This thread is jsut as ridiculous as the doom sayer ones considering it's all based on a list of general design goals released as hype with no real examples of how those goals will be implemented and a few screens and vids of the game mocked up on an engine they won't even be using in the final product.
Nice spin OP, but after they riped everything Elderscrolls out of ESO and wrapped what remained in a WoW MMORPG
game mechanic. it certainly seems like a WoW clone with elderscrolls lore
Its actually not a WoW clone. Its more of a GW2 clone, especially when it comes to combat & mechanics. In other areas its copying things from other games, like the RvR of DAOC. Very little from what theyve released so far actually sounds like WoW.
As I said in another thread. It may actually turn out to be a surprisingly great game if they combine some of the aspects theyre bringing from other games well. Just wish TES wasnt attached to it, because its only TES in lore, not in gameplay or mechanics at all. Their excuses for why it isnt are also quite lame.
Unfortunately, even though its called TES, you'll need to go into it not expecting a TES game and try to enjoy it for what it is. I thought it sounded like complete and utter garbage at first, but as more info has been released I feel they actually are working with some pretty cool things.
Tbh i think this will yust be a normal standard from the mill MMO, with totally 0 relation to the Elder Scrolls itself. They probably yust do this because of getting more popularity under MMO-playing audience.. but in my opinion this surely wont be a game that stands for The Elder Scrolls..
I think youre completely missing the point. Youre right TES has been around for a long time and had very different mechanics than WoW and GW2.
But we're talking about TES Online. TES Online mechanics are not the same as normal TES (which is why people are pissed off). For starters, its tab targetting & hotkey based combat, not twitch style combat.
Theyre more like GW2. As I said in my last post, watch the video.
Similarities to GW2:
- low number of skills on hotbar link to specific roles (ie: weapon skills, healing, utility)
- first few skills in your hotbar are specific to a weapon type and not able to be changed
- "Synergy" which is identical to combo fields in GW2 (ie: mage creates a ring of fire, warrior runs in and whirlwinds which causes fireballs to shoot out from the warrior)
- rings on the ground to show friendly & enemy AoE fields
- focus on making the few skills you have useful / powerful rather than several hotbars full of skills that you will rarely / never use
several other similarities too, dont feel like watching it again though. you can see for yourself
It's basicly daoc 2 in the elder scrolls universe.
Some of the things tes fans are worrying about with the "wow clone" propaganda are needless worries. E.g. linear progression, quest hubs, hard trinity, heavily instanced - because daoc wasn't like that, and the description of TESO by the devs suggest the same.
So it won't be like tes but multi player. But it won't be the polar opposite either like say swtor.
They should focus on more sandbox features and toss in themepark rides on top. The reverse of this makes a lackluster experience because we have all been to a themepark. Look at it this way, you go to bush gardens when your little, its amazing, the rides are fun and it is a new experience. As you grow up you go to a different bush gardens, disney, kings dominion, cedar point...ect ect ect. While each place has a different ride, they are all still pretty much the same. Tthat is how I feel about theme park mmos and which is why I dont care for them anymore.
Originally posted by timeraider Tbh i think this will yust be a normal standard from the mill MMO, with totally 0 relation to the Elder Scrolls itself. They probably yust do this because of getting more popularity under MMO-playing audience.. but in my opinion this surely wont be a game that stands for The Elder Scrolls..
This.
It will be another in a long line of mediocre games, with "very similar" game mechincs to every other major game released in the last 6-8 years, and it will sell a few boxes and then crash, like all the other games.
It is clear from the dev interviews, that they are greatly deviating from what is considered "ES gameplay", on many fronts. Plus, all of the "That's too hard" comments from the devs as to why a lot of desired features won't be in there do not inspire much confidence either.
The core of ES SPG gameplay is choice and freedom. It is clear from almost everything the devs have said, there will be much, much less of those as compared to a normal ES title (locked skill classes, restricted by race, alliances restricted, level restricted content, and on and on).
So, in the end, it will not be a game that ES fans will likely enjoy, just "another MMO" with ES on the box.
Originally posted by ShakyMo Yes Open world dungeons Rvr endgame Political system Tes crafting / soul harvesting No quest hubs Mix of gw2 and tes combat No agro mechanics
Sounds exactly like wow doesn't it 8?
The funny thing is, I have seen all those things in one form or another in other MMO's. I am not sure how a game built like other MMO's is going to SAVE MMO's.
GW2 = tons of lock-on skills. I hate lock-on skills.
TESO mor of FPS/strategy engaging/interacting skills and world it self, they do have some similarities, but arent they all, and that dosn't mean they used it from another MMO.
TESO is not " THE" savior of MMO, not one game ever could be, no point to even argue about it.
The basic point of this thread is people are desperate for an amazing online experience that developers of recent games and many before that have failed to deliever. In desperation people have forked over hundreds of dollars for the next big thing. Unfortunately, all of the next big things have not been big or in some cases things at all. Hord that money. Make them really work for it.
Originally posted by gravesworn The basic point of this thread is people are desperate for an amazing online experience that developers of recent games and many before that have failed to deliever. In desperation people have forked over hundreds of dollars for the next big thing. Unfortunately, all of the next big things have not been big or in some cases things at all. Hord that money. Make them really work for it.
I don't know, maybe for some people, but many gamers are excited about GW2, there are still millions of people enjoying WoW and for the Sandbox crowd I see a lot of excitement about DF:UW. For the future, many gamers are looking forward to ArchAge.
I just don't see MMO's needing saving. There are MMO's of nearly every style out there if you look.
I'm not going to believe it until the game comes out and I watch live streams of the gameplay for a little while and news and reviews from legit gaming sites.
Looking at: The Repopulation Preordering: None Playing: Random Games
I appreciate your enthusiasm OP, but everything I have heard and seen has been in stark contrast to what you claim. So much so that I have no hope for this MMO at this point. Nevermind it's TES in name only. Ask Turbine how that worked out for them with AC2.
I see another SWTOR type crash and burn with this one.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
This RvRvR in TESO is a double-edged sword, it does deliver average form of PvP for endgame purposes, on the other hand it makes 2/3 of the PvE-area of the gameworld unreachable to any character. In a way, you are almost forced to make alts. That is not a good thing.
Actually it is one of the worst ideas I've ever ran into in any MMO.
Seriously, instead of this stupid faction thing, why not just allow guilds to handle the whole thing. Let Cyrodiil be the PvP area, but let people choose the side (guild) they belong to. This way whole Tamriel would stay open to everyone. I would buy this game.
I wont be buying TESO.
So your an expert on how big the 3 different factions zones are? Or what is the best PvP system?
Fact of the matter is DAoC had 3 factions and 2 of the factions zones were locked out for you and there was ZERO open world PvP. DAoC was one of the higest critically acclaimed MMO's so now it is not one of the worst ideas ever to copy alot of its prevelant elements.
There are plenty of Open World PvP games for you to play, there has only been 2, COUNT IT: 2, multi faction specific RvR games, TESO is not a PvP game, it is an RvR so get it throguh your head please.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
The folks attempting to create Citadel of Sorcery are truly working on an innovative title that would revolutionize the MMORPG space, this really is iteration number 18 of the standard theme park MMO with some DAOC style RVR grafted on to the end game. See WAR.
I doubt with that concept CoS could even break 1million subs. Sure it will be great for people who want a sandbox MMO, but there aren't that many of them. It would lack a centralized end game which is what most people are looking for. Not minecraft as an MMO.
Do you even know what you are talking about when you say a "centralized end game"? Because I don'r. Do you read game forums often? If you did, you would know that there are a ton of gamers who are getting tired of copy-cat MMO's. A lot of people are getting tired of the same instanced battlegrounds and dungeons. Which is pretty much the end game of any recent themepark MMO.
The biggest problem with sandbox games is that AAA developers do not attempt them. All it takes is one of those developers to put in the time, money and effort into a real sandbox style MMO and you would really see how many sandbox fans there are. Why are we starting to see MMO's with sandbox elements? That answer should slap you in the face and leave you looking stupid. It's obviously because there are a lot of gamers who are asking for them. Developers generally don't throw in random features for no reason, that doesn't make sense.
The genre is beginning to go in a new direction. And all of you anti-sandbox gamers will soon be in the minority, whether you like it or not. You'll finally come to realize that all of the old timer MMO gamers were actually right the whole time.
This RvRvR in TESO is a double-edged sword, it does deliver average form of PvP for endgame purposes, on the other hand it makes 2/3 of the PvE-area of the gameworld unreachable to any character. In a way, you are almost forced to make alts. That is not a good thing.
Actually it is one of the worst ideas I've ever ran into in any MMO.
Seriously, instead of this stupid faction thing, why not just allow guilds to handle the whole thing. Let Cyrodiil be the PvP area, but let people choose the side (guild) they belong to. This way whole Tamriel would stay open to everyone. I would buy this game.
I wont be buying TESO.
So your an expert on how big the 3 different factions zones are? Or what is the best PvP system?
Fact of the matter is DAoC had 3 factions and 2 of the factions zones were locked out for you and there was ZERO open world PvP. DAoC was one of the higest critically acclaimed MMO's so now it is not one of the worst ideas ever to copy alot of its prevelant elements.
There are plenty of Open World PvP games for you to play, there has only been 2, COUNT IT: 2, multi faction specific RvR games, TESO is not a PvP game, it is an RvR so get it throguh your head please.
False.
Did you play DAoC? All three realms were available for you to travel to, by way of the frontier lands. Now, it wasn't easy to get into enemy lands, but it wasn't impossible. There wasn't ZERO open world PvP. Now, it takes a larger force to run interference, but a small group could make a break for it as long as the gates were open and NPC fire was focused elsewhere. You could then pillage the leveling areas until you died. There were also public dungeons in frontier lands and you could fight for control of them. How many MMO's have territory control system that actually exists in the actual game world? Very few is the answer. Taking some lessons from what they did with DAoC's PvP system is a wise choice. It was a marvel of a system in it's day. Clearly, we should be able to do a lot more today with the technology available.
It's sad to see, however, that no one can manage to bring back the same meaningful PvP in a themepark... a decade later.
This RvRvR in TESO is a double-edged sword, it does deliver average form of PvP for endgame purposes, on the other hand it makes 2/3 of the PvE-area of the gameworld unreachable to any character. In a way, you are almost forced to make alts. That is not a good thing.
Actually it is one of the worst ideas I've ever ran into in any MMO.
Seriously, instead of this stupid faction thing, why not just allow guilds to handle the whole thing. Let Cyrodiil be the PvP area, but let people choose the side (guild) they belong to. This way whole Tamriel would stay open to everyone. I would buy this game.
I wont be buying TESO.
So your an expert on how big the 3 different factions zones are? Or what is the best PvP system?
Fact of the matter is DAoC had 3 factions and 2 of the factions zones were locked out for you and there was ZERO open world PvP. DAoC was one of the higest critically acclaimed MMO's so now it is not one of the worst ideas ever to copy alot of its prevelant elements.
There are plenty of Open World PvP games for you to play, there has only been 2, COUNT IT: 2, multi faction specific RvR games, TESO is not a PvP game, it is an RvR so get it throguh your head please.
There have also only been 2 (count them 2: Darkfall and Mortal) FPS fantasy MMORPGs with TES gameplay.
So what's your point?
Should I trot out the argument that "because it hasn't been done very much by big companies it is unpopular" which is frequently used to denegrate FFA PVP systems? Or should I say that after playing DAOC for 2 years since its launch I found RvR getting stale and repetitive after a month, whereas Darkfall's open PvP and siege mechanics never got stale for a second?
Hate to break it to you but DAOC was mediocre at best, RvR being its only saving grace. SWG was, shockingly, a much better game in all respects, and still had amazingly fun world PvP without resorting to such a boring, repetitive, closed-off system like RvR, which is why I switched over. There was more freedom, you could go anywhere, you could be neutral, hell you could just be a merchant if you wanted, there was no "forced war" which, unless the factions in ESO are drafting, my character would have no part of. But no, even if I am personally neutral, I'm still aligned with that faction as far as the game is concerned. That's annoying, frankly, and does not really capture the go-anywhere do-anything essence of The Elder Scrolls.
If you want to play DAOC, go and play it, it still exists.
But for Elder Scrolls fans, those other open world games, aren't in the world of TES, so we don't care about them.
Why would you want to take a mediocre 10-year-old design paradigm and use it to shit all over what could have been one of the most engaging and innovative MMORPGs ever released, had it stuck closely to what makes TES special in the first place (not just the lore)?
Really, that's more of a question for the developers. I'd love to hear a real answer.
Comments
http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/innovation
Its actually not a WoW clone. Its more of a GW2 clone, especially when it comes to combat & mechanics. In other areas its copying things from other games, like the RvR of DAOC. Very little from what theyve released so far actually sounds like WoW.
Watch this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pDPuaU1xgY and youll see what I mean regarding GW2. Most of what they discuss sounds identical to GW2.
As I said in another thread. It may actually turn out to be a surprisingly great game if they combine some of the aspects theyre bringing from other games well. Just wish TES wasnt attached to it, because its only TES in lore, not in gameplay or mechanics at all. Their excuses for why it isnt are also quite lame.
Unfortunately, even though its called TES, you'll need to go into it not expecting a TES game and try to enjoy it for what it is. I thought it sounded like complete and utter garbage at first, but as more info has been released I feel they actually are working with some pretty cool things.
So, you're saying ES took wow and gw2 mechanics?
ES started in 1994. What are you talking about?
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
I think youre completely missing the point. Youre right TES has been around for a long time and had very different mechanics than WoW and GW2.
But we're talking about TES Online. TES Online mechanics are not the same as normal TES (which is why people are pissed off). For starters, its tab targetting & hotkey based combat, not twitch style combat.
Theyre more like GW2. As I said in my last post, watch the video.
Similarities to GW2:
- low number of skills on hotbar link to specific roles (ie: weapon skills, healing, utility)
- first few skills in your hotbar are specific to a weapon type and not able to be changed
- "Synergy" which is identical to combo fields in GW2 (ie: mage creates a ring of fire, warrior runs in and whirlwinds which causes fireballs to shoot out from the warrior)
- rings on the ground to show friendly & enemy AoE fields
- focus on making the few skills you have useful / powerful rather than several hotbars full of skills that you will rarely / never use
several other similarities too, dont feel like watching it again though. you can see for yourself
Some of the things tes fans are worrying about with the "wow clone" propaganda are needless worries. E.g. linear progression, quest hubs, hard trinity, heavily instanced - because daoc wasn't like that, and the description of TESO by the devs suggest the same.
So it won't be like tes but multi player. But it won't be the polar opposite either like say swtor.
It will be somewhere inbetween.
This.
It will be another in a long line of mediocre games, with "very similar" game mechincs to every other major game released in the last 6-8 years, and it will sell a few boxes and then crash, like all the other games.
It is clear from the dev interviews, that they are greatly deviating from what is considered "ES gameplay", on many fronts. Plus, all of the "That's too hard" comments from the devs as to why a lot of desired features won't be in there do not inspire much confidence either.
The core of ES SPG gameplay is choice and freedom. It is clear from almost everything the devs have said, there will be much, much less of those as compared to a normal ES title (locked skill classes, restricted by race, alliances restricted, level restricted content, and on and on).
So, in the end, it will not be a game that ES fans will likely enjoy, just "another MMO" with ES on the box.
The funny thing is, I have seen all those things in one form or another in other MMO's. I am not sure how a game built like other MMO's is going to SAVE MMO's.
@kaiser3282.
I did whatch that video.
This is another one
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ugSSwuKsPKI&feature=related
Now.
WoW = point select 123,123,123. panda.
GW2 = tons of lock-on skills. I hate lock-on skills.
TESO mor of FPS/strategy engaging/interacting skills and world it self, they do have some similarities, but arent they all, and that dosn't mean they used it from another MMO.
TESO is not " THE" savior of MMO, not one game ever could be, no point to even argue about it.
I'm not saying its "the saviour",I'm just pointing out the "wow clone" and "swtor 2" hyperbole for what it is. Bullshit.
So what do we know?
Elder Scrolls Online:
OMG THIS IS THE SAVIOR!
Before making a topic like this you might want to read up what this game is all about..
They raped their own elder scrolls name hard in the ass and made the same themepark i have already been playing.
I don't know, maybe for some people, but many gamers are excited about GW2, there are still millions of people enjoying WoW and for the Sandbox crowd I see a lot of excitement about DF:UW. For the future, many gamers are looking forward to ArchAge.
I just don't see MMO's needing saving. There are MMO's of nearly every style out there if you look.
Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games
Sigh...here we go again...
I appreciate your enthusiasm OP, but everything I have heard and seen has been in stark contrast to what you claim. So much so that I have no hope for this MMO at this point. Nevermind it's TES in name only. Ask Turbine how that worked out for them with AC2.
I see another SWTOR type crash and burn with this one.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
same here.
Looking at: The Repopulation
Preordering: None
Playing: Random Games
So your an expert on how big the 3 different factions zones are? Or what is the best PvP system?
Fact of the matter is DAoC had 3 factions and 2 of the factions zones were locked out for you and there was ZERO open world PvP. DAoC was one of the higest critically acclaimed MMO's so now it is not one of the worst ideas ever to copy alot of its prevelant elements.
There are plenty of Open World PvP games for you to play, there has only been 2, COUNT IT: 2, multi faction specific RvR games, TESO is not a PvP game, it is an RvR so get it throguh your head please.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Do you even know what you are talking about when you say a "centralized end game"? Because I don'r. Do you read game forums often? If you did, you would know that there are a ton of gamers who are getting tired of copy-cat MMO's. A lot of people are getting tired of the same instanced battlegrounds and dungeons. Which is pretty much the end game of any recent themepark MMO.
The biggest problem with sandbox games is that AAA developers do not attempt them. All it takes is one of those developers to put in the time, money and effort into a real sandbox style MMO and you would really see how many sandbox fans there are. Why are we starting to see MMO's with sandbox elements? That answer should slap you in the face and leave you looking stupid. It's obviously because there are a lot of gamers who are asking for them. Developers generally don't throw in random features for no reason, that doesn't make sense.
The genre is beginning to go in a new direction. And all of you anti-sandbox gamers will soon be in the minority, whether you like it or not. You'll finally come to realize that all of the old timer MMO gamers were actually right the whole time.
False.
Did you play DAoC? All three realms were available for you to travel to, by way of the frontier lands. Now, it wasn't easy to get into enemy lands, but it wasn't impossible. There wasn't ZERO open world PvP. Now, it takes a larger force to run interference, but a small group could make a break for it as long as the gates were open and NPC fire was focused elsewhere. You could then pillage the leveling areas until you died. There were also public dungeons in frontier lands and you could fight for control of them. How many MMO's have territory control system that actually exists in the actual game world? Very few is the answer. Taking some lessons from what they did with DAoC's PvP system is a wise choice. It was a marvel of a system in it's day. Clearly, we should be able to do a lot more today with the technology available.
It's sad to see, however, that no one can manage to bring back the same meaningful PvP in a themepark... a decade later.
There have also only been 2 (count them 2: Darkfall and Mortal) FPS fantasy MMORPGs with TES gameplay.
So what's your point?
Should I trot out the argument that "because it hasn't been done very much by big companies it is unpopular" which is frequently used to denegrate FFA PVP systems? Or should I say that after playing DAOC for 2 years since its launch I found RvR getting stale and repetitive after a month, whereas Darkfall's open PvP and siege mechanics never got stale for a second?
Hate to break it to you but DAOC was mediocre at best, RvR being its only saving grace. SWG was, shockingly, a much better game in all respects, and still had amazingly fun world PvP without resorting to such a boring, repetitive, closed-off system like RvR, which is why I switched over. There was more freedom, you could go anywhere, you could be neutral, hell you could just be a merchant if you wanted, there was no "forced war" which, unless the factions in ESO are drafting, my character would have no part of. But no, even if I am personally neutral, I'm still aligned with that faction as far as the game is concerned. That's annoying, frankly, and does not really capture the go-anywhere do-anything essence of The Elder Scrolls.
If you want to play DAOC, go and play it, it still exists.
But for Elder Scrolls fans, those other open world games, aren't in the world of TES, so we don't care about them.
Why would you want to take a mediocre 10-year-old design paradigm and use it to shit all over what could have been one of the most engaging and innovative MMORPGs ever released, had it stuck closely to what makes TES special in the first place (not just the lore)?
Really, that's more of a question for the developers. I'd love to hear a real answer.
IT DOESN'T HAVE ANY PVP
So whatever pvp model they pick is different to skyrim.
Using a rvr system is just as valid as using a ffa system.
At least they didn't go with a tupperware pvp model.