Not to mention Anarchy Online, EVE, DAOC, Ryzom, all still have Subs. And there is a game my kids play. Wizard101. That's a sub game and it's bigger than you think.
most of these are still around and more or less have niche players who pay.
All you people who say "I'm done with subs" I say, all it will take is one mind blowingly awsome MMO to grace the scene and you'll be back.
I think you're missing the point, Geez. Those of us who are done with subs are saying so because there's one mind blowingly awesome MMO gracing the scene now that requires no sub. GW2 is the reason subs are dead to many of us.
No, I'm not misleading the point. That's exactly what I'm saying. But there seems to be 2 separate camps with in the "I'm not paying a sub" movement. One says none of these games are worth anything, the other says, the model is dead and a scam. I'm speaking to the 2nd. You look at what Trion has done with Rift. They've been fairly impressive in justifying a sub for those who enjoy their game. But it's also not an absolute. Because at the same time, Funcom has done NOTHING in years to earn the sub fee it charges for Anarchy. That's why I said, there needs to be something offered that's worth it. So, while there are examples that could be reasonably called a scam, it doesn't mean the model itself is.
well GS was made to support the not having a sub fee.. you'd have to assume if they had a sub fee they wouldn't have this sort of GS
I think there's no real fear of anet 'needing' a fee. Gem shop plus player laziness...yep, they'll be fine.
Isn't it funny how polls are most often used on this website, yet no one seems to suspect them?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
If a game is a really good mmo, I'm all for paying a subscription fee, as a matter of fact, I'd rather play a good sandbox game that has a subscription fee, than some boring free to play themepark.
GW2 was tailor made for Free to Play mmo themepark, so no, not at this point, I would not pay a subscription fee for it. I haven't played it in over a week. Got to 80, had done all the dungeons, got all exotics, have plenty of gold, 3 maxed trades and nothing to do, since I don't care for cosmetic gear grinding, and WvsW ques are rediculously long with 1-2 hour waits. GW2 is one of those games you play once in a while along with a good subscription game (FOR ME) Not one of those games that's a main game I stick with for years every day.
It's heavily instanced, the dungeons are boring, the WvsW is bland, there's not much to do other than pve or pvp in the game, there are no extra things to do such as fishing, housing, exporation, etc. Games like Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, DAOC, those back in the day before they aged were perfect examples of games that warrant a subscription fee, they were real mmos, to me.
If a game is a really good mmo, I'm all for paying a subscription fee, as a matter of fact, I'd rather play a good sandbox game that has a subscription fee, than some boring free to play themepark.
GW2 was tailor made for Free to Play mmo themepark, so no, not at this point, I would not pay a subscription fee for it.
It's heavily instanced, the dungeons are boring, the WvsW is bland, there's not much to do other than pve or pvp in the game, there are no extra things to do such as fishing, housing, exporation, etc. Games like Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, DAOC, those back in the day before they aged were perfect examples of games that warrant a subscription fee, they were real mmos, to me.
WvW bland?! You're killing me! Heh... I've become hooked on it. Oh crap, it's Friday! RESET time! Tonight's going to be freaking insane for Jade Quarry and the whole Tier 1 battle. SBI will undoubtedly put up some great competition, and the third server being added to the mix (forget which one) will be a wildcard ready I'm sure to add to the chaos.
I kind of do with there was fishing. They could work fishing into the system amazingly I think... changing your skills when a fishing pole is equipped, crafting poles, more cooking recipes, etc. Housing is being worked on, I'm definitely curious to see how that works out. One delay, I'm sure, is that housing is undoutedly racial. Exploration... we haz exploration.
I would still pay a subscription if a game was good enough. I am planning on trying FFXIV: ARR for a month when it comes out.
As for Guild Wars 2, no. There's not enough to content to make me feel like I got my money's worth over the course of a month--after hitting 80, anyway. I would have used my included 30-day subscription upon initial purchase, gotten to 80, did a few dungeons, and unsubscribed.
i still fail to see why you want a sub fee its like shouting here have my money for nothing
what has any mmo given the players for the sub fee
i still have yet to see anything thats worth $15 dollers for any free updates let alone the months you have to play and pay where you dont recive anything
when you look at game they roughly cost 3 times a sub fee so every 3 months i would expect a expansion the size of a complete game do you get that much content added every 3 months you dont get that much added if you took all updates and addedd them all together
Decent and timely customer service and support..... To me that is a big one. I had to wait anywhere from several days to over a week for various issues with GW2. To me that isn't acceptable. I understand they don't have the revenue stream to support a decent CS team, but I would be willing to pay for it. This is just one thing.....
Dont really see how that makes a difference wether a game is sub or not. theres tons of sub games out there that offer much worse customer service & support. Its specific to each company, not a payment model. Ive had my share of bad experiences in sub games and good experiences in F2P / B2P games.
Its like saying youre automatically going to get worse service at a cheap fast food place than a normal restaraunt, JUST because you paid more for it. When price has no relation. Its all about the company itself and their staff.
Originally posted by Alber_gamer
It'd be the first single player game of history with a sub.
It's fun to play it through once and try out some classes and WvWvW, but to me it's not worth a sub.
And people wonder why we pick on the ridiculous trolls...
Calling it a single player game while also mentioning WvWvW (which consists almost entirely of fighting OTHER PEOPLE). I really cant think of any better words to describe this than: Epic Fail.
Tell me what sub game has worse customer service? ArenaNet is famous for it. I have used CS in almost every game I have played online, and the CS associated with GW and GW2 is the worst. It doesn't mean the games are bad, just they are lacking in the support department.
No. The game doesnt keep my attention long enough to justify a subscription fee if it had one.
***Heidi Montag is stalking the Raving Rabbid! Kate Beckinsale is not pleased!***
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care. Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
If a game is a really good mmo, I'm all for paying a subscription fee, as a matter of fact, I'd rather play a good sandbox game that has a subscription fee, than some boring free to play themepark.
GW2 was tailor made for Free to Play mmo themepark, so no, not at this point, I would not pay a subscription fee for it. I haven't played it in over a week. Got to 80, had done all the dungeons, got all exotics, have plenty of gold, 3 maxed trades and nothing to do, since I don't care for cosmetic gear grinding, and WvsW ques are rediculously long with 1-2 hour waits. GW2 is one of those games you play once in a while along with a good subscription game (FOR ME) Not one of those games that's a main game I stick with for years every day.
It's heavily instanced, the dungeons are boring, the WvsW is bland, there's not much to do other than pve or pvp in the game, there are no extra things to do such as fishing, housing, exporation, etc. Games like Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, DAOC, those back in the day before they aged were perfect examples of games that warrant a subscription fee, they were real mmos, to me.
Add the letters SWG to that list of games that warrant a sub fee and you have a post just oozing with win imo
I would not pay a sub for GW2. While I'm playing and enjoying the game a lot, I just don't think there's enough there to warrant a sub fee right now. I bought the game for what I felt it was meant to be, a casual side game where the focus was the leveling in PvE and the bread and butter of the game for the lasting appeal was the PvP. I don't PvP much, so I knew my interest could be limited at the end. I've been playing ultra casually, so I only have a level 51, so I expect to get a good amount of time in with it yet.
It's more just that IMO there hasn't been a game good enough that's come out since WoW that was deserving of a sub fee. If you were to iron out all the bugs and everything of Vanguard, that would have been close. Trion is doing a very good job with Rift, but from what I've seen and what I played of it, the constant updates were needed because there just was not enough content there to begin with. If it had been there to begin with and not another content patch for 8 months to a year, I still think that sub fee would be well paid for. The problem I had with Rift, and most other games, is that they were just too linear and played more like a single player / co-op game than the original MMOs that were so much different than anything out there which is why they were able to charge that sub fee.
The experience you got from an MMO was so much different than any other genre it was worth the sub fee and probably more. I'd be more than willing to pay for another MMO like that, but I don't think I'd pay for another linear, solo based MMO that you can only tell you're playing with actual other people because of the area chat spam and the occasional dungeon group.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others... Currently Playing: GW2
Originally posted by VassagoMael You either need a monthly fee and free expansions or no sub and pay expanions. Any other way and you are ripping people off.
I don't think this is true at all. There are a lot more costs to playing on their servers for something like this than what the box fee could recover. You're paying for server upkeep, maintenance, bandwith, people's wages as they do said upkeep, develop new content and patch the existing as well as add smaller updates into the existing. Still need that steady stream of revenue coming in for all of that plus I'm sure there's more than I know about.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others... Currently Playing: GW2
Not because I think GW2 isn't worth it - I love the game. I don't find it to be flawless, but for me, right now, it's the best thing available. And the only important metric to me is if I'm having fun with it - which I am.
I wouldn't pay a sub for it, or for any game right now, for a simple reason: Time.
I only get an hour or two to play a day, if I'm lucky. Sure, a $15/mo sub is still cheap entertainment, but when I'm on a sub I feel like I need to be getting my money's worth of playtime in - otherwise I should cancel the sub. Without a sub, I don't feel the slightest bit guilty if I only play for 15 minutes today and not at all over the next week - I just play it when I get time, or as I feel like it.
It's totally psychological, and not entirely rational - I admit. But it's the truth.
That, and GW1, GW2, and several pretty decent F2P games have convinced me that I don't need to pay a sub fee to find something entertaining. I don't mind if a F2P only entertains me for a few weeks (or days) - I have no money invested into it, so I don't feel bad if I don't get to max level, or try all the dungeons. I've spent the last couple of years getting out of the subscription game market and exploring what's available out there. GW2 is my favorite so far, but it isn't the only one that I've had a lot of fun with.
A game would have to be really compelling, and I would have to have the time to devote to it, before I would go back to a subscription again.
Originally posted by VassagoMael You either need a monthly fee and free expansions or no sub and pay expanions. Any other way and you are ripping people off.
I don't think this is true at all. There are a lot more costs to playing on their servers for something like this than what the box fee could recover. You're paying for server upkeep, maintenance, bandwith, people's wages as they do said upkeep, develop new content and patch the existing as well as add smaller updates into the existing. Still need that steady stream of revenue coming in for all of that plus I'm sure there's more than I know about.
Nope monthly fee is just a con game ...produce the content and I'll pay for the expansion
I still don't understand how people call this more solo than other themepark MMOs. I am constantly playing with everyone I see and I talk to them, random RP with, join them to go tackle a skill challenge or something they havent been able to do on their own. Even make friends with them.
I think people need to stop expecting a game to force interactions and just start doing it. You're already grouped with everyone in your zone basically!
I still don't understand how people call this more solo than other themepark MMOs. I am constantly playing with everyone I see and I talk to them, random RP with, join them to go tackle a skill challenge or something they havent been able to do on their own. Even make friends with them.
I think people need to stop expecting a game to force interactions and just start doing it. You're already grouped with everyone in your zone basically!
"I'm not forced to wait and be like 'Looking for group, quest lvl 12 need help.' rather than 'Okay so we don't need to stop and ask we can just play aside each other.'' That translates to the whole GW2 is solo to those that claim it is.
Because what's highlighted in green is what those stuborn people will never do.
Also someone is of course going to say it's "quiet." Most the time they are the ones not talking to others or not responding them damn selves.
Then you have those that say this because some GW2 fans on this game said the same shit bout TSW, same shit about SWTOR, and the same shit about other games.
Now someone is going to defend thosewho claim GW2 is solo because "I never have to group unless it's a dungeon." But not thinking that okay I'm really not soloing this mob if someone else is attacking it as well aiding me, because common sense like that does not exist in their world what so ever.
"Oh it's still solo because even though we attacking we aint said shit to each other and he's not in a party." Yet in forced parties you are like this a lot "....thanks for helping *leaves group to later repeat*."
Now someone is going to then want to say "Well it's not like that because I always talk." You can infact do the same in GW2.
"But I'm not forced!!!!!" *Presses the replay button*
Anyways you guys be easy and enjoy life, peace.
Tl;DR - I agree with the person I quoted.
Forgot my on topic - I think I already stated my anwer but honestly no game to me is worth a monthly sub, don't give a fuck about the amount of content and how good it is. I did pay extra 15 though for TSW because I was waiting for some console games to come out and/or GW2, bored as hell before august(for me).
Now if say GW2 was coming out more than 2 months away from TSW, I just would have never bought it to pass time.
Though on the brightside TSW isnt a WoW clone nor is GW2, both are good but honstly like for me no game including them are really worth 15 dollars a month, [period]. (Luckily though I had money to blow)
I'm still bummed because really Funcom charged automactically because I didn't play much after that month, actually about 3 times that month, was to busy in GW2 beta tests and other r/l things .
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Honestly No mmo in recent years has been worth a sub fee, mostly because they are all just clones of the same game at their core (World fo warcraft). Only mmo's I'd actually slightly considering worth subbing too are FF11 and or FF14, since neither of them are biliant wow-like mmorpgs.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Comments
No, I'm not misleading the point. That's exactly what I'm saying. But there seems to be 2 separate camps with in the "I'm not paying a sub" movement. One says none of these games are worth anything, the other says, the model is dead and a scam. I'm speaking to the 2nd. You look at what Trion has done with Rift. They've been fairly impressive in justifying a sub for those who enjoy their game. But it's also not an absolute. Because at the same time, Funcom has done NOTHING in years to earn the sub fee it charges for Anarchy. That's why I said, there needs to be something offered that's worth it. So, while there are examples that could be reasonably called a scam, it doesn't mean the model itself is.
I think there's no real fear of anet 'needing' a fee. Gem shop plus player laziness...yep, they'll be fine.
Isn't it funny how polls are most often used on this website, yet no one seems to suspect them?
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
If a game is a really good mmo, I'm all for paying a subscription fee, as a matter of fact, I'd rather play a good sandbox game that has a subscription fee, than some boring free to play themepark.
GW2 was tailor made for Free to Play mmo themepark, so no, not at this point, I would not pay a subscription fee for it. I haven't played it in over a week. Got to 80, had done all the dungeons, got all exotics, have plenty of gold, 3 maxed trades and nothing to do, since I don't care for cosmetic gear grinding, and WvsW ques are rediculously long with 1-2 hour waits. GW2 is one of those games you play once in a while along with a good subscription game (FOR ME) Not one of those games that's a main game I stick with for years every day.
It's heavily instanced, the dungeons are boring, the WvsW is bland, there's not much to do other than pve or pvp in the game, there are no extra things to do such as fishing, housing, exporation, etc. Games like Asheron's Call, Ultima Online, DAOC, those back in the day before they aged were perfect examples of games that warrant a subscription fee, they were real mmos, to me.
What happens when you log off your characters????.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
Dark Age of Camelot
WvW bland?! You're killing me! Heh... I've become hooked on it. Oh crap, it's Friday! RESET time! Tonight's going to be freaking insane for Jade Quarry and the whole Tier 1 battle. SBI will undoubtedly put up some great competition, and the third server being added to the mix (forget which one) will be a wildcard ready I'm sure to add to the chaos.
I kind of do with there was fishing. They could work fishing into the system amazingly I think... changing your skills when a fishing pole is equipped, crafting poles, more cooking recipes, etc. Housing is being worked on, I'm definitely curious to see how that works out. One delay, I'm sure, is that housing is undoutedly racial. Exploration... we haz exploration.
Oderint, dum metuant.
I would still pay a subscription if a game was good enough. I am planning on trying FFXIV: ARR for a month when it comes out.
As for Guild Wars 2, no. There's not enough to content to make me feel like I got my money's worth over the course of a month--after hitting 80, anyway. I would have used my included 30-day subscription upon initial purchase, gotten to 80, did a few dungeons, and unsubscribed.
Tell me what sub game has worse customer service? ArenaNet is famous for it. I have used CS in almost every game I have played online, and the CS associated with GW and GW2 is the worst. It doesn't mean the games are bad, just they are lacking in the support department.
My theme song.
No. The game doesnt keep my attention long enough to justify a subscription fee if it had one.
***Heidi Montag is stalking the Raving Rabbid! Kate Beckinsale is not pleased!***
All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
Currently playing Real Life..
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Add the letters SWG to that list of games that warrant a sub fee and you have a post just oozing with win imo
Driz
I would not pay a sub for GW2. While I'm playing and enjoying the game a lot, I just don't think there's enough there to warrant a sub fee right now. I bought the game for what I felt it was meant to be, a casual side game where the focus was the leveling in PvE and the bread and butter of the game for the lasting appeal was the PvP. I don't PvP much, so I knew my interest could be limited at the end. I've been playing ultra casually, so I only have a level 51, so I expect to get a good amount of time in with it yet.
It's more just that IMO there hasn't been a game good enough that's come out since WoW that was deserving of a sub fee. If you were to iron out all the bugs and everything of Vanguard, that would have been close. Trion is doing a very good job with Rift, but from what I've seen and what I played of it, the constant updates were needed because there just was not enough content there to begin with. If it had been there to begin with and not another content patch for 8 months to a year, I still think that sub fee would be well paid for. The problem I had with Rift, and most other games, is that they were just too linear and played more like a single player / co-op game than the original MMOs that were so much different than anything out there which is why they were able to charge that sub fee.
The experience you got from an MMO was so much different than any other genre it was worth the sub fee and probably more. I'd be more than willing to pay for another MMO like that, but I don't think I'd pay for another linear, solo based MMO that you can only tell you're playing with actual other people because of the area chat spam and the occasional dungeon group.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2
Nytlok Sylas
80 Sylvari Ranger
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
I don't think this is true at all. There are a lot more costs to playing on their servers for something like this than what the box fee could recover. You're paying for server upkeep, maintenance, bandwith, people's wages as they do said upkeep, develop new content and patch the existing as well as add smaller updates into the existing. Still need that steady stream of revenue coming in for all of that plus I'm sure there's more than I know about.
Played: EQ1 (10 Years), Guild Wars, Rift, TERA
Tried: EQ2, Vanguard, Lord of the Rings Online, Dungeons and Dragons Online, Runes of Magic and countless others...
Currently Playing: GW2
Nytlok Sylas
80 Sylvari Ranger
To the OP:
No.
Not because I think GW2 isn't worth it - I love the game. I don't find it to be flawless, but for me, right now, it's the best thing available. And the only important metric to me is if I'm having fun with it - which I am.
I wouldn't pay a sub for it, or for any game right now, for a simple reason: Time.
I only get an hour or two to play a day, if I'm lucky. Sure, a $15/mo sub is still cheap entertainment, but when I'm on a sub I feel like I need to be getting my money's worth of playtime in - otherwise I should cancel the sub. Without a sub, I don't feel the slightest bit guilty if I only play for 15 minutes today and not at all over the next week - I just play it when I get time, or as I feel like it.
It's totally psychological, and not entirely rational - I admit. But it's the truth.
That, and GW1, GW2, and several pretty decent F2P games have convinced me that I don't need to pay a sub fee to find something entertaining. I don't mind if a F2P only entertains me for a few weeks (or days) - I have no money invested into it, so I don't feel bad if I don't get to max level, or try all the dungeons. I've spent the last couple of years getting out of the subscription game market and exploring what's available out there. GW2 is my favorite so far, but it isn't the only one that I've had a lot of fun with.
A game would have to be really compelling, and I would have to have the time to devote to it, before I would go back to a subscription again.
gw2 is the reason that i won't pay a monthly sub for any game.
look at all the sub games like tsw or swtor. devs talking about their awesome ideas and how they will improve it and nothing happens.
but the problem is the mindset of most players aswell. aslong as there are enough tards paying even lifetime subs (rofl) the devs will go on milking.
Nope monthly fee is just a con game ...produce the content and I'll pay for the expansion
I still don't understand how people call this more solo than other themepark MMOs. I am constantly playing with everyone I see and I talk to them, random RP with, join them to go tackle a skill challenge or something they havent been able to do on their own. Even make friends with them.
I think people need to stop expecting a game to force interactions and just start doing it. You're already grouped with everyone in your zone basically!
"I'm not forced to wait and be like 'Looking for group, quest lvl 12 need help.' rather than 'Okay so we don't need to stop and ask we can just play aside each other.'' That translates to the whole GW2 is solo to those that claim it is.
Because what's highlighted in green is what those stuborn people will never do.
Also someone is of course going to say it's "quiet." Most the time they are the ones not talking to others or not responding them damn selves.
Then you have those that say this because some GW2 fans on this game said the same shit bout TSW, same shit about SWTOR, and the same shit about other games.
Now someone is going to defend thosewho claim GW2 is solo because "I never have to group unless it's a dungeon." But not thinking that okay I'm really not soloing this mob if someone else is attacking it as well aiding me, because common sense like that does not exist in their world what so ever.
"Oh it's still solo because even though we attacking we aint said shit to each other and he's not in a party." Yet in forced parties you are like this a lot "....thanks for helping *leaves group to later repeat*."
Now someone is going to then want to say "Well it's not like that because I always talk." You can infact do the same in GW2.
"But I'm not forced!!!!!" *Presses the replay button*
Anyways you guys be easy and enjoy life, peace.
Tl;DR - I agree with the person I quoted.
Forgot my on topic - I think I already stated my anwer but honestly no game to me is worth a monthly sub, don't give a fuck about the amount of content and how good it is. I did pay extra 15 though for TSW because I was waiting for some console games to come out and/or GW2, bored as hell before august(for me).
Now if say GW2 was coming out more than 2 months away from TSW, I just would have never bought it to pass time.
Though on the brightside TSW isnt a WoW clone nor is GW2, both are good but honstly like for me no game including them are really worth 15 dollars a month, [period]. (Luckily though I had money to blow)
I'm still bummed because really Funcom charged automactically because I didn't play much after that month, actually about 3 times that month, was to busy in GW2 beta tests and other r/l things
.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Being a pessimist is a win-win pattern of thinking. If you're a pessimist (I'll admit that I am!) you're either:
A. Proven right (if something bad happens)
or
B. Pleasantly surprised (if something good happens)
Either way, you can't lose! Try it out sometime!