Originally posted by cyandk How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?
Allow me to speculate?
They payed off the gamebryo engine early on and are using what would of been development overheads to develop new features?
and/or
Taking less of a cut from the subscription fees, Developing new features with that and marketing to new potential players(or walking dollar signs) "We are committed to a tight development schedule"
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by Scalpless IMO it's less about Trion being very fast and more about everyone else being very slow.
I remember in Beta that Trion said that they focused heavily on making the servers as stable as possible, so that once the beta would start, they could focus on actually tweaking/fixing the game rather than fixing the servers. It seems obvious at first, but when Rift is one of the few MMOs as of late to actually have a stable release (and beta), then I'd be inclined to agree with you that it's not about Trion being very fast, but about everyone else being very slow. Trion got their priorities right.
Originally posted by MadnessRealm Originally posted by ScalplessIMO it's less about Trion being very fast and more about everyone else being very slow.
I remember in Beta that Trion said that they focused heavily on making the servers as stable as possible, so that once the beta would start, they could focus on actually tweaking/fixing the game rather than fixing the servers. It seems obvious at first, but when Rift is one of the few MMOs as of late to actually have a stable release (and beta), then I'd be inclined to agree with you that it's not about Trion being very fast, but about everyone else being very slow. Trion got their priorities right.
The beta was hardly stable, They were fixing bugs right up to the last minute. (like it should be)
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by ScalplessIMO it's less about Trion being very fast and more about everyone else being very slow.
I remember in Beta that Trion said that they focused heavily on making the servers as stable as possible, so that once the beta would start, they could focus on actually tweaking/fixing the game rather than fixing the servers. It seems obvious at first, but when Rift is one of the few MMOs as of late to actually have a stable release (and beta), then I'd be inclined to agree with you that it's not about Trion being very fast, but about everyone else being very slow. Trion got their priorities right.
The beta was hardly stable, They were fixing bugs right up to the last minute. (like it should be)
Server-wise, it was pretty stable. Bugs was a different story (although I personally didn't experience any bugs throughout beta 4 to 7)
Originally posted by cyandk How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?
I'ts probably more than likely, it's always been doable, just no one else does it.
Well, they are their own publisher. So perhaps that allows them to afford a larger dev team? I really have no idea. They really do crank out the content though.
Google Trion 3 server technology. That's how. They built a brand new tech so that they could have new content come at record speeds. Anyone post Trion needs to figure out how they did it and clone that if they want to keep up.
I guess it is not that hard to pull out something as generic as Rift...
lol, one might think that but most of the MMO's out right no are some what generic, just look at GW2 for example, very generic asian grinder look to it, but will they be able to turn out the land content quickly, time will only tell.
RIFT is just doing what other MMO's have done right and making it part of what it has to offer.
The fast content release is something EQ and EQ2 did right.
Doing things like that is what made WoW so big back in the day.
Originally posted by cyandk How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?
They kind of have to in order to keep their already small player base happy. Blizzard gets away with their slower pace because people keep paying. Blizzard could increase their pace by a LOT. They just don't have to.
Originally posted by elocke Google Trion 3 server technology. That's how. They built a brand new tech so that they could have new content come at record speeds. Anyone post Trion needs to figure out how they did it and clone that if they want to keep up.
Server technology has nothing to do with content delivery. Blizzard could simply double their number raid development teams and have them crank out twice as many raids if they wanted to.
No large publisher dictating messing with internal politics.
They aren't trying to reinvent the genre, so there are fewer development risks.
Fairly innexpensive development budget to release the game (around 50 million) and low operational costs.
Small dev team that probably works well together, resulting in "agile" development and unified direction.
Number 1 and 2, in partular, are the bane of most other MMO's. Blizzard would be an exception, since they own the IP and have never really had to deal with publisher interference.
For an MMO to be successful, it almost needs to meet at least three of those points. Rift meets all five.
Originally posted by elocke Google Trion 3 server technology. That's how. They built a brand new tech so that they could have new content come at record speeds. Anyone post Trion needs to figure out how they did it and clone that if they want to keep up.
Server technology has nothing to do with content delivery. Blizzard could simply double their number raid development teams and have them crank out twice as many raids if they wanted to.
Exactly.
Blizz could be making expansions for WoW on weekly basis if they werent investing money in Titan. WoW is no longer getting any significant funding since it is not supposed to be their nr. 1 product in several years time.
Trion on the other hand relies on Rift a lot, so that it is worth investing for them.
Blizzard has invested heavily in WoW, and continues to do so. They don't release content faster for pacing reasons, related to a critical mass actually completing the existing stuff. They do have a lot of overhead, with so many servers and customers. They also spend a lot of time further developing server and game tech, which is something Trion doesn't really do much of.
Originally posted by cyandk How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?
That is such a VAGUE statement it means nothing at all.
How about give me some examples about content?
Simple mapping is nothing,i can do that myself,one person.they alread have an auto generated Rift and Invasion system,so that takes little effort.
What exactly are you talking about?
Assests do take time to make,if they are not animated the ytake a ton less time and effort.Buildings for example if having no insides is about as cheap as yo ucan go for effort,again i can make by myself "one guy" tons of static buildings.
Textures/sounds take time if are NEW assests.Most of what makes a game is in the engine and it's tools.Pretty much every developer is smart enough to code in a set of commands that allows a very fast and simple interface for all versions of content.So after the ymake the assests they simply start checkling off what they want those assests to do.
Example every texture will have a lotr of properties to check off,surfaces will have several properties to check off,it is not like they start fro mscratch everytime they make a new asset.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
All they have to do is follow a planned out SDLC with dedicated employees who actually know how to meet deadlines under budget. Seems hard to believe in this time of half finished piles of MMO's with tons of promised features that were cut due to inept and unorganized developers.
I think there're two major factors to it, and from what I heard from interviews they did, it seemed to fit.
- Having a stable, flexible foundation, ie if your engine, architecture and main source code is solid, then you don't have to spend resources (=time and devs) to fixing stuff and bughunting all the time. It saves a lot of time in your 1sat half year after launch, and you have less to worry about when adding and implementing new code/content if the base is solid.
- They didn't just hire any monkey that could code or had hung around in the field, whether that was CS or testing or actual code. They went actively searching for the really good professionals in their fields and recruited those. From experience, it matters a LOT if you've either a fresh or mediocre programmer or someone who came from 'soft' fields like customer service and testing and who then made the switch, or if you've a heavyweight developer and coding specialist with many years of experience under his belt. It matters in the speed as well as the stability of the coding. A team of 5 really good specialists can easily outpace a mixed team of 15 new, average and other-field workers.
As for Activion Blizzard, well, they could easily throw a lot of money and people to development and thus even compensate for lower quality of devs... the current pace shows however that it hasn't been their priority for years. WoW has managed to generate ove 1 billion dollars a year, I don't even think that the bulk of that money went to Titan, and certainly not to WoW. Activision and top management profited, some people have been getting really good bonuses the past years, is my guess.
Originally posted by cyandk How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?
What is this "content"? I got Rift trial, so not sure what content they are pumping so fast? Is it like monthly issues in TSW?
Originally posted by cyandk How can they keep releasing content at the rate they are compared to everyone else? Did they ever share their secrets about it somewhere?
Compared to everyone else?
Rift have at least 250K players and earned 100K$ the lasy year, the question is how any MMO could afford to not release that much content the same time.
I like Trion, Rift is not really my type of game b ut it surely have the supportit need to do fine. However it is not really Trion doing right here, this is the only way if you want to keep your players today in a P2P game.
Originally posted by Arkain lol, one might think that but most of the MMO's out right no are some what generic, just look at GW2 for example, very generic asian grinder look to it, but will they be able to turn out the land content quickly, time will only tell.
Cannot speak for GW2 but no major MMO title has as generic world as Rift has. Not even remotely close.
Vast, empty, open, detail lacking landscapes. It is like playing a game from 10 years ago.
I guess that is why you can hear sometimes the game being described as soulless.
I do not want to belittle the effort Trion does. The amount of content they release is very impressive, content released though is not so much.
As they stated in a recent interview, where they were not apologetic about having a subscription fee (especially during these crazy times where people think MMOs should be free) they provide a service. They are dedicated to making their game worth it. They even boldy (and rightfully) say that no other studio does what they do.
They admit it when they mess up, have excellent CS, and an extremely aggressive release schedule for fixes, updates and new content. Their MMO evolved more in the last year and a half than others have in years or during their entire lifetime.
If you don't like that type of game, I understand. But dismissing it without getting to know it is a mistake in my opinion - as is basing your opinion on how the game was in the beginning. The Instant Adventures, crazy awesome stuff coming with the expansion, on top of everything else makes this a very different game than it was originally.. And it was good at release. It just keeps getting better and better.
I'm a total fan of Rift and Trion. I enjoy the game. Their style and the service they provide has made Rift the first MMORPG I have stayed with longer than a couple of months since DAoC and EQ. I've been with Rift non-stop since beta.
It's been great lately seeing not only so many people returning after trying other things, but brand-new players as well. With the expansion right around the corner, it's an excellent time to get back into it, or get into it in the first place. Especially since 1.11 dropped.
Originally posted by ScalplessIMO it's less about Trion being very fast and more about everyone else being very slow.
I remember in Beta that Trion said that they focused heavily on making the servers as stable as possible, so that once the beta would start, they could focus on actually tweaking/fixing the game rather than fixing the servers. It seems obvious at first, but when Rift is one of the few MMOs as of late to actually have a stable release (and beta), then I'd be inclined to agree with you that it's not about Trion being very fast, but about everyone else being very slow. Trion got their priorities right.
The beta was hardly stable, They were fixing bugs right up to the last minute. (like it should be)
I remember 3 times during beta reporting bugs and having them quickly within 10 minutes having them announce a server restart and bug fix. I think it has much to do with actually caring more about the game you are making and less about the money you are making.
A completely different business model, where they think they can make more over the long run by making good solid games that last and keeping a solid reputation with the players, instead of trying to take as much as they can off the front end and not care about longevity or reputation.
The rate that Trion puts out content should and will be the standard for MMO's to come. Its amazing how they do it at the pace its been done. Even though i don't play Rift anymore and i have moved on to something that suits my style i would reccomend it to anyone looking to play a solid, fun and reliable MMO.
The way they have handled Rift also has me intersted in other Trion games. Looking forward to what they have to offer.
Comments
Allow me to speculate?
They payed off the gamebryo engine early on and are using what would of been development overheads to develop new features?
and/or
Taking less of a cut from the subscription fees, Developing new features with that and marketing to new potential players(or walking dollar signs) "We are committed to a tight development schedule"
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I remember in Beta that Trion said that they focused heavily on making the servers as stable as possible, so that once the beta would start, they could focus on actually tweaking/fixing the game rather than fixing the servers. It seems obvious at first, but when Rift is one of the few MMOs as of late to actually have a stable release (and beta), then I'd be inclined to agree with you that it's not about Trion being very fast, but about everyone else being very slow. Trion got their priorities right.
The beta was hardly stable, They were fixing bugs right up to the last minute. (like it should be)
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Server-wise, it was pretty stable. Bugs was a different story (although I personally didn't experience any bugs throughout beta 4 to 7)
I'ts probably more than likely, it's always been doable, just no one else does it.
They learnt from SoE, since Hartsman was basically EQ2 producer for 4-5 years.
SoE has been always good in releasing content with their yearly expansions.
I remember that the first couple of years EQ2 had expansions every 6 months and even a quarterly mini expansion called "adventures".
They stopped doing so, probably because the subscription base collapsed, and wasn't worth it anymore, but it is doable.
Probably Rift subscription numbers are still worth the regular updates.
Well, they are their own publisher. So perhaps that allows them to afford a larger dev team? I really have no idea. They really do crank out the content though.
I guess it is not that hard to pull out something as generic as Rift...
lol, one might think that but most of the MMO's out right no are some what generic, just look at GW2 for example, very generic asian grinder look to it, but will they be able to turn out the land content quickly, time will only tell.
RIFT is just doing what other MMO's have done right and making it part of what it has to offer.
The fast content release is something EQ and EQ2 did right.
Doing things like that is what made WoW so big back in the day.
They kind of have to in order to keep their already small player base happy. Blizzard gets away with their slower pace because people keep paying. Blizzard could increase their pace by a LOT. They just don't have to.
Server technology has nothing to do with content delivery. Blizzard could simply double their number raid development teams and have them crank out twice as many raids if they wanted to.
Top five reasons, IMO.
You make me like charity
Blizzard has invested heavily in WoW, and continues to do so. They don't release content faster for pacing reasons, related to a critical mass actually completing the existing stuff. They do have a lot of overhead, with so many servers and customers. They also spend a lot of time further developing server and game tech, which is something Trion doesn't really do much of.
You make me like charity
That is such a VAGUE statement it means nothing at all.
How about give me some examples about content?
Simple mapping is nothing,i can do that myself,one person.they alread have an auto generated Rift and Invasion system,so that takes little effort.
What exactly are you talking about?
Assests do take time to make,if they are not animated the ytake a ton less time and effort.Buildings for example if having no insides is about as cheap as yo ucan go for effort,again i can make by myself "one guy" tons of static buildings.
Textures/sounds take time if are NEW assests.Most of what makes a game is in the engine and it's tools.Pretty much every developer is smart enough to code in a set of commands that allows a very fast and simple interface for all versions of content.So after the ymake the assests they simply start checkling off what they want those assests to do.
Example every texture will have a lotr of properties to check off,surfaces will have several properties to check off,it is not like they start fro mscratch everytime they make a new asset.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
- Having a stable, flexible foundation, ie if your engine, architecture and main source code is solid, then you don't have to spend resources (=time and devs) to fixing stuff and bughunting all the time. It saves a lot of time in your 1sat half year after launch, and you have less to worry about when adding and implementing new code/content if the base is solid.
- They didn't just hire any monkey that could code or had hung around in the field, whether that was CS or testing or actual code. They went actively searching for the really good professionals in their fields and recruited those. From experience, it matters a LOT if you've either a fresh or mediocre programmer or someone who came from 'soft' fields like customer service and testing and who then made the switch, or if you've a heavyweight developer and coding specialist with many years of experience under his belt. It matters in the speed as well as the stability of the coding. A team of 5 really good specialists can easily outpace a mixed team of 15 new, average and other-field workers.
As for Activion Blizzard, well, they could easily throw a lot of money and people to development and thus even compensate for lower quality of devs... the current pace shows however that it hasn't been their priority for years. WoW has managed to generate ove 1 billion dollars a year, I don't even think that the bulk of that money went to Titan, and certainly not to WoW. Activision and top management profited, some people have been getting really good bonuses the past years, is my guess.
What is this "content"? I got Rift trial, so not sure what content they are pumping so fast? Is it like monthly issues in TSW?
Compared to everyone else?
Rift have at least 250K players and earned 100K$ the lasy year, the question is how any MMO could afford to not release that much content the same time.
I like Trion, Rift is not really my type of game b ut it surely have the supportit need to do fine. However it is not really Trion doing right here, this is the only way if you want to keep your players today in a P2P game.
Cannot speak for GW2 but no major MMO title has as generic world as Rift has. Not even remotely close.
Vast, empty, open, detail lacking landscapes. It is like playing a game from 10 years ago.
I guess that is why you can hear sometimes the game being described as soulless.
I do not want to belittle the effort Trion does. The amount of content they release is very impressive, content released though is not so much.
As they stated in a recent interview, where they were not apologetic about having a subscription fee (especially during these crazy times where people think MMOs should be free) they provide a service. They are dedicated to making their game worth it. They even boldy (and rightfully) say that no other studio does what they do.
They admit it when they mess up, have excellent CS, and an extremely aggressive release schedule for fixes, updates and new content. Their MMO evolved more in the last year and a half than others have in years or during their entire lifetime.
If you don't like that type of game, I understand. But dismissing it without getting to know it is a mistake in my opinion - as is basing your opinion on how the game was in the beginning. The Instant Adventures, crazy awesome stuff coming with the expansion, on top of everything else makes this a very different game than it was originally.. And it was good at release. It just keeps getting better and better.
I'm a total fan of Rift and Trion. I enjoy the game. Their style and the service they provide has made Rift the first MMORPG I have stayed with longer than a couple of months since DAoC and EQ. I've been with Rift non-stop since beta.
It's been great lately seeing not only so many people returning after trying other things, but brand-new players as well. With the expansion right around the corner, it's an excellent time to get back into it, or get into it in the first place. Especially since 1.11 dropped.
Yeah yeah, I'm a fanboy. I feel it's justified.
I remember 3 times during beta reporting bugs and having them quickly within 10 minutes having them announce a server restart and bug fix. I think it has much to do with actually caring more about the game you are making and less about the money you are making.
A completely different business model, where they think they can make more over the long run by making good solid games that last and keeping a solid reputation with the players, instead of trying to take as much as they can off the front end and not care about longevity or reputation.
On and another thing.. what they have done with Rift and the way they have done it gives me huge hopes for what they will be doing with
DEFIANCE
Rift was not really my kinda thing Defiance is.
The rate that Trion puts out content should and will be the standard for MMO's to come. Its amazing how they do it at the pace its been done. Even though i don't play Rift anymore and i have moved on to something that suits my style i would reccomend it to anyone looking to play a solid, fun and reliable MMO.
The way they have handled Rift also has me intersted in other Trion games. Looking forward to what they have to offer.