Originally posted by Vidir Love the elder scroll games, but will not play this since they are making it pvp game.
I'm generally not a PvP kind of guy, but that's mostly because of how MMO's tend to impliment it with immersion-breaking FPS holdovers. Stuff like Capture the Flag or Control Points or whatever, all in nice little instances with balanced maps so that each side more or less mirros the other.
I'm reserving judgement on TESO for now, but if they avoid that, then I might be interested.
Considering they're basing it off DAoC, it will be nothing like that.
And the best thing about TESO PvP. NO BATTLEGROUNDS! IMO the #1 killer of world PvP in MMO's, PvP or better yet RvR is considered the best form of MMO PvP todate.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Originally posted by GreenishBlue I won't give it a second look until I see what's the real deal. Gameplay or it didn't happen.
I have to agree. I personally would prefer a real DaoC 2 and to let Elder scroll game be more Elder scrolls (I would like a version of Daggerfall with other players) but I will still have a good look on the game and give final judgement when I actually see it, not base it on a few things Firor said during development.
And the best thing about TESO PvP. NO BATTLEGROUNDS! IMO the #1 killer of world PvP in MMO's, PvP or better yet RvR is considered the best form of MMO PvP todate.
Are you 100% sure of that?
I really hope you are right, while I dont mind arenas (which I think actually should be played in an open world arena so we can watch) BGs really kills RvR.
But I fear they will wuss out like WAR did and add them anyways.
Originally posted by Kalstark how can u all give something a second look wen we barely know anything about the game? fanboys and haters, wow
And then theres the people who are just plain cluelees about anything thats going on. Theyre even better!
When the game was announced, it sounded like TESO is nothing like TES games, theyre just using the lore. None of the mechanics / features that are the reasons why many people enjoy TES games.
The initital reacton by many was: "WTF, its WoW with TES lore, not Skyrim Online. Horrible"
But after getting over that initial feeling of them screwing up the IP, and taking a look at some of the other details theyve released, some are starting to realize that while it isnt "Skyrim Online", that doesnt make the game itself bad, and it also isn't just like WOW. Its shaping up to be more like a mix of GW2 and DAOC set in the world of Elder Scrolls.
Thats called giving it a 2nd chance and not blowing the game off purely because it wasnt what was expected for TESO.
Sounds like someone doesnt even practice what they preach. Check my sig, plenty of content that is TES stylized. Of course the MMO version isnt going to be a "Skyrim Online" because that would be foolish because many of the elements do not work, or dont do well in the MMO market. From the boring TES combat, zero gear/skill progression and feelancing style gameplay (i.e. putting baskets over NPC's heads to steal their wares, or Killing NPC's that may or may not offer a storyline quest) Theres even a guy here with the a sig showing Ulfric Stormcrow laying dead on the floor. That shit doesnt work in an MMO when hundreds of thousands of players not getting to see content due to douchebaggery behavior.
Many of the elements that make TES style games fun have been incorporated into the MMO version with some changes to accomodate online play. Seriously think about it, why hasnt there NEVER been an official TES mod to allow multiplayer? Because it doesnt work.
The ONLY thing I am saddened about TESO is the removal of player housing, but they have already stated they would incorporate it into the MMO, just not at release.
Zero gear / skill progression... really? Did you even play the game?
- Refining gear to increase stats
- Leveling up your crafting to be able to craft better types of gear (starting with Iron, then steel, etc) as well as refine them further
- Spending points into your crafting and choosing wether to go with things like Orc vs Glass, etc
- Leveling up of skill types (ie: archery, 2h, 1h, destruction, restorarion, etc) increasing their effectiveness. I suppose stuff like leveling up your Pickpocket skill didnt give you better chance of pickpocketing succesfully either.
- Spending skill points to improve your skills within the above categories, make them cost less, or add additional effects to them.
Clearly certain things, like permanently killing NPCs, wuld not work in an MMO.
The combat style has been used already and its proven it can work, they just used the excuse of "technical limitations", which is simply not true. Darkfall, Mortal, Planetside 1 & 2, now War Z, etc.
Now. Tell me, what features are they directly taking from TES single player games? Nearly everything known so far is taken directly from other games. The combat system and skill design are nearly identical to GW2, they even use the exact same combo system with Synergies. The RvR is taken from DAoC. The "Finesse" system exists in TES games where? There is nothing that stands out so far and says "This a TES game", aside from the setting / lore.
Does that make it a bad game? No
Just saying that it is not at all what was expected by most in a TES game. When you play Morrowind, Oblivon, or Skyrim, you KNOW youre playing a TES game. TESO sounds more like it will feel like playing GW2 / DAOC with maybe a mix of some other things int here.
I was thinking that in truth, DAOC was and still is the best rvr system that has ever existed. After a little reading i see that the TESO rvr system is really the daoc system with darkness falls as the main city. Ive also been reading on their combat model, and it is actually sounding really good to me.
So im going to look at this one as daoc 2 and not an elder scrolls game and give it another shot.
Whether they live up to it is another matter of course but time will tell.
i will add though that if i see this game pull anything like the TOA expansion for DAOC and make raiding a requirement for the best gear, i will drop this game like a stone.
As long as you don't think of the game as Elder Scrolls, there is not reason you can't enjoy it for what it is.
Much of the dissapoinment about the game is. People were really wanting an Elder Scrolls game for a long time. To get our hopes up, telling us there is going to be an Elder Scrolls game, then being told, except for lore, it is nothing like what makes the Elders scroll great, is what has people disappointed.
It is like bait and switch. We are making an Elder Scrolls game. Yay! Oh one more thing; we are getting rid of everything Elder Scrolls and making it just like DAoC. Huh?
(I guess I have just gotten to the acceptance phase)
I was thinking that in truth, DAOC was and still is the best rvr system that has ever existed. After a little reading i see that the TESO rvr system is really the daoc system with darkness falls as the main city. Ive also been reading on their combat model, and it is actually sounding really good to me.
So im going to look at this one as daoc 2 and not an elder scrolls game and give it another shot.
Whether they live up to it is another matter of course but time will tell.
i will add though that if i see this game pull anything like the TOA expansion for DAOC and make raiding a requirement for the best gear, i will drop this game like a stone.
As long as you don't think of the game as Elder Scrolls, there is not reason you can't enjoy it for what it is.
Much of the dissapoinment about the game is. People were really wanting an Elder Scrolls game for a long time. To get our hopes up, telling us there is going to be an Elder Scrolls game, then being told, except for lore, it is nothing like what makes the Elders scroll great, is what has people disappointed.
It is like bait and switch. We are making an Elder Scrolls game. Yay! Oh one more thing; we are getting rid of everything Elder Scrolls and making it just like DAoC. Huh?
(I guess I have just gotten to the acceptance phase)
I have accepted that this is going to be "just another MMO" and am no longer interested in the least, ES name or not.
Originally posted by Vidir Love the elder scroll games, but will not play this since they are making it pvp game.
I'm generally not a PvP kind of guy, but that's mostly because of how MMO's tend to impliment it with immersion-breaking FPS holdovers. Stuff like Capture the Flag or Control Points or whatever, all in nice little instances with balanced maps so that each side more or less mirros the other.
I'm reserving judgement on TESO for now, but if they avoid that, then I might be interested.
Considering they're basing it off DAoC, it will be nothing like that.
I've learned a long time ago not to believe much of anything game dev's claim. When they release it, I'll judge it.
I was thinking that in truth, DAOC was and still is the best rvr system that has ever existed. After a little reading i see that the TESO rvr system is really the daoc system with darkness falls as the main city. Ive also been reading on their combat model, and it is actually sounding really good to me.
So im going to look at this one as daoc 2 and not an elder scrolls game and give it another shot.
Whether they live up to it is another matter of course but time will tell.
i will add though that if i see this game pull anything like the TOA expansion for DAOC and make raiding a requirement for the best gear, i will drop this game like a stone.
The game is going to be decent enough that it will trump most mmo's released in the last couple years. The user tools they are releasing are amazing.... nothing like it to date.
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Originally posted by Kalstark how can u all give something a second look wen we barely know anything about the game? fanboys and haters, wow
And then theres the people who are just plain cluelees about anything thats going on. Theyre even better!
When the game was announced, it sounded like TESO is nothing like TES games, theyre just using the lore. None of the mechanics / features that are the reasons why many people enjoy TES games.
The initital reacton by many was: "WTF, its WoW with TES lore, not Skyrim Online. Horrible"
But after getting over that initial feeling of them screwing up the IP, and taking a look at some of the other details theyve released, some are starting to realize that while it isnt "Skyrim Online", that doesnt make the game itself bad, and it also isn't just like WOW. Its shaping up to be more like a mix of GW2 and DAOC set in the world of Elder Scrolls.
Thats called giving it a 2nd chance and not blowing the game off purely because it wasnt what was expected for TESO.
if by clueless you mean thought we should wait until we saw some gameplay/got more information than just the fact that we know its an ES MMO, yes, we are clueless, any you my friend, are a b itch, literally b itching about something you have no idea about and are in fact clueless about, ironic
I was thinking that in truth, DAOC was and still is the best rvr system that has ever existed. After a little reading i see that the TESO rvr system is really the daoc system with darkness falls as the main city. Ive also been reading on their combat model, and it is actually sounding really good to me.
So im going to look at this one as daoc 2 and not an elder scrolls game and give it another shot.
Whether they live up to it is another matter of course but time will tell.
i will add though that if i see this game pull anything like the TOA expansion for DAOC and make raiding a requirement for the best gear, i will drop this game like a stone.
The game is going to be decent enough that it will trump most mmo's released in the last couple years. The user tools they are releasing are amazing.... nothing like it to date.
Source for user tools? I think you're thinking about Neverwinter.
I was thinking that in truth, DAOC was and still is the best rvr system that has ever existed. After a little reading i see that the TESO rvr system is really the daoc system with darkness falls as the main city. Ive also been reading on their combat model, and it is actually sounding really good to me.
So im going to look at this one as daoc 2 and not an elder scrolls game and give it another shot.
Whether they live up to it is another matter of course but time will tell.
i will add though that if i see this game pull anything like the TOA expansion for DAOC and make raiding a requirement for the best gear, i will drop this game like a stone.
The game is going to be decent enough that it will trump most mmo's released in the last couple years. The user tools they are releasing are amazing.... nothing like it to date.
Source for user tools? I think you're thinking about Neverwinter.
Duh! Smoke another one Tyrone *Echos a voice* Ahhh crap, sorry... you are right.... I am thinking neverwinter online...
"The King and the Pawn return to the same box at the end of the game"
Originally posted by Bathnor I have always thought that a MMO that was set in the TES universe would be cool. Would love one where the world was as large as the original, TES: Arena. The gameplay of Arena/Daggerfall and the grafics of Skyrim. I honestly hope there are no instanced dungeons. I miss real dungeons where you might run into other people. I am not going to get my hopes up though, it sounds more like a WoW/DaoC clone wioth a few TES elements thrown in.
If you have played an MMO before, you know why instancing was "invented".
Before instancing, you ran into a dungeon and literally sat in a line to do anything. Or you left because there were 200 people jammed in a cave with 10 things to fight. So while you have a romantic view of the old open world games, they have very severe problems that people like to look back on with rose colored glasses.
I remember this distinctly from "Vendo Caverns" in the low level area in Midgard in DAOC. I used to go in, check the line, and ask people to message me if the line got shorter. When you were in a group with a room camped and someone left, you just ran to the entrance to pick up someone waiting in line.
Now I think I understand what you meant and agree with the sentiment of stumbling upon strangers and making friends with them (or enemies). I actually think that is what has caused most of the recent WOW clones to fail in my eyes. Newer games are overdone with instanced content. Everything is too sanitary and there are too many "single serving" friends (Fight Club!).
You run by, automatically join someone for an area quest, and you never even say so much as "hi" or "bye". Is it really grouping at this point in MMO's? A much less sexier term would be concurrent single player, not really multi-player.
The MMO space has basically went from one extreme to the other.
I'd rather see a middle ground where there is only 1 "instance" for a dungeon that is designed for 10 players. When an 11th solo player or group joins that would push the area past 10 players, spin up another copy. Seperate the chat channels so no one breaks immersion by realizing there is an alternate space out there.
So I think instancing has a purpose and we need to be mindful of what it is. I do think it is overused today as a "positive feature" rather than what it is, a work around for the platforms limitations.
Comments
And the best thing about TESO PvP. NO BATTLEGROUNDS! IMO the #1 killer of world PvP in MMO's, PvP or better yet RvR is considered the best form of MMO PvP todate.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
I have to agree. I personally would prefer a real DaoC 2 and to let Elder scroll game be more Elder scrolls (I would like a version of Daggerfall with other players) but I will still have a good look on the game and give final judgement when I actually see it, not base it on a few things Firor said during development.
Are you 100% sure of that?
I really hope you are right, while I dont mind arenas (which I think actually should be played in an open world arena so we can watch) BGs really kills RvR.
But I fear they will wuss out like WAR did and add them anyways.
Zero gear / skill progression... really? Did you even play the game?
- Refining gear to increase stats
- Leveling up your crafting to be able to craft better types of gear (starting with Iron, then steel, etc) as well as refine them further
- Spending points into your crafting and choosing wether to go with things like Orc vs Glass, etc
- Leveling up of skill types (ie: archery, 2h, 1h, destruction, restorarion, etc) increasing their effectiveness. I suppose stuff like leveling up your Pickpocket skill didnt give you better chance of pickpocketing succesfully either.
- Spending skill points to improve your skills within the above categories, make them cost less, or add additional effects to them.
Clearly certain things, like permanently killing NPCs, wuld not work in an MMO.
The combat style has been used already and its proven it can work, they just used the excuse of "technical limitations", which is simply not true. Darkfall, Mortal, Planetside 1 & 2, now War Z, etc.
Now. Tell me, what features are they directly taking from TES single player games? Nearly everything known so far is taken directly from other games. The combat system and skill design are nearly identical to GW2, they even use the exact same combo system with Synergies. The RvR is taken from DAoC. The "Finesse" system exists in TES games where? There is nothing that stands out so far and says "This a TES game", aside from the setting / lore.
Does that make it a bad game? No
Just saying that it is not at all what was expected by most in a TES game. When you play Morrowind, Oblivon, or Skyrim, you KNOW youre playing a TES game. TESO sounds more like it will feel like playing GW2 / DAOC with maybe a mix of some other things int here.
As long as you don't think of the game as Elder Scrolls, there is not reason you can't enjoy it for what it is.
Much of the dissapoinment about the game is. People were really wanting an Elder Scrolls game for a long time. To get our hopes up, telling us there is going to be an Elder Scrolls game, then being told, except for lore, it is nothing like what makes the Elders scroll great, is what has people disappointed.
It is like bait and switch. We are making an Elder Scrolls game. Yay! Oh one more thing; we are getting rid of everything Elder Scrolls and making it just like DAoC. Huh?
(I guess I have just gotten to the acceptance phase)
I have accepted that this is going to be "just another MMO" and am no longer interested in the least, ES name or not.
I've learned a long time ago not to believe much of anything game dev's claim. When they release it, I'll judge it.
You make me like charity
The game is going to be decent enough that it will trump most mmo's released in the last couple years. The user tools they are releasing are amazing.... nothing like it to date.
if by clueless you mean thought we should wait until we saw some gameplay/got more information than just the fact that we know its an ES MMO, yes, we are clueless, any you my friend, are a b itch, literally b itching about something you have no idea about and are in fact clueless about, ironic
Source for user tools? I think you're thinking about Neverwinter.
Duh! Smoke another one Tyrone *Echos a voice* Ahhh crap, sorry... you are right.... I am thinking neverwinter online...
If you have played an MMO before, you know why instancing was "invented".
Before instancing, you ran into a dungeon and literally sat in a line to do anything. Or you left because there were 200 people jammed in a cave with 10 things to fight. So while you have a romantic view of the old open world games, they have very severe problems that people like to look back on with rose colored glasses.
I remember this distinctly from "Vendo Caverns" in the low level area in Midgard in DAOC. I used to go in, check the line, and ask people to message me if the line got shorter. When you were in a group with a room camped and someone left, you just ran to the entrance to pick up someone waiting in line.
Now I think I understand what you meant and agree with the sentiment of stumbling upon strangers and making friends with them (or enemies). I actually think that is what has caused most of the recent WOW clones to fail in my eyes. Newer games are overdone with instanced content. Everything is too sanitary and there are too many "single serving" friends (Fight Club!).
You run by, automatically join someone for an area quest, and you never even say so much as "hi" or "bye". Is it really grouping at this point in MMO's? A much less sexier term would be concurrent single player, not really multi-player.
The MMO space has basically went from one extreme to the other.
I'd rather see a middle ground where there is only 1 "instance" for a dungeon that is designed for 10 players. When an 11th solo player or group joins that would push the area past 10 players, spin up another copy. Seperate the chat channels so no one breaks immersion by realizing there is an alternate space out there.
So I think instancing has a purpose and we need to be mindful of what it is. I do think it is overused today as a "positive feature" rather than what it is, a work around for the platforms limitations.