How is this foundry going to be any different from the one in CoH or STO? Sure there will be some improvements but once again, I feel Cryptic is creating hype about it that they can not back up. I think many of you will be disappointed with the tools Cryptic provides.
"Sean (Murray) saying MP will be in the game is not remotely close to evidence that at the point of purchase people thought there was MP in the game." - SEANMCAD
It looks like it might be good, but then again Cryptic seems to have a huge problem delivering any depth and/or creativity in their games and usually deliver a shallow experience that they then call a casual mmog. We'll see.
Let me put all your feet back on the ground. This is PW we are talking about. Getting excited about any game they make is ludicrous. They will make the item shop mandatory and very expensive. It is that way in every game. You will greatly regret that this game is f2p because it will cost you far more than a regular sub to play this game.
I want to be excited about this game, and the foundry is definitely something to be excited about! My only issue is the action combat, that's NOT D&D. I have a huge problem reading all these articles about how they are trying to capture D&D with this game, yet to me D&D is turn-based combat!
We'll see, I'll definitely give it a shot; I hope I get into that Beta soon.
everything outside of action combat is DEAD for new mmo's - no one wants tab targeting and excel fighting anymore...this is not a pen and paper game its a computer game so god damn use its possibilities!
Originally posted by saxifr I will never give Cryptic another dime after STO. Do some research on the dis-satisfaction current and former players have had with STO if you are curious about buying this game but not sure what you have to look forward to.
Originally posted by Ozmodan Let me put all your feet back on the ground. This is PW we are talking about. Getting excited about any game they make is ludicrous. They will make the item shop mandatory and very expensive. It is that way in every game. You will greatly regret that this game is f2p because it will cost you far more than a regular sub to play this game.
well they said several times the item shop will be cosmetics and convenience only...they mentionned this A LOT of times - to these kind of questions (see official forum)...so i doubt they would expose themselfes like this on their official site and then just shit in everyones face
I want to be excited about this game, and the foundry is definitely something to be excited about! My only issue is the action combat, that's NOT D&D. I have a huge problem reading all these articles about how they are trying to capture D&D with this game, yet to me D&D is turn-based combat!
We'll see, I'll definitely give it a shot; I hope I get into that Beta soon.
everything outside of action combat is DEAD for new mmo's - no one wants tab targeting and excel fighting anymore...this is not a pen and paper game its a computer game so god damn use its possibilities!
traditional mmo combat is freakin boring
not for everyone obviously.. i like the action combat style but can see the appeal of the traditional way.. I just got xcom which is completely turn based game and having a blast with it.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I want to be excited about this game, and the foundry is definitely something to be excited about! My only issue is the action combat, that's NOT D&D. I have a huge problem reading all these articles about how they are trying to capture D&D with this game, yet to me D&D is turn-based combat!
We'll see, I'll definitely give it a shot; I hope I get into that Beta soon.
everything outside of action combat is DEAD for new mmo's - no one wants tab targeting and excel fighting anymore...this is not a pen and paper game its a computer game so god damn use its possibilities!
traditional mmo combat is freakin boring
not for everyone obviously.. i like the action combat style but can see the appeal of the traditional way.. I just got xcom which is completely turn based game and having a blast with it.
the thing is - there are HUNDREDS of mmo's with that kind of combat - play one of those...besides, mmo have the worst kind of combat since it is NO tactical combat, its just repetitive boring crapp
tactical turn based combat is absolutely fine but i think its very hard to pull off in an mmo and get good results...i also think it works better for strategy games where you are able to use several characters...
Originally posted by Ozmodan Let me put all your feet back on the ground. This is PW we are talking about. Getting excited about any game they make is ludicrous. They will make the item shop mandatory and very expensive. It is that way in every game. You will greatly regret that this game is f2p because it will cost you far more than a regular sub to play this game.
well they said several times the item shop will be cosmetics and convenience only...they mentionned this A LOT of times - to these kind of questions (see official forum)...so i doubt they would expose themselfes like this on their official site and then just shit in everyones face
If you believe that then you are naive. All PW cash shops are mandatory and expensive, all.
I want to be excited about this game, and the foundry is definitely something to be excited about! My only issue is the action combat, that's NOT D&D. I have a huge problem reading all these articles about how they are trying to capture D&D with this game, yet to me D&D is turn-based combat!
We'll see, I'll definitely give it a shot; I hope I get into that Beta soon.
everything outside of action combat is DEAD for new mmo's - no one wants tab targeting and excel fighting anymore...this is not a pen and paper game its a computer game so god damn use its possibilities!
traditional mmo combat is freakin boring
not for everyone obviously.. i like the action combat style but can see the appeal of the traditional way.. I just got xcom which is completely turn based game and having a blast with it.
the thing is - there are HUNDREDS of mmo's with that kind of combat - play one of those...besides, mmo have the worst kind of combat since it is NO tactical combat, its just repetitive boring crapp
tactical turn based combat is absolutely fine but i think its very hard to pull off in an mmo and get good results...i also think it works better for strategy games where you are able to use several characters...
all based on design and doesn't need to be like that.. but it is true for the most part.. have you tried atlantica online? has a nice turn based strategic combat system and is a MMO.. only issues is many of it's other game features are greatly lacking.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
hmmm dunno, i mean they also now their game will crash and burn if players think they will get ripped off no? are these kind of ripp off games profitable? looking at sto and the such...
do devs not care about the reputation they get? there are a lot of mmo devs that have acquired such a bad rep that all their future games will probably fail and they can only dispand (looking at funcom)
all based on design and doesn't need to be like that.. but it is true for the most part.. have you tried atlantica online? has a nice turn based strategic combat system and is a MMO.. only issues is many of it's other game features are greatly lacking.
know that one, but it is rather a strategy game as far as i understand...
Originally posted by Asm0deus Just keep them gambling lockboxes out of the game please!
Good luck with that, those or a similar mechanic have appeared in all the PWE games I bothered to look up, for those in Asia release. Or a cash shop so restrictive or unbalancing that there is no way Western gamers would put up with it.
Can't wait to test this out.. I'll keep giving them a chance to get it right.. BTW i'm in champions online and STO and love both of them, the cash shop is tempting but not necessary for me to enjoy both games..
Originally posted by rygard49 The Foundry system is something I think has the potential to change the genre. I'm excited about it, but I'm also cynical that most MMO gamers from the new generation will ignore it completely and move on before it has a chance to fly.
I doubt it'll change the genre. It's not the first game to allow players to build their own dungeons/content. CoX, SWG, and Saga of Ryzom also had this. The genre hasn't changed because of it.
I want to be excited about this game, and the foundry is definitely something to be excited about! My only issue is the action combat, that's NOT D&D. I have a huge problem reading all these articles about how they are trying to capture D&D with this game, yet to me D&D is turn-based combat!
We'll see, I'll definitely give it a shot; I hope I get into that Beta soon.
everything outside of action combat is DEAD for new mmo's - no one wants tab targeting and excel fighting anymore...this is not a pen and paper game its a computer game so god damn use its possibilities!
traditional mmo combat is freakin boring
not for everyone obviously.. i like the action combat style but can see the appeal of the traditional way.. I just got xcom which is completely turn based game and having a blast with it.
the thing is - there are HUNDREDS of mmo's with that kind of combat - play one of those...besides, mmo have the worst kind of combat since it is NO tactical combat, its just repetitive boring crapp
tactical turn based combat is absolutely fine but i think its very hard to pull off in an mmo and get good results...i also think it works better for strategy games where you are able to use several characters...
all based on design and doesn't need to be like that.. but it is true for the most part.. have you tried atlantica online? has a nice turn based strategic combat system and is a MMO.. only issues is many of it's other game features are greatly lacking.
I'm having the same gripe about this game and it's one of the major reasons I'm not excited or even looking forward to this game. DnD is and has always been a turn-based RPG to me. Just look at the Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Neverwinter series to know what I mean. If you all think those games weren't challenging and didn't requires tactics and strategy, I don't know what to tell you.
Action combat puts the challenge on twitch skills mostly, because the combat is so frantic you can't really make skill/ability usage the main focus. Action combat is usually about a lot of mouse clicking, character moving and dodging. That IMHO gets old fast and isn't conducive to allowing players to chat with each other and build a community/friendships. Tactical turn-based combat, like in Baldur's Gate, will allow players to think about their opponents and how to counter their strengths and weaknesses, all the while being able to eat a sandwich and talk with the community.
I want to be excited about this game, and the foundry is definitely something to be excited about! My only issue is the action combat, that's NOT D&D. I have a huge problem reading all these articles about how they are trying to capture D&D with this game, yet to me D&D is turn-based combat!
We'll see, I'll definitely give it a shot; I hope I get into that Beta soon.
everything outside of action combat is DEAD for new mmo's - no one wants tab targeting and excel fighting anymore...this is not a pen and paper game its a computer game so god damn use its possibilities!
traditional mmo combat is freakin boring
not for everyone obviously.. i like the action combat style but can see the appeal of the traditional way.. I just got xcom which is completely turn based game and having a blast with it.
the thing is - there are HUNDREDS of mmo's with that kind of combat - play one of those...besides, mmo have the worst kind of combat since it is NO tactical combat, its just repetitive boring crapp
tactical turn based combat is absolutely fine but i think its very hard to pull off in an mmo and get good results...i also think it works better for strategy games where you are able to use several characters...
all based on design and doesn't need to be like that.. but it is true for the most part.. have you tried atlantica online? has a nice turn based strategic combat system and is a MMO.. only issues is many of it's other game features are greatly lacking.
I'm having the same gripe about this game and it's one of the major reasons I'm not excited or even looking forward to this game. DnD is and has always been a turn-based RPG to me. Just look at the Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Neverwinter series to know what I mean. If you all think those games weren't challenging and didn't requires tactics and strategy, I don't know what to tell you.
Action combat puts the challenge on twitch skills mostly, because the combat is so frantic you can't really make skill/ability usage the main focus. Action combat is usually about a lot of mouse clicking, character moving and dodging. That IMHO gets old fast and isn't conducive to allowing players to chat with each other and build a community/friendships. Tactical turn-based combat, like in Baldur's Gate, will allow players to think about their opponents and how to counter their strengths and weaknesses, all the while being able to eat a sandwich and talk with the community.
First, I don't want to be chatting while I'm fighting. If I have time to type a mesage to my friends while I'm in combat, something has gone horribly wrong with the combat design (See WoW for some combt you can chat through)
D&D has always been about action combat at it's core. Pre-planning tatics has always been necessary, and with action combat, pre-planning comes into play again. With a turn based system, you can dive in, see what happens, then sit nice and still on your turn figuring out what to do. Talk about a snail's pace, and a recipe for a dull MMO. No, I'll take the fluid pace of action combat over running up to an enemy, declaring intent for combat, letting some virtual dice roll to determine who goes first, and then taking my time to play Math! The Fighting Game! (Do I have a high enough Str modifier to overcome his AC?? What about my reflex save?? Oh God, where did I put my spreadsheet???)
At least with an action based system, I can make use of things like Tumble skills (Acrobatics, like being able to jump higher to get around an obstacle an opponent can't), speed advantages (actually moving faster than my enemies, rather than having a higher number than them that let's me move first) and skill combos all in real time. I know the PNP D&D was exactly as I just described, but those are the limitations of a PNP system, which is why they don't work or even need to work in a system like an MMO.
Think about it. In a turn based game, it completely boils down to just the numbers in my character sheet. Rather than putting points into the Dodge skill simply to raise a flat %, I'd much rather points spent in Dodge to say, raise the duration of the invincibility frames, or let you dodge further in a single attempt for instance. The game comes alive in an action combat system, where with a turn based system, we get D&D with a fancy GUI, and far too many limitations to make the experience as enjoyable as the actual PNP experience.
First, I don't want to be chatting while I'm fighting. If I have time to type a mesage to my friends while I'm in combat, something has gone horribly wrong with the combat design (See WoW for some combt you can chat through)
D&D has always been about action combat at it's core. Pre-planning tatics has always been necessary, and with action combat, pre-planning comes into play again. With a turn based system, you can dive in, see what happens, then sit nice and still on your turn figuring out what to do. Talk about a snail's pace, and a recipe for a dull MMO. No, I'll take the fluid pace of action combat over running up to an enemy, declaring intent for combat, letting some virtual dice roll to determine who goes first, and then taking my time to play Math! The Fighting Game! (Do I have a high enough Str modifier to overcome his AC?? What about my reflex save?? Oh God, where did I put my spreadsheet???)
At least with an action based system, I can make use of things like Tumble skills (Acrobatics, like being able to jump higher to get around an obstacle an opponent can't), speed advantages (actually moving faster than my enemies, rather than having a higher number than them that let's me move first) and skill combos all in real time. I know the PNP D&D was exactly as I just described, but those are the limitations of a PNP system, which is why they don't work or even need to work in a system like an MMO.
Think about it. In a turn based game, it completely boils down to just the numbers in my character sheet. Rather than putting points into the Dodge skill simply to raise a flat %, I'd much rather points spent in Dodge to say, raise the duration of the invincibility frames, or let you dodge further in a single attempt for instance. The game comes alive in an action combat system, where with a turn based system, we get D&D with a fancy GUI, and far too many limitations to make the experience as enjoyable as the actual PNP experience.
/endrant
that's not true at all as most turn based games are based on tactics and strategy.. yes numbers matter but good tactics trump numbers... not to misunderstand I love action based games but many still love the slower strategic combat style.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
First, I don't want to be chatting while I'm fighting. If I have time to type a mesage to my friends while I'm in combat, something has gone horribly wrong with the combat design (See WoW for some combt you can chat through)
D&D has always been about action combat at it's core. Pre-planning tatics has always been necessary, and with action combat, pre-planning comes into play again. With a turn based system, you can dive in, see what happens, then sit nice and still on your turn figuring out what to do. Talk about a snail's pace, and a recipe for a dull MMO. No, I'll take the fluid pace of action combat over running up to an enemy, declaring intent for combat, letting some virtual dice roll to determine who goes first, and then taking my time to play Math! The Fighting Game! (Do I have a high enough Str modifier to overcome his AC?? What about my reflex save?? Oh God, where did I put my spreadsheet???)
At least with an action based system, I can make use of things like Tumble skills (Acrobatics, like being able to jump higher to get around an obstacle an opponent can't), speed advantages (actually moving faster than my enemies, rather than having a higher number than them that let's me move first) and skill combos all in real time. I know the PNP D&D was exactly as I just described, but those are the limitations of a PNP system, which is why they don't work or even need to work in a system like an MMO.
Think about it. In a turn based game, it completely boils down to just the numbers in my character sheet. Rather than putting points into the Dodge skill simply to raise a flat %, I'd much rather points spent in Dodge to say, raise the duration of the invincibility frames, or let you dodge further in a single attempt for instance. The game comes alive in an action combat system, where with a turn based system, we get D&D with a fancy GUI, and far too many limitations to make the experience as enjoyable as the actual PNP experience.
/endrant
Every game I have ever played number crunches, does the math as you put it, hell there are hundreds if not thousands of web pages out there dedicated to just that, to name a few famous ones, Elitest jerk, Wowhead, hell even these forums do it, people posting build, what is better than what, its all number crunching, stats, charts it goes on and on, all math, unless you make a game that is 100% random you will always deal with stats.
I agree a game that pauses at the end of each turn is not as fluid as an mmo, but an mmo is not about fast pace action, go go go, thats a fps, and even those have voice chat so you can work as a team, MMO are all about chat/text about comunicating with your fellow man/woman/orc, they are made so you cant just solo the whole game, if you want that then play a single player game, but to take chat out of an MMO is just madness, that said I agree that in combat texting is not the best way to get a message across that is why more and more mmos are putting in voice chat, which is a double bladed sword, great for communication, bad for atmosphere, really takes you out of any feeling of attachement to a toon when you have an 8 year old that wont go to bed screaming in your ear on a raid.
I would like them to stay true to DnD rule with all the stats and things, but not turn based, DnD online managed this very well, I hope they build on this for Neverwinter.
Comments
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
everything outside of action combat is DEAD for new mmo's - no one wants tab targeting and excel fighting anymore...this is not a pen and paper game its a computer game so god damn use its possibilities!
traditional mmo combat is freakin boring
It's free to play.
well they said several times the item shop will be cosmetics and convenience only...they mentionned this A LOT of times - to these kind of questions (see official forum)...so i doubt they would expose themselfes like this on their official site and then just shit in everyones face
not for everyone obviously.. i like the action combat style but can see the appeal of the traditional way.. I just got xcom which is completely turn based game and having a blast with it.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
the thing is - there are HUNDREDS of mmo's with that kind of combat - play one of those...besides, mmo have the worst kind of combat since it is NO tactical combat, its just repetitive boring crapp
tactical turn based combat is absolutely fine but i think its very hard to pull off in an mmo and get good results...i also think it works better for strategy games where you are able to use several characters...
If you believe that then you are naive. All PW cash shops are mandatory and expensive, all.
all based on design and doesn't need to be like that.. but it is true for the most part.. have you tried atlantica online? has a nice turn based strategic combat system and is a MMO.. only issues is many of it's other game features are greatly lacking.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
hmmm dunno, i mean they also now their game will crash and burn if players think they will get ripped off no? are these kind of ripp off games profitable? looking at sto and the such...
do devs not care about the reputation they get? there are a lot of mmo devs that have acquired such a bad rep that all their future games will probably fail and they can only dispand (looking at funcom)
know that one, but it is rather a strategy game as far as i understand...
This will be a Mortal Online killer!
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
Good luck with that, those or a similar mechanic have appeared in all the PWE games I bothered to look up, for those in Asia release. Or a cash shop so restrictive or unbalancing that there is no way Western gamers would put up with it.
BTW i'm in champions online and STO and love both of them, the cash shop is tempting but not necessary for me to enjoy both games..
I doubt it'll change the genre. It's not the first game to allow players to build their own dungeons/content. CoX, SWG, and Saga of Ryzom also had this. The genre hasn't changed because of it.
I'm having the same gripe about this game and it's one of the major reasons I'm not excited or even looking forward to this game. DnD is and has always been a turn-based RPG to me. Just look at the Baldur's Gate, Icewind Dale, and Neverwinter series to know what I mean. If you all think those games weren't challenging and didn't requires tactics and strategy, I don't know what to tell you.
Action combat puts the challenge on twitch skills mostly, because the combat is so frantic you can't really make skill/ability usage the main focus. Action combat is usually about a lot of mouse clicking, character moving and dodging. That IMHO gets old fast and isn't conducive to allowing players to chat with each other and build a community/friendships. Tactical turn-based combat, like in Baldur's Gate, will allow players to think about their opponents and how to counter their strengths and weaknesses, all the while being able to eat a sandwich and talk with the community.
First, I don't want to be chatting while I'm fighting. If I have time to type a mesage to my friends while I'm in combat, something has gone horribly wrong with the combat design (See WoW for some combt you can chat through)
D&D has always been about action combat at it's core. Pre-planning tatics has always been necessary, and with action combat, pre-planning comes into play again. With a turn based system, you can dive in, see what happens, then sit nice and still on your turn figuring out what to do. Talk about a snail's pace, and a recipe for a dull MMO. No, I'll take the fluid pace of action combat over running up to an enemy, declaring intent for combat, letting some virtual dice roll to determine who goes first, and then taking my time to play Math! The Fighting Game! (Do I have a high enough Str modifier to overcome his AC?? What about my reflex save?? Oh God, where did I put my spreadsheet???)
At least with an action based system, I can make use of things like Tumble skills (Acrobatics, like being able to jump higher to get around an obstacle an opponent can't), speed advantages (actually moving faster than my enemies, rather than having a higher number than them that let's me move first) and skill combos all in real time. I know the PNP D&D was exactly as I just described, but those are the limitations of a PNP system, which is why they don't work or even need to work in a system like an MMO.
Think about it. In a turn based game, it completely boils down to just the numbers in my character sheet. Rather than putting points into the Dodge skill simply to raise a flat %, I'd much rather points spent in Dodge to say, raise the duration of the invincibility frames, or let you dodge further in a single attempt for instance. The game comes alive in an action combat system, where with a turn based system, we get D&D with a fancy GUI, and far too many limitations to make the experience as enjoyable as the actual PNP experience.
/endrant
that's not true at all as most turn based games are based on tactics and strategy.. yes numbers matter but good tactics trump numbers... not to misunderstand I love action based games but many still love the slower strategic combat style.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
This will be a Hello Kitty Island Adventure Killer !
Every game I have ever played number crunches, does the math as you put it, hell there are hundreds if not thousands of web pages out there dedicated to just that, to name a few famous ones, Elitest jerk, Wowhead, hell even these forums do it, people posting build, what is better than what, its all number crunching, stats, charts it goes on and on, all math, unless you make a game that is 100% random you will always deal with stats.
I agree a game that pauses at the end of each turn is not as fluid as an mmo, but an mmo is not about fast pace action, go go go, thats a fps, and even those have voice chat so you can work as a team, MMO are all about chat/text about comunicating with your fellow man/woman/orc, they are made so you cant just solo the whole game, if you want that then play a single player game, but to take chat out of an MMO is just madness, that said I agree that in combat texting is not the best way to get a message across that is why more and more mmos are putting in voice chat, which is a double bladed sword, great for communication, bad for atmosphere, really takes you out of any feeling of attachement to a toon when you have an 8 year old that wont go to bed screaming in your ear on a raid.
I would like them to stay true to DnD rule with all the stats and things, but not turn based, DnD online managed this very well, I hope they build on this for Neverwinter.