Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by ste2000 MMOs 8 years ago were worlds..................today MMOs are just games.
Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".
couldn't be more off the mark. If games 8 years ago were so bad why does SWG have a almost Cult following even after it shut down. Or WoW? with (according to them)over 10mil in subs? EQI or EQII? Not sure where you were 8 years ago but I was playing with alot more people in mmos then I can say for most current mmo's. F2P ones aside that are flooded with tight A$$es that cry about even the option of a monthly sub. Sure we had fewer options but they were better options and I'm not alone in that idea.
Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".
couldn't be more off the mark. If games 8 years ago were so bad why does SWG have a almost Cult following even after it shut down. Or WoW? with (according to them)over 10mil in subs? EQI or EQII? Not sure where you were 8 years ago but I was playing with alot more people in mmos then I can say for most current mmo's. F2P ones aside that are flooded with tight A$$es that cry about even the option of a monthly sub. Sure we had fewer options but they were better options and I'm not alone in that idea.
8+ years ago MMOs were very much a niche. Now they rival SP games in sales. I rest my case.
Even Reliant Robin has a fan club and dedicated following but still that doesn't make it a good car.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I haven't played an MMO in maybe a year or more myself. Still keeping my eye's open in case something interesting comes along and there are a few smaller/indie projects on the horizon that I'm looking at. Might give PS2 a whirl when it comes out of beta but that's more of a MMOFPS.
I find that even alot of the single player games coming out today are pretty, meh. Skyrim was one big exception. I find myself doing alot of PBEM Turn Based Strategy Games (the guys over at Matrix Games sell alot of the stuff I like) and trying to get more into the virtual tabletop PnP stuff.
Every once in awhile a good single player game will come out that evinces some of the quality of the older classic games. For example I lost about 20 hours last weekend playing Fallen Enchantress....which is a real homage to the old masters of magic/ Heroes of Might & Magic style games....and one of the best PC games I've seen come out in a long time.
As far as MMO's, I've tried a beta here and there but haven't actualy PLAYED one since I quit LOTRO over a year ago. Right now I'm just in wait and see mode.
Originally posted by Elikal Sigh. For a very long time I was really, really interested in MMOs. I followed the development of each of it, and tried a lot of them. But among the DOZENS of MMO I play, I can only say of three of them, that I played them a long time. Everquest II, SWG and LOTRO. Those were the only MMOs I actually played years.Now they are all more or less old. So maybe I too changed, but I can't help to think that MMOs changed and most important the community changed. If I recall these three MMOs and the dividing factor compared to the other MMOs, in EQ2, SWG and LOTRO I found an active community. (Lotro speaking of the first 2 years here.)Ever since then, I never have been in a MMO more than a couple of months, 3-4 at best. And that is not satisfactory. Not at all. All these short-term MMOs I more or less played like a single player game, only that the single player aspect of a MMO is MUCH worse than a real single player game. Overall, I see that as a game itself, MMOs are relatively bad games. All of them. For some reasons MMOs never really unfolded their true potential, and I mean NONE of it. All of them are/were more or less crappy, broken, limited and half-baked; only sometimes the setting, sometimes the community, sometimes a few features kept me for a while. Like the 4 months I played my two mains in SWTOR to max, going through 2 story arcs. Or my 3 months in WAR for the RVR.But overall... MMOs are just a very basic and mediocre form of games, compared how far the other types of computer games evolved. They are also all of them singleminded, like focussed on one or two strengths and totally neglecting the other. Now I sure will come here regularly, follow the ongoings, but after the GW2 letdown (entirely personally speaking!), that after 1-2 months I already feel I have seen enough of it, I see that my time where I was a vivid MMO gamer simply comes to an end, and I feel my aspirations are again more wanting good single player games. Games with a real start, middle and end; games with a real purpose and structure. RPGs, strategy games, adventures, maybe some action games too. I feel I enjoy them nowadays so much more. And it's sad. But I simply cannot find a real community and I just can not join a Guild anymore! I was in many guilds, those of the three MMOs mentioned had the best, but the guilds today... I don't feel I fit into them anymore. They have either too eager powerplayers, too young people with a different focus on life, or they are mere chat channels where nobody ACTUALLY does something together. And I simply have no will to make guild hopping, chosing a new guild every 2 weeks.It's a pity. I miss the experience I had in the years I played SWG and EQ2 especially. But ever since, I never found that again. And each new MMO just let me down more. SWTOR was a really bad experience which left me scarred and GW2... sorry but for ME at least it is so limited and so quick to bore me. I do not blame the game, I know after SO MANY flops and halfassed MMOs I just can't take it anymore. And as I said, the days where MMO gamers were a small, tight knit community are just gone forever. Now it's a mass market for millions, and that just doesn't work for me.You ain't gonna get rid of me here, but I kinda hadto make a statement for myself here.
Well if you ever want to play rift, come to faeblight. I played swg for its duration and tried to get into many mmo both during nge and after they shut it down last year. Faeblight feels like a good mmo home. Hope to see you there
Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".
couldn't be more off the mark. If games 8 years ago were so bad why does SWG have a almost Cult following even after it shut down. Or WoW? with (according to them)over 10mil in subs? EQI or EQII? Not sure where you were 8 years ago but I was playing with alot more people in mmos then I can say for most current mmo's. F2P ones aside that are flooded with tight A$$es that cry about even the option of a monthly sub. Sure we had fewer options but they were better options and I'm not alone in that idea.
8+ years ago MMOs were very much a niche. Now they rival SP games in sales. I rest my case.
Even Reliant Robin has a fan club and dedicated following but still that doesn't make it a good car.
I'm not sure How this rebuttle even has bearing on the 1st quote but ok what ever floats your boat
Originally posted by ste2000 MMOs 8 years ago were worlds..................today MMOs are just games.
Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".
Disagree, they might have been SIMPLER games or had fewer features doesn't make them WORSE games.
Case in point, I had a buddy back in college with a '65 Buick. Thing was over 20 years old and had over 500K miles on it. No matter what abuse was dished out it kept running like a race horse. A couple years back my boss (at the time) bought himself one of those fancy new hybrids, had all the bells and whistles on it. That thing was in the shop every 3 months and nearly killed him when the CPU freaked out and decided to automaticaly accelerate the car on it's own. The '65 Buick was BY FAR the better care even though it didn't have an air-conditioned glove box or a camera for backing up.
Well, I suppose I"m less interested in mmo's but I was more interested in them as a mixture of morrowind and neverwinter nights which is what I thought they were and which they are not.
I've enjoyed myself in several mmo's and I think I'll still play them from time to time but after Lineage 2 I've yet to find a game that captured me in the same way.
Of course, the obvious remark would be "that was your first mmo and first mmo love" but the more I think on it the more I realize that isn't completely it.
The game was a brutal world that brought people together and it was a rather large world where you had to be dedicated. There was a bit of exploration and of course there was castle ownership, alliances, a pride in who you were, etc.
The other obvious remark is "well, lineage 2 is still there, go play it". Thing is I always hated the brutal economy. Even now, with a better economy it still feels like i have to spend more time making money than I want.
I've been playing a lot of skyrim, been enjoying Glactic Civilizations II, and bought disonored and x-com.
I still play a bit of Tera, Aion and Vanguard but I don't spend near enough time in them as the single player games.
Well, we'll see how archage fairs. I think I'll always buy them and play them but I have always preferred single player games as they are always more interesting.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
It's sad to say, but the one game that comes closest to what I want is Sims 3. Unfortunately, it also bores me to death after I've played through each expansion once or twice. So, using Sims 3 as a paradigm (model or baseline) these are my pros and cons. [I'm bringing this into the conversation only as an attempt to quantify what I want in an MMORPG.]
PROS
Multiple career paths (and can change paths at any time)
Optional quests
Real life needs (eating, bathing, using a toilet, recreation, socializing, sleep)
Personality types that drive a character's response to various situations
An agricultural component (gardening and Pets Expansion)
[my favorite] ability to completely customize houses and other structures and do extensive landscaping
Lots of things to do -- collecting, fishing, dungeon crawling (not that great), training pets (dogs and horses)
When the Pets Expansion came out I was in 7th heaven for a while because I'm a former horsewoman, and the depth of Equestian-related professions and skills was most compelling
NPCs are more "life like" than any other game I've yet encountered
With the next Seasons expansion, weather will become a factor -- rain storms, deep snow, lightning strikes
A martial arts component, where skill level is based on the amount of training done (unfortunately, what you can use this skill for in the end leaves me wanting terribly for more)
CONS
No meaningful combat (beating up on mummies is laughable)
No MMO component (this is huge for me)
Game worlds are relatively small (also huge for me)
Too many rabbit holes
Non MMO movement and navigation
If someone would give me an MMORPG that included the PROs and corrected the CONs, with the addition of open-world, meaningful PvP (not just fighting for fighting's sake) and economy driven by meaningful, highly varied, challenging professions, I'd subscribe in a heartbeat and would be willing to dig deeply into my wallet.
Edit: at it's basest level, MMORPGs need to be more realistic. The fact that a character can fight for four hours straight, then go into a two-hour raid is ridiculous. For instance: shear logistics. At Gettysburg and the Little Big Horn (both fought in very hot, mid-summer periods) drinking water became a terribly important factor. So, logistics should play importantly in MMORPG combat -- do we carry extra water or more ammunition? I know this flies in the face of what most players desire ... they want infinite load capacity, insta-heals, meaningless death. Contrariwise, I want a game that's thoughtful, requiring a degree of planning before combat, and significant decisionmaking beforehand. But I'm old (28) and I guess I'm just asking for too much given the ubiquitous "wham bam thank you ma'am" attitude of most gamers.
Disagree, they might have been SIMPLER games or had fewer features doesn't make them WORSE games.
Case in point, I had a buddy back in college with a '65 Buick. Thing was over 20 years old and had over 500K miles on it. No matter what abuse was dished out it kept running like a race horse. A couple years back my boss (at the time) bought himself one of those fancy new hybrids, had all the bells and whistles on it. That thing was in the shop every 3 months and nearly killed him when the CPU freaked out and decided to automaticaly accelerate the car on it's own. The '65 Buick was BY FAR the better care even though it didn't have an air-conditioned glove box or a camera for backing up.
Things are not made to last anymore. I have a friend who has had the same optical mouse for atleast 5-6 years and in that time I've gone through 5 of them (its worth noting he abuses his mouse more than me mine). My parents also have a microwave oven close to 25 years old (!!) and it works like a charm. Today's ovens... they basically just rot in the shelf even if you don't use them.
But this is OT.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
I really started up with WoW, then LotRO and some EQ2. For all the hate WoW gets around here, and all the crappy design changes they've made over the years, it really used to be a great MMO for me. It's just long in the tooth, and way too simplified these days.
I was kind of holding out hope for SWtOR, but that turned out to be a major letdown
There is litterally nothing on the horizon that has me the least bit excited. In terms of IP, the Elder Scrolls Online game should be interesting, but once they stated they are just doing the same old crap that WoW does, I flushed that dream down the toilet as well.
The worst part is, there aren't really any good single player RPG's to look forward to etiher, because all of the big publishers are focusing on consoles and making sure they have multiplayer or cash shop/dlc components to them.
All in all, it's a bad time for the industry right now.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Originally posted by GrumpyMel2 Disagree, they might have been SIMPLER games or had fewer features doesn't make them WORSE games.Case in point, I had a buddy back in college with a '65 Buick. Thing was over 20 years old and had over 500K miles on it. No matter what abuse was dished out it kept running like a race horse. A couple years back my boss (at the time) bought himself one of those fancy new hybrids, had all the bells and whistles on it. That thing was in the shop every 3 months and nearly killed him when the CPU freaked out and decided to automaticaly accelerate the car on it's own. The '65 Buick was BY FAR the better care even though it didn't have an air-conditioned glove box or a camera for backing up.
Things are not made to last anymore. I have a friend who has had the same optical mouse for atleast 5-6 years and in that time I've gone through 5 of them (its worth noting he abuses his mouse more than me mine). My parents also have a microwave oven close to 25 years old (!!) and it works like a charm. Today's ovens... they basically just rot in the shelf even if you don't use them.But this is OT.
To bring it back around, games are no longer built to last, either.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Well, I suppose I"m less interested in mmo's but I was more interested in them as a mixture of morrowind and neverwinter nights which is what I thought they were and which they are not.
I've enjoyed myself in several mmo's and I think I'll still play them from time to time but after Lineage 2 I've yet to find a game that captured me in the same way.
Of course, the obvious remark would be "that was your first mmo and first mmo love" but the more I think on it the more I realize that isn't completely it.
The game was a brutal world that brought people together and it was a rather large world where you had to be dedicated. There was a bit of exploration and of course there was castle ownership, alliances, a pride in who you were, etc.
The other obvious remark is "well, lineage 2 is still there, go play it". Thing is I always hated the brutal economy. Even now, with a better economy it still feels like i have to spend more time making money than I want.
I've been playing a lot of skyrim, been enjoying Glactic Civilizations II, and bought disonored and x-com.
I still play a bit of Tera, Aion and Vanguard but I don't spend near enough time in them as the single player games.
Well, we'll see how archage fairs. I think I'll always buy them and play them but I have always preferred single player games as they are always more interesting.
You see when I came to MMOs, I had a Pen and Paper background. Not so much D&D, more the German "The Dark Eye", which is WAY less combat oriented and more story-driven. You can have an entire evening with 1-2 fights in some adventures. In the Dark Eye P&P you essentially play a fantasy story. Some classes can't even fight. That was and remains what I am seeking in a TRUE MMO which maybe someday comes. It may be on a greater scale.
THAT is also why I put so much emphasis all the time on SWG-entertainers and the other non combat "classes" of SWG like Creature Handler asf.
I see the ideal MMORPG as a sort of Pen and Paper-story driven world setting. You get a sort of overall mission, not so strictly a quest. In The Dark Eye you do not get XP for kills, as in D&D, you get XP at the end of the story, either all the same, or some extra XP for how well you played your role or contributed to the success. That may be how well you sneaked and got intel, or how well you persuaded someone, or how well you bartered or anything that is within your powers. That MAY be fighting, but The Dark Eye has many classes which hardly can do any combat. I would want such a MMO have a holistic approach.
First, 80% of all you do requires a party, that remains together for a prolongued time. See EQ2 in the early times. It would be a story that evolves slowly, could be made into smaller and longer adventures or missions, but they all have some line to make sense. It would be more "missions", split it quests and open world events equally. Always related to you and your party. And in several cases making a permanent change in the world, which I only see possible via phasing. It would not be such an "open" world for all the same as we are used to, but not a totally instanced world like DDO quests. Despite the issues, I see phasing so far as the best compromise between meaningful impact and open world.
It would not be so much an individual story as in SWTOR, but the story of your group. Sure, that would limit your playtime to times when they all have time, but why not? Better a few hours a week REALLY meaningful experiences, than 8 hours a day mindless grind.
Sure, these are just basic, rough ideas. But THAT was and is what I would seek in a MMORPG, an online transition of story driven Pen and Paper games, NOT entirely combat-centered and team-based missions inside of an open massive world. Yeah, I guess finding the Holy Grail is easy compared to that, heh. But I seriously think the current line of MMOs is WAY too much thinking inside the box, inside given paradigms of what a MMO is supposed to be like. And I am simply tired of this stone-age idea.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Things are not made to last anymore. I have a friend who has had the same optical mouse for atleast 5-6 years and in that time I've gone through 5 of them (its worth noting he abuses his mouse more than me mine). My parents also have a microwave oven close to 25 years old (!!) and it works like a charm. Today's ovens... they basically just rot in the shelf even if you don't use them.
But this is OT.
To bring it back around, games are no longer built to last, either.
I knew someone was going to grasp on to that; It was somewhat of a low hanging fruit afterall. The old games had grind and timesinks, much more than today's games. By and large, players no longer tolerate the same amount of wasting time and stretched content anymore. They identify such features fairly quickly. They've also become very effective in finding and exploiting vulnerable mechanics.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by ste2000 MMOs 8 years ago were worlds..................today MMOs are just games.
Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".
There are games that you guys want out there...you just aren't supporting them because they aren't AAA titles...and never will be. The MMO's you want have always been made by a few coders who put their heart and soul into the making their visions. They didn't need much, not even a lot of people, but a few supporters. Instead, now in days, you won't even give indys the time of day because they don't have supporting them, and the indies fall by the 'waste' side...
It's just like anything else in this world. The financially stable "Pimp My Crib" fast stores bring in millions of people with no individuality, while our table top gaming homes were housed in old hole-in-the-walls barely making ends meet, but there was a family bond there where all indivuduals had respect. The mainstream stays waway from these places because they simply have no clue. No matter how many proffessions a game has, you won't find "I remember when I was THE guy" with tens of thousands doing the same thing. It's just the way it works guys. More of something just equals more problems. Another comparision would be the mainstream music vs the undergound scene...no explaination needed there.
You dream game will come from individuals, not industries. Stop going to the strip club looking for a wife.
Sigh. For a very long time I was really, really interested in MMOs. I followed the development of each of it, and tried a lot of them. But among the DOZENS of MMO I play, I can only say of three of them, that I played them a long time. Everquest II, SWG and LOTRO. Those were the only MMOs I actually played years.
Now they are all more or less old. So maybe I too changed, but I can't help to think that MMOs changed and most important the community changed. If I recall these three MMOs and the dividing factor compared to the other MMOs, in EQ2, SWG and LOTRO I found an active community. (Lotro speaking of the first 2 years here.)
<Snip>
I'm the same I've grown jaded as well I'm playing GW2 right now but I'm finding I'm having more fun online with games like LoL, minecraft & TL2 my brother set up a tekkit server and started host TL2 games and I've just haven't been back to GW2 for nearly 2 weeks and I like GW2
To this day I still swear SWG Pre-NGE was my best MMO experience, yeah WoW Vanilla & TBC and even GW2 were/are good times, but I find myself turning more away from MMO's in favor for SP's online/multi player modes, I'm even starting to look at online RTS's I feel the MMO genre has stagnated and gone in another direction I just don't like.
Things are not made to last anymore. I have a friend who has had the same optical mouse for atleast 5-6 years and in that time I've gone through 5 of them (its worth noting he abuses his mouse more than me mine). My parents also have a microwave oven close to 25 years old (!!) and it works like a charm. Today's ovens... they basically just rot in the shelf even if you don't use them.
But this is OT.
To bring it back around, games are no longer built to last, either.
I knew someone was going to grasp on to that; It was somewhat of a low hanging fruit afterall. The old games had grind and timesinks, much more than today's games. By and large, players no longer tolerate the same amount of wasting time and stretched content anymore. They identify such features fairly quickly. They've also become very effective in finding and exploiting vulnerable mechanics.
As a guy who played muds extensively in the olde days, i dont see much difference in player capabilities and effectiveness.
What has changed is the perception of the community and devs, when in the past they would just shrug at things like people playing 36 hours straight and being stronger (which i never was ), they are now out and about to destroy any possibility of it with a nearly religious devotion.
That has changed, thus we cannot have nice things.
I feel the MMO genre has stagnated and gone in another direction I just don't like.
You and me both. Bring back the magic, bring back the adventure!
Basically this. It is not because new mmorpg's are bad games, they do ok what they are build to. Just I don't like what KIND of game they are. Direction mmprpg's went is just not interesting.
I feel the same way op. I've played mmorpgs since 2002 (started with Everquest) and its getting to the point where I try to force myself to play but I end up hanging out in a safe area and alt-tabbing out then messing around elsewhere.
I do think the key element that is missing is a sense of community. In Everquest you would form a group then grind away for possibly hours and maybe make some new friends. These days its all about rushing to each quest hub without interacting with other players because you've got to kill those mobs to get your quest updates done so you can rush off and repeat the whole process.
Then there is raiding...kill mobs in the starter raid instance so you can gear up so you can kill mobs in the next tier of raid instances so you can gear up...etc. till the next xpac and repeat the whole process again.
Which leads to PvP: people rolling the fotm easy mode class to kill everyone / outgearing other players / outnumbering other players / h4x / doing whatever it takes to win all while frapsing the whole time to show everyone how uber you are (don't forget to edit out every time you die and add metal music!).
Originally posted by Arakazi Well, MMOS are more narrowly focused on gameplay rather than the community aspects. Althought the trumpet the community but things like dungeon finder and dynamic grouping etc. is primarly there to improve a players gameplay experience rather than anything social. Although I can understand your furstration I feel that any online interaction will always be a shallow experience in comparison to something as simple as sitting in a cafe with a friend during your lunch break.
Your not kidding the term NARROW is an understatement.
Following linear quests around with awful highlited hues around everything makes for a really dumbed down,ugly gaming experience.Add in question marks over everything and more than generous xp and it adds up to meaningless gaming.
EVERY single game treats early levels like instant gratification,they never last long eonugh to become useful for anything.Got some cool level 3 gear,oh sorry it is already outdated 15 minutes later because you are now level 8-10.Want to learn your skills,no need ,already replaced by better skills 10 minutes later.
Want immersion,no need,just follow the question marks over the npc heads,no need to even bother reading the chat,just follow the markers/arrows.
Wan t to learn the game world and the NPC's?No need it is just a speeding train to end level so you can pvp.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Comments
Yes, you caught me, I am going to slip out and give DF:UW a try, but I won't be cancelling my EVE subs in the meantime.
Not sure I'm cut out for the more challenging experience of DF, but I'm willing to give it a shot.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Another way of putting it would be: MMOs 8 years ago were bad games... today they are better. And even then I preferred playing PnP games for the "world effect".
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
couldn't be more off the mark. If games 8 years ago were so bad why does SWG have a almost Cult following even after it shut down. Or WoW? with (according to them)over 10mil in subs? EQI or EQII? Not sure where you were 8 years ago but I was playing with alot more people in mmos then I can say for most current mmo's. F2P ones aside that are flooded with tight A$$es that cry about even the option of a monthly sub. Sure we had fewer options but they were better options and I'm not alone in that idea.
8+ years ago MMOs were very much a niche. Now they rival SP games in sales. I rest my case.
Even Reliant Robin has a fan club and dedicated following but still that doesn't make it a good car.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I haven't played an MMO in maybe a year or more myself. Still keeping my eye's open in case something interesting comes along and there are a few smaller/indie projects on the horizon that I'm looking at. Might give PS2 a whirl when it comes out of beta but that's more of a MMOFPS.
I find that even alot of the single player games coming out today are pretty, meh. Skyrim was one big exception. I find myself doing alot of PBEM Turn Based Strategy Games (the guys over at Matrix Games sell alot of the stuff I like) and trying to get more into the virtual tabletop PnP stuff.
Every once in awhile a good single player game will come out that evinces some of the quality of the older classic games. For example I lost about 20 hours last weekend playing Fallen Enchantress....which is a real homage to the old masters of magic/ Heroes of Might & Magic style games....and one of the best PC games I've seen come out in a long time.
As far as MMO's, I've tried a beta here and there but haven't actualy PLAYED one since I quit LOTRO over a year ago. Right now I'm just in wait and see mode.
Well if you ever want to play rift, come to faeblight. I played swg for its duration and tried to get into many mmo both during nge and after they shut it down last year. Faeblight feels like a good mmo home. Hope to see you there
I'm not sure How this rebuttle even has bearing on the 1st quote but ok what ever floats your boat
Disagree, they might have been SIMPLER games or had fewer features doesn't make them WORSE games.
Case in point, I had a buddy back in college with a '65 Buick. Thing was over 20 years old and had over 500K miles on it. No matter what abuse was dished out it kept running like a race horse. A couple years back my boss (at the time) bought himself one of those fancy new hybrids, had all the bells and whistles on it. That thing was in the shop every 3 months and nearly killed him when the CPU freaked out and decided to automaticaly accelerate the car on it's own. The '65 Buick was BY FAR the better care even though it didn't have an air-conditioned glove box or a camera for backing up.
Well, I suppose I"m less interested in mmo's but I was more interested in them as a mixture of morrowind and neverwinter nights which is what I thought they were and which they are not.
I've enjoyed myself in several mmo's and I think I'll still play them from time to time but after Lineage 2 I've yet to find a game that captured me in the same way.
Of course, the obvious remark would be "that was your first mmo and first mmo love" but the more I think on it the more I realize that isn't completely it.
The game was a brutal world that brought people together and it was a rather large world where you had to be dedicated. There was a bit of exploration and of course there was castle ownership, alliances, a pride in who you were, etc.
The other obvious remark is "well, lineage 2 is still there, go play it". Thing is I always hated the brutal economy. Even now, with a better economy it still feels like i have to spend more time making money than I want.
I've been playing a lot of skyrim, been enjoying Glactic Civilizations II, and bought disonored and x-com.
I still play a bit of Tera, Aion and Vanguard but I don't spend near enough time in them as the single player games.
Well, we'll see how archage fairs. I think I'll always buy them and play them but I have always preferred single player games as they are always more interesting.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
It's sad to say, but the one game that comes closest to what I want is Sims 3. Unfortunately, it also bores me to death after I've played through each expansion once or twice. So, using Sims 3 as a paradigm (model or baseline) these are my pros and cons. [I'm bringing this into the conversation only as an attempt to quantify what I want in an MMORPG.]
PROS
Things are not made to last anymore. I have a friend who has had the same optical mouse for atleast 5-6 years and in that time I've gone through 5 of them (its worth noting he abuses his mouse more than me mine). My parents also have a microwave oven close to 25 years old (!!) and it works like a charm. Today's ovens... they basically just rot in the shelf even if you don't use them.
But this is OT.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Here's one that might be interesting.
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
You see when I came to MMOs, I had a Pen and Paper background. Not so much D&D, more the German "The Dark Eye", which is WAY less combat oriented and more story-driven. You can have an entire evening with 1-2 fights in some adventures. In the Dark Eye P&P you essentially play a fantasy story. Some classes can't even fight. That was and remains what I am seeking in a TRUE MMO which maybe someday comes. It may be on a greater scale.
THAT is also why I put so much emphasis all the time on SWG-entertainers and the other non combat "classes" of SWG like Creature Handler asf.
I see the ideal MMORPG as a sort of Pen and Paper-story driven world setting. You get a sort of overall mission, not so strictly a quest. In The Dark Eye you do not get XP for kills, as in D&D, you get XP at the end of the story, either all the same, or some extra XP for how well you played your role or contributed to the success. That may be how well you sneaked and got intel, or how well you persuaded someone, or how well you bartered or anything that is within your powers. That MAY be fighting, but The Dark Eye has many classes which hardly can do any combat. I would want such a MMO have a holistic approach.
First, 80% of all you do requires a party, that remains together for a prolongued time. See EQ2 in the early times. It would be a story that evolves slowly, could be made into smaller and longer adventures or missions, but they all have some line to make sense. It would be more "missions", split it quests and open world events equally. Always related to you and your party. And in several cases making a permanent change in the world, which I only see possible via phasing. It would not be such an "open" world for all the same as we are used to, but not a totally instanced world like DDO quests. Despite the issues, I see phasing so far as the best compromise between meaningful impact and open world.
It would not be so much an individual story as in SWTOR, but the story of your group. Sure, that would limit your playtime to times when they all have time, but why not? Better a few hours a week REALLY meaningful experiences, than 8 hours a day mindless grind.
Sure, these are just basic, rough ideas. But THAT was and is what I would seek in a MMORPG, an online transition of story driven Pen and Paper games, NOT entirely combat-centered and team-based missions inside of an open massive world. Yeah, I guess finding the Holy Grail is easy compared to that, heh. But I seriously think the current line of MMOs is WAY too much thinking inside the box, inside given paradigms of what a MMO is supposed to be like. And I am simply tired of this stone-age idea.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I knew someone was going to grasp on to that; It was somewhat of a low hanging fruit afterall. The old games had grind and timesinks, much more than today's games. By and large, players no longer tolerate the same amount of wasting time and stretched content anymore. They identify such features fairly quickly. They've also become very effective in finding and exploiting vulnerable mechanics.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Stone him.
There are games that you guys want out there...you just aren't supporting them because they aren't AAA titles...and never will be. The MMO's you want have always been made by a few coders who put their heart and soul into the making their visions. They didn't need much, not even a lot of people, but a few supporters. Instead, now in days, you won't even give indys the time of day because they don't have supporting them, and the indies fall by the 'waste' side...
It's just like anything else in this world. The financially stable "Pimp My Crib" fast stores bring in millions of people with no individuality, while our table top gaming homes were housed in old hole-in-the-walls barely making ends meet, but there was a family bond there where all indivuduals had respect. The mainstream stays waway from these places because they simply have no clue. No matter how many proffessions a game has, you won't find "I remember when I was THE guy" with tens of thousands doing the same thing. It's just the way it works guys. More of something just equals more problems. Another comparision would be the mainstream music vs the undergound scene...no explaination needed there.
You dream game will come from individuals, not industries. Stop going to the strip club looking for a wife.
What we need is another war!
I'm the same I've grown jaded as well I'm playing GW2 right now but I'm finding I'm having more fun online with games like LoL, minecraft & TL2 my brother set up a tekkit server and started host TL2 games and I've just haven't been back to GW2 for nearly 2 weeks and I like GW2
To this day I still swear SWG Pre-NGE was my best MMO experience, yeah WoW Vanilla & TBC and even GW2 were/are good times, but I find myself turning more away from MMO's in favor for SP's online/multi player modes, I'm even starting to look at online RTS's I feel the MMO genre has stagnated and gone in another direction I just don't like.
You and me both. Bring back the magic, bring back the adventure!
My YouTube MMO PvP Channel
As a guy who played muds extensively in the olde days, i dont see much difference in player capabilities and effectiveness.
What has changed is the perception of the community and devs, when in the past they would just shrug at things like people playing 36 hours straight and being stronger (which i never was
), they are now out and about to destroy any possibility of it with a nearly religious devotion.
That has changed, thus we cannot have nice things.
Flame on!
Basically this. It is not because new mmorpg's are bad games, they do ok what they are build to. Just I don't like what KIND of game they are. Direction mmprpg's went is just not interesting.
I feel the same way op. I've played mmorpgs since 2002 (started with Everquest) and its getting to the point where I try to force myself to play but I end up hanging out in a safe area and alt-tabbing out then messing around elsewhere.
I do think the key element that is missing is a sense of community. In Everquest you would form a group then grind away for possibly hours and maybe make some new friends. These days its all about rushing to each quest hub without interacting with other players because you've got to kill those mobs to get your quest updates done so you can rush off and repeat the whole process.
Then there is raiding...kill mobs in the starter raid instance so you can gear up so you can kill mobs in the next tier of raid instances so you can gear up...etc. till the next xpac and repeat the whole process again.
Which leads to PvP: people rolling the fotm easy mode class to kill everyone / outgearing other players / outnumbering other players / h4x / doing whatever it takes to win all while frapsing the whole time to show everyone how uber you are (don't forget to edit out every time you die and add metal music!).
TL;DR: I'm ready for something new.
Played: EQ, EQ2, Vanguard, WAR, WoW, LoTRO, CoX, CO, GW2, FFXIV: ARR, AoC, Rift, TSW, SWTOR, TERA, BnS, ESO
Your not kidding the term NARROW is an understatement.
Following linear quests around with awful highlited hues around everything makes for a really dumbed down,ugly gaming experience.Add in question marks over everything and more than generous xp and it adds up to meaningless gaming.
EVERY single game treats early levels like instant gratification,they never last long eonugh to become useful for anything.Got some cool level 3 gear,oh sorry it is already outdated 15 minutes later because you are now level 8-10.Want to learn your skills,no need ,already replaced by better skills 10 minutes later.
Want immersion,no need,just follow the question marks over the npc heads,no need to even bother reading the chat,just follow the markers/arrows.
Wan t to learn the game world and the NPC's?No need it is just a speeding train to end level so you can pvp.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.