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[Column] Rift: Surpassing Azeroth

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  • JherakJherak Barrie, ONPosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by AC1074
    Sorry but Rift is just crap. Character customization is just weak, the whole "you're not in Azeroth" slogan they had was just hilarious. Yes, the new term/thing in MMOs is "dynamics" now and one MMO from the next is ripping that off each oher. Keep taking pot shots at WoW but WoW could probably beat any mmo on its worst day than Rift or some of these other titles can on their best day. 

    Customization in WoW is laughable.  The game is the same thing end game.  Get new gear from a raid, expansion pack comes out and greens are better than your raid gear, get to the knew level cap rinse and repeat.
     

    I have never played Rift, but I have watched previews of the class system and that alone is more cusomization than all of WoW.  Not to mention characters in WoW can't really be customized outside of your armor but at end game everyone ends up looking the same within their class.

     

    I want to try rift for free but GW2 has spoiled me.  Its just good old fun, has some really easy parts but the dungeons are really challenging and the PvP is super balanced so far, and more like a shooter.  No more having a fireball heatseek me through a wall or tree :D

  • JherakJherak Barrie, ONPosts: 10Member
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Retief
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Retief
    Originally posted by Aviggin

    What I've gathered from this article is that, Dynamic events aside, Rift is doing everything World of Warcraft is doing and adding housing where Blizzard is against it in order to keep people in the cities and such.

    If WoW had some sort of dynamic events system, Rift wouldn't even be a blip on the radar, to be honest.

     

    Only if WOW also upgraded their graphics engine, their character designs, their armor designs, weapons designs, gave their characters much better fighting animations, and tried to give them some semblence of personality.  Then, maybe.  I've waited three years for WOW to do just one of the above.  Now, only 7 days to go and my sub finally expires.  Freedom!

     

    Rift is the wrong game to compare to WoW for this.  Rift's combat animations are subpar (most, not all of them), the weapon and armor designs arent a strong point, and their characters have zero personality.  And while Rift has better graphics, it kinda runs like ass.  Ill take the tradeoff in graphics for performance boost any day of the week.

    Are you kidding me? Rift's animations, armor and weapons are definitely not subpar to WOW.   How could you even suggest that?  WOW is based on a 12 year old graphics engine, it's graphics are mushy, its gear suitable for Fred Flintstone, which matches WOW's character designs. As for running like ass.  Then again, when in WOW do you ever engage in 60 on 60 combat?  Even in Alterac Valley, battles are between small groups.  It's easier to be smooth when you keep things simple.  Then again, Pong was smooth.

    WoW's animations are better because they fit the combat better.  The game looks and feels more natural.  And their weapon and armor designs fit the style of the game.  Because you don't like the style doesnt make it bad.

    And Rift's poor performance isnt just in "60 vs 60 battles", its in a raid, or running around town.  

     

    Wow has like 2 animations shared between all the races.  That was an exageration but its just basic slashes and stabs.  How the heck is that better than what Rift has?  For example watch the gameplay trailers for Mist of Pandaria and look how static and dead all the characters attacking look.  Then watch a rift trailer, things look much better.

  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,214Member Uncommon

    Another nice article Bill.  Trion definitely works hard for the sub.

    I didn't stay with WoW long enough to form a first hand opinion, but it sure doesn't seem like they pump out the content.  It is a polished game though.

    Trion has done a great job with RIFT.  It feels like a lot more like EQ2 meets WoW or a real EQ evolution.  I can imagine EQ2 and WoW players migrating to RIFT slowly over time.  In my opinion Trion has until EQ Next and Titan to cement their hold for this type of game.

    Even though I love RIFT, I like GW2 just as much if not more and I'm not paying a sub.  If Trion could have pulled it off that all the content were included for the sub, then I would keep subscribing.  I'm not paying a sub and extra micro-transactions (expacs, horses, buffs, fluff) anymore.  I wish they would either offer a true sub or go B2P.  The cost of the game per year isn't worth it to me even though I understand Trion is trying hard.

  • fixiffixif varaždinPosts: 180Member

    Incredibly fanboi written column. "Beating WoW in it's own game?" If you played any of these games you compared you would know that these statements are just pointless. It strips you from your credibility in a second. Just that one sentence.

    I think columnist sees something that he wants to believe with all his heart but that's just not there. Rift is very similar to WoW and while Tirion does 100x better job at updating the game, it is still the same generic MMO with very, very similar dynamics to WoW and every MMO out there. Literally not one MMO stands out of the pack. Those that maybe have "innovative" mechanics have few thousand subscribers.

     

    image

  • AusareAusare adamstown, MDPosts: 850Member
    Found the rifts to be boring and annoying. Player house to me is really pointless. So i fibd nothing in this column relevant. Rift was ok but sucks horribly at what wow succeeds in...alting. alting keeps wow alive and no game has beaten wow at that.
  • lotapartylotaparty taxila canttPosts: 514Member
    okay sorry to say but the population on rift is very low and you dont get people to do quest with ,its a shame really

    image

  • 7star7star SeoulPosts: 405Member

    I have no problem finding decent, mature players to quest with in Rift. 

     

    I moved my toons to a low pop server (most of them now) ahead of the expansion. I ran some instant adventures, and bang, met some cool players and got invited to their guild. Now I have people to quest with. It really was as simple as that.

     

    WoW is WoW and there there is nothing wrong with the game itself, if you don't need or care for dynamic events in the world. However, it is the community that has changed along with the other changes in WoW.  As I have gotten older, I have more and more come to appreciate the community in MMORPGs. 

     

    So far, I have only had good experiences with Rift players, though I'm sure there are a few jerks peppered into the community, just like anywhere else in life.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Zylaxx
    Originally posted by Foomerang   Originally posted by Tamanous Comparing two similar and mundane games does little to help those wanting much more out of their mmorpg. Trion could have been a great company with an original product instead of a great company with an intentional mmo clone.
    Comments like these make me laugh because you must be intentionally turning a blind eye. Even if you hate rift, you cant dent that trion has no fear changing and adding to their game. They have added not just content patches and tweaks to existing features, but entirely new systems and ways to play.   Its one of the main reasons i support trion with my rift sub. It is exciting to play an mmo that is constantly adding new features. I always feel like if theres something missing from the game that we would like to see, the devs hear us and are working on ways to implement it.
    Features that pretty much suck, have no basis other then to appeal to ex-players of different MMO's.  Its like a fat chick hanging out with the hottest girls at a club thinking some of their good looks will rub off when in all reality they need to put down that bowl of HagenDaz and get on a threadmill.  Rift is that fat chick of MMO's.

    hehe you try so hard ;) All this wasted energy.
  • MMOGamer71MMOGamer71 Pittsburgh, PAPosts: 1,930Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by 7star

    I have no problem finding decent, mature players to quest with in Rift. 

     

    I moved my toons to a low pop server (most of them now) ahead of the expansion. I ran some instant adventures, and bang, met some cool players and got invited to their guild. Now I have people to quest with. It really was as simple as that.

     

    WoW is WoW and there there is nothing wrong with the game itself, if you don't need or care for dynamic events in the world. However, it is the community that has changed along with the other changes in WoW.  As I have gotten older, I have more and more come to appreciate the community in MMORPGs. 

     

    So far, I have only had good experiences with Rift players, though I'm sure there are a few jerks peppered into the community, just like anywhere else in life.

    ^

    About sums it up, I have played Rift since launch, bounced around a few guilds, met some cool players, got a guild invite.

     

    Profit.

  • montinmontin IpswichPosts: 218Member
    Talk about starting a fanboy war with such a comment. But for my money, I'm in the Rift camp. Death to WoW :p
  • daltaniousdaltanious waPosts: 2,145Member Uncommon
    I love quest hubs and can see alternatives only as addition. You know ... no need to reinvent the wheel. Already invented and still working, no alternatives. Only thing possible is to make current wheels better. Oh, btw, every alternative so far I have seen is actually kind of quest hub, appeareing mainly in same location or very close. Ok, in Rift, rifts are random. If this would be only way of doing something would left after one day. But fortunately is not, so have played 2 alts to max, 2 still waiting.
  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Imagine a wow vet lost all his chars and achieves and all his friends left wow just as the big rift expansion releases. What game seems more appealing now from a content perspectIve?

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • MukeMuke BredaPosts: 2,172Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Bladestrom
    Imagine a wow vet lost all his chars and achieves and all his friends left wow just as the big rift expansion releases. What game seems more appealing now from a content perspectIve?

    Still, playing Rifte beta and release felt like playing Warhammer Online 2.0....which graphics system didn't appeal at me either.

    I'll just skip both and wait till a good MMO comes by. :)

    "going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"

  • YamotaYamota LondonPosts: 6,620Member
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Yamota
    Rift still lacks in one fundamental aspects of MMORPGs and that is PvP where WoW is better and WoW is not even good at doing PvP so that is saying a lot about how poorly PvP is implemented in Rift.

    PvP in themepark PvE games sucks across the board.  If players want PvP as the main option there are games located on MMORPG.com for that.

    Not true. WAR had pretty decent PvP and the PvP in WoW is not all that bad. Bear in mind that when I say PvP I dont neccessarily mean hardcore FFA, full loot PvP.

    And please do tell which other games have good PvP? Eve is hardcore, full loot FFA PvP which is far too time consuming for casual gamers like me. Every other MMORPG is too old, WAR is dying, Darkfall/MO are generally just poor MMOs, Aion is more PvE grind than PvP and so on. There aren't that many good PvP MMORPGs out there which arent +5 years old.

  • Azaron_NightbladeAzaron_Nightblade KingsmouthPosts: 2,642Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Theocritus
        My main complaint with Rift was that it just felt like they stole so much from WoW and Warhammer....To me it isn't beating WoW when you paste and copy alot of what they already did.....Rift's mantra was pretty much always "hey we are WoW in a different package" and that always just rubbed me the wrong way......ALso last I heard Rift didn't even have a million subs so how is that beating WoW at its own game?

    You seem to forget that that's how WoW became great, they pretty much copied the good features of all the other MMOs that were popular back then.

    My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)

  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member

    completely agree with the column writer about how WoW has become stagnant and boring. the problem lies directly with the man in charge of development. GC looking back i too wish i had listened to the people warning us all of the dangers of putting a marine biologist in charge of a game. Cata and Panda are the results.

    Trion is making leaps and bounds far larger then i expected from the typical subscription only game. Subs are a thing of the past imo and they would do well to follow in Anet's footsteps with GW2 in all three strengths, DE improvements, action style combat, and a great store. Yes, i said it they should go B2P without a sub option. Not because they are failing mind you but because it's a much better business model with a simple added feature, the only subs I would suggest using are $5 at most and this is just for the purposes of better support for their game title in a B2P environment. Seems to be the only failing that F2P and B2P titles have in common. 

  • Pratt2112Pratt2112 Posts: 1,537Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Tamanous
    Comparing two similar and mundane games does little to help those wanting much more out of their mmorpg. Trion could have been a great company with an original product instead of a great company with an intentional mmo clone.

    WoW is a clone, being 41 years old I would have figured you could see that.  Also WoW is such a clone that tons of NPC's are real world people with reversed names, i.e. Harris Pilton. 

    How's that for original?

     

     

     

    Wish I had $1 for everytime someone eludes to WoW being original and all other MMO's a clone.

    Your response is actually less true than the one you're replying to.

     

    Prior to WoW, MMOs were designed with their own themes, gameplay systems, means of progression, character development, etc. EQ1 was very different from Anarchy Online, which was very different from Dark Age of Camelot, which was very different from Asheron's Call which was nothing like Ultima Online, which was nothing like Eve Online, which wasn othing like... well you get the idea. They had different looks, styles and "feel" from each other. They were each very much their own game; their own formula.

     

    The only thing that tied them together thematically was their basic gameplay, which was that of a RPG - leveling, questing, etc. But if one is to take that line of argument as saying "see? They're all clones!" Then you'd have to say Quake 3 Arena, Call of Duty, Planetside and all other competitive first-person games are all clones of DOOM (the first FPS to introduce deathmatch) because they all involve running around in a first-person perspective and shooting at other players.

     

    Since WoW, developers have come out of the wood work, all trying to copy WoW's specific formula, going so far as to copy the specific art-style and even the interface in a number of cases. They aren't trying to stand out as their own game. They're trying to look and feel as much like WoW as they can get away with. That's because, unlike pre-WoW MMORPG devs, these developers aren't trying to make an interesting game that stands on its own merits. They're trying to ride WoW's coat-tails and catch some of that money Blizzard is raking in.

     

    When you can pick up a brand-new MMO you've never played before, and know exactly what to do, to the point of being able to predict what is going to happen next because it's so similar to what you experienced in World of Warcraft... well, that speaks for itself.

     

    That's why it's perfectly relevant to say many post-WoW MMOs have been WoW clones. They've been trying to specifically copy Blizzard's "formula for success" with that game, to a great degree. Pre-WoW MMOs never came even remotely close to copying each other so blatantly.

     

    When developers get back to trying to create their own worlds, come up with their own formulas and styles of gameplay, and their own unique look and feel for the worlds they're creating, and stop trying to do 'whatever WoW is doing', then they'll have earned the right to not be called a WoW clone.

     

    TL;DR:

     

    Pre-WoW, MMORPG developers tried to make their games stand-out from each other, while being based on basic concepts and systems that defined them as RPGs in general, or MMORPGs in particular.

     

    Post-WoW, MMORPG developers have been trying to copy WoW specifically in any way they can short of landing themselves in court over it.

     

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member

    I played RIFT when it first released. My first impressions were good. Questing was smooth, dungeons were fun and challenging, and I liked the soul system. However, the game didn't capture me past the first month and here's why:

    1. I'm an altoholic that hates rerunning the same quest content. I also only liked one of their factions. So when I finally figured out that I didn't like the souls I had and wanted to try something different, I was faced with rerunning the same zones over and over again while I was figuring out which souls I liked best.

    2. While at launch, rifts were fun and people participated. After a couple of weeks it got repetitive and people were hardly participating in them.

    3. I hate macroing and the game promotes it.

     

    While WoW doesn't hold my attention for long periods of time, it does offer several different zones to level up and I like races from both factions, which gives me even more fresh paths to level up through. So I can or could, if I chose, level up through 3-4 different sets of zones the majority of the time. So rolling alts isn't so painful. 

    WoW offers a plethora of dungeons to level up through as well. So if I ran 1 of the 6 or more dungeons available to me at my level per day, a different one each day I might add, combined with a different zone for the level my characters are at for their respective level, I have even more variety for leveling up. Variety is king!

    Lastly, I don't have to or feel the need to macro my skills, nor is there a way to as far as I know.

    So RIFT beats WoW, no contest, with the soul system, quality and challenge of dungeons. Yet, WoW beats RIFT with the variety of content you can do while leveling up alts so you're not repeating the same content untill your 5th or 6th alt.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by Foomerang

     


    Originally posted by Benbrada
    Bill, continue your thought process and compare Rift to GW2 :-)

     

    Why? That would just make gw2 look bad ;)

    We don't need Rift for that.

    and someone says their not bitter... riiiiight...:)

    And why is it OK for someone to slam one game, and not have to hear a comeback abou thte other? It's all just light hearted jabbing anyway. I think it's safe to say I am critical of both games. It's my personal choice to say I think Rift is better, but in no way do I ever give Rift a free pass on its issues either.

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Rift is on an edge right now. They can either fly or plummet. I hope they fly. They have a good chance to make it happen. But I've seen so many "Coulda, Shoulda, Wouldas" recently, I'm not putting any faith in anything until I see it. Nor will I pre order this expansion until I have more info on what it's really like. Not just what everyone thinks it should be like. I like Rift. I am currently subbed to it, But the appearance of "Deep's Depot" is just a bit more than disturbing. There is nothing that is usable on a character in there now, but that's not to say it won't happen in the expansion. The CE edition mounts are already a thorn in my side as it is. A full fledged Cash Shop in a Sub Based game, simply undermines the whole concept of working for something. I boycotted TSW for this reason and I'll not hesitate to drop Rift in a heartbeat for it too. 

    just the way of the times it seems.. don't really expect this to go away though in any upcomming games. I'm guessing most will either go GW2 model or stick with P2P with an optional cash shop. honestly can't really see the harm in a CS as long as you have ways to get any item in the CS without real money.

    I understand the differing view points concerning cash shops and see the merits of both sides, however, let me say this:

    Did the classic MMORPG's have cash shops, such as UO, DAoC, and EQ? They didn't, so you knew that all of your subscription money was going towards the creation of new content. 

    When there's a subscription plus a cash shop, I feel that some of my sub money is spent on creating items for that shop that should be included with my sub fee, like in other games. 

    Part of playing MMORPG's, IMHO, is the acquiring of assets and the more rare the assets and the harder they are to get, the more proud you are of your achievements. Allow people to obtain them in a CS, and it greatly diminishes the satisfaction of obtaining those things.

    I guess a close example I could give in real life terms is the obtaining of a college degree. How much value would you hold your accreditted degree that you spent 4 years earning if there was a way for anyone with enough money to obtain the same  accreditted degree with the swipe of a credit card? Sure, you'll still have the experience of going to college to look fondly on in later years and will have that extra gain in knowledge, but you can't deny that your satisfaction in earning that degree wouldn't be diminished by those who bought their degree.

  • MyriaMyria Lowell, MAPosts: 570Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nhoj1983

    Rift in just over a year has given many more times more than WoW.

     

    I don't know how many times it has to be said, but Rift launched with one of the smallest worlds in MMO history -- even down to having only two "cities" that in reality are little more than one building each -- one raid and a half dozen dungeons that were had to do double duty as leveling and engame, thus people were sick of them before they ever saw T2.

    Trion launched with a game that couldn't come close to matching WoW Vanilla, let alone where WoW is now, and despite all of the patches the game still is very content light compared to the competition.

    They launched with half a game, patching in the second half over a period that saw them hemorage subs because people quickly got bored (some of the most generic and unmemerable lore in gaming history doesn't help, either) isn't nearly as impressive a feat as people make it out to be.

    Having launched with a full game and then patching in a ton more content, now that might have been worthy of praise. But as it really was? Not so much.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Rift is on an edge right now. They can either fly or plummet. I hope they fly. They have a good chance to make it happen. But I've seen so many "Coulda, Shoulda, Wouldas" recently, I'm not putting any faith in anything until I see it. Nor will I pre order this expansion until I have more info on what it's really like. Not just what everyone thinks it should be like. I like Rift. I am currently subbed to it, But the appearance of "Deep's Depot" is just a bit more than disturbing. There is nothing that is usable on a character in there now, but that's not to say it won't happen in the expansion. The CE edition mounts are already a thorn in my side as it is. A full fledged Cash Shop in a Sub Based game, simply undermines the whole concept of working for something. I boycotted TSW for this reason and I'll not hesitate to drop Rift in a heartbeat for it too. 

    just the way of the times it seems.. don't really expect this to go away though in any upcomming games. I'm guessing most will either go GW2 model or stick with P2P with an optional cash shop. honestly can't really see the harm in a CS as long as you have ways to get any item in the CS without real money.

    I understand the differing view points concerning cash shops and see the merits of both sides, however, let me say this:

    Did the classic MMORPG's have cash shops, such as UO, DAoC, and EQ? They didn't, so you knew that all of your subscription money was going towards the creation of new content. 

    When there's a subscription plus a cash shop, I feel that some of my sub money is spent on creating items for that shop that should be included with my sub fee, like in other games. 

    Part of playing MMORPG's, IMHO, is the acquiring of assets and the more rare the assets and the harder they are to get, the more proud you are of your achievements. Allow people to obtain them in a CS, and it greatly diminishes the satisfaction of obtaining those things.

    I guess a close example I could give in real life terms is the obtaining of a college degree. How much value would you hold your accreditted degree that you spent 4 years earning if there was a way for anyone with enough money to obtain the same  accreditted degree with the swipe of a credit card? Sure, you'll still have the experience of going to college to look fondly on in later years and will have that extra gain in knowledge, but you can't deny that your satisfaction in earning that degree wouldn't be diminished by those who bought their degree.

    I beleive that it all stems from GW2's Cash Shop. Fans just don't want to admit that Cash Shops are bad anymore. "Now it's time to embrace them".  Well, I disagree. Sure GW2's Cash Shop is not P2W. ANET has stayed true to their word about selling unfair advantage and that's very commendable. But I don't think GW2's Cash Shop was ever about selling items. They were in it for the gem/Gold conversions. And just look at what that has done to the game's economy. GW2 has one of the worst MMO economies I've ever seen in any MMO much less a AAA title. To Me GW2 is another shining example of how Cash Shops ruin MMOs. Not to mention one of the worst botting problems in a AAA MMO I've ever seen. And I also think that is related to gem/gold selling. It's my personal opinion, but I still contend that any MMO with an item store is vastly diminished by it.

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by MMOGamer71
    Originally posted by Tamanous
    Comparing two similar and mundane games does little to help those wanting much more out of their mmorpg. Trion could have been a great company with an original product instead of a great company with an intentional mmo clone.

    WoW is a clone, being 41 years old I would have figured you could see that.  Also WoW is such a clone that tons of NPC's are real world people with reversed names, i.e. Harris Pilton. 

    How's that for original?

     

     

     

    Wish I had $1 for everytime someone eludes to WoW being original and all other MMO's a clone.

    I'd have to say that WoW is an original game. Pre-WoW, I knew of DAoC, EQ, UO, SWG, and Shadowbane. I know there were more, but I don't need more to make my point.

    All of those games were pretty different from each other, much the same way WoW was pretty different than all of those games. Before WoW, there weren't quest hubs and quest hub grinding. You went out into the world, formed a group, and grinding mobs for hours to level up. I also don't remember there being any instanced dungeons spread out across the entire level range before WoW. I know DAoC introduced instances with Catacombs after WoW released, but they weren't WoW-like dungeons. 

    What else?

    1. Flight paths, mounts, and flying mounts. In DAoC, we road a horse for 20 min to get somewhere. There wasn't any flying at all until after WoW released. Hell, they didn't even add mounts until after WoW released. 

    I'm not saying WoW is a great game or better than the classics, but I think WoW deserves to be considered as an original game. THE orignal themepark IMHO (downfall of the genre if you ask me...). WoW filled a niche that wasn't already being filled. It catered to those who liked doing quests and soloing the majority of the time.

    UO filled the FFA PvP sandbox fantasy niche.

    EQ filled the PvE and Raider niche.

    DAoC filled the RvR niche for those who didn't like FFA PvP.

    SWG filled the sci-fi sandbox niche with limited PvP.

    Every MMO was different enough than all MMO's prior to it fill a niche. When WoW came out, it was different enough than all other MMO's to form its own niche. Unfortunately, WoW's niche was so big it became mainstream and halted all forward progress the classic MMORPG's were heading towards (virtual worlds with more and more features as the years went buy).

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Rift is on an edge right now. They can either fly or plummet. I hope they fly. They have a good chance to make it happen. But I've seen so many "Coulda, Shoulda, Wouldas" recently, I'm not putting any faith in anything until I see it. Nor will I pre order this expansion until I have more info on what it's really like. Not just what everyone thinks it should be like. I like Rift. I am currently subbed to it, But the appearance of "Deep's Depot" is just a bit more than disturbing. There is nothing that is usable on a character in there now, but that's not to say it won't happen in the expansion. The CE edition mounts are already a thorn in my side as it is. A full fledged Cash Shop in a Sub Based game, simply undermines the whole concept of working for something. I boycotted TSW for this reason and I'll not hesitate to drop Rift in a heartbeat for it too. 

    just the way of the times it seems.. don't really expect this to go away though in any upcomming games. I'm guessing most will either go GW2 model or stick with P2P with an optional cash shop. honestly can't really see the harm in a CS as long as you have ways to get any item in the CS without real money.

    I understand the differing view points concerning cash shops and see the merits of both sides, however, let me say this:

    Did the classic MMORPG's have cash shops, such as UO, DAoC, and EQ? They didn't, so you knew that all of your subscription money was going towards the creation of new content. 

    When there's a subscription plus a cash shop, I feel that some of my sub money is spent on creating items for that shop that should be included with my sub fee, like in other games. 

    Part of playing MMORPG's, IMHO, is the acquiring of assets and the more rare the assets and the harder they are to get, the more proud you are of your achievements. Allow people to obtain them in a CS, and it greatly diminishes the satisfaction of obtaining those things.

    I guess a close example I could give in real life terms is the obtaining of a college degree. How much value would you hold your accreditted degree that you spent 4 years earning if there was a way for anyone with enough money to obtain the same  accreditted degree with the swipe of a credit card? Sure, you'll still have the experience of going to college to look fondly on in later years and will have that extra gain in knowledge, but you can't deny that your satisfaction in earning that degree wouldn't be diminished by those who bought their degree.

    I beleive that it all stems from GW2's Cash Shop. Fans just don't want to admit that Cash Shops are bad anymore. "Now it's time to embrace them".  Well, I disagree. Sure GW2's Cash Shop is not P2W. ANET has stayed true to their word about selling unfair advantage and that's very commendable. But I don't think GW2's Cash Shop was ever about selling items. They were in it for the gem/Gold conversions. And just look at what that has done to the game's economy. GW2 has one of the worst MMO economies I've ever seen in any MMO much less a AAA title. To Me GW2 is another shining example of how Cash Shops ruin MMOs. Not to mention one of the worst botting problems in a AAA MMO I've ever seen. And I also think that is related to gem/gold selling. It's my personal opinion, but I still contend that any MMO with an item store is vastly diminished by it.

    It doesn't bother me that GW2 has a CS since they're not charging a subscription.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Originally posted by nate1980
    Originally posted by Aerowyn
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer
    Rift is on an edge right now. They can either fly or plummet. I hope they fly. They have a good chance to make it happen. But I've seen so many "Coulda, Shoulda, Wouldas" recently, I'm not putting any faith in anything until I see it. Nor will I pre order this expansion until I have more info on what it's really like. Not just what everyone thinks it should be like. I like Rift. I am currently subbed to it, But the appearance of "Deep's Depot" is just a bit more than disturbing. There is nothing that is usable on a character in there now, but that's not to say it won't happen in the expansion. The CE edition mounts are already a thorn in my side as it is. A full fledged Cash Shop in a Sub Based game, simply undermines the whole concept of working for something. I boycotted TSW for this reason and I'll not hesitate to drop Rift in a heartbeat for it too. 

    just the way of the times it seems.. don't really expect this to go away though in any upcomming games. I'm guessing most will either go GW2 model or stick with P2P with an optional cash shop. honestly can't really see the harm in a CS as long as you have ways to get any item in the CS without real money.

    I understand the differing view points concerning cash shops and see the merits of both sides, however, let me say this:

    Did the classic MMORPG's have cash shops, such as UO, DAoC, and EQ? They didn't, so you knew that all of your subscription money was going towards the creation of new content. 

    When there's a subscription plus a cash shop, I feel that some of my sub money is spent on creating items for that shop that should be included with my sub fee, like in other games. 

    Part of playing MMORPG's, IMHO, is the acquiring of assets and the more rare the assets and the harder they are to get, the more proud you are of your achievements. Allow people to obtain them in a CS, and it greatly diminishes the satisfaction of obtaining those things.

    I guess a close example I could give in real life terms is the obtaining of a college degree. How much value would you hold your accreditted degree that you spent 4 years earning if there was a way for anyone with enough money to obtain the same  accreditted degree with the swipe of a credit card? Sure, you'll still have the experience of going to college to look fondly on in later years and will have that extra gain in knowledge, but you can't deny that your satisfaction in earning that degree wouldn't be diminished by those who bought their degree.

    I beleive that it all stems from GW2's Cash Shop. Fans just don't want to admit that Cash Shops are bad anymore. "Now it's time to embrace them".  Well, I disagree. Sure GW2's Cash Shop is not P2W. ANET has stayed true to their word about selling unfair advantage and that's very commendable. But I don't think GW2's Cash Shop was ever about selling items. They were in it for the gem/Gold conversions. And just look at what that has done to the game's economy. GW2 has one of the worst MMO economies I've ever seen in any MMO much less a AAA title. To Me GW2 is another shining example of how Cash Shops ruin MMOs. Not to mention one of the worst botting problems in a AAA MMO I've ever seen. And I also think that is related to gem/gold selling. It's my personal opinion, but I still contend that any MMO with an item store is vastly diminished by it.

    It doesn't bother me that GW2 has a CS since they're not charging a subscription.

    True. And I admit thye need to make money. Overall, I can accept it from GW2 for this reason. But I'm not a fan of B2P. The models is walking a balance beam and could fall into F2P with one slip. It also doesn't change the fact that GW2's economy is borked. I'll still hold my opinion that the pure Sub model is still the best. And that Sub models that adopt a Cash Shop are the worst. Which I admit is a dying breed and thus, so is the TRUE MMORPG.

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