First person only servers

rungard · October 2012

perhaps an easy way to solve the 1st/3rd person issue is simply to have some first person only servers. This wouldnt impact the people who like the 3rd person view better, and there would be no disadvantage relative to other players for playing in that view on the 1st person only servers.

they have all kinds of different rules servers and i see this as being no different.

who can really argue with that?

gordiflu · October 2012

I have not digged too much into it, so I would like to know this (too lazy to gather the info myself?)

Is this going to be an actual FPS or TPS combat style, or just the view? Becouse I don't care too much about how I see the combat if the mechanic is still the old tab-targetting.

GwapoJosh · October 2012

Originally posted by gordiflu
I have not digged too much into it, so I would like to know this (too lazy to gather the info myself?)

Is this going to be an actual FPS or TPS combat style, or just the view? Becouse I don't care too much about how I see the combat if the mechanic is still the old tab-targetting.

From what they have said so far, it's pretty much a mix of WoW and DAoC.. Sadly it's third person tab targeting.

Zylaxx · October 2012

Originally posted by rungard
perhaps an easy way to solve the 1st/3rd person issue is simply to have some first person only servers. This wouldnt impact the people who like the 3rd person view better, and there would be no disadvantage relative to other players for playing in that view on the 1st person only servers.

they have all kinds of different rules servers and i see this as being no different.

who can really argue with that?

Or better yet not to complain about it and play or not play based on the developers decision. 1st person is silly and it limits the players actions so no, keep it 3rd person. Besides they have already stated you can play in 1st person if you wanted, but it isnt optimized for it. Just like Todd Howard said Skyrim would be able to played in 3rd person but it wasnt optimized for it, and boy was he right.

Ice-Queen · October 2012

Originally posted by Zylaxx
Or better yet not to complain about it and play or not play based on the developers decision. 1st person is silly and it limits the players actions so no, keep it 3rd person. Besides they have already stated you can play in 1st person if you wanted, but it isnt optimized for it. Just like Todd Howard said Skyrim would be able to played in 3rd person but it wasnt optimized for it, and boy was he right.

^^This^^

You can scroll in like you can with WoW if you want 1st person view. I'm glad they have a choice there, because if it were 1st person only I probably wouldn't be able to play the game, it'd give me a seizure. The way they have it, 1st person and 3rd person view is supported.

DOGMA1138 · October 2012

Originally posted by rungard
perhaps an easy way to solve the 1st/3rd person issue is simply to have some first person only servers. This wouldnt impact the people who like the 3rd person view better, and there would be no disadvantage relative to other players for playing in that view on the 1st person only servers.

they have all kinds of different rules servers and i see this as being no different.

who can really argue with that?

1st person will not work, its like playing WoW in first person unless you're a raid healer in case you might aswell be playing solitaire since you are simply hovering over addons and pressing several keys you can't really play it in 1st person.

There is no aimed targeting to actually required you to do so, and 1st person in MMO's gives you 0 situational awareness since all fights in PVE, and all PVP mechanics are ballanced against playing it in 3rd person.

gordiflu · October 2012

Originally posted by Zylaxx
Originally posted by rungard
perhaps an easy way to solve the 1st/3rd person issue is simply to have some first person only servers. This wouldnt impact the people who like the 3rd person view better, and there would be no disadvantage relative to other players for playing in that view on the 1st person only servers.

they have all kinds of different rules servers and i see this as being no different.

who can really argue with that?

Or better yet not to complain about it and play or not play based on the developers decision. 1st person is silly and it limits the players actions so no, keep it 3rd person. Besides they have already stated you can play in 1st person if you wanted, but it isnt optimized for it. Just like Todd Howard said Skyrim would be able to played in 3rd person but it wasnt optimized for it, and boy was he right.

A bit offtopic: Playing Skyrim on 3rd person and it works perfect once you put an aiming correcting mod. I am using a mod called "Better Aiming" but there are others. You will never go back to first person.

DavisFlight · October 2012

I'd rather have a server without instances or quest based leveling.

Hell, just give us DAoC 2.

Entinerint · October 2012

Originally posted by rungard
perhaps an easy way to solve the 1st/3rd person issue is simply to have some first person only servers. This wouldnt impact the people who like the 3rd person view better, and there would be no disadvantage relative to other players for playing in that view on the 1st person only servers.

they have all kinds of different rules servers and i see this as being no different.

who can really argue with that?

I can argue with it, ready?

1) Different server rulesets require the dividing of the community. We already have standard things like RP, PvP, PvE, RP-PvP, etc. Then add DAOC's FFA, PvE, RvR rulesets, then add FPV rulesets. That's 20 different server types right there. Populations get lower, games feel dead, etc. This is why recent games have been cutting down on the amount of rulesets. GW2 launched with no sperate rulesets, only unofficial RP servers which are dictated by the community.

2) I get why you're saying this, because of PvP, but I would hazard a guess that very few TES players play solely in one or the other. I know I play in first-person, but sometimes I want to see what my character looks like (As Todd Howard puts it "Vanity Mode") riding his horse through the land. I would want that option at times. That comes with a drawback, not only can people have more available view in PvP, seeing behind them, etc, but they can also corner-look. Go into 3rd person, put your face up to a wall at a corner, you can magically see around the corner without exposing yourself, able to get the jump on people. This is kinda considered cheating, and part of the reason I only play on FPV servers in DayZ, because people use it to lean-kill you all the time in TPV. Difference there is, its limited to 50 people per server anyway (see 1).

3) Constantly being in FPV would, IMHO, absolutely necessitate a true real-time combat system, just like Skyrim has, or dare-I-say Dishonored (the melee combat in that game was fantastic). Also, it would necessitate AI tweaks as well.

Either first-person is the ONLY option across the board, just like the original TES games Arena and Daggerfall, or you have to let it be what it is: a preferential choice.

First-person: More immersion, less tactical advantage.

Third-person: Less immersion, more tactical advantage.

Personally, I will PvE and explore in first-person, then PvP in third by necessity. (LOLOLOL what am I talking about?! I'm not installing this piece of crap!)

Ice-Queen · October 2012

Originally posted by DavisFlight
I'd rather have a server without instances or quest based leveling.

Hell, just give us DAoC 2.

If it's old frontiers/pre-ToA DAOC

I've been waiting for something similar for years now, with nothing ever even coming close to the massive RvR battles we use to have in the Old Frontiers

rungard · October 2012

Originally posted by DOGMA1138
Originally posted by rungard
perhaps an easy way to solve the 1st/3rd person issue is simply to have some first person only servers. This wouldnt impact the people who like the 3rd person view better, and there would be no disadvantage relative to other players for playing in that view on the 1st person only servers.

they have all kinds of different rules servers and i see this as being no different.

who can really argue with that?

1st person will not work, its like playing WoW in first person unless you're a raid healer in case you might aswell be playing solitaire since you are simply hovering over addons and pressing several keys you can't really play it in 1st person.

There is no aimed targeting to actually required you to do so, and 1st person in MMO's gives you 0 situational awareness since all fights in PVE, and all PVP mechanics are ballanced against playing it in 3rd person.

well you dont need fps targeting to play first person. I played everquest exclusively in first person for years and it was fine. There are no technical issues why it doesnt work. If anything it will work better because combat has monster cues that you need to exploit. How do you suppose youll be doing that when your zoomed out? you see much more up close.

The situational awareness is irrelevent as long as the playfeild is level. I can still hear behind me and if i was a knight wearing a helmet, my feild of view would be likely less than that of the standard 1st person view.

your going to need better arguments than that.

rungard · October 2012

Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by rungard
perhaps an easy way to solve the 1st/3rd person issue is simply to have some first person only servers. This wouldnt impact the people who like the 3rd person view better, and there would be no disadvantage relative to other players for playing in that view on the 1st person only servers.

they have all kinds of different rules servers and i see this as being no different.

who can really argue with that?

I can argue with it, ready?

1) Different server rulesets require the dividing of the community. We already have standard things like RP, PvP, PvE, RP-PvP, etc. Then add DAOC's FFA, PvE, RvR rulesets, then add FPV rulesets. That's 20 different server types right there. Populations get lower, games feel dead, etc. This is why recent games have been cutting down on the amount of rulesets. GW2 launched with no sperate rulesets, only unofficial RP servers which are dictated by the community.

Just because one game has no special ruleset servers doesnt mean they all should. Most games have different rulesets for different types of players. the real deal is if there are enough players to justify a different rule server. With 1.7 million pc sales of skyrim, i would imagine they would be warranted. Beyond that you have to divide the community into servers anyway so your point is moot.

2) I get why you're saying this, because of PvP, but I would hazard a guess that very few TES players play solely in one or the other. I know I play in first-person, but sometimes I want to see what my character looks like (As Todd Howard puts it "Vanity Mode") riding his horse through the land. I would want that option at times. That comes with a drawback, not only can people have more available view in PvP, seeing behind them, etc, but they can also corner-look. Go into 3rd person, put your face up to a wall at a corner, you can magically see around the corner without exposing yourself, able to get the jump on people. This is kinda considered cheating, and part of the reason I only play on FPV servers in DayZ, because people use it to lean-kill you all the time in TPV. Difference there is, its limited to 50 people per server anyway (see 1).

I would wager the vast majority of skyrim players exclusively use the first person view. There is certainly enough demand to warrant a server or a few servers. Beyond that you dont have to play on a FPV server. You can play on the standard server.

3) Constantly being in FPV would, IMHO, absolutely necessitate a true real-time combat system, just like Skyrim has, or dare-I-say Dishonored (the melee combat in that game was fantastic). Also, it would necessitate AI tweaks as well.

Completely not the case. Anyone who played everquest originally knows this. You do not need realtime anything, but you do need to see what the monster or player is doing, which will be more difficult with a 3rd person view. Since they are different servers however, the argument is irrelevent. The rules are the same for everyone.

Either first-person is the ONLY option across the board, just like the original TES games Arena and Daggerfall, or you have to let it be what it is: a preferential choice.

There is no reason you cant have FPV only servers and standard servers where you could choose either view.

First-person: More immersion, less tactical advantage.

Less tactical advantage is relevent to someone using a different view. Since they will be on the same server with the same view there is no overall tactical advantage on a server basis.

Third-person: Less immersion, more tactical advantage.

Again there is no tactical advantage because everyone uses the same view. You actually will have a tactical disadvantage because it will be harder for you to see mob and player cues.

Personally, I will PvE and explore in first-person, then PvP in third by necessity. (LOLOLOL what am I talking about?! I'm not installing this piece of crap!)

why are you here if your not interested in it.

Entinerint · October 2012

Originally posted by rungard
Originally posted by Entinerint
Originally posted by rungard
perhaps an easy way to solve the 1st/3rd person issue is simply to have some first person only servers. This wouldnt impact the people who like the 3rd person view better, and there would be no disadvantage relative to other players for playing in that view on the 1st person only servers.

they have all kinds of different rules servers and i see this as being no different.

who can really argue with that?

I can argue with it, ready?

Ok I'll be...LIGHT BLUE!!!

1) Different server rulesets require the dividing of the community. We already have standard things like RP, PvP, PvE, RP-PvP, etc. Then add DAOC's FFA, PvE, RvR rulesets, then add FPV rulesets. That's 20 different server types right there. Populations get lower, games feel dead, etc. This is why recent games have been cutting down on the amount of rulesets. GW2 launched with no sperate rulesets, only unofficial RP servers which are dictated by the community.

Just because one game has no special ruleset servers doesnt mean they all should. Most games have different rulesets for different types of players. the real deal is if there are enough players to justify a different rule server. With 1.7 million pc sales of skyrim, i would imagine they would be warranted. Beyond that you have to divide the community into servers anyway so your point is moot.

That's very true, some games still do, but not 20 different variations. No game has ever gone that far. It also depends on each individual's server caps, we might see a much higher cap with advent of better technology, but they'll also want to curb crowding.

Also, as a side note, Skyrim has sold over 2.5 million copies to date on PC. You would think they would be capitalizing more on the TES fanbase, but I guess not.

Don't get me wrong, I am a FPV advocate, and prefer FPV to any other viewpoint by far, but an entire server just for a locked FPV seems farfetched to me, that's all.

2) I get why you're saying this, because of PvP, but I would hazard a guess that very few TES players play solely in one or the other. I know I play in first-person, but sometimes I want to see what my character looks like (As Todd Howard puts it "Vanity Mode") riding his horse through the land. I would want that option at times. That comes with a drawback, not only can people have more available view in PvP, seeing behind them, etc, but they can also corner-look. Go into 3rd person, put your face up to a wall at a corner, you can magically see around the corner without exposing yourself, able to get the jump on people. This is kinda considered cheating, and part of the reason I only play on FPV servers in DayZ, because people use it to lean-kill you all the time in TPV. Difference there is, its limited to 50 people per server anyway (see 1).

I would wager the vast majority of skyrim players exclusively use the first person view. There is certainly enough demand to warrant a server or a few servers. Beyond that you dont have to play on a FPV server. You can play on the standard server.

I would love it if this were the case. There's no way to know from a factual standpoint without taking a far-reaching poll if it is true or not. What I can say is TES games are designed for FPV primarily, and it is really sad that they have chosen to do away with that. Then again, a lot of people complain about first-person and it is tough to judge who the majority is. If I HAD to wager, I'd say it's likely pretty balanced, but on PC, would likely favor the use of FPV. Of course, it is one of the major complaints BGS get about TES games, and why more of a focus as given to third-person in Skyrim, although I suspect they gimped it just a little bit to make FPV still the preferred mode of play.

3) Constantly being in FPV would, IMHO, absolutely necessitate a true real-time combat system, just like Skyrim has, or dare-I-say Dishonored (the melee combat in that game was fantastic). Also, it would necessitate AI tweaks as well.

Completely not the case. Anyone who played everquest originally knows this. You do not need realtime anything, but you do need to see what the monster or player is doing, which will be more difficult with a 3rd person view. Since they are different servers however, the argument is irrelevent. The rules are the same for everyone.

Have you ever played WoW in first-person? I mean, being in combat, even PvE, it is pretty messy, with things clipping into your camera, no accel/decel to make the movement feel fluid, etc. It is much easier to tell what's going on from a far-out TPV. You don't need to see what the monster or player is doing because when they are targetted you have a little readout that gives you all that info. In TESO, we just have to watch the ground for AOE and attack targetting and that will be very hard from a FPV. I stand by the fact that a fundamental change would have to occur to the combat and AI design for locked FPV to be viable.

Either first-person is the ONLY option across the board, just like the original TES games Arena and Daggerfall, or you have to let it be what it is: a preferential choice.

There is no reason you cant have FPV only servers and standard servers where you could choose either view.

I guarantee you, aside from the added server cost, those servers would be empty in a matter of weeks. That said, I imagine most of TESO's servers will be empty in that time anyway, due to their direction on the game.

First-person: More immersion, less tactical advantage.

Less tactical advantage is relevent to someone using a different view. Since they will be on the same server with the same view there is no overall tactical advantage on a server basis.

Third-person: Less immersion, more tactical advantage.

Again there is no tactical advantage because everyone uses the same view. You actually will have a tactical disadvantage because it will be harder for you to see mob and player cues.

This was a comparison between the two. A person in FPV is more immersed, and a person in TPV has more situational awareness. That's just a fact.

Personally, I will PvE and explore in first-person, then PvP in third by necessity. (LOLOLOL what am I talking about?! I'm not installing this piece of crap!)

why are you here if your not interested in it.

I never said I wasn't interested, did I? I said I'm not installing this piece of crap. I am VERY interested in an Elder Scrolls MMORPG. I have been dreaming and speculating about it with others since 2002. That's ten years, ten freakin' years, ten! But as it stands now, this garbage doesn't even deserve the Elder Scrolls name. If they actually make the sweeping and fundamental changes necessary to make this title worthy of the TES IP, I might give it a second glance, but as it stands right now, no way in hell. I could care less about DAOC with better graphics and the TES namesake slapped across the front.

rungard · October 2012

ive decided that while its true there are some features in dont like, im not going to write off the game without more evidence of its suckiness. Your here so you might as well give it a chance. I wrote it off initially as well.

i do agree that wow first person isnt that good, but remember that this game has active block not active dodge. There is a big difference there. You probabally wont be encountering GW2 levels of aoe. The game doesnt have the escape mechanism for it. You dont have to move to block.

kaiser3282 · October 2012

Originally posted by rungard
ive decided that while its true there are some features in dont like, im not going to write off the game without more evidence of its suckiness. Your here so you might as well give it a chance. I wrote it off initially as well.

i do agree that wow first person isnt that good, but remember that this game has active block not active dodge. There is a big difference there. You probabally wont be encountering GW2 levels of aoe. The game doesnt have the escape mechanism for it. You dont have to move to block.

It has both blocking and dodging. It also utilizes other similar mechanics like Synergy fields (same as combo fields in GW2), and the same ground circles, etc.

Also I think this thread kind ofmisses the entire point of people wanting 1st person. Its not JUST the camera view we want. Its the twitch style combat that goes along with it instead of tab targetting, etc.

rungard · October 2012

Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by rungard
ive decided that while its true there are some features in dont like, im not going to write off the game without more evidence of its suckiness. Your here so you might as well give it a chance. I wrote it off initially as well.

i do agree that wow first person isnt that good, but remember that this game has active block not active dodge. There is a big difference there. You probabally wont be encountering GW2 levels of aoe. The game doesnt have the escape mechanism for it. You dont have to move to block.

It has both blocking and dodging. It also utilizes other similar mechanics like Synergy fields (same as combo fields in GW2), and the same ground circles, etc.

Also I think this thread kind ofmisses the entire point of people wanting 1st person. Its not JUST the camera view we want. Its the twitch style combat that goes along with it instead of tab targetting, etc.

ahh i didnt read dodge anywhere. Still I have no issues with first person and active (GW2) type mmo combat. It will still be alot more immersive that the 3rd person garbage they insist on nowadays.

Your most certainly not going to get FPS combat as i doubt their engine supports it, but you might get first person view and strategic combat. You never know it might turn out better.

kaiser3282 · October 2012

Originally posted by rungard
Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by rungard
ive decided that while its true there are some features in dont like, im not going to write off the game without more evidence of its suckiness. Your here so you might as well give it a chance. I wrote it off initially as well.

i do agree that wow first person isnt that good, but remember that this game has active block not active dodge. There is a big difference there. You probabally wont be encountering GW2 levels of aoe. The game doesnt have the escape mechanism for it. You dont have to move to block.

It has both blocking and dodging. It also utilizes other similar mechanics like Synergy fields (same as combo fields in GW2), and the same ground circles, etc.

Also I think this thread kind ofmisses the entire point of people wanting 1st person. Its not JUST the camera view we want. Its the twitch style combat that goes along with it instead of tab targetting, etc.

ahh i didnt read dodge anywhere. Still I have no issues with first person and active (GW2) type mmo combat. It will still be alot more immersive that the 3rd person garbage they insist on nowadays.

Your most certainly not going to get FPS combat as i doubt their engine supports it, but you might get first person view and strategic combat. You never know it might turn out better.

Yeah, I dont have a problem with that type of combat either. Im also going to continue watching the game and trying it out when it releases as i posted iny our thread about giving it a 2nd look. Like I said there, it's not what i wanted in a TES game, but doesnt mean it's a bad game.

rungard · October 2012

Originally posted by kaiser3282
Originally posted by rungard
ive decided that while its true there are some features in dont like, im not going to write off the game without more evidence of its suckiness. Your here so you might as well give it a chance. I wrote it off initially as well.

i do agree that wow first person isnt that good, but remember that this game has active block not active dodge. There is a big difference there. You probabally wont be encountering GW2 levels of aoe. The game doesnt have the escape mechanism for it. You dont have to move to block.

It has both blocking and dodging. It also utilizes other similar mechanics like Synergy fields (same as combo fields in GW2), and the same ground circles, etc.

Also I think this thread kind ofmisses the entire point of people wanting 1st person. Its not JUST the camera view we want. Its the twitch style combat that goes along with it instead of tab targetting, etc.

just a fyi i checked and theres no mention of dodging on anything i could find. There is mention of sprinting, crouching, breaking crowd control and blocking. Do you have a reference?

Roxtarr · October 2012

I haven't done any research on this, but are there any games major elements (besides the usual PvP or RP differences) that are different between servers? This seems like a huge difference that would be pretty tough to pull off from server to server.

rungard · October 2012

Originally posted by Roxtarr
I haven't done any research on this, but are there any games major elements (besides the usual PvP or RP differences) that are different between servers? This seems like a huge difference that would be pretty tough to pull off from server to server.

the whole idea of a different ruleset system is directly because of differing game styles. Im sure its easy enough to disable the 3rd person view. The question is whether there is enough people to justify it, and in the case of TESO i believe it is justified given peoples familiarity with oblivions and skyrims first person interface (millions of people).

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