My serious question is, provided you're not PVPing 24/7 for tokens, what is the highest achievable stat (we'll go with AR, attack rating, in this case) that you can achieve through drops from just normal dungeons? From elite dungeons?
Reason why I'm curious is beacuse I've seen some pretty interesting requests in "LFG" chat. I understand people wanting to have an easy or quick run through a dungeon, but I've seen people turned down because "OMG, only 2.5k AR? Not high enough for elite."
I myself have been turned down for NMs because I didn't have 4k AR. Like I said, I can understand wanting a quick and easy run for bullion at the least, but it seems to be a growing trend.
*edited for some spelling.
And this is why i hate it when MMOs have things like DPS meters & gear ratings.
What you are describing is one of the reasons I left the game a few months back. Sorry to see that hasn't changed. Basically, what people are requesting are ratings that can only be achieved by either someone putting all of their gear into that rating (and as such having no health), or someone who has already completed the dungeon enough to already have the gear rewards you get from running them.
The biggest joke, is that these ratings aren't essential to completing elites or NM mode dungeons. Furthermore, some of the least successful groups I've had when running these dungeons have come from people who put all their gear into meeting that arbitrary ratings number to the neglect of all their other stats. Especially when it comes to NM dungeons.
To have smooth (and quick) runs for the dungeons in TSW you don't actually need AR anywhere near that high. Last I played, I was able to do elites just fine w/ only 1.8-2.3k AR, and NMs with 2.8-3k AR. I may not do as much DPS as the people w/ 4k AR, but i could at least take some hits before dying. It's really dissapointing that requirements are still so skewed towards the upper end of the spectrum.
You might have better luck trying to find a decent cabal who doesn't rely on inflated requirements as a crutch for their own lack of ability.
AR/HR are not gear scores! 0-3k AR/HR = 0-680 Combat power 3k-4k AR/HR 80 Combat power, these so called elitists are not very smart. The hard cap on AR/HR begins at 3k. Better to go the way the game was intended to be played 70/30, or keep ending up in the well way to early repeatedly, I have seen this happen once too many times with people not gearing for HP.
My serious question is, provided you're not PVPing 24/7 for tokens, what is the highest achievable stat (we'll go with AR, attack rating, in this case) that you can achieve through drops from just normal dungeons? From elite dungeons?
Reason why I'm curious is beacuse I've seen some pretty interesting requests in "LFG" chat. I understand people wanting to have an easy or quick run through a dungeon, but I've seen people turned down because "OMG, only 2.5k AR? Not high enough for elite."
I myself have been turned down for NMs because I didn't have 4k AR. Like I said, I can understand wanting a quick and easy run for bullion at the least, but it seems to be a growing trend.
*edited for some spelling.
And this is why i hate it when MMOs have things like DPS meters & gear ratings.
What you are describing is one of the reasons I left the game a few months back. Sorry to see that hasn't changed. Basically, what people are requesting are ratings that can only be achieved by either someone putting all of their gear into that rating (and as such having no health), or someone who has already completed the dungeon enough to already have the gear rewards you get from running them.
The biggest joke, is that these ratings aren't essential to completing elites or NM mode dungeons. Furthermore, some of the least successful groups I've had when running these dungeons have come from people who put all their gear into meeting that arbitrary ratings number to the neglect of all their other stats. Especially when it comes to NM dungeons.
To have smooth (and quick) runs for the dungeons in TSW you don't actually need AR anywhere near that high. Last I played, I was able to do elites just fine w/ only 1.8-2.3k AR, and NMs with 2.8-3k AR. I may not do as much DPS as the people w/ 4k AR, but i could at least take some hits before dying. It's really dissapointing that requirements are still so skewed towards the upper end of the spectrum.
You might have better luck trying to find a decent cabal who doesn't rely on inflated requirements as a crutch for their own lack of ability.
I'm not defending elitism here but when you are pugging what other stats can you use to evaluate if a player is going to be able to contribute successfully to the run? I can ask if they have completed all the encounters before, yet people blatantly lie about that and end up wasting other peoples time.
Its not that hard to start up a group of your own and you can specifiy whatever criteria you want. I often get the impression that many people playing the game want to take absolutely no responsiblity in it but complain when everthing isn't handed to them on a silver platter. I agree though, players should find a cabal and stop expecting instant gratification.
The thing is, most encounters tent to end up as blantant dps races at Endgame. Don't have the dps? Fail. They obviously balanced average builds for the DPS requirements,
so builds do matter. Sadly it's more like 20% build - 80% gear. That's kidna awkward for players just getting done with the story content and regular instance modes.
You get all the beauty of build expirimenting, learn the mechanics over your playtime and then face a wall of gear requirements. Full stop, DERP.
The most annoying fact is, you need to grind out 3 sets just so you can mix and match and do what TSW praises. BUILD CLASSES. The strong emphasis on item stats for character strength totally undermines the whole skill / group design idea.
The gear stat requirements detroy any freedom you enjoyed when mixing or fast switching "builds". (You get blue and green items by the dozend + assembling)
Suddently you have one healer and one tank and three dps, why? No one likes hybrids in blue / green ql10 gear. Swtich fast to help out with healing? Good joke.
The elitism can get pretty bad. I had QL 9 gear at the time, and tried to get a group for Inferno/Hotel dungeon, which is a dungeon that really only requires QL 3/4 gear. However, when I advertised that I wanted a group, I also advertised that it was my first trip in there. I got no hits. So, even though they would have a god-like (for this dungeon) character with them, no one could be bothered to explain the fights, and I could get no groups. So, I let my sub lapse and if I hear that the elitism has at least diminished I'll be back.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
The elitism can get pretty bad. I had QL 9 gear at the time, and tried to get a group for Inferno/Hotel dungeon, which is a dungeon that really only requires QL 3/4 gear. However, when I advertised that I wanted a group, I also advertised that it was my first trip in there. I got no hits. So, even though they would have a god-like (for this dungeon) character with them, no one could be bothered to explain the fights, and I could get no groups. So, I let my sub lapse and if I hear that the elitism has at least diminished I'll be back.
Originally posted by Skooma2
Been playing since Day 1 and am now completely bored by it. I, like a lot of people, prefer to play by myself
We are a cabal that has 4 solid members, and a few available a night or two a week, meaning we are almost always getting at least one DPS PUG. So we are picky.
With that said, sometimes we advertise and many of nights we do as new players welcome to join. You basically just got yourself every purple drop that drops, we have it all. We need bullion. Once your out of the first 3 NMS (Polaris, DW, and Hell Raised) your going to get people being picky about a lot of stuff. Expect it or find your own cabal and friends to have your own group. When you deal with PUGS expect elite attitudes.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Originally posted by ShakyMo It's attracted the ex EQ / ex wow because its now too "noob" friendly crowd.
Unfortunately the devs listened to them during beta
WoW maybe,EQ tho it would have to been hard core raiders then..An that should say it all really.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant (1933)
When I started doing NM, I created my own teams and said "beginner run" in the add. It was fun to do the dungeons with other beginners even if you only managed to get 2-3 bosses down the first times. I completly understand that some want to recruit only players with xxx stats.
Personally I try not to create silly rules on what you need, and never post AR reqs. I just leave it up to the player to decide if he's ready for it. Still some players do take advantage of this freedom and that's why many are strict. I remeber I did some beginner Ankh runs. Didnt state any AR or anything, but said "reasonale gear", still one guy showed up in full blue ql 10 elite gear for it.
I expect players to atleast have a some epics, perhaps full 10.0 epics before coming to a harder dungeon than the first NM's. Or atleast good knowledge of the fights if your on a alt.
Comments
And this is why i hate it when MMOs have things like DPS meters & gear ratings.
What you are describing is one of the reasons I left the game a few months back. Sorry to see that hasn't changed. Basically, what people are requesting are ratings that can only be achieved by either someone putting all of their gear into that rating (and as such having no health), or someone who has already completed the dungeon enough to already have the gear rewards you get from running them.
The biggest joke, is that these ratings aren't essential to completing elites or NM mode dungeons. Furthermore, some of the least successful groups I've had when running these dungeons have come from people who put all their gear into meeting that arbitrary ratings number to the neglect of all their other stats. Especially when it comes to NM dungeons.
To have smooth (and quick) runs for the dungeons in TSW you don't actually need AR anywhere near that high. Last I played, I was able to do elites just fine w/ only 1.8-2.3k AR, and NMs with 2.8-3k AR. I may not do as much DPS as the people w/ 4k AR, but i could at least take some hits before dying. It's really dissapointing that requirements are still so skewed towards the upper end of the spectrum.
You might have better luck trying to find a decent cabal who doesn't rely on inflated requirements as a crutch for their own lack of ability.
AR/HR are not gear scores! 0-3k AR/HR = 0-680 Combat power 3k-4k AR/HR 80 Combat power, these so called elitists are not very smart. The hard cap on AR/HR begins at 3k. Better to go the way the game was intended to be played 70/30, or keep ending up in the well way to early repeatedly, I have seen this happen once too many times with people not gearing for HP.
http://forums.thesecretworld.com/showthread.php?t=59615 is where diminishing returns begin for stats in TSW.
I'm not defending elitism here but when you are pugging what other stats can you use to evaluate if a player is going to be able to contribute successfully to the run? I can ask if they have completed all the encounters before, yet people blatantly lie about that and end up wasting other peoples time.
Its not that hard to start up a group of your own and you can specifiy whatever criteria you want. I often get the impression that many people playing the game want to take absolutely no responsiblity in it but complain when everthing isn't handed to them on a silver platter. I agree though, players should find a cabal and stop expecting instant gratification.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-sJDGCXC9nII/UNWcazUfoKI/AAAAAAAAAKU/rfvNCMdQrz8/s1600/Banner8.jpg
The thing is, most encounters tent to end up as blantant dps races at Endgame. Don't have the dps? Fail. They obviously balanced average builds for the DPS requirements,
so builds do matter. Sadly it's more like 20% build - 80% gear.
That's kidna awkward for players just getting done with the story content and regular instance modes.
You get all the beauty of build expirimenting, learn the mechanics over your playtime and then face a wall of gear requirements. Full stop, DERP.
The most annoying fact is, you need to grind out 3 sets just so you can mix and match and do what TSW praises. BUILD CLASSES. The strong emphasis on item stats for character strength totally undermines the whole skill / group design idea.
The gear stat requirements detroy any freedom you enjoyed when mixing or fast switching "builds".
(You get blue and green items by the dozend + assembling)
Suddently you have one healer and one tank and three dps, why? No one likes hybrids in blue / green ql10 gear. Swtich fast to help out with healing? Good joke.
The elitism can get pretty bad. I had QL 9 gear at the time, and tried to get a group for Inferno/Hotel dungeon, which is a dungeon that really only requires QL 3/4 gear. However, when I advertised that I wanted a group, I also advertised that it was my first trip in there. I got no hits. So, even though they would have a god-like (for this dungeon) character with them, no one could be bothered to explain the fights, and I could get no groups. So, I let my sub lapse and if I hear that the elitism has at least diminished I'll be back.
Hedonismbot: Your latest performance was as delectable as dipping my bottom over and over into a bath of the silkiest oils and creams.
Originally posted by Skooma2
Been playing since Day 1 and am now completely bored by it. I, like a lot of people, prefer to play by myself
We are a cabal that has 4 solid members, and a few available a night or two a week, meaning we are almost always getting at least one DPS PUG. So we are picky.
With that said, sometimes we advertise and many of nights we do as new players welcome to join. You basically just got yourself every purple drop that drops, we have it all. We need bullion. Once your out of the first 3 NMS (Polaris, DW, and Hell Raised) your going to get people being picky about a lot of stuff. Expect it or find your own cabal and friends to have your own group. When you deal with PUGS expect elite attitudes.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
WoW maybe,EQ tho it would have to been hard core raiders then..An that should say it all really.
"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." Robert E. Howard, The Tower of the Elephant (1933)
When I started doing NM, I created my own teams and said "beginner run" in the add. It was fun to do the dungeons with other beginners even if you only managed to get 2-3 bosses down the first times. I completly understand that some want to recruit only players with xxx stats.
Personally I try not to create silly rules on what you need, and never post AR reqs. I just leave it up to the player to decide if he's ready for it. Still some players do take advantage of this freedom and that's why many are strict. I remeber I did some beginner Ankh runs. Didnt state any AR or anything, but said "reasonale gear", still one guy showed up in full blue ql 10 elite gear for it.
I expect players to atleast have a some epics, perhaps full 10.0 epics before coming to a harder dungeon than the first NM's. Or atleast good knowledge of the fights if your on a alt.