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Biggest concern: zerg nutcupping

psykobillypsykobilly NYC, NYPosts: 338Member

 

I'm a little worried we will see a repeat of DF release.  Basically what happened is that a zerg alliance formed on each sub-continent and completely locked it down.  Then you had maybe 3 big zerg alliances on the main continent each take a 3rd of the slice.  (there were some exceptions/resistance of course, but that's basically how it went down)

The zerg attitude is: tough shit it's a sandbox.  But in the long run it hurt the population of the game because you had new groups coming into the game that couldn't do anything unless they joined into a zerg.   

There is no way to prevent this from happening, but I really hope that the vet guilds coming back will keep their balls and not hand em out for everyone to cup.  

 

 

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Comments

  • goblagobla somewherePosts: 1,411Member
    And I was so looking forward to HERPing (Homo-Erotic Role-Playing) in this game...

    We are the bunny.
    Resistance is futile.
    ''/\/\'''''/\/\''''''/\/\
    ( o.o) ( o.o) ( o.o)
    (")("),,(")("),(")(")

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    I don't see this being an issue.  Better coordinated smaller forces would beat a Zerg most of the time. 
  • psykobillypsykobilly NYC, NYPosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    I don't see this being an issue.  Better coordinated smaller forces would beat a Zerg most of the time. 

    Did you play DF at release?  That is not how DF works.  Later on in the evolution of the game you had some really developed small groups that were good - but now there are no more super-characters.  The role-based system makes numbers more of a factor than ever.

     

     

  • Pumuckl71Pumuckl71 istanbulPosts: 121Member
    Originally posted by gobla
    And I was so looking forward to HERPing (Homo-Erotic Role-Playing) in this game...

    quite a nonesmart  remark

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon

    I don't believe the "zerg" really hurted the population in of itself. What really hurted the population was the lack of tools for small clans to thrive, and changes that created a need for large clans to control even more areas (Teleport Chambers).

    Zerg as a tactic is a perfectly valid one, but is not invincible. I've seen zergs lose on many occasions against smaller groups who outplayed their enemies with better strategies. As far as controlling entire Islands, it's all about politics. A perfectly legit and normal thing to happen.

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • 123443211234123443211234 seattle, WAPosts: 244Member
    LOL complaining about population but then worrying about zergs in a populated game.  Theres gonna be zergs if a world that can hold 50k players 10k online at once is actually populated.  The reason there were zergs.......there were people.  With a healthy population expect to see massive zergs comparable to hyperion or cotc 1500-2000 players easy.  Expect it, enjoy the change in gameplay.  You can stil be in a small guild, just don't expect to hold any land for long if you don't have lots of friends.
  • AethaerynAethaeryn Kitchener, ONPosts: 1,973Member Uncommon
    Yeah but then a few people on the inside decide to take over. . infighting ensues. . deals are broken. . that is what makes the game great in that stage :)

    Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psykobilly

     

    I'm a little worried we will see a repeat of DF release.  Basically what happened is that a zerg alliance formed on each sub-continent and completely locked it down.  Then you had maybe 3 big zerg alliances on the main continent each take a 3rd of the slice.  (there were some exceptions/resistance of course, but that's basically how it went down)

    The zerg attitude is: tough shit it's a sandbox.  But in the long run it hurt the population of the game because you had new groups coming into the game that couldn't do anything unless they joined into a zerg.   

    There is no way to prevent this from happening, but I really hope that the vet guilds coming back will keep their balls and not hand em out for everyone to cup.  

    There's always ways to create just enough dissent and discord to fracture a zerg. If there's hasn't been any way so far to break it or stand against a massive alliance in DF, maybe the DF players just need to get a bit more creative in their approach.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • HotjazzHotjazz BalsfjordPosts: 742Member
    Originally posted by psykobilly

    Did you play DF at release?  That is not how DF works. 

    I don`t think those who complain about zergs played at release. They think DF is like it has been the last two years, and they call a tiny group of 30 players a zerg.

     

    Seriously, why do people think we dream and talk about the first three months of Darkfall?  We had thousands of players, zergs, politcs, sieges and pvp all the time. The unemploid basement dwellers hadn`t been able to make their "high level chars" with the "I win button" so the fights were pretty even.

     

    If you didn`t play the first three months, you haven`t seen the glory of Darkfall. If we get something close to that at the start of DFUW, I`ll die a happy man. God I miss that mayhem

  • reacaerreacaer dioPosts: 18Member

    There will surely be zergs, zerg mentality never dies. Its not necessary a bad thing tho, new players can find their strenght in their numbers while they progress their player skills.

    We have yet to see how many ppl will come for the release, as for now theres some guild with 100+ players ready to start on DF:UW (and with alliances ready to be created).. if it turns to be as DF1 release the real big alliances will be on the order of thousands players.. >_>

    The main difference tho, is that small clans/sqads will be more viable in DF:UW - Fast travel wont require city portals anymore, there will be public portals, and there will be other ways to get rare materials from the new villages control system.

    Maybe in sieges you'll get smashed by big zergs, but in daily pvp you can give em hell :D

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Hotjazz
    Originally posted by psykobilly

    Did you play DF at release?  That is not how DF works. 

    I don`t think those who complain about zergs played at release. They think DF is like it has been the last two years, and they call a tiny group of 30 players a zerg.

    Seriously, why do people think we dream and talk about the first three months of Darkfall?  We had thousands of players, zergs, politcs, sieges and pvp all the time. The unemploid basement dwellers hadn`t been able to make their "high level chars" with the "I win button" so the fights were pretty even.

    If you didn`t play the first three months, you haven`t seen the glory of Darkfall. If we get something close to that at the start of DFUW, I`ll die a happy man. God I miss that mayhem

    So what's your plan for month 4 of DFUW?

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • ZushakonZushakon JönköpingPosts: 119Member
    Originally posted by psykobilly
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    I don't see this being an issue.  Better coordinated smaller forces would beat a Zerg most of the time. 

    Did you play DF at release?  That is not how DF works.  Later on in the evolution of the game you had some really developed small groups that were good - but now there are no more super-characters.  The role-based system makes numbers more of a factor than ever.

     

     

     Probably quite the opposite, as teamwork and coordination will be much more vital with the new roles system. 

    Darkfall Unholy Wars:
    Zushakon Odi

  • MadnessRealmMadnessRealm Montreal, QCPosts: 2,716Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Zushakon
    Originally posted by psykobilly
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    I don't see this being an issue.  Better coordinated smaller forces would beat a Zerg most of the time. 

    Did you play DF at release?  That is not how DF works.  Later on in the evolution of the game you had some really developed small groups that were good - but now there are no more super-characters.  The role-based system makes numbers more of a factor than ever.

     

     

     Probably quite the opposite, as teamwork and coordination will be much more vital with the new roles system. 

    We could see some pretty interesting tactics being used. Baresark's Stomp will make for a great Cannon to shoot your allies over enemy lines for instance.

    ------
    Your daily dose of common sense since 2009!

  • HotjazzHotjazz BalsfjordPosts: 742Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit

    So what's your plan for month 4 of DFUW?

    I still have an active account on DF1 and I will surly play on month four of DFUW too I just hope a lot of players will stay after the initial start this time, and a lot of new playes will join. Every large scale fighting after month three, I will consider a pleasant bonus.

  • FluteFlute WellingtonPosts: 434Member

    Yup it will be megazergs again, and currently the game appears to be on track to lose 1/6th of its players or so when the first major wars end and 2 of the megazergs crush the 3rd of the big 3.  With no-where to fall back to, and loss of months worth of work building up player cities, we was huge game drop-out rates in Darkfall 1.0: there appears to be nothing at all to stop that happening again.

     

    As another player observed Darkfall 1.0 as a FFA full loot pvp game would inevitably eat itself, and it did.

    The simple economics of the game are such that the losers of major wars will not recover (because the winners have control of better resources so time for time get  huge economic boost), and mercenaries will undoubtedly do what they did last time round and drive gold buying and exploiting.

     

    Darkfall : Unholy Wars should be a lot of fun, don't get me wrong.  But I can see myself playing EVE or something else a year from now unless Aventurine surprise me and do something  to stabilise the playerbase (such as add a Highsec equivalent continent).  My #1 most anticipated game was this one, but from how Aventuirne is handling the advertising and from the area of effect wow-esq abilities in their Bearsark video, I am now moving this to #2; but I will still play it because my #1 anticipated game isn't going to be out for a while yet for sure.

  • FluteFlute WellingtonPosts: 434Member
    Originally posted by Loktofeit
    Originally posted by Hotjazz
    Originally posted by psykobilly

    Did you play DF at release?  That is not how DF works. 

    I don`t think those who complain about zergs played at release. They think DF is like it has been the last two years, and they call a tiny group of 30 players a zerg.

    Seriously, why do people think we dream and talk about the first three months of Darkfall?  We had thousands of players, zergs, politcs, sieges and pvp all the time. The unemploid basement dwellers hadn`t been able to make their "high level chars" with the "I win button" so the fights were pretty even.

    If you didn`t play the first three months, you haven`t seen the glory of Darkfall. If we get something close to that at the start of DFUW, I`ll die a happy man. God I miss that mayhem

    So what's your plan for month 4 of DFUW?

    Month 4 may well be EVE Online.  The first 3 months should be huge fun, but beyond that the jury is out - I know I won't be buying a year subscription unless it's radically cheaper.

  • PurutzilPurutzil East Stroudsburg, PAPosts: 2,924Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Badaboom
    I don't see this being an issue.  Better coordinated smaller forces would beat a Zerg most of the time. 

    In 95% of the cases, this just isn't true. A zerg will simply win out with superior numbers. A smaller more organized force CAN do more damage and take out more number wise, but a pure zerg is able to easily outpower then. Theres no 'advanced tactics' in any mmo that can really encompass a smaller tactial group winning. This worked in RL due to the 'zerg' (aka larger armies) having flaws that could be exploited, while a zerg is very random and lacks organization to really exploit in direct conflict.

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper logan lake, BCPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by psykobilly

     

    I'm a little worried we will see a repeat of DF release.  Basically what happened is that a zerg alliance formed on each sub-continent and completely locked it down.  Then you had maybe 3 big zerg alliances on the main continent each take a 3rd of the slice.  (there were some exceptions/resistance of course, but that's basically how it went down)

    The zerg attitude is: tough shit it's a sandbox.  But in the long run it hurt the population of the game because you had new groups coming into the game that couldn't do anything unless they joined into a zerg.   

    There is no way to prevent this from happening, but I really hope that the vet guilds coming back will keep their balls and not hand em out for everyone to cup.  

     

     

     it's got nothing to do with vet guilds or new guilds. even if the vet guilds dont make alliances the new guilds will. in a sanbox size is might and there is no way arround it. just look at EvE, the mightiest corporations are also the biggest.

    i really dont understand the alliance hate. do you truly believe that a group of 10 friends should have the same strenght, land, power as a guild of 100?.....  completely rediculous notion.

     you want to take on the guild with 100 players? get yourself 100 of your own guild mates, and see just how idfficult it is to make 100 people happy and keep them together. Large alliances take a lot of work to form and maintain. if you dont want to put in the work then you can't expect the same results, and you sure as hell shouldn't be complaining about zerg alliances. Nobody is preventing you from making your own zerg allinace....

    PS; having played EvE, DF, MO myself i can tell you that i've seen more alliances broken (and guilds defeated) by treachery, bribery, scheming, backstabbing, sabotaging, greefing than any battle or war ever did.  there are hundreds of ways to brake an alliance without ever unsheating a sword on the battle field.

  • psykobillypsykobilly NYC, NYPosts: 338Member
    Originally posted by Flute

    Yup it will be megazergs again, and currently the game appears to be on track to lose 1/6th of its players or so when the first major wars end and 2 of the megazergs crush the 3rd of the big 3.  With no-where to fall back to, and loss of months worth of work building up player cities, we was huge game drop-out rates in Darkfall 1.0: there appears to be nothing at all to stop that happening again.

    This is someone who gets what I am saying.

    I played the first 3 months of DF release - it was awesome PVP and mayhem everywhere as people have stated.  The nutcupping also pushed a lot of players out of the game (how short peoples memories are).

    The role-system makes zerging more viable than ever - the skill bar is much lower and everyone in the zerg will max out their role in short order.  The limbo system makes this even worse as the zerg can perpetually respawn in combat with fresh gear (with some limitations I know).  The so-called small skilled groups will be overwhelmed.

    My HOPE is that the vets will remember what happened and resist.  It is, generally speaking, the carebears who form zergs so they can farm/skill-up in peace.  While I expect the zergs, I hope there is a new CotC or similar to fight for their break up.

     

     

  • TamanousTamanous Edmonton, ABPosts: 2,125Member Uncommon

    Funny.

     

    If you subsitute the word "zerg" with "army" the game concept makes much more sense.

     

    This is the ultimate paradox when it comes to pvp mmos. The so called hardcore crowd screams and yells for open, real world objectives which is the defining reason behind why nations are built and armies are formed yet when that occurs in their so called "sandbox" game they wanted so much to play, they call them zergs and run off to the developers crying they can't solo kill these zerg armies.

     

    [mod edit]

    You stay sassy!

  • JakdstripperJakdstripper logan lake, BCPosts: 2,126Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    Funny.

     

    If you subsitute the word "zerg" with "army" the game concept makes much more sense.

    This is the ultimate paradox when it comes to pvp mmos. The so called hardcore crowd screams and yells for open, real world objectives which is the defining reason behind why nations are built and armies are formed yet when that occurs in their so called "sandbox" game they wanted so much to play, they call them zergs and run off to the developers crying they can't solo kill these zerg armies.

    [mod edit]

     well said.

     "give us freedom!", "give us freedom!" "wait a minute...without rules there is no fairness....Give us Rules!"

  • BadaboomBadaboom Moose Jaw, SKPosts: 2,380Member
    Originally posted by Jakdstripper
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    Funny.

     

    If you subsitute the word "zerg" with "army" the game concept makes much more sense.

    This is the ultimate paradox when it comes to pvp mmos. The so called hardcore crowd screams and yells for open, real world objectives which is the defining reason behind why nations are built and armies are formed yet when that occurs in their so called "sandbox" game they wanted so much to play, they call them zergs and run off to the developers crying they can't solo kill these zerg armies.

    [mod edit]

     well said.

     

    Exactly. People also are not taking about the sandboxiness of making allies, etc and the hard work that goes into building those armies. 

  • bunnyhopperbunnyhopper LondonPosts: 2,751Member
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    Funny.

     

    If you subsitute the word "zerg" with "army" the game concept makes much more sense.

    This is the ultimate paradox when it comes to pvp mmos. The so called hardcore crowd screams and yells for open, real world objectives which is the defining reason behind why nations are built and armies are formed yet when that occurs in their so called "sandbox" game they wanted so much to play, they call them zergs and run off to the developers crying they can't solo kill these zerg armies.

    [mod edit]

    Pretty much.

    "Come and have a look at what you could have won."

  • LoktofeitLoktofeit Stone Mountain, GAPosts: 13,666Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Tamanous

    Funny.

    If you subsitute the word "zerg" with "army" the game concept makes much more sense.

    This is the ultimate paradox when it comes to pvp mmos. The so called hardcore crowd screams and yells for open, real world objectives which is the defining reason behind why nations are built and armies are formed yet when that occurs in their so called "sandbox" game they wanted so much to play, they call them zergs and run off to the developers crying they can't solo kill these zerg armies.

    Agreed. I think there are a lot more people infautated by the idea of an open PVP game with territorial control than there are actually understand what it entails or even how its played.

    There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
    "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre

  • CelusiosCelusios Denver, COPosts: 340Member Uncommon

    This is going to happen again, guaranteed. It happens in every Sandbox game. However, the reason they're so successful is because all of the newcomers and others are too stupid to combat them.

    The common problem is everyone feels the need to make their own group so they can be this supreme grand leader. They take a portion of the new player base and a portion of the existing player base. So you continue to have the remnants of the non zerged alliance making these groups fighting eachother instead of making one giant group to combat the alliance. Alliances will always work for that reason. People are too concerned for virtual power than actually playing smart.

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