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Have MMOs changed? Oh hell yes they have! Gone are the days of running when you see TRAIN!!!!!! pop up in the chat window. Gone are the days of corpse runs naked across zones you are KOS in just to get your gear back. You could lose a level for dying if you weren't careful. Grouping was almost a must unless you wanted to grind green mobs. The change came with WoW and EQ2.
Back in the day you had to work for your accomplishments, now we have add ons that tell you when to move out of on AOE, gear score, group finders, cross server grouping, games that can be soloed all the way to max level, instant travel, and god forbid you actually have to talk to other people or read the chat window.
Don't get me wrong, some of the changes are good. I never liked looking up respawn times and then leaving the game running and setting the alarm so I could get up at zero dark thirty just for a 5 minute fight just to watch someone else with a better connection take the mob away from me. But there has to be a happy medium and as long as suites are sticking their noses into the development process, we will never have a game that has anywhere near the correct mix of ease and challenge. Those jack holes want nothing more than to have the next WoW and if they would just listen more than they talk, they just might succeed.
I am kind of buned out too. In 90% of all MMOs you enter the world and start committing mass murder. And in most MMOs you do that 70 - 90% of the time. I do not mind combat in MMOs, its just the how and why.
But the real problem with MMOs these days, as i see it, is the "blending", the strive to make everyone happy. (Aka make more money.) The industry needs to reverse this process and needs to start making more specialized games again. The devs should not try to go for the largest playerbase, but for the most happy and loyal playerbase. Eve is a good example imo. It only has like 300.000 subs (players really, really like it, or not play it at all), but apparently is successful, and generates enough money so that ccp can work on 2 more games at the same time.
Originally posted by Simphanatic
The OP mirrors my sentiment EXACTLY. The problem as I see it is that so many MMOs are little more than websites providing us with varying carrot and stick quests, where PvP and economy are little more than second thoughts. SWTOR wasn't a bad game, when compared to anything else on the market, it just didn't deliver on the promise of an open world that would give us more than other similar games. Even though I've since tried a few other MMOs, SWTOR really was a nail in the coffin insofar as my long-term MMO participation is concerned. In short, I want a gaming world that can be a destination in and of itself. I want to live in that world, not merely do a series of stale, constrained quests. Before I ever invest my time and money in another MMO, it absolutely must meet these criteria: Have a dynamic, player-influenced, open environment Possess a fluid, impactful economy that is not at all affected by infusion of real-world money Provide meaningful player professions intrinsic to the economy Furnish recreational venues that players can engage in when not in combat or working Give players the opportunity to construct residences Have non artifical, open PvP -- the world should be a risky place There must be a player-regulated system for penalizing gankers, scammers, and other evil doers Quests/missions are ok, but should not be a central focus of the game world (I'd prefer to see them as a starting point to game play -- a world introduction -- certainly not a destination) Community is not a factor because if the foregoing are executed properly community will follow Unless I see all these in an MMO I'm not bothering with it. I am just fine reading books; watching movies; or, gawd forbid, playing the latest Sims 3 expansion.
The OP mirrors my sentiment EXACTLY.
The problem as I see it is that so many MMOs are little more than websites providing us with varying carrot and stick quests, where PvP and economy are little more than second thoughts.
SWTOR wasn't a bad game, when compared to anything else on the market, it just didn't deliver on the promise of an open world that would give us more than other similar games. Even though I've since tried a few other MMOs, SWTOR really was a nail in the coffin insofar as my long-term MMO participation is concerned.
In short, I want a gaming world that can be a destination in and of itself. I want to live in that world, not merely do a series of stale, constrained quests. Before I ever invest my time and money in another MMO, it absolutely must meet these criteria:
Darkfall was to hit all of those criteria. Did you play it? Just curious if you did.
I started with Ultima Online and I have played a ton of games since then.
SWG was close second to me. WoW was okay and captured me for a few years, but nothing like UO still. It was just too easy.
The thing I missed most about UO was the mixture of playstyles all in one game. The game captured so many aspects and it was the little things that kept people playing.
Crating was superior, because you relied on crafters for your gear. You could go out into the Wild and seek out magic gear, but in UO it was random. You couldnt just go take down a boss to get a piece of gear, you had to fight 1000s sometimes 10000 things before you got what you were looking for. It was exciting and random. This made crafted gear MEAN something. Item decay til loss of item, full PvP loot, etc. All of this made the crafting experience meaningful. You will rarely find a game that has meaningful crafting, because you need all of the elements I mentioned to make crafting "needed".
Housing. Wow! Housing was fun. Decorating houses, storing treasures for all to see. It was a fun experience.
Rare Hunting. The game had items that would spawn after the server came up. It shut down every night and when it would start again, these little rare items you could get. We hunted them, collected them, and stored them in our houses.
Taming. Animal taming with rare creatures. Now a days, you dont get rare creatures. You get cookie cutter pets from a hunting class and thats the end of it. Be done! LOL Its boring these days.
Treasure Hunting. On land and in sea? Holy smokes you get a treaure map with coordinates and dig or fish up treasure? What other game has done this? It was good times for our Guild back then.
PvP was great in UO. Chaos vs Order, Open World PvP with guards as your back-up in cities and towns, Factions, Evil vs Good, Guild vs Guild. It was truly an amazing experience and with full loot PvP, it made the economy a real economy as you could lose items you worked hard for. Now, its just easy mode in most games.
The sad thing is that the people have changed. All the games that are anything like the above turn into a Prison yard for hooligans. It isnt the socializer playing those games, it isnt the explorer playing them, it isnt a casual gamer, it is for the most part just the dicks that like to gank and screw people over and ruin everyone's experience by going out of their way ti just be dicks.
Ive said this before, those games will never capture what UO captured because there are more than two games to play and people prefer to have a good time in a game. For me, having all of the playstyles together make it a great game. Good people banding together to take out the bad people. But the truth is, the good people will never play a game where bad people can ruin their fun.
Sad, but true. It will never be the same experience again, at least not for me. I tried Darkfall and the community in general sucked ass. It was just a game full of jerks and shit talkers and it reminded me of Felucca in UO. The prison yard of bullies.
Sucks. But it isnt the company that makes the game fault, its the people playing the game. If I were creating a game, I wouldnt go with sandbox either. I wouldnt go with an open world. It will always fail due to the type of people that play those games. Theres not enough of the "good" people interested to make the game an actual success. Afterall, its all about sales in the end and those games are of the minority because "good" people do not want to play in a Prison Yard of bullies.
For anyone saying mmo's haven't changed, you are out of your mind.
Anyone who has played Everquest 2 from launch, I'm sure even WoW from launch, Everquest 1 etc knows that MMOs have changed, and for the worse. I haven't lost interest in MMOs, they are still my most desired gaming genre, but I have lost [b]faith[/b] in the new ones coming out.
I played Everquest 2 pretty much religiously since launch. I bought every expansion, was server first Shadowknight when the pvp servers first opened on Venekor, and I put a lot of time and effort into the community, the game, etc. I am a competitive person by nature, and do not like to be second best, so with mmo's it's perfect!
When Everquest 2 and WoW first came out, this was when MMOs were being released with massive amounts of content, interesting quest lines etc. I personally, have never had more fun than when I was doing my Mythical in Veeshan's Peak. Massive quest line, ending in a huge raid zone, with a world wide message saying that So and So has gotten "inset item name here" mythical. But this is what I think these new games are lacking, they are lacking the interesting content, and indepth quest lines.
I don't know if it's lack of funding for them now, or lack of time, but if you are putting out an mmo and you don't have any open world pvp, or any top end raid zones, but you also don't have interesting quest lines, vast class choices and specifications, you are going to fail.
Maybe it's because I am late and I am not making any sense, but there has not been an mmo to come out that has seemed to have that umph that they used to. Or maybe I am just used to Everquest 2, which has massive content, and great raid zones so it's hard to give these new mmos trying to break on to the scene a real chance.
I have big hopes for the new Final Fantasy 14, and I hope Everquest 3 ends up being a good game even after all the budget cuts. One can dream.
Killing dragons is my shit
Yes eight years ago MMO’s were a niche game. But they were not a Reliant Robin, they were a JCB construction vehicle among all the other cars. Now they are just another car; fast, nice paint work, simple car steering.
Making a niche the same as the rest is not progress, it is saying there is only one way to play. Our way, the way of single player console games.
There's another reason for this - MMOs have become far too simplistic and streamlined (and boring as a result).
When you first played these games 10 years ago, there were complex stats, skills, challenging content, the sense that you were doing something few had embarked on before, all of this depth has been sacrificed in order to appeal to a massive audience.
Now this has certainly resulted in many more players trying out MMOs, but the simplification still continues with every new release. As a result, more and more players become turned off - they have mastered the current MMO dynamics (which are very similar from game to game), they are ready for something more challenging, NOT more simplified.
Take a look at how simplified GW2 combat is compared to it's predecessors. GW2 is a game with an amazingly well-detailed world, but it's going to suffer because it's too streamlined. People are sick of the dumbing-down. Put out a complex and challenging MMO and I guarantee you the genre will come roaring back. We are starved for depth and ready to take on new greater challenges, instead we get more and more simplified crap.
I havent played a single mmorpg longer than 3 months since Burning crusade came out in 2007. Tera looked good but than Frogstar killed it. I hope AA can pull of something otherwise im gonna buy random x mmorpg play it 1 month and quit it cause it sucks.
Back in the days i played DaoC and Lineage 2 for years nowdays u cant find a single mmorpg that is worth my time.
I rather play Dota, and Fighters much more fun than mmorpgs nowdays.