Well, like I implied I don't play the game that much.
If you can't progress without microtransactions that is indeed a "no-no" in my opinion, but what are these items and are they so expensive that you couldn't reasonable be expected to have earned enough TP ingame at the level they become a requirement?
TP gains in game are a joke when a simple legendary legacy costs 700+ TPs.
As I said, for people like you and me, it's ok (even more for me with my lifetime account, I don't even pay expansions =P), but for the "normal" player who plays the crap out of the game, it becomes quickly expensive.
I haven't even reached Moria content yet, even tho that was the expansion I bougt to unlock most premium restrictions, so legendaries haven't really been a concern of mind.
I was under the impression tho, that the basic legendary system was free?
Does it cost TP even for subscribers, because "playing the crap out of it" is pretty much my treshold for when a F2P game can be expected to turn into "microtransaction or sub required".
I guess I just demand less from a F2P game. I certainly don't expect it to be free forever if I end up liking it so much that I tear through the content.
I see the F2P model more as a no barrier to entry, as opposed to "has to be free forever for everything". Which is why I tend to prefer the LotRO model over GW2.
You can get the game installed, check performance and if you like the controls and the setting/lore of the game. Play a large chunk and if you like it, it really only costs a few dollars to play it sub-free for a very long time. With a lot of below standard F2P options out there, not having to put money down upfront is a big incentive for many.
With the GW2 model, you are out 60 bucks, even if you un-install after a few hours. I guess those 60 dollars is what buys you are very reasonable and well done cash shop, but if you end up not liking it, that doesn't do you much good
Originally posted by Mannish I dont mind paying a sub fee for a game but GW2 is simply not worth it. Its not even worth the box price they are charging now. Game should be free download then free to play with cash shop.
Not gonna happen as they need the box sales to pay for the dev cost as well as CDN cost for patch/client downloads and data center hosting.
each major expansion will cost $$ so maybe they will offer the base game at a discounted price after the first expansion.
Aint Planetside 2 going to be a free download and play with cash shop?
With the GW2 model, you are out 60 bucks, even if you un-install after a few hours. I guess those 60 dollars is what buys you are very reasonable and well done cash shop, but if you end up not liking it, that doesn't do you much good
Actually, if you only played a "few hours" and didn't like it, ANet offers full refunds. Hell, people with a level 80 char and 100+ hours played managed to get a refund - which is pathetic and sad, but well...
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
You are assuming that the cash shop wont change, it will. When the revenue from the boxes start to dwindle then they will add more stuff to the cash shop to increase their revenue stream.
There's nothing in the GW1 shop I'm concerned about, I'm fine with that in the GW2 shop.
As for expanding upon what is in the gem shop; more boosters, costumes etc. Nothing that really concerns me.
I really doubt ANet will go down the semi pay-to-play route. They are the only developer who have run a B2P game before, with GW1, as opposed to the other publishers and developers who had to shoe-horn the cash shop into their games post launch.
TSW had it at launch and I really see no similarity in Funcoms and ANets attitude towards their cash shop.
The pretty high drop-rate of Black Lion Keys, transmutation stones, mystic coins and dyes doesn't imply to me, that the average player has to worry about teh future of the cash shop in GW2. At the end of its lifecycle, that's a different scenarion.
That's not to say it couldn't go in the wrong direction, but I'll give ANet the benefit of the doubt as they actually have presedence with sustaining a B2P game with expansions and a reasonable cash shop.
If GW2 ever went P2P I would never sub because GW2 fits in my game time perfectly, right now I'm playing TorchLight 2 & Skyrim and feel no pressure to go back because of wasted sub cash.
Originally posted by Mannish I dont mind paying a sub fee for a game but GW2 is simply not worth it. Its not even worth the box price they are charging now. Game should be free download then free to play with cash shop.
Not gonna happen as they need the box sales to pay for the dev cost as well as CDN cost for patch/client downloads and data center hosting.
each major expansion will cost $$ so maybe they will offer the base game at a discounted price after the first expansion.
Aint Planetside 2 going to be a free download and play with cash shop?
It is - but their cash shop will be a ton more aggressive as that is their sole source of $$
f2p games always have aggressive micro trans models.
b2p games are usually more relaxed near launch due to revenue coming in from box sales, and then it's up to them to keep pumping out b2p expansions to keep up their revenue stream. So you end up paying close to a monthly sub fee if there are couple of $60 expansions a year.
I think all mmos should be free download and free to play with a cash shop. The hard part is designing a good cash shop that does not give unfair advantage to people who are willing to spend more then others.
I said no because, essentially, I am already paying monthly via the cash shop. I keep it to 15 USD or less, but I do it monthly to support the game and to get some stuff I want for myself, like converting gems to gold for one.
So no, I wouldn't pay a sub as the game stands, BUT....if they removed the cash shop and I had no other way of supporting the developers, then yes I would pay a sub. That option wasn't on your survey, which having only two answers will have misleading results.
I don't regret paying 38 euros for the game because I can log in any time I want but for me personally it's too shallow to be worth a sub. Got bored really quickly but I'm sure I'll go back some day and try another class, maybe guardian.
If the game could keep up with Content releases monthly and not go the expansions route i would give it a thought. However i dont see them doing that any time soon.
Because i can. I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out. Logic every gamers worst enemy.
Originally posted by Rayshe If the game could keep up with Content releases monthly and not go the expansions route i would give it a thought. However i dont see them doing that any time soon.
umm they are going the free content route with paid expansions as well.. first content patch comes monday with the halloween event.. guess you missed this
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Originally posted by Yamota Pretty dumb poll if you ask me because if you ask if people would pay for something they currently get for free then obviously the answer would be no, for most people. Now if you instead asked if you would pay a sub. fee but in return they would get rid of the cash shop and have content on a monthly or bi-montlhy schedule then I think the outcome would be different.
What mmo puts out content on a monthly or even bi-monthly basis?
Old time MMORPGs did. AC 1 and EQ had regular content added over time but it was just an example. The point is what they added content over time and big content additions were in expansions. I much rather have that than a model which will add content based on you going to the cash shop.
I recently cancelled my subs in TERA and SWTOR. If any MMO wants my money these days, it has to be free or offer a one-time fee. If I were to play a new MMO now, I'd only consider those offering Lifetime subscriptions, Buy-to-Pay model without a sub, or F2P.
One of the major differences between B2P model and sub based MMORPGs is pretty simple.
In a sub based model, the purpose of the developer is to make you pay to play as long as possible. That's why those games have a ton of built in mandatory grinds the player has to go through to remain competitive. They can release content whenever they want, they are in no hurry, as long as the hamsters keep on running the threadmill. A raid with a few bosses will keep them busy 6+ months, and will therefore generate 6+ months of subscription income, how convenient! Not much effort on developer side, for a huge return. $15 per month to grind the same stuff over and over again because developers are lazy.
In a B2P MMORPG like GW2, they can't rely on those threadmills, since there's no subscription fee, so player would just run the hamster wheel for free. They are kind of forced to release regular quality content additions which contain elements the player will want to buy in order to generate income. There's no point in adding a raid that players will farm for 6+ months in GW2, that would be wasted developer time. This first content addition, halloween, is free with some elements sold in the cash shop, but I expect to see bigger paying expansion packs with a ton of content coming quite soon too.
I personally prefer paying $30 or even more (depending on quality/quantity) every few months and get new content often than to pay $15 per month for 6 months to be able to farm the same stuff over and over again.
When I play WoW now, I go through the new content once and cancel my account until the next content release, because I think grinding the same scripted mobs dozens of times to get some virtual purple item is not worth $15 per month.
You are looking at the worst possible scenario for sub. games and try to make that the norm. Where as in fact most sub. based MMORPGs I have played had a lot more content added to them then a F2P/B2P game.
And again you are making it like Gw2 is a B2P game only where as it is B2P+microtransactions which means that any content which they add to the game will have in mind to increase the revenue in the microtransaction area and not add quality content. Even paid expansions will add things with microtransaction in mind because that will be their longtime revenue stream.
So in other words in any games with cash shop, the long term gaming will be centered around the cash shop because that is the long term revenue stream where as in sub. based games they are free to add whatever makes the game more fun rather than what makes people go to the cash shop to have more fun.
+1 ^this^ many f2p players and b2p players look at things in a very narrow and not truely accurate or full view. Weither its becasue they really don't know due to limeted experience (ie how can someone whose never played a subscription mmo because they don't think any mmo is worth a subscription judge all subscription MMO's? ) or because it just doesn't support their every game should be f2p arguement is hard to say.
+1 ^this^ many f2p players and b2p players look at things in a very narrow and not truely accurate or full view. Weither its becasue they really don't know due to limeted experience (ie how can someone whose never played a subscription mmo because they don't think any mmo is worth a subscription judge all subscription MMO's? ) or because it just doesn't support their every game should be f2p arguement is hard to say.
GW2 is the first f2p/b2p game I really enjoy, and I've been playing MMOs in their graphical incarnation since UO beta (and text MUDs before). I usually dislike the f2p/b2p model. I also certainly have more varied MMORPG experience than many who post here, having played many games not centered on a end game gear grind, and many which aren't another EQ or WoW clone, so I'm definitely not just a noob with "limited experience".
So all your assumptions are, like most assumptions, totally wrong.
But please, be my guest and try again. Try to use your own facts this time, and not assumptions about people you don't know.
Respect, walk, what did you say? Respect, walk Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me? - PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
Originally posted by Aerowyn should of added a third option that said "I wouldn't pay a sub fee for any themepark MMO"
He want's to know if GW2 is worth the sub fee. Not other games, if you would never pay a sub fee for any theme park then by default you answer here is No.
The options that are given aren't enough to determine whether people feel GW2 is worth a sub or not.
Let's say that 70% of the voters say "no". This doesn't say whether people feel GW2 is worth a sub or not because maybe some people voted no because there isn't a game they feel is worth a sub yet, others might vote no because they feel that paying a sub is a stupid concept and no game ever will be worth a sub. The current options don't allow for enough information to answer the OP's question.
What?
Would You Pay $14.99 Monthly Fee for GuildWars2?
How can you make the question more simple or direct?
The question is simple and directed. How the results are spun is what is not simple or direct at all.
No, I hope GW2 breaks this model for more games but I doubt the sub model is dead. The sub fee was born because the need to maintain the equipement and bandwidth needed to run the game. It was very expensive it no longer is. Hell, at one time carriers were trying to push a pay per bit rate used model because they would have made more money. They don't any more because a fixed monthly fee is now a model that makes them more money, bandwith is cheaper.
People are used to a sub model for MMOs it's a business dream. There are many businesses that would love to sell a product and then have you pay a monthly fee afterward.
Time will tell but I believe they will be relying on expansions as much as if not more then the cash shops. It was true for GW1, its not there first rodeo. I will say I felt that the expansion in content of GW1 far out paced anything I was getting from previous sub based MMOs. Sub based MMOs have paid expansions too, that is where the big content updates come so what is my sub paying for again?
Nope. But I refuse to pay a sub for any game these days. It inevitably leads me to feeling an obligation to play.
Online games outside the MMO world manage to make money without subscriptions. Bandwidth isn't as expensive as it was 10 years ago. I'm happy to pay for content updates, but a sub puts me in the position of passively purchasing content I'll never use (e.g. SWTOR's legacy system, arenas in WoW, everything in TSW). I don't demand f2p necessarily -- I hate being sold to in game as much as I dislike feeling like I'm wasting money by not playing 5 hours a day. But b2p suits me just fine. I'll pay $60 for a good game, and more for DLC relevant to my playstyle. But I just can't justify paying the same price every four months when I could buy an entirely new game (or two) for the same money.
No. I probably wouldn't have bought the game if it had a monthly sub. I'm not interested in playing ANY game with a sub right now though. I enjoy GW2 and play it most evenings, so it's nothing against the game.
Comments
I haven't even reached Moria content yet, even tho that was the expansion I bougt to unlock most premium restrictions, so legendaries haven't really been a concern of mind.
I was under the impression tho, that the basic legendary system was free?
Does it cost TP even for subscribers, because "playing the crap out of it" is pretty much my treshold for when a F2P game can be expected to turn into "microtransaction or sub required".
I guess I just demand less from a F2P game. I certainly don't expect it to be free forever if I end up liking it so much that I tear through the content.
I see the F2P model more as a no barrier to entry, as opposed to "has to be free forever for everything". Which is why I tend to prefer the LotRO model over GW2.
You can get the game installed, check performance and if you like the controls and the setting/lore of the game. Play a large chunk and if you like it, it really only costs a few dollars to play it sub-free for a very long time. With a lot of below standard F2P options out there, not having to put money down upfront is a big incentive for many.
With the GW2 model, you are out 60 bucks, even if you un-install after a few hours. I guess those 60 dollars is what buys you are very reasonable and well done cash shop, but if you end up not liking it, that doesn't do you much good
Aint Planetside 2 going to be a free download and play with cash shop?
Actually, if you only played a "few hours" and didn't like it, ANet offers full refunds. Hell, people with a level 80 char and 100+ hours played managed to get a refund - which is pathetic and sad, but well...
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
There's nothing in the GW1 shop I'm concerned about, I'm fine with that in the GW2 shop.
As for expanding upon what is in the gem shop; more boosters, costumes etc. Nothing that really concerns me.
I really doubt ANet will go down the semi pay-to-play route. They are the only developer who have run a B2P game before, with GW1, as opposed to the other publishers and developers who had to shoe-horn the cash shop into their games post launch.
TSW had it at launch and I really see no similarity in Funcoms and ANets attitude towards their cash shop.
The pretty high drop-rate of Black Lion Keys, transmutation stones, mystic coins and dyes doesn't imply to me, that the average player has to worry about teh future of the cash shop in GW2. At the end of its lifecycle, that's a different scenarion.
That's not to say it couldn't go in the wrong direction, but I'll give ANet the benefit of the doubt as they actually have presedence with sustaining a B2P game with expansions and a reasonable cash shop.
I think all mmos should be free download and free to play with a cash shop. The hard part is designing a good cash shop that does not give unfair advantage to people who are willing to spend more then others.
I said no because, essentially, I am already paying monthly via the cash shop. I keep it to 15 USD or less, but I do it monthly to support the game and to get some stuff I want for myself, like converting gems to gold for one.
So no, I wouldn't pay a sub as the game stands, BUT....if they removed the cash shop and I had no other way of supporting the developers, then yes I would pay a sub. That option wasn't on your survey, which having only two answers will have misleading results.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Because i can.
I'm Hopeful For Every Game, Until the Fan Boys Attack My Games. Then the Knives Come Out.
Logic every gamers worst enemy.
umm they are going the free content route with paid expansions as well.. first content patch comes monday with the halloween event.. guess you missed this
https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/colin-johanson-outlines-guild-wars-2-live-game-development/
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Rift and TSW put out content constantly as well
Not a chance. I wouldn't have even bought it if it had a sub.
I hate endgame in GW2. It is not worth a sub at any price to me.
+1 ^this^ many f2p players and b2p players look at things in a very narrow and not truely accurate or full view. Weither its becasue they really don't know due to limeted experience (ie how can someone whose never played a subscription mmo because they don't think any mmo is worth a subscription judge all subscription MMO's? ) or because it just doesn't support their every game should be f2p arguement is hard to say.
GW2 is the first f2p/b2p game I really enjoy, and I've been playing MMOs in their graphical incarnation since UO beta (and text MUDs before). I usually dislike the f2p/b2p model. I also certainly have more varied MMORPG experience than many who post here, having played many games not centered on a end game gear grind, and many which aren't another EQ or WoW clone, so I'm definitely not just a noob with "limited experience".
So all your assumptions are, like most assumptions, totally wrong.
But please, be my guest and try again. Try to use your own facts this time, and not assumptions about people you don't know.
Respect, walk
Are you talkin' to me? Are you talkin' to me?
- PANTERA at HELLFEST 2023
The question is simple and directed. How the results are spun is what is not simple or direct at all.
No, I hope GW2 breaks this model for more games but I doubt the sub model is dead. The sub fee was born because the need to maintain the equipement and bandwidth needed to run the game. It was very expensive it no longer is. Hell, at one time carriers were trying to push a pay per bit rate used model because they would have made more money. They don't any more because a fixed monthly fee is now a model that makes them more money, bandwith is cheaper.
People are used to a sub model for MMOs it's a business dream. There are many businesses that would love to sell a product and then have you pay a monthly fee afterward.
Time will tell but I believe they will be relying on expansions as much as if not more then the cash shops. It was true for GW1, its not there first rodeo. I will say I felt that the expansion in content of GW1 far out paced anything I was getting from previous sub based MMOs. Sub based MMOs have paid expansions too, that is where the big content updates come so what is my sub paying for again?
Online games outside the MMO world manage to make money without subscriptions. Bandwidth isn't as expensive as it was 10 years ago. I'm happy to pay for content updates, but a sub puts me in the position of passively purchasing content I'll never use (e.g. SWTOR's legacy system, arenas in WoW, everything in TSW). I don't demand f2p necessarily -- I hate being sold to in game as much as I dislike feeling like I'm wasting money by not playing 5 hours a day. But b2p suits me just fine. I'll pay $60 for a good game, and more for DLC relevant to my playstyle. But I just can't justify paying the same price every four months when I could buy an entirely new game (or two) for the same money.
rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar
Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D