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[Column] Rift: Surpassing Azeroth

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  • kalrhaelkalrhael Boston, MAPosts: 87Member

    woo now the wow-killers are rising from the grave to become wow-killers again. 

     

    Guys, SWTOR's 1.5, is going to be friggin amazing, I think it might have another shot and dethroning WOW. 

     

    Also, have you checkd out WAR resently? WOW is like toast, look at those updates man, look at them. 

     

    AOC, you thought you forgot about that game, eh? WEL ITS BACK, AND BETTER THAN EVER lol. :)  

     

  • HrimnirHrimnir Qeynos, COPosts: 1,597Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ZizouX

    Loved Rift for 5 months but one thing ruined it for me... Most of you will say it's a "stupid reason" but it was gamebreaking for me.  I never looked back.

     

    I couldn't stand the Macro system.  You could design a macro that incorporated 6 abilities in one, based on a priority / timer system.  As DPS or Tank, you could spam 5-6 macros that combined many abilities without any consequences.

     

    Most of you would say, "you don't have to do that," but the efficiency in doing so is unmistakable.  Trying getting owned in pvp without using the macros or doing pve content without doing that.

     

    It just really killed an otherwise awesome game.  I'm a huge Hartman fan... i hope this game does really well even if i'm not going to be playing (Gw2 and FFXIV) will be my MMOS.

    Well, your wish has been granted.  For some reason with 1.11 they decided to totally redo all the combat mechanics and now you literally have to have minimum of 2 and in some specs 3 hotbars worth of abilities that you have to cycle through in very specific orders to be effective.

    Apparently they want us to play the UI and not the game.

    "The surest way to corrupt a youth is to instruct him to hold in higher esteem those who think alike than those who think differently."

    - Friedrich Nietzsche

  • kadepsysonkadepsyson sun prairie, WIPosts: 1,937Member

    "Rift: Surpassing Azeroth"

    So an MMORPG is surpassing a map?  or what

    El Psy Congroo

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    "Rift: Surpassing Azeroth"

    So an MMORPG is surpassing a map?  or what

    Imagery can be confusing, especially for the overtly literal.  He's drawing a comparison between Trion and Blizzard using imagery to illustrate his opinion that the former is surpassing the latter in quality of service.  I hope that helps clear up the confusion for you.

  • RaventreeRaventree Yourtown, MNPosts: 456Member
    Originally posted by kadepsyson

    "Rift: Surpassing Azeroth"

    So an MMORPG is surpassing a map?  or what

    Why do I get the impression the only thing you read is the title?  Reading comprehension FTW.  lol

    Seriously though, I played WoW for years and have to agree with the article completely.  Trion puts out so many incredible updates so fast and somehow is also cranking out what is going to be an amazing expansion at the same time.  It is really impressive and what brought me back after I initially tried it and then wandered back off.  This kind of exceptional player service needs to be supported.

    Currently playing:
    Rift
    Played:
    SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
    World of Warcraft, AoC

  • GwapoJoshGwapoJosh Auburn, INPosts: 991Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kalrhael

    woo now the wow-killers are rising from the grave to become wow-killers again. 

     

    Guys, SWTOR's 1.5, is going to be friggin amazing, I think it might have another shot and dethroning WOW. 

     

    Also, have you checkd out WAR resently? WOW is like toast, look at those updates man, look at them. 

     

    AOC, you thought you forgot about that game, eh? WEL ITS BACK, AND BETTER THAN EVER lol. :)  

     

    I wish SWTOR all the best, but there is no way a single patch is gonna fix it and get more subs than WoW..

    "You are all going to poop yourselves." BillMurphy
    image

  • lamsailamsai red deer, ABPosts: 2Member

    1)the new player housing is insane,the devs built  an 3 mast sailing ship board by board

    2)in today's 1.11 update they revamped all the souls and no calling can have a 4 button macro"i win" setup

    3)pvp wise storm legion is adding 2 new conquest maps and 2 new war zones. storm legion is adding 10 more prestige lvls

    4)item shop only sells fluff/name/guild changes or items and exp potions atm. i believe scott needed to show investors that rift  -could generate income fast.so at one time for 10$ you could get spider mount and summon an mailbox skill.many my friends  -and guildmates bought this to show support for trion

    5) character  lvl raised to lvl 60 and guild lvl raised to lvl 25 plus 4 new souls,one for each calling

    6) end game content. 5 new dungeons and 3 new raids and a total of 60 hunt rifts you can progress through

  • IstavaanIstavaan CorkPosts: 1,350Member
    It's still an end game raiding mmo like wow. if they focused more on invasions instead of trying to be wow it would have been so much better.
  • lamsailamsai red deer, ABPosts: 2Member
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    It's still an end game raiding mmo like wow. if they focused more on invasions instead of trying to be wow it would have been so much better.

    not true you can get end game gear with the inscribed sourcestones from rifts and zone events from the epic planar gear merchant.it is just a huge time sink compared to raiding

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by lamsai
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    It's still an end game raiding mmo like wow. if they focused more on invasions instead of trying to be wow it would have been so much better.

    not true you can get end game gear with the inscribed sourcestones from rifts and zone events from the epic planar gear merchant.it is just a huge time sink compared to raiding

    People remember back when they played Rift back in it's early days, probably even before EI, and think that's what end game is like now.

  • catlanacatlana Houston, TXPosts: 1,677Member
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    It's still an end game raiding mmo like wow. if they focused more on invasions instead of trying to be wow it would have been so much better.

    Trion has actually been the innovator in raid fights recently. Several recent WoW raids have had fights were pretty dam close to fights in Rift raids released months earlier. The Trion devs have been nothing short of amazing on thier fairly small budget. I am looking forward to the expansion.  

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member
    Originally posted by CujoSWAoA

    WoW has a spell over a lot of people who don't even know Rift exists.  People who don't come to this website and never will come to this website.  Who don't thirst for gaming news or information on "other titles".  Who have no interest in trying something else...  I've witnessed it on a personal level in several different individuals.

    Rift will never have that.

    And thats WoW's unfair advantage.

    I totally agree that this happens on a moment-by-moment basis, but I also think that over the entire course of an individual's gaming career, it is inevitable that every single person takes a break from thier MMO of choice or seeks to leave for good.  Then, perhaps, during that time, they look elsewhere.  My honest guess would be that exactly ZERO percent of players who played WoW at launch have played consistently straight through to present day.  

    Sure, when players are in the middle of that period where they are utterly engrossed in WoW, they wouldn't evne consider looking elsewhere.  But that period does not last forever for anyone.  And the same was true for popular MMOs that preceded WoW. 

  • BadSpockBadSpock Somewhere, MIPosts: 7,974Member

    If RIFT improved the combat to the level of fun and speed/skill requirement of something like GW2 or TERA then it would probably be a game I'd go back to without question.

    As it stands now (at least the last time I played Rift a month or so ago) the combat is slower and more tediusly boring than even TOR, which says a lot because TOR combat brought new meaning to the term "boring."

    RIFT needs a major Combat Upgrade - keep the Trinity and role based combat but for the love of God speed it up and remove the bloat of having 8 bars full of "use once in a great while" skills.

    It's 2012, not 2004.

     

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by lamsai
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    It's still an end game raiding mmo like wow. if they focused more on invasions instead of trying to be wow it would have been so much better.

    not true you can get end game gear with the inscribed sourcestones from rifts and zone events from the epic planar gear merchant.it is just a huge time sink compared to raiding

    People remember back when they played Rift back in it's early days, probably even before EI, and think that's what end game is like now.

    And then there are people who think the above comment is anything different than WoW.  Where do you think the idea for inscirbed sourcestones came from?  Valor Points.

     

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by lamsai
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    It's still an end game raiding mmo like wow. if they focused more on invasions instead of trying to be wow it would have been so much better.

    not true you can get end game gear with the inscribed sourcestones from rifts and zone events from the epic planar gear merchant.it is just a huge time sink compared to raiding

    People remember back when they played Rift back in it's early days, probably even before EI, and think that's what end game is like now.

    Yeah that must be it, people with a distant one year old memory.  You talk like it was so long ago.

    Even though they throw the ISS crowd a few bones under a huge grind (way way more than raiding for equivalent), it's still second servings compared to the raid stuff.  All of the very best stuff and real progression is locked squarely behind raiding even now.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon

    If its been a year since you played rift youve missed about 7 major updates to the game.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    If its been a year since you played rift youve missed about 7 major updates to the game.

     

    1.6 - Major (EI) Nov 2011

    1.7 - minor (PvP rank adjustments, weddings) Feb 2012

    1.8 - major (ID, Survival/Fishing) April 2012

    1.9 - major (conquest, sliver, mentoring) June 2012.  released too soon as conquest causes major issues for server performance

    1.10 minor - (Defiant and Guardians can be friends) - september 2012

    1.11 expansion pre patch - (storm legion talents, a storm legion dungeon...WoW would call this 2.0.1) today

     

    so, 3 major, 2 minor.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by lamsai
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    It's still an end game raiding mmo like wow. if they focused more on invasions instead of trying to be wow it would have been so much better.

    not true you can get end game gear with the inscribed sourcestones from rifts and zone events from the epic planar gear merchant.it is just a huge time sink compared to raiding

    People remember back when they played Rift back in it's early days, probably even before EI, and think that's what end game is like now.

    Yeah that must be it, people with a distant one year old memory.  You talk like it was so long ago.

    Even though they throw the ISS crowd a few bones under a huge grind (way way more than raiding for equivalent), it's still second servings compared to the raid stuff.  All of the very best stuff and real progression is locked squarely behind raiding even now.

    Well, maybe I should have been clear. It's not about time, it's about the content added (In such a short period of time)

    As far as the BiS raid stuff. So what? I'm one of those ISS people. That's how I've gotten my gear. And for the content I do, I'm as good as any top tier geared Raider. You think they kill mobs in Experts any faster than I do? No. You think the fact that their 2 shotting a level 50 standard world mob does more DPS than my 2 shotting a standard level 50 world mob makes much difference? No. The only place their top tier gear has any weight is in the top tier raids. Everywhere else, it's just overkill and provides little if any benefit.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by umcorian

    "This is going to be a short column because my point is pretty simple: Trion Worlds’ Rift, especially with Storm Legion coming out in November, is surpassing World of Warcraft at its own game."

    Holy macrol... is that a bold statement. One I cannot possibly disagree with more.

    Instant adventures, and a move toward the sandbox? WoW has had Dungeon Finder since WOTLK. That was the first "instant adventure". Now, with MoP, it has scenarios too which are exactly what Instant Adventures are. I don't see how that's beating WoW at its own game. WoW has adapted quite well, incorperating everything Rift has done well and improving it.

    both of your examples are instanced - closed off from other players

     

    Instant Adventures are *not* instanced

    http://rift.zam.com/wiki/Instant_Adventure_%28Rift%29

    Like an instance, you queue up and you get teleported to the target zone. It is not an instance of the zone so there are still other things happening around you but you and your raid will have a series of objectives that run you all over the zone. As you finish each you get quest XP (3,540 per quest) and a new quest. The number of mobs you are asked to kill scales up as more players join the raid. Each quest can also take place in several different areas.

     

    I still don't see why IAs are discussed so much.  Do people that play Rift actually enjoy them on a semi-regular basis?  Its perfect for when you have 20 minutes to kill and want to do something fast, but they get old FAST (to me anyway) if you do more than one or two in a row.

     

    And while scenarios are closer to chronicles than IAs, they are something Blizzard is experimenting with.  They have already said that they could be scaled to provide content for 40+ players which to me sounds like dropping hints of things to come.

     

    Scenarios are kind of inbetween solo play and dungeons.  Some are amusing, but they dont have lasting value as of yet.  System has potential though (much like chronicles)

  • ThaneThane berlinPosts: 2,232Member Uncommon

    uuuh an mmo with housing! i totally see why you think adding a feature that daoc already had like 10 years ago makes some unbalanced game with completely boring pvp surpasses wow.

     

    uh wait, i dont. sorry, my mistake

    "I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Nadia
    Originally posted by umcorian

    "This is going to be a short column because my point is pretty simple: Trion Worlds’ Rift, especially with Storm Legion coming out in November, is surpassing World of Warcraft at its own game."

    Holy macrol... is that a bold statement. One I cannot possibly disagree with more.

    Instant adventures, and a move toward the sandbox? WoW has had Dungeon Finder since WOTLK. That was the first "instant adventure". Now, with MoP, it has scenarios too which are exactly what Instant Adventures are. I don't see how that's beating WoW at its own game. WoW has adapted quite well, incorperating everything Rift has done well and improving it.

    both of your examples are instanced - closed off from other players

     

    Instant Adventures are *not* instanced

    http://rift.zam.com/wiki/Instant_Adventure_%28Rift%29

    Like an instance, you queue up and you get teleported to the target zone. It is not an instance of the zone so there are still other things happening around you but you and your raid will have a series of objectives that run you all over the zone. As you finish each you get quest XP (3,540 per quest) and a new quest. The number of mobs you are asked to kill scales up as more players join the raid. Each quest can also take place in several different areas.

     

    I still don't see why IAs are discussed so much.  Do people that play Rift actually enjoy them on a semi-regular basis?  Its perfect for when you have 20 minutes to kill and want to do something fast, but they get old FAST (to me anyway) if you do more than one or two in a row.

     

    And while scenarios are closer to chronicles than IAs, they are something Blizzard is experimenting with.  They have already said that they could be scaled to provide content for 40+ players which to me sounds like dropping hints of things to come.

     

    Scenarios are kind of inbetween solo play and dungeons.  Some are amusing, but they dont have lasting value as of yet.  System has potential though (much like chronicles)

    IAs are a good source of XP for Planar Atunemt as well as a decent way to accumulate ISS between Zone Events. I can usually rotate through zones to do them so it doesn't become so repeative, but yeah, they do get old after a while, But I that's the nature of MMOs in general where everything has to cycle.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by lamsai
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    It's still an end game raiding mmo like wow. if they focused more on invasions instead of trying to be wow it would have been so much better.

    not true you can get end game gear with the inscribed sourcestones from rifts and zone events from the epic planar gear merchant.it is just a huge time sink compared to raiding

    People remember back when they played Rift back in it's early days, probably even before EI, and think that's what end game is like now.

    Yeah that must be it, people with a distant one year old memory.  You talk like it was so long ago.

    Even though they throw the ISS crowd a few bones under a huge grind (way way more than raiding for equivalent), it's still second servings compared to the raid stuff.  All of the very best stuff and real progression is locked squarely behind raiding even now.

    Well, maybe I should have been clear. It's not about time, it's about the content added (In such a short period of time)

    As far as the BiS raid stuff. So what? I'm one of those ISS people. That's how I've gotten my gear. And for the content I do, I'm as good as any top tier geared Raider. You think they kill mobs in Experts any faster than I do? No. You think the fact that their 2 shotting a level 50 standard world mob does more DPS than my 2 shotting a standard level 50 world mob makes much difference? No. The only place their top tier gear has any weight is in the top tier raids. Everywhere else, it's just overkill and provides little if any benefit.

    No, I don't think players in bis do better.  I know they do better.  Run master modes and it's easy to tell.  Run regular content and you might need a parser, but the better geared person is going to do things a moderately geared player can't as easily.

    On top of that the grind for ISS items is so insane compared to dungeon running that ISS players are rarely close to being geared out.

    All of that doesn't matter though. It *is* a raiding game at the end of the day.  Maybe you're happy with second hand progression, but I'm not.  And that is what the raiding beef always boils down to.

  • phantomghostphantomghost Atlanta, GAPosts: 696Member Uncommon

    I played WoW longer, but I never really enjoyed the game.   I never cared for questing to level up.

     

    Rift was very similar... I did enjoy the game a little more but primarily because I did not really quest...I just did the instances.. of course nobody was ever LFG so it got boring.

    Same thing with SWTOR... I almost only did  instances to group to level.. but again minimal grouping.

     

    If I had to say of the three WoW games/clones I did enjoy rift the most.

    photo SIG_zpszteuyd0ejpg
  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,596Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Torvaldr
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by lamsai
    Originally posted by Istavaan
    It's still an end game raiding mmo like wow. if they focused more on invasions instead of trying to be wow it would have been so much better.

    not true you can get end game gear with the inscribed sourcestones from rifts and zone events from the epic planar gear merchant.it is just a huge time sink compared to raiding

    People remember back when they played Rift back in it's early days, probably even before EI, and think that's what end game is like now.

    Yeah that must be it, people with a distant one year old memory.  You talk like it was so long ago.

    Even though they throw the ISS crowd a few bones under a huge grind (way way more than raiding for equivalent), it's still second servings compared to the raid stuff.  All of the very best stuff and real progression is locked squarely behind raiding even now.

    Well, maybe I should have been clear. It's not about time, it's about the content added (In such a short period of time)

    As far as the BiS raid stuff. So what? I'm one of those ISS people. That's how I've gotten my gear. And for the content I do, I'm as good as any top tier geared Raider. You think they kill mobs in Experts any faster than I do? No. You think the fact that their 2 shotting a level 50 standard world mob does more DPS than my 2 shotting a standard level 50 world mob makes much difference? No. The only place their top tier gear has any weight is in the top tier raids. Everywhere else, it's just overkill and provides little if any benefit.

    No, I don't think players in bis do better.  I know they do better.  Run master modes and it's easy to tell.  Run regular content and you might need a parser, but the better geared person is going to do things a moderately geared player can't as easily.

    On top of that the grind for ISS items is so insane compared to dungeon running that ISS players are rarely close to being geared out.

    All of that doesn't matter though. It *is* a raiding game at the end of the day.  Maybe you're happy with second hand progression, but I'm not.  And that is what the raiding beef always boils down to.

    So this is really about the fact that other people are taking advantage of opportunities that you dont't and they reap the reward that you choose not to. And now you feel you can't compete equally in the other areas and that bothers you.

    I don't share that sentiment, but I think I understand it. And I guess from that perspective, GW2 really does offer an alternative for you.

    But I have always felt that  MMORPGs were about equal opprotunity. And that they are about making your own way and building something.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,221Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Torvaldr

    No, I don't think players in bis do better.  I know they do better.  Run master modes and it's easy to tell.  Run regular content and you might need a parser, but the better geared person is going to do things a moderately geared player can't as easily.

    On top of that the grind for ISS items is so insane compared to dungeon running that ISS players are rarely close to being geared out.

    All of that doesn't matter though. It *is* a raiding game at the end of the day.  Maybe you're happy with second hand progression, but I'm not.  And that is what the raiding beef always boils down to.

    So this is really about the fact that other people are taking advantage of opportunities that you dont't and they reap the reward that you choose not to. And now you feel you can't compete equally in the other areas and that bothers you.

    I don't share that sentiment, but I think I understand it. And I guess from that perspective, GW2 really does offer an alternative for you.

    But I have always felt that  MMORPGs were about equal opprotunity. And that they are about making your own way and building something.

    It's not about missed opportunities or envy at all.  I did take advantage of the opportunities.  I've raided and got my gear and I've ground out ISS.  That was just to point out that the game is, at its core, still totally raid centric.  I have lots of friends who raid and like that, but I don't anymore.

    GW2 does offer me a raid free game play and I like that.  I also like item and stat progression games, just not via raids.  Progression is fun.  I like the illusion of getting more powerful and marking achievements of all sorts, just not in raids anymore.  The ISS grind, crafting, and other play avenues should offer the opportunity to make your way and build the character, *your* way.

    To me, that really would have passed what WoW and EQ2 (I kind of see RIFT as a blend of those two games maybe with a little EQ thrown in to boot) have to offer.

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