Originally posted by Robokapp Op will never recognise true skill even if it's right in front of him...he could be playing chess online with kasparov and laugh at the concept of true skill...
This is about as on target as you can get.
Would you care to explain why? Validating other's thoughts isn't very informative to others unless you specify why you agree. You might as well just not post if you do not want to share your own thoughts.
Administrator: Einstein gives a lecture on Quantumy Science, and sits down. Yizle, would you like to present your lecture on Quantumy Science?
Yizle: What he said. I agree. Exactly what he said. *sits down, expecting a reward*
*4 hours later*
Yizle: Why did Einstein get cookies and not me? My lecture was epic.
I laughed so hard at this i almost spit out my tea at the monitor LOL!!!
Do I believe I have "true skill"? Only if I can stop laughing at the idea of someone claiming "true skill" in a video game...lol...
Coming from someone who has been there, done that, and come home with a collection of forced rage quitting enemies and top player wins, I can honestly tell you: There is no difference in "player skill" in a game like Counterstrike or Starcraft than any other video game. In fact, most people will probably brag about those two simply for the fact they were so popular.
It's true it's about the same as claiming there's skill involved in the heavily mod'ed heavily macro'd modified by armor stats PVP we see in games like WoW. Just doesn't exist really. I can see that and I don't even pvp....:)
It kindof takes the fun out of competitive play, when you realize you only won due to the person being younger than you, or only lost due to them having hundreds of hours more free time to play their game.
Exactly, sorta brings perspective to the PVE epeens as well, there's alot of this nonsense about how awesome someone is just because they had more time and less of a real life to spend gathering all the assundry nonsense to put together a legendary. smh
LOL, thank you. I appreciate intelligent people, especially when confronted with so much the opposite.
Could you elaborate more on this "True Skill" belief? When I read it I think of 'random talent' that players get from playing other games and I know that is not the correct assumption.
Or are you stating that just because a person is good in CS, DotA, or some other game, doesn't mean they are good in new game X, Y, or Z?
Anyways, you still need a certain amount of skill to be good, but the skill required is much much less. The average monkey behind a keyboard could do well at the latter, but not everyone can do well with the former.
I consider reaction time, tactical thinking, anticipating, surrounding awareness and knowledge as skills . These can be applied (partly) to any situation. Including games.
That some of these (like game knowledge) are only applicable in that specific game, is besides the point. It is still a skill in that you can measure yourself against someone else's skill in that field. For the definition of the word skill, it doesn't matter if it is about games or something more 'serious'.
The problem usually lies in what specific skill people are discussing. Often it is not even explained and ppl just end up discussing different kinds of skill.
As for 'True skill'. That just doesn't make sense apart from just using it as silly hyperbole. You are either comparing skills or not. There is no need to classify certain skills. It is besides the point.
Anyways, you still need a certain amount of skill to be good, but the skill required is much much less. The average monkey behind a keyboard could do well at the latter, but not everyone can do well with the former.
This is what I mean. What this poster wrote doesn't even make sense. Classic apples vs oranges. Comparing fps with rts is useless if you are talking about skills. Both require different sets of skills. If you are great at starcraft you can still suck at a fps and the other way around. This should be obvious lol.
Anyways, you still need a certain amount of skill to be good, but the skill required is much much less. The average monkey behind a keyboard could do well at the latter, but not everyone can do well with the former.
This is what I mean. What this poster wrote doesn't even make sense. Classic apples vs oranges. Comparing fps with rts is useless if you are talking about skills. Both require different sets of skills. If you are great at starcraft you can still suck at a fps and the other way around. This should be obvious lol.
It doesn't make sense?
Exactly. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. The entire OP is ABOUT people like "Coated".
CS1.6 or Starcraft? You have TRUE SKILL!
Play other games? You don't even KNOW what true skill is!
This is the "True Skill" that I am stating doesn't exist. This guy is the epitome of the OP. The epitome of the Hilarious Myth. The epitome of "True Skill".
To expand on what I meant: I was referring to the skill cap.
StarCraft and most of the Counter-Strikes have extremely high individual skill caps. League of Legends, DoTA and mobas in general do not but have extremely high team skill caps.
It's really hard to define as the concept is abstract but it's why MMO PvP will never be taken seriously (no matter how hard Blizzard tires to push it or pay ppl to take it).
But you know what, I could have said something that made a lot more sense: true skill and balls are involved in knee dragging at 120km/h on a Fireblade; not in the virtual world. However, I assume that nerds like me are extremely rare and that most are going to Google wtf is a Fireblade is. Mentioning that would be out of context...which I just did.
EDIT: Oops, knee drag on highway ramps, what I said was probably not explicit enough for the non-riders to understand.
i agree with the OP slightly the only difference i would say in opinion is that everyone has their limit and no amount of practice will ever get you past that limit, and what i believe decides that limitation are both Reflex and IQ to be able to quickly adapt to any situation is obviously important but the split seconds to react and ability within those seconds to choose the best possible course of action can make a huge difference.
Originally posted by OSF8759 Do not try to pwn the n00b. That's impossible. Instead, only realize the truth. There is no n00b. Then you'll see, that it is not the n00b that is pwnd, it is only yourself.
lol
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by Robokapp Op will never recognise true skill even if it's right in front of him...he could be playing chess online with kasparov and laugh at the concept of true skill...
I dunno, "true skill" sounds like a buzzword to differ the game you do best against other games.
Skill exist of course and in MMO it is skill, gear and level that usually matter but "true" just seems to be bullocks.
There are different types of skill indeed, some people have natural abilities that makes them good from the start while others have to train a lot to be good (Kasparov have both).
I agree with a lot of what the OP and a few others are saying.
For those who seem to be getting confused by a whole lot of text, here is a simplified version.
There is not 1 type of game that is the only type that requires "true skill" to play. Playing and being good at 1 type does not magically mean you have "true skill" and people who play another type of game arent as skilled as you.
They require being good at completely different skillsets, but all of them require at least bits of what it takes to excel in other types.
For example:
MMOs typically revolve more around things like min/maxing builds (and understanding the mathematics behind everyting), understanding, memorizing, and executing the best sequence of skills for each situation. Many games also require a lot of memorizing / being aware of your surroundings and knowing how to use the terrain to your advantage (like to break LoS when getting focused by several people and fool them into coming around at you 1 at a time). MMORPGS focus less in "twitch" skill or fast reflexes, however they do play small part. The guys who are slower to react, move around when needed, pop off quick heals when they are most crucial, etc will typically die a lot. They also require you knwoing your enemy's capabilities and being able to predict and counter what they might use against you.
FPS games focus a lot more on twitch skills, reflexes, accuracy, etc. But they do also require some of what MMORPGs require. Memorizing maps, utilizing terrain for hiding / ambushin, setting up strategic choke points, etc. Though they may not require actual min/maxing of stats, you do still need to be very aware of things like which types of weapons are best suited for certain types of maps & situations, the accuracy, firing speed, etc. You'll see a lot of people who dont understand these things running around using every gun like a noob cannon, just firing off entire clips of ammo and barely managing to kill 1 person, or trying to use fast firing automatic weapons set to full auto trying to pick off people at long range. Then you'll see those guys dong things like taking a silenced pistol charging in and murdering the guy trying to unload a clip on him and not getting hit in the process, or a "weak" rifle with low firepower just sitting back in the distance popping off 1 round at a time taking someone down with a headshot 3/4 or more of the time. These are the guys who understand their weapon, and the enemy's weapons very well. They know how to maximize their killing power while conserving ammo, avoid getting hit by the enemies while in a hail of gunfire, and are able to easily pick up on habits and predict where the enemy will go and what they will do so they can pick off moving targets with a single shot.
Not going to go into the whole RTS thing, enough ranting already. But point is, all types of games require similar types of skills throughout them, but obviously excelling in one skillset gives you more of an advantage in a particular type. It doesnt mean you're "more skilled" than anyone in any other type of game, just that you have more skill in the particular area being emphasized in that game.
Some of us are fortunate enough to be quite well balanced and capable of performing all skillsets quite well. Might not be the best in an individual aspect but good enough in all of them that the combination makes you better overall. Those are the guys you will see who just kick the shit out of their competition on a daily basis wether it be fps, rts, or MMO. The guys who just hop into a new game and master it very quickly. Not the guys who are all like 'Im so much more skilled than you." then you say "OK come fight me in my game" and all of a sudden theyre like "But thats not my game that Im awesome at. Its unfair". The really skilled people will kick your ass regardless of game once they get the basics down.
People ask me why I don't want to join a PVP server. This is exactly why lol. Bickering who is the best and the leetest and coolest and haz da most skillz. I don't see this in PVE.
Originally posted by Waterlily People ask me why I don't want to join a PVP server. This is exactly why lol. Bickering who is the best and the leetest and coolest and haz da most skillz. I don't see this in PVE.
Really?
"OMG your GS isnt over 9000! U R such a n00b. You suck so bad"
or
"OMG you couldnt solo that boss in epic gear? I owned him in 5 seconds completely naked with a broken stick. L2P n00b!"
People are e-peen measuring asshats regardless of type of game.
Originally posted by Waterlily People ask me why I don't want to join a PVP server. This is exactly why lol. Bickering who is the best and the leetest and coolest and haz da most skillz. I don't see this in PVE.
Really?
"OMG your GS isnt over 9000! U R such a n00b. You suck so bad"
or
"OMG you couldnt solo that boss in epic gear? I owned him in 5 seconds completely naked with a broken stick. L2P n00b!"
People are e-peen measuring asshats regardless of type of game.
Yes but pvp servers still have arguing about gear score, epics and bosses as well as people bickering over "skills" .
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by Spennet I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but I guess it has something to do with your disbelief in the existence of a universal video game skill aka. "true skill". The mastering of any skill can be simplified to the following equation: time x learningfactor = proficiency. This learningfactor is what's generally known as talent - or in this case - "true skill". So the question is: Does this exists across various PvP games? I would say yes. For instance there certainly exist people who learns strategy games faster than the average individual. That being said, if there exists a pretty large gap between the amount of time two players have dedicated to playing a certain game; the player with the most amount of time spent will probably always beat the other player (unless the other player is the Bob Fischer of video games).
Problem is that your equation is only accurate to a certain point, because at a certain point, you simply can't become better even if you spend all time in the world due to certain talent being required.
True Skill is trying to find a game that you really like.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Originally posted by Spennet I'm not really sure what you're trying to say, but I guess it has something to do with your disbelief in the existence of a universal video game skill aka. "true skill". The mastering of any skill can be simplified to the following equation: time x learningfactor = proficiency. This learningfactor is what's generally known as talent - or in this case - "true skill". So the question is: Does this exists across various PvP games? I would say yes. For instance there certainly exist people who learns strategy games faster than the average individual. That being said, if there exists a pretty large gap between the amount of time two players have dedicated to playing a certain game; the player with the most amount of time spent will probably always beat the other player (unless the other player is the Bob Fischer of video games).
Problem is that your equation is only accurate to a certain point, because at a certain point, you simply can't become better even if you spend all time in the world due to certain talent being required.
Agree. This is especially true in FPS games, since they rely the most on twitch skill and reflexes.
Yes you can develop and improve your skill / reflexes over time, but everyone has a limit or plateau to how far they will get. Ive played with people who are playing an FPS for several hours a day every day for months on end, who still suck at the game because they lack the quick thinking and reflexes needed. Then I run into other people who pick up that same game, have been playing for a week and just kick the shit out of me regularly. Everyone has a different skill / learning curve.
I had a guy like this in my clan on Ghost Recon 2. Ran into the guy his 3rd day playing the game. At the time I was #1 ranked in kills in the entire game as well as holding #1 rank in score in 2 out of 3 game modes, and was leading a clan full of other top 10 spot holders and we were ranked #1 on the gamebattles ladders and on our way to the semifinals of a tournament. Dude comes into the lobby we were in, playing the opposite team as me. Everywhere I went I was dropping people in my way, and here is this guy sitting back picking me off nearly every time with a single shot to the head. Ran into him a few more times over that week and he just consistently kept it up. Ended up recruiting him to the clan and he became one of our most valuable assets in large maps allowing him to snipe. He was very sneaky / great at hiding & using terrain, and had a crazy headshot skill. Awesome thing is, this guy also went on to get a job at Redstorm and worked on Ghost Recon Future Soldier as a level designer.
Other people have the talent to be exceptional players, but it takes them longer to develop.
Like the story above, there was another clanmate of mine from Rainbow Six 3 (before GR2) who fit this to a T. He had been playing about a month when he ran into me for the 1st time. I normally ran uneven matches, me or me + 1 vs everyone else, with me using just a silenced 9 MM pistol and them running whatever they want. At first you could tell he was kind of frustrated cause I was just kicking the crap out of his team over and over. But we got along OK and ended up friending eachother in game. I admit, he was pretty bad at the game at that time. Over the next few weeks he kept coming into my matches, but was always on the other side. One day I asked him "Why dont you ever join my team" and he said "Because you will kill them all anyway and I will just do nothing and keep sucking. I would rather fight against you and learn how to beat you so I can get better". Which he very much did. He spent 90% of his time playing opposite me, andif nobody else was around we would spend hours just 1 v 1 against eachother and I would give him advice. After about 3 months of playing with me & my clan regularly, he finally felt he was good enough and asked if he could join us. We put him through our usual series of pass/fail tests to see if he had what it takes, and he passed with flying colors and got accepted. He changed his name, added our clan tag, etc. The next day I go online, hop into a match, and when seeing my tag people start asking "Hey arent you in the same clan as that Reservoir guy?" Im like "Yeah. Why?" and they all start talking about how he was in there a couple hours ago just stomping the shit out of everyone nonstop and how the host at the time got pissed off and kicked him from their server. After that I kept hearing his name a lot when I joined other people's matches, and most people who knew us refused to play if me and him were on the same team together. He also came to GR2 with us, and it took him a bit longer to adjust to the game, but eventually he started moving up in the ranks and caught up with the rest of us.
It always took him longer, but because of the similar limits all of my clanmates shared, when he hit that plateau he was just about as good as any of us. It didnt matter which of us was better faster, because we all hit the top of our game at some point, and some of us played a lot more than others. Time spent playing became irrelevant once we were all at that point.
TLDR version: Some people develop their skills very quickly, almost instantly. Others take a lot of time and work to develop their skills. But regardless of which type you are, everyone has a point where they have reached the "peak" of their abilities. You might get slightly better with more time afte rthat point, but it is very tiny increases. That peak is different for everyone, and some players will wind up being better than others in the end. But that peak exists for all of us.
Originally posted by Waterlily People ask me why I don't want to join a PVP server. This is exactly why lol. Bickering who is the best and the leetest and coolest and haz da most skillz. I don't see this in PVE.
If chest-thumping and swagger get on your nerves, you just won't be able to stomach any pvp forum for very long. :shrug:
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
"There are desperate housewives who play WoW, who are so much better than you (and me)"
If you know any, be a pal and do the introductions.
Of course games require skill, this is a thread about what skill is and it does not mean the same thing to all people. I regard a FPS shooter as taking more skill than a typical MMO. But that "skill" may be just finding a good hiding place to snip from or upgrading your weapon so you can shine a flashlight in someone’s eyes and bind them in daylight (B3). Alternatively it may be good marksmanship; both types of "skill" are to be found.
MMO’s tend to rely on memory more than a FPS, you need to know how to do things more than practice them to be perfect. Not so much as being able to do something in game better, but knowing the best way to attack, to even shop!
But in life you will find some people are better at some things, that’s the way it goes. Being great in games wins kudos from your mates. Being great in business, science or art will take you much further. So I suggest you get your “skills” spruced up in those rather than just games.
Comments
Would you care to explain why? Validating other's thoughts isn't very informative to others unless you specify why you agree. You might as well just not post if you do not want to share your own thoughts.
Administrator: Einstein gives a lecture on Quantumy Science, and sits down. Yizle, would you like to present your lecture on Quantumy Science?
Yizle: What he said. I agree. Exactly what he said. *sits down, expecting a reward*
*4 hours later*
Yizle: Why did Einstein get cookies and not me? My lecture was epic.
Someone please knock me out...
LOL, thank you. I appreciate intelligent people, especially when confronted with so much the opposite.
roflmao...thank you for the laugh.
Could you elaborate more on this "True Skill" belief? When I read it I think of 'random talent' that players get from playing other games and I know that is not the correct assumption.
Or are you stating that just because a person is good in CS, DotA, or some other game, doesn't mean they are good in new game X, Y, or Z?
In terms of skill needed -
Starcraft>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>FPS>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>LoL,HoN,DoTA,MMORPG's.
Anyways, you still need a certain amount of skill to be good, but the skill required is much much less. The average monkey behind a keyboard could do well at the latter, but not everyone can do well with the former.
I consider reaction time, tactical thinking, anticipating, surrounding awareness and knowledge as skills . These can be applied (partly) to any situation. Including games.
That some of these (like game knowledge) are only applicable in that specific game, is besides the point. It is still a skill in that you can measure yourself against someone else's skill in that field. For the definition of the word skill, it doesn't matter if it is about games or something more 'serious'.
The problem usually lies in what specific skill people are discussing. Often it is not even explained and ppl just end up discussing different kinds of skill.
As for 'True skill'. That just doesn't make sense apart from just using it as silly hyperbole. You are either comparing skills or not. There is no need to classify certain skills. It is besides the point.
This is what I mean. What this poster wrote doesn't even make sense. Classic apples vs oranges. Comparing fps with rts is useless if you are talking about skills. Both require different sets of skills. If you are great at starcraft you can still suck at a fps and the other way around. This should be obvious lol.
It doesn't make sense?
Exactly. This is EXACTLY what I am talking about. The entire OP is ABOUT people like "Coated".
CS1.6 or Starcraft? You have TRUE SKILL!
Play other games? You don't even KNOW what true skill is!
This is the "True Skill" that I am stating doesn't exist. This guy is the epitome of the OP. The epitome of the Hilarious Myth. The epitome of "True Skill".
Probably the best and most accurate post in this whole thread.
lol
lol this likely refers to the topic I made.
To expand on what I meant: I was referring to the skill cap.
StarCraft and most of the Counter-Strikes have extremely high individual skill caps. League of Legends, DoTA and mobas in general do not but have extremely high team skill caps.
It's really hard to define as the concept is abstract but it's why MMO PvP will never be taken seriously (no matter how hard Blizzard tires to push it or pay ppl to take it).
But you know what, I could have said something that made a lot more sense: true skill and balls are involved in knee dragging at 120km/h on a Fireblade; not in the virtual world. However, I assume that nerds like me are extremely rare and that most are going to Google wtf is a Fireblade is. Mentioning that would be out of context...which I just did.
EDIT: Oops, knee drag on highway ramps, what I said was probably not explicit enough for the non-riders to understand.
Nice post OP.
I would like to offer a piece of wisdom to all claiming to have "True Skill" tm in any game:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%E2%80%93Kruger_effect
p.s. yes, yes I know this aplies to everyone but you
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I dunno, "true skill" sounds like a buzzword to differ the game you do best against other games.
Skill exist of course and in MMO it is skill, gear and level that usually matter but "true" just seems to be bullocks.
There are different types of skill indeed, some people have natural abilities that makes them good from the start while others have to train a lot to be good (Kasparov have both).
I agree with a lot of what the OP and a few others are saying.
For those who seem to be getting confused by a whole lot of text, here is a simplified version.
There is not 1 type of game that is the only type that requires "true skill" to play. Playing and being good at 1 type does not magically mean you have "true skill" and people who play another type of game arent as skilled as you.
They require being good at completely different skillsets, but all of them require at least bits of what it takes to excel in other types.
For example:
MMOs typically revolve more around things like min/maxing builds (and understanding the mathematics behind everyting), understanding, memorizing, and executing the best sequence of skills for each situation. Many games also require a lot of memorizing / being aware of your surroundings and knowing how to use the terrain to your advantage (like to break LoS when getting focused by several people and fool them into coming around at you 1 at a time). MMORPGS focus less in "twitch" skill or fast reflexes, however they do play small part. The guys who are slower to react, move around when needed, pop off quick heals when they are most crucial, etc will typically die a lot. They also require you knwoing your enemy's capabilities and being able to predict and counter what they might use against you.
FPS games focus a lot more on twitch skills, reflexes, accuracy, etc. But they do also require some of what MMORPGs require. Memorizing maps, utilizing terrain for hiding / ambushin, setting up strategic choke points, etc. Though they may not require actual min/maxing of stats, you do still need to be very aware of things like which types of weapons are best suited for certain types of maps & situations, the accuracy, firing speed, etc. You'll see a lot of people who dont understand these things running around using every gun like a noob cannon, just firing off entire clips of ammo and barely managing to kill 1 person, or trying to use fast firing automatic weapons set to full auto trying to pick off people at long range. Then you'll see those guys dong things like taking a silenced pistol charging in and murdering the guy trying to unload a clip on him and not getting hit in the process, or a "weak" rifle with low firepower just sitting back in the distance popping off 1 round at a time taking someone down with a headshot 3/4 or more of the time. These are the guys who understand their weapon, and the enemy's weapons very well. They know how to maximize their killing power while conserving ammo, avoid getting hit by the enemies while in a hail of gunfire, and are able to easily pick up on habits and predict where the enemy will go and what they will do so they can pick off moving targets with a single shot.
Not going to go into the whole RTS thing, enough ranting already. But point is, all types of games require similar types of skills throughout them, but obviously excelling in one skillset gives you more of an advantage in a particular type. It doesnt mean you're "more skilled" than anyone in any other type of game, just that you have more skill in the particular area being emphasized in that game.
Some of us are fortunate enough to be quite well balanced and capable of performing all skillsets quite well. Might not be the best in an individual aspect but good enough in all of them that the combination makes you better overall. Those are the guys you will see who just kick the shit out of their competition on a daily basis wether it be fps, rts, or MMO. The guys who just hop into a new game and master it very quickly. Not the guys who are all like 'Im so much more skilled than you." then you say "OK come fight me in my game" and all of a sudden theyre like "But thats not my game that Im awesome at. Its unfair". The really skilled people will kick your ass regardless of game once they get the basics down.
Really?
"OMG your GS isnt over 9000! U R such a n00b. You suck so bad"
or
"OMG you couldnt solo that boss in epic gear? I owned him in 5 seconds completely naked with a broken stick. L2P n00b!"
People are e-peen measuring asshats regardless of type of game.
Yes but pvp servers still have arguing about gear score, epics and bosses as well as people bickering over "skills"
.
Problem is that your equation is only accurate to a certain point, because at a certain point, you simply can't become better even if you spend all time in the world due to certain talent being required.
Unless they play Eve of course, in which case i guarantee they are all ruggedly handsome.. even the male players
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Agree. This is especially true in FPS games, since they rely the most on twitch skill and reflexes.
Yes you can develop and improve your skill / reflexes over time, but everyone has a limit or plateau to how far they will get. Ive played with people who are playing an FPS for several hours a day every day for months on end, who still suck at the game because they lack the quick thinking and reflexes needed. Then I run into other people who pick up that same game, have been playing for a week and just kick the shit out of me regularly. Everyone has a different skill / learning curve.
I had a guy like this in my clan on Ghost Recon 2. Ran into the guy his 3rd day playing the game. At the time I was #1 ranked in kills in the entire game as well as holding #1 rank in score in 2 out of 3 game modes, and was leading a clan full of other top 10 spot holders and we were ranked #1 on the gamebattles ladders and on our way to the semifinals of a tournament. Dude comes into the lobby we were in, playing the opposite team as me. Everywhere I went I was dropping people in my way, and here is this guy sitting back picking me off nearly every time with a single shot to the head. Ran into him a few more times over that week and he just consistently kept it up. Ended up recruiting him to the clan and he became one of our most valuable assets in large maps allowing him to snipe. He was very sneaky / great at hiding & using terrain, and had a crazy headshot skill. Awesome thing is, this guy also went on to get a job at Redstorm and worked on Ghost Recon Future Soldier as a level designer.
Other people have the talent to be exceptional players, but it takes them longer to develop.
Like the story above, there was another clanmate of mine from Rainbow Six 3 (before GR2) who fit this to a T. He had been playing about a month when he ran into me for the 1st time. I normally ran uneven matches, me or me + 1 vs everyone else, with me using just a silenced 9 MM pistol and them running whatever they want. At first you could tell he was kind of frustrated cause I was just kicking the crap out of his team over and over. But we got along OK and ended up friending eachother in game. I admit, he was pretty bad at the game at that time. Over the next few weeks he kept coming into my matches, but was always on the other side. One day I asked him "Why dont you ever join my team" and he said "Because you will kill them all anyway and I will just do nothing and keep sucking. I would rather fight against you and learn how to beat you so I can get better". Which he very much did. He spent 90% of his time playing opposite me, andif nobody else was around we would spend hours just 1 v 1 against eachother and I would give him advice. After about 3 months of playing with me & my clan regularly, he finally felt he was good enough and asked if he could join us. We put him through our usual series of pass/fail tests to see if he had what it takes, and he passed with flying colors and got accepted. He changed his name, added our clan tag, etc. The next day I go online, hop into a match, and when seeing my tag people start asking "Hey arent you in the same clan as that Reservoir guy?" Im like "Yeah. Why?" and they all start talking about how he was in there a couple hours ago just stomping the shit out of everyone nonstop and how the host at the time got pissed off and kicked him from their server. After that I kept hearing his name a lot when I joined other people's matches, and most people who knew us refused to play if me and him were on the same team together. He also came to GR2 with us, and it took him a bit longer to adjust to the game, but eventually he started moving up in the ranks and caught up with the rest of us.
It always took him longer, but because of the similar limits all of my clanmates shared, when he hit that plateau he was just about as good as any of us. It didnt matter which of us was better faster, because we all hit the top of our game at some point, and some of us played a lot more than others. Time spent playing became irrelevant once we were all at that point.
TLDR version: Some people develop their skills very quickly, almost instantly. Others take a lot of time and work to develop their skills. But regardless of which type you are, everyone has a point where they have reached the "peak" of their abilities. You might get slightly better with more time afte rthat point, but it is very tiny increases. That peak is different for everyone, and some players will wind up being better than others in the end. But that peak exists for all of us.
If chest-thumping and swagger get on your nerves, you just won't be able to stomach any pvp forum for very long. :shrug:
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
"There are desperate housewives who play WoW, who are so much better than you (and me)"
If you know any, be a pal and do the introductions.
Of course games require skill, this is a thread about what skill is and it does not mean the same thing to all people. I regard a FPS shooter as taking more skill than a typical MMO. But that "skill" may be just finding a good hiding place to snip from or upgrading your weapon so you can shine a flashlight in someone’s eyes and bind them in daylight (B3). Alternatively it may be good marksmanship; both types of "skill" are to be found.
MMO’s tend to rely on memory more than a FPS, you need to know how to do things more than practice them to be perfect. Not so much as being able to do something in game better, but knowing the best way to attack, to even shop!
But in life you will find some people are better at some things, that’s the way it goes. Being great in games wins kudos from your mates. Being great in business, science or art will take you much further. So I suggest you get your “skills” spruced up in those rather than just games.