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I feel this is a bad thread. There is so much that makes up an MMO that just listing one thing is like asking what is the most important ingrediant in baking a loaf of bread.
If I have to answer, I would say a long ladder to the top, or having a journey that is just as fun as end game.
I believe this is The key feature, and any game lacking this is destined to be boring, short sighted, and restrictive.
Look in the history of games with this, I found most of the games I remember as GOOD, we're Open World... hmm
Open worlds create Memorable events, plain and simple, otherwise you just have a stagnant, repetitive world, where most tasks are forgetten, and nothing memorable is experienced. IMO.
Originally posted by Razimus those who don't have Non-Instanced-Housing in their top 10 requirements for an MMO, or top 5 or 3 even, have likely never fully experienced it, there's nothing else like it, there is no comparison, it's like comparing a laser death ray weapon to throwing a rock, there's no comparison.
Or, just possibly, they've experienced it many times.
I've experienced games with enormous Customization, on a level MMOs can't ever achieve. Yet, somehow, I can play games that have less. Same for Roleplaying, or Community, or Intricate Combat, or Full-On Itemization or any other selling feature you can promote as number one indespensable.
Clearly, for a great many players, Housing is not number one.
Instead of assuming your audience's ignorance and inability to 'get' your point...why don't you express your point better, or more eloquently? It's a poor speaker who blames the audience for his inability to deliver a convincing thesis.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Non-instanced housing does little for me. Without PvP, it simply becomes either a blight on otherwise potentially interesting territory or it becomes a pointless trudge through other people who would rather stick to social cliques anyway. When PvP and power struggles come into play like Eve, the decision becomes one of whether to participate and make the game entirely about that power struggle or to ignore and scrape by with little to no territory.
I have a difficult time choosing what the #1 most important thing is, but I'm going to say it's "Being able to do what I want."
While I like a truly robust crafting system or at least something with a variety of professions which do useful things to gain money and power, it's simply one major boost to doing what I want. I've played games where there is little more than combat, yet I had the option to go where I wanted. Quests existed but they were not the means to levels nor were they mandatory aside from access to certain dungeons. Level 20 did not mean you were in the desert, it meant that you had the power of a level 20 and while most people would be comfortable fighting in the desert as the monsters there are meant to be a proper challenge, maybe the forest where level 10s hang out is still productive and yields useful drops. Perhaps I've got the gear and skills to take on the castle where level 40s play. That's my choice. I don't suffer from "You can't hit this enemy because you are too low level even if you should be able to crush it" or "This enemy is pointless for you to fight so you should just go to the next area" syndromes. Where I go is limited by what I can do, not what the rails tell me to.
I'd like to know that I can go to the places I like and bring who I want and we'll both get something out of it.
Players need a rerason to feel invested in the MMO. The need a reason to come online for considerable amounts of time and play for months. How you can achieve that is not easy to say.
I would go down the line of factional combat. I have never seen anything that built a sense friendship and allies as much as that. You need to be able to see your land as opposed to theirs, so WVW and Open world PvP is not the way to go.
Focusing on guilds like they did in AoC and combining that with the factional system of DAOC would be the best way to implement this.
Maybe you don't want to fight a war? How about crafting for a war, supplies and war machines, without you we could not win.
Maybe you don't like crafting? How about using diplomacy ala Vanguard to swing border towns to our side?
Give players a feeling they are needed, by their nation or race, by their guild and by their allies.
You received 25 Agrees. You're posting some good content. Great!
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Now Doesn't That Make You Feel All Warm And Fuzzy? :P
For me it's a beautiful explorable world. Exploration is A number 1 when it comes to MMOs for me.
edit: Sure I'd like non-instanced housing too (I even like instanced housing if it's good like EQ2), but it would have to have loads of craftable items and a profession of carpentry and open decorating not zoned decorating. So yeah....not gonna be seein' it soon.
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Originally posted by bunnyhopper Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by bunnyhopper
Only sounds good on paper. Is there an example of such game play?
Sure, i'll give and example.
There are a few games which have offered that, but here i'll just mention SWG. Now I am not going to start rose tinting about the game as others are wont to do, because it had major, major issues. Before anyone cites popularity and the fact the game tanked and died, well let's be honest with ourselves here, the housing system didn't cause that it is that kind of content which stopped the game from dying on it's arse earlier.
I clearly remember being involved in highly enjoyable player city and player base pvp in that game. We used to have 3 or 4 major pvp guilds on the server who would lay out their guild cities to be pvp centres. We would form alliances with other guilds and raid these player cities. It generated a great deal of content for the players from the combat aspect, through to the social aspect.
Other times we would drop factional bases within out cities and challenge others to try come and take them down. Player cities became a hotbed for pvp, from mass warfare to mini raids, to bragging rights. Guilds would go and try and lock off other guilds shuttle ports, people would drop houses and big old statues to funnel attackers etc.
I remember clearly our guild city being attacked out of the blue, gradually more and more guilds came to attack it and defend it. After several hours the pvp with masses of players on either side, ended up moving from player city, to starport, to other player cities before taking in points of interest. Just one massive running war which all came about from a small scale player city raid.
The thing is, that was all in a consensual pvp game with what was a fairly piss poor combat system, that is also without destroyable player buildings. And yet is still provided the best combat/pvp that went on in that game and some of the most memorable pvp I have had in mmos (and i've had alot!). Imagine what could be done now, but alas, it is just seen as "fluff".
Imagine that with destroyable player deployed content, with more focus on the combat side of player housing and the importance of them as pvp hubs (as well as the usual social features they add). Player towns which control game world areas, guilds making castles (space ports/whatever) and other people putting down houses near the castles for safety, whilst other guilds attack them. It is as clear as day that non instanced housing can offer a great deal.
All of that before you consider the social aspect of player housing, the importance to guilds and small player communities, the personal investment of the player within the game world, a direct connection which gives a sense of permanency and persistency.
But as you say, for the main part now that is on paper, which for me as a sad thing. It is such a shame that so many people and seemingly so many dev teams only consider houses as instanced, fluff spaces for people to put furniture they have got from a cash shop. It really can (and has before) offered so much more. Sadly exactly the same can be said of the genre as a whole.
Oddly, i kind of agree with you. However, i am NOT thinking about the social aspects, which i don't care much anyway. Have to "work with" other people and cannot just play at any time is a drag.
Anyway, i recently played a game called Orcs Must Die. Essentially it is a 3D tower defense game, with action combat. You can place traps and other stuff in the level, while you fight the orcs.
I think playing "housing" can play such a role. Combat-centric structure that are "owned" by players can add a bit to combat. Destroyable structure with the ability to customerize with healing station, turret, traps, locks ....
And it does not have to be just pvp. You can also send NPCs to attack the structure (like a tower defense game without a fix route).
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Originally posted by Grakulen I think it is inclusive gameplay. If the game doesn't make you want to play with other people then it might as well be a single player experiance.
"play with other people" is not the only reason why you need a MP game.
You can't trade in auction in a single player game.
You can't show off your gear in a single player game.
And some people play MMOs because of the more complex class/combat set up compared to single player game.
Not everyone play a MMO to "play" with others.
Originally posted by Mannish I think Everquest 2 has non instanced housing. Been a long time since I played so not really sure.
Actually no. EQ2 is instanced, you have a few places where you click on a door, or click on an object to zone into your house. Now I love my house in eq2 it is in Freeport, but it would be nice if they had a zone that was like a nieghborhood you could set your houses at. There are so many quests in eq2 there is litteraly not a place on any map that you could set a house down and not affect a quest.
SWG was the only one that i knew that you could place your house almost anywhere, and or city.
I think housing is the least important thing lol... Possibly even a detriment to a MMO, as it removes players from the city and makes the game feel desolate.
Though combat/gameplay is incredibly important to me, as this has been the reason I didn't stick with a couple games, I'm going to have to say character development is the most important. Statistical, fun and time consuming character development, post-max level... Through a combination of "gear treadmills" and alternate advancement (ala EQ/2). If there is no continued character progression, I generally don't take the game seriously and won't play for very long.
Most important thing in an RPG - is adventure In an MMO is the player base,that is what makes it be MMO.
I totally disagree, for me the most important thing in a MMORPG is community.
If people is polite or not, if players help other players or not, if players number (or base) is low or high: who care about housing or other ascpects if community lacks? Without communiti Massive Multiplayer are empty words.
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