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This game sounds like the possible savior to MMOs!

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  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,795Member Uncommon

    Yeah I gotta say that the logic they use for housing is something I disagree with too.

     

    I'm still waiting for a game that uses worldspace portals to pull off simpler housing, I imagine they could have done that at least.

     

    For clarification, when I say 'world space portals' I mean the seldom used method of creating a game world as sectional assets that are not actually seamless, but instead bridge the assets via planes between the borders of the assets to make an apparently seamless world.

     

    For example this is how they can get used in the game Portal 2.

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_xFbRecjKQA

     

    That video shows how the character can run though what appears to be a seamless environment with no loading in between rooms, but the spaces themselves are not technically built as a single space.

     

    If they implemented such a mechanic in TES or any mmo, I imagine it solves the space problem on player housing at least. It enables the ability to essentially build the entirety of the house's assets hidden in an inaccessible and invisible area to the players that can be linked to the world space by a portal fitting the door frame. All the houses essentially makes all the houses into non-euclidean geometry and can be used for much more than that even.

     

    Doesn't necessarily limit the interacitivy of such objects either. In the case of game world destruction the hidden space can be ignored and the house exterior can use a simplified design when destroyed, in-house assets either getting flagged as destroyed or migrating over to a salvageable pool from the building's rubble..

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • znaiikaznaiika denver, PAPosts: 203Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by znaiika

    Yes, you can explore the whole world of Tamriel without making extra toons.

    Doesn't actually say that, and it was confirmed from their official twitter that you cannot go into other faction territory, just your own two or three provinces and cyrodiil (for PvP).  They were very clear.

    You don't have to tell me that, I know very well, if you're pvp you can't go to enemy teritory without fear, someone will kill you, but you still can if no one see you or you just ask for permission to enter.

  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAPosts: 1,518Member Uncommon
    I always think of housing like being in a gated community, make it a world with tons of other houses, that you goto your gate to portal in, should be like 100 houses per gate. 
  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by Myrdynn
    I always think of housing like being in a gated community, make it a world with tons of other houses, that you goto your gate to portal in, should be like 100 houses per gate. 

    It's like this in Lotro. Though it is more like 30 houses per instance.

    It is horribad.   Obviously it is dead, even though this instanced gateted place look nice, has public place, NPC's, NPC shops, etc   I saw other person there maybe like 3 times. Of course that person was just running past me. 

    Believe me portal straight to instanced house or portal to instanced neighbourhood of houses does not change nothing.  It is still dead and stricly solo-personal experience. 

     

    Nothing I heard so far about TESO sound like "mmo saviour", seriously.

  • MercArcherMercArcher fort wayne, INPosts: 57Member
    Originally posted by fenistil
    Originally posted by Myrdynn
    I always think of housing like being in a gated community, make it a world with tons of other houses, that you goto your gate to portal in, should be like 100 houses per gate. 

    It's like this in Lotro. Though it is more like 30 houses per instance.

    It is horribad.   Obviously it is dead, even though this instanced gateted place look nice, has public place, NPC's, NPC shops, etc   I saw other person there maybe like 3 times. Of course that person was just running past me. 

    Believe me portal straight to instanced house or portal to instanced neighbourhood of houses does not change nothing.  It is still dead and stricly solo-personal experience. 

     

    Nothing I heard so far about TESO sound like "mmo saviour", seriously.

    Your post just further proves that player housing is a completely unneeded feature in MMOs. It is hardly used, and even those who use it profusely us it far less than the rest of the game. Bad logic or no player housing is not needed.

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    we shall see...LOVED elder scrolls, but after that it appeared Bethesda just copied and pasted for the next couple games...Im just hoping they can combine sandbox with themepark....always seems to go well when both, not one, are considered

    image
  • MyrdynnMyrdynn Beaumont, CAPosts: 1,518Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by fenistil
    Originally posted by Myrdynn
    I always think of housing like being in a gated community, make it a world with tons of other houses, that you goto your gate to portal in, should be like 100 houses per gate. 

    It's like this in Lotro. Though it is more like 30 houses per instance.

    It is horribad.   Obviously it is dead, even though this instanced gateted place look nice, has public place, NPC's, NPC shops, etc   I saw other person there maybe like 3 times. Of course that person was just running past me. 

    Believe me portal straight to instanced house or portal to instanced neighbourhood of houses does not change nothing.  It is still dead and stricly solo-personal experience. 

     

    Nothing I heard so far about TESO sound like "mmo saviour", seriously.

    Your post just further proves that player housing is a completely unneeded feature in MMOs. It is hardly used, and even those who use it profusely us it far less than the rest of the game. Bad logic or no player housing is not needed.

    its used and wanted in every game it seems, just most MMO's do it wrong.

    Asheron's Call did it great and that was 10+ yrs ago.  Horizons/Istaria was a dream, SWG was the best all time, I didnt play UO, but housing was a huge feature there. 

    Rift is adding it in their expansion as a major feature, and its getting rave reviews, even instanced

     

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,280Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Myrdynn

    LOL

    not gonna read thru all this thread

    but any company who flat out says there will be no housing, not cause we dont want it, but becuase it is too hard? are you kidding me, this company and game has fail all over it

    sorry couldnt fix that exploit, was too hard, if you buy more gems at the store it will help you

     

    Think TESO is going to be a sub game. No gem buying/gold buy bull.

     

    as far as the other stuff? idk lol.

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,590Member Uncommon

    I read the title of this threadand my 1st thought was "Another one?" (MMO Savior) Maybe we should take a lesson from religious history. Let the genre die 1st. THEN maybe we can get the savior from the resurrection.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by znaiika
    Originally posted by Entinerint
    Originally posted by znaiika

    Yes, you can explore the whole world of Tamriel without making extra toons.

    Doesn't actually say that, and it was confirmed from their official twitter that you cannot go into other faction territory, just your own two or three provinces and cyrodiil (for PvP).  They were very clear.

    You don't have to tell me that, I know very well, if you're pvp you can't go to enemy teritory without fear, someone will kill you, but you still can if no one see you or you just ask for permission to enter.

    Wrong.  Everyone is PvP.  You aren't forced to PvP but if you enter Cyrodiil you are automatically PvP.  This isn't SWG, where you can unflag yourself, or choose not to join a faction. 

    If you are in the Daggerfall Convenant (which you automatically are if you choose Breton, Orsimer or Redguard) you will only ever see the provinces oh High Rock, Hammerfell and Cyrodiil.  You can not cross into another faction's province.  It's that simple, and that stupid.

  • znaiikaznaiika denver, PAPosts: 203Member
    Originally posted by Entinerint

    Wrong.  Everyone is PvP.  You aren't forced to PvP but if you enter Cyrodiil you are automatically PvP.  This isn't SWG, where you can unflag yourself, or choose not to join a faction. 

    [mod edit]

    There is no automatic pvp in Tamriel, pvp is an option, if you want to pvp? join any of three alliances, then you will be pvp flagged, if you don't do that you won't be pvp flagged and you will be able to visit all prvinces.

    Read post # 178 again.

  • EntinerintEntinerint brooklyn, NYPosts: 843Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by znaiika
    Originally posted by Entinerint

    Wrong.  Everyone is PvP.  You aren't forced to PvP but if you enter Cyrodiil you are automatically PvP.  This isn't SWG, where you can unflag yourself, or choose not to join a faction. 

    [mod edit]

    There is no automatic pvp in Tamriel, pvp is an option, if you want to pvp? join any of three alliances, then you will be pvp flagged, if you don't do that you won't be pvp flagged and you will be able to visit all prvinces.

    No, you do not "join an alliance" you make a character.  Your race automatically assigns you to the alliance. 

    If you are a Dark Elf, Nord or Argonian, you are automatically assigned, right out of character creation, to the Ebonheart pact.

    If you are Orc, Redguard or Breton, you are automatically assigned, right out of character creation, to the Daggerfall Covenant.

    If you are High Elf, Wood Elf or Khajiit, you are automatically assigned, right out of character creation, to the Aldmeri Dominion.

    You have no choice beyond that.

    I understand how you might think I'm trolling, due to how moronic this approach is, but that's how they're doing it.

    As for automatic PvP, you flag for PvP by going into Cyrodiil, but everywhere else you will only be among your race-locked allies.

  • fenistilfenistil GliwicePosts: 3,005Member
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by fenistil
    Originally posted by Myrdynn
    I always think of housing like being in a gated community, make it a world with tons of other houses, that you goto your gate to portal in, should be like 100 houses per gate. 

    It's like this in Lotro. Though it is more like 30 houses per instance.

    It is horribad.   Obviously it is dead, even though this instanced gateted place look nice, has public place, NPC's, NPC shops, etc   I saw other person there maybe like 3 times. Of course that person was just running past me. 

    Believe me portal straight to instanced house or portal to instanced neighbourhood of houses does not change nothing.  It is still dead and stricly solo-personal experience. 

     

    Nothing I heard so far about TESO sound like "mmo saviour", seriously.

    Your post just further proves that player housing is a completely unneeded feature in MMOs. It is hardly used, and even those who use it profusely us it far less than the rest of the game. Bad logic or no player housing is not needed.

    Instanced housing is fluff.  Simple as that. It can be nice feature and some people might like it, but that's it.

    Open world housing CAN be, does not have to be, but can have some function beside fluff, and of course it impacts world by existing itself (creating cities, etc).

    TESO won't have housing though or just only instanced, so.  Of course I have nothing against Zenimax instanced housing - I just don't care about it.

  • IAmMMOIAmMMO LondonPosts: 1,333Member Uncommon

     Don't let the hype let you get ahead of yourself, they made it clear what type of MMO it would be when they first announced it thinking the reaction would be joy and celebration, and not the backlash it was.  This game is being made to the drum of share holders. When share holders are involved these days there is no risk taken,especially on innovation.

     I still get the impression it's a money grab on the IP.  I think  an Elders Scroll MMO should be made like it's a much improved Darkfall, and by that I mean one big smealess world, realtime interaction with the world , realtime combat, PVE mobs that don't just stand there, flying npc dragons protecting areas, sailing the seas, naval combat and player towns and villages to cities. Who knows what's going on now after the backlash, a lot may have been scraped and started again for all we know. I hope so! Because the Elders Scroll online they first pitched was chasing WOW and not going out there on it's own IP legs.

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by IAmMMO

     Don't let the hype let you get ahead of yourself, they made it clear what type of MMO it would be when they first announced it thinking the reaction would be joy and celebration, and not the backlash it was.  This game is being made to the drum of share holders. When share holders are involved these days there is no risk taken,especially on innovation.

     I still get the impression it's a money grab on the IP.  I think  an Elders Scroll MMO should be made like it's a much improved Darkfall, and by that I mean one big smealess world, realtime interaction with the world , realtime combat, PVE mobs that don't just stand there, flying npc dragons protecting areas, sailing the seas, naval combat and player towns and villages to cities. Who knows what's going on now after the backlash, a lot may have been scraped and started again for all we know. I hope so! Because the Elders Scroll online they first pitched was chasing WOW and not going out there on it's own IP legs.

    That game would bomb if designed like that.

     

     

    Sure its a moneygrab, but a moneygrab with very influential ramifications.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • ZylaxxZylaxx Erlanger, KYPosts: 2,574Member
    Originally posted by Fagmod
    Originally posted by Zylaxx

    Then what is your argument if not size, when you are locked out of 2 of the 3 factions areas?   Cause I sure as hell dont understand what your saying. You just answered your own question in that first sentence. Locking out 2/3 of the PvE world is a horrible idea, no matter what the size is. How can this be so difficult to understand?  OK let me try it like this, you want to be able to explore all 3 factions areas right?  regardless of size this isnt feasible in a 3 faction RvR game.  The whole notion of restricting players from seeing other factions in the PvE world is a trademark of the DAoC RvR system. Yes, and that right there makes it a really fucking bad idea. You get RvR while losing 2/3 of the PvE area (without alts), that's a horrible trade-off. Listen I understand you dont like it, but you cant have cooperation or open world ganking PvP in that system because of unintended consequences.  Still They could eventually move to a Mordred/Andred style system but I wouldnt count on it because Open World PvP is and always will remain a niche target audience. 

    Where the fuck did I say anything about open world PvP? I said that the only thing that would change is that instead of factions, you would have guilds. Try to get it through your head this time and stop putting words into my mouth.

     I hear Darkfall is releasing a new title which might be up your ally. Darkfall does only one thing well, mass combat. Other than that it's a mediocre game.

    Ok I'll forget size, however I dont understand your argument from a non-size implication.  Restricting the player from 2 of the 3 factions zones is about what then? 2/3 out of anything is considered a large portion, no matter what the size is. It's basic math really.  You can still have a large world size in the DAoC model while restricting access so size is irrellevant. Yes size is irrelevant. Tamriel however is not irrelevant and one of the biggest selling points for this game is that players get to experience all of it. Except they can't, not without alts.  You also move all PvP to a zone or zones where PvP is consentual and you split the PvE and PvP crowd without having to have seperate servers (like WoW) or relying on isntanced battleground style PvP.  The whole argument for 3 faction RvR is first to promote cooperation, unity and community amongst the factions and give them a goal to work for.  The 3rd faction is there to limit the overopoulated size from having an indefinite population advantage whereby 2 factions (the lower populated factions) can routinely hit the highest populated faction creating a quasi-partnership. Or you just get rid of the shitty tradeoff (the 2/3PvE area) altogether with guilds. Pretty simple really. You get all the same shit that you get with factions plus much more depth with politics etc.


    I'll forgo the condenscencion and obvious breech of MMORPG's TOS and not report you because I want to have an honest and open debate. Those were honest questions, I honestly can't understand how you can have such difficulties to understand what I'm writing. My english ain't that bad, nor is my writing that cryptic, and you obviously know the language too. So that leaves me puzzled about what the problem is. With that being said, could you do a TES game like what you describe and have guilds be the ad-hoc factions? Of course, but then the game would suffer as a result because of all the issues with community and unity that a faction specific game can convey and in the long run, this style turns into nothing more then a WoW clone be default. You mean like EVE has turned into a WoW clone and has no community to speak of? Your whole argument has zero basis.

    They do, from the lore to the open world exploration. A world where your toon is cut off from roughly half of the world is anything but open, sorry.  Even Todd Howard has stated on several occasions, TES has always been about freedom and open world sandbox elements. Exactly, so why TESO then?  For one, theres no reason to suggest that any other form of PvP is more TES like then another. Of course there is, when the chosen system goes against maybe the biggest feature that TES has, freedom to go anywhere you like.  Nor is it out of the realm of lore to suggest that Tamriel could of gone this route in the first place due.  For one, every TES game has been 1 zone/world of Tamriel but then again I dont see you bitching about not being able to play in Morrowind while Playing the Skyrim RPG.  So why is it so hard to fathom not being able to play in Morrowind if you chose to play a member of the Daggerfall Convenant?  [mod edit]

     

    Seriously, think about it...Please!  I boot up the game Skyrim, why cant I go play in Morrowind or Oblivian there?  Why the outrage when the SAME EXACT line of reasoning is ported to MMO then all of a sudden you and everyone whos mad gets pissed.  It makes no sense to me.  So in conclusion until I see an online petition to Bethesda to open up the entire continent of Tamriel in each single player RPG then you have no valid argument.

    Really? You can't come up with a better argument than that? I would be ashamed to write bullshit like that.

     

    .

    The biggest selling point to TESO is I get to play an Elder Scrolls MMO.  Doesnt mattter where its at.  I want to revisit Oblvian therefore I will play a Dunmer.  Simple as that.  So who freaking cares If I cant also play in Hammersfell or Elysweyr.  Could care less if I am restricted to any other zone.  If I wanted to play those other zones (which I dont) I would make a different faction character.

     

    I never saw a Hibernian Bitch because they couldnt travel to Albion.  Same principle here.  Your all wound up over somethign no one cares about, except you.

     

    DAoC is just one method, and dare I say an amazing method at that, that promotes community and teamwork with a faction system.  The same can be said for WoW, I know of no one who complains they cant group with the opposing faction.  Factions foster so much more community, yes even more so then games like Eve where guilds are the only thing that matter.  TESO isnt a political game, it doesnt feature subterfuge and open ended conflicts liek you want the game to portray.  It is a RvR based PvP game designed to foster community and teamwork because the RvR zone is large and the only way to win is to work together.  It stands to reason that having a siege type PvP system designed with faction specific elements to foster those elements in its PvE model.

     

    You also fail to understand the underlying issues with having a realm wide goal without having the realm wide elements to foster that feel.  As stated, faction specifics is jsut one of many ways to get to that point.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • makiimakii noPosts: 280Member
    Originally posted by MercArcher

    Finally someone is starting from scratch, making their own MMO game engine. Being able to fully controll everything about their own engine will be refreshing over the limitations of recent MMOs.

    Three faction PvP is back! DAoC is the undesputed open world PvP game and it hasn't been sucessfully copied yet. With the lead developer of DAoC being the lead developer here I think we have a chance!

    The stamina system is quite possibly the most interesting PvP mechanic i've seen in a LONG time. I'm really looking forward to it it adds a large amount of depth.

    Fully voiced, dynamic content. SWTOR started the fully voiced, and add in GW2 dynamic system and you have a great questing system.

    Ultimate Skills are another wonderful ideas. 0 mana, 0 CD skills that become castable from how you do in combat? I love it!

    Back to the trinity. After GW2 we learned that the trinity exsists for a reason. They are trying to keep a similar action feel while going back to the method that works.

    "BRD style Instances" Gone are the days of linear instances. Go where you want mazes with multiple paths!

    Not a wow-clone. They aren't doing the mistake of so many MMOs recently of copying WoW. Granted WoW was a great game, but if people wanted to play wow they would play wow.

     

    From the information released so far this sounds like it has the possibility to be one amazing game. I'm really looking forward to following the development and trying the betas.

    Dont drag us into your delusional world. There is no savior, there will never be. Its your own fault for beliving so. Its like buying a apple product and realize: the hell, i dont need this crap at all.

  • MeridionMeridion HeidelbergPosts: 1,490Member

    Building everything from scratch, including the engine, is a bad idea. Period. Every game I remember that did this sucked in this department (LotROs handmade animations [while the world engine from DDO rocked], SWTORs iteration of the hero engine, Everquest 2...)

    All the games that used proven and working engines, like Aion, WoW, Rift, GW2 work like a charm.

    Just saying

    M

  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,795Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Meridion

    Building everything from scratch, including the engine, is a bad idea. Period. Every game I remember that did this sucked in this department (LotROs handmade animations [while the world engine from DDO rocked], SWTORs iteration of the hero engine, Everquest 2...)

    All the games that used proven and working engines, like Aion, WoW, Rift, GW2 work like a charm.

    Just saying

    M

    ???

     

    Blizzard made their own engine for WoW, they have used in-house engines for each of their titles for a long time and tend to build code off each game for their next one. Titan for example is being built on an extensively recoded WoW engine.

     

    Same with the Guild Wars 2 engine, made by Arenanet based on the engine (that they also built) for Guild Wars.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

  • BurntvetBurntvet Baltimore, MDPosts: 2,946Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by IAmMMO

     Don't let the hype let you get ahead of yourself, they made it clear what type of MMO it would be when they first announced it thinking the reaction would be joy and celebration, and not the backlash it was.  This game is being made to the drum of share holders. When share holders are involved these days there is no risk taken,especially on innovation.

     I still get the impression it's a money grab on the IP.  I think  an Elders Scroll MMO should be made like it's a much improved Darkfall, and by that I mean one big smealess world, realtime interaction with the world , realtime combat, PVE mobs that don't just stand there, flying npc dragons protecting areas, sailing the seas, naval combat and player towns and villages to cities. Who knows what's going on now after the backlash, a lot may have been scraped and started again for all we know. I hope so! Because the Elders Scroll online they first pitched was chasing WOW and not going out there on it's own IP legs.

    That there is the important bit: the devs/execs gave an unvarished, truthful description of what was coming, before all the "PR coaching" and spin, and releases from the marketing department. That was the truth of it, not the backpedaling and spin control we have been getting since the backlash.

    And that is why I have very little hope for this game.

     

  • ThebigthrillThebigthrill Eastpointe, MIPosts: 117Member
    Another swords and dragons mmorpg, how refreshing.

    "Don't tell me what to do! , you're not my mod"

    Saying invented by me.

  • EmrendilEmrendil TirionPosts: 199Member
    If there's a sub fee, I'll skip this game.
  • TorvalTorval Oregon CountryPosts: 7,217Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kyleran
    Originally posted by MercArcher
    Originally posted by sandboxy
    I don't know if you (OP) are genuinely as clueless as you seem to be or are you just trolling..

    Its pretty clear that all the doomsayers and "wowclone" people are the ones trolling.

    Not to mention all the lore. TES has some of the most established lore in all of gaming.

    The people over at Bioware thought they had the most established lore in all of the known Universe, they found out that lore is pretty far down on the list of what's important when developing a successful MMORPG.

    It's all about the gameplay in the end, the lore could be totally unknown.

    Yeah, check in with Turbine and Funcom how "the most established lore in all of gaming" went for them.  Established lore carries a lot of baggage with it.  There are a lot of diverse expectations and pleasing all those crowds is tricky.

    It's all about making a fun compelling game.  Lore is a bonus if they can get the fun and compelling parts down. So far all the above haven't got the fun and compelling parts down.

  • IcewhiteIcewhite Elmhurst, ILPosts: 6,403Member

    Two bad things happening in this thread:

    • Similarities to previous games, automatic winner.
    • Similarities to previous games, automatic loser.
    In other words, the usual hype and anti-hype (anti-hype follows the same rules as hype, except for adopting "doom" as the automatic rather than "win").

    Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.

  • SicaeSicae LulePosts: 110Member
    Originally posted by Icewhite

    Two bad things happening in this thread:

    • Similarities to previous games, automatic winner.
    • Similarities to previous games, automatic loser.
    In other words, the usual hype and anti-hype (anti-hype follows the same rules as hype, except for adopting "doom" as the automatic rather than "win").

    Sadly, thats what you get on these kinds of forums. To actually discuss the basis of the game you need to go to a dedicated forum.

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