein at least. And let's not forget the challenge of coordinating raids of larger sizes than 25.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You mean more than 25 players! Being told to do one thing! Herding cats anyone?
I remember being in cross guild faction combat in DAOC. Guild leaders trying to cordinate what was happening and trying to get their guild to do it right. A few hundred were involved. These days the group size is what 4 and a 16 man raid is biggest I saw in SWTOR. But like all the other new MMOs it was easy to get into and everthing must be sacrificed for that, grouping, crafting, raids, faction combat, roleplaying, throw them all on the bonfire and bask in the easymode.
Well, after having been following this thread for a while, looks like everybody who has participated so far would prefer more challenging games. So, while we may not be a majority, we do exist, and we may not be a minority as small as some think.
So, why the hell are we not getting any option when it comes to MMOs? Niches can mean business too. Look at EVE. Look at Minecraft.
I'm sure developers don't mind making games to target niche demographics. The problem is with funding. Everyone here says they want challenging AND a AAA MMO. Therein lies the problem.
You'll need to find a publisher who does not mind taking a hit in revenue to cater to a smaller number of gamers, when they could just as easily inflict influence on the developers to change some numbers around--see LOWER--and now have their product be accessible to a much larger number of players, and their wallets.
You can't really blame publishers either. They're in the business of making money. The large publishers always have and always will be. There is a reason why they are willing to throw hundreds of millions of dollars at a developing company to produce AAA MMOs. There is a reason why they can throw even more money at their less successful products, like FFXIV, to get them up to par, despite having failed launches.
The silver lining, though, is that for every major AAA MMO that sells well--note that I said sell--they can fund smaller projects targeted towards niche gamers.
FFXI was a difficult but fairly successful game. Over the course of the years, they made it a lot easier as well, and Square Enix might have gotten a taste of how that affects sales. It might not be possible anymore.
the good part is in world of warcraft you can choose the difficulty you want to play in.
at least PVP is not easy.
Games currently playing:
------------------------
Pro Evolution Soccer
World of Warcraft
Light of Nova
League of Legends
To answer the question .. YES.
Just look at the WOW forums when CATA was released. There were a lot of complaint of heroic dungeons (NOT raids) being difficult.
They nerfed them, and all teh subsequent dungeons (in patches) were easier.
And the had the same discussions for every other expansion thus far, too.
Blizzard bounces around like a ping pong ball. BC--"oops, too much rep grind and atunement mazes, sorry guys". WoTLK--"oops, we maybe went a tad overboard with the ezmode, sorry guys" CAT--"oops, we did promise things would be a little rougher, didn't we? sorry guys" MOP=="we'll let you know in a couple of months what folks gripe about this time, kay?"
Discussion of Blizzard's caving to the masses belongs over on Blizzard's bltchf...er, forums, doesn't it?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
depends
if "hard" means challenging in terms of skill level - yes please
if "hard" means repetitive aka grinding to infinity - no please
And people complains Blizz does not listen to their players?
Personally i think D3 monster level is the way to go. Anyway they design their encounters, some will cry "too hard" and some will cry "too easy".
Just give people an option.
For WOW, they did it with 3 levels of raids .. they should do it for dungeons (they do have challenge mode dungeons in MOP now), and leveling.
Real gameplay is more varied than killing things. Killing is just one part of gameplay. Personally I find games that have only or almost only boring.
For rest of your citations. I was going to cite them all and respond but we did discussions like that for multuiple times and I responded around 50 of your lenght posts or answers to mine posts and that would be just repeating it all over again.
It all basically start from here. You find my vision of game and gameplay boring and I find your vision boring.
edit: one more thing. Never said about drawing whole map yourself. General map with cities and villages being shown as you uncover it is ok. Even if absolutely neccesary mini-map with my character marked and enemies my character see marked is bearable.
Anything more is boring.
You should play Dark Souls. The combat is challenging with interesting encounters. The game does not tell you where to go, and you can go wherever you want. You are punished for dying by losing all the "experience" you've gained but haven't spent up to the point where you died.
It's only $40 on Steam. Play it with a controller, though.
But don't expect an MMO to be made like it anytime soon. At least not a AAA MMO. I don't think any publishers would risk that investment, when they can have the whole pie.
Anyway, I wish you the best of luck in finding an MMO to suit your tastes, because I don't really agree with you. Opening my quest log and Googling where monsters are has never been my idea of fun. I'm sure there are players who agree with you, but, from what I've seen, most gamers are ecstatic that they point you in the direction you have to go. Whenever they add that feature, players breathe a breath of fresh air, like when it was added to Skyrim.
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
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That's called catering to your customers, it's what all companies do. As the wishes of their customers changes, they change the game to suit.
What, would you rather Blizzard say "fuck you bitches, this is what you get, give me your money"?
Played: UO, EQ, WoW, DDO, SWG, AO, CoH, EvE, TR, AoC, GW, GA, Aion, Allods, lots more
Relatively Recently (Re)Played: HL2 (all), Halo (PC, all), Batman:AA; AC, ME, BS, DA, FO3, DS, Doom (all), LFD1&2, KOTOR, Portal 1&2, Blink, Elder Scrolls (all), lots more
Now Playing: None
Hope: None