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Originally posted by CalmOceans
-there is no good chat system in place
-there is no good chat system in place
Why are we so unimaginative about in-game communications? Are we really tethered to conventional chat systems? Frankly, having to stop what I'm doing and read or type something into a chatbox is annoying and certainly detracts from immersiveness.
Why can't I select another player, who's within a realistic distance from me, and speak audibly to him or her? Most of us own microphones, so that shouldn't be an issue. When grouped, we'd all be able to communicate audibly.
Wouldn't this add to a sense of community? It would certainly quiet the legion of smart asses that seem to suck up so much bandwidth on convention chat systems.
"Worldwide" communications would be done via in-game newspapers.
Maybe I'm in la la land technologically, but I still think we should be thinking outside the box.
Originally posted by Simphanatic Originally posted by CalmOceans
-there is no good chat system in place
Second Life has that ability... You enter an area and you hear people talking to each other, via mic. Real voices.
Want a nice understanding of life? Try Spirit Science: "The Human History"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8NNHmV3QPw&feature=plcpRecognize the voice? Yep sounds like Penny Arcade's Extra Credits.
Originally posted by asmkm22 Eve also has really uncompelling gameplay for a lot of people, in terms of "combat," and exploration only seems to be rewarding to a very particular kind of person. For everyone else, it's just one starfield after another, with different color suns.
To each his own then. My experience with EVE has been the complete opposite. And as for exploraton, I think EVE has the best possible mechanic for that type of gameplay, by far.
They can adjust a game all day, but they can't help the issue between the keyboard and the chair.Played: UO, DAoC, AC, WoW, EVE, TR, WAR, Aion, Rift, SWTOR, GW2, TSW, ESO, Elite:DPlay EVE for free for 21 days
Originally posted by Karteli Second Life has that ability... You enter an area and you hear people talking, via mic. Real voices.
Ick. I just puked a little in my mouth. But thank you for pointing out that it's technologically feasible.
Originally posted by Simphanatic Originally posted by Karteli Second Life has that ability... You enter an area and you hear people talking, via mic. Real voices.
Yup it is.
It's not that anyone is unimaginative though for not implementing automatic mic voice. I'd say all the games coming out are designed to be "kid friendly", which is not what MMORPG's used to be.
MMORPG's curled their tails up and went that way, not because those games are better, but because there is more money to be found. F2P conversions might make this worse.
Originally posted by Simphanatic
type something into a chatbox is annoying and certainly detracts from immersiveness. Why can't I select another player, who's within a realistic distance from me, and speak audibly to him or her? Most of us own microphones, so that shouldn't be an issue. When grouped, we'd all be able to communicate audibly.
An elf sounding like a burly guy through the mic is not immersive for me, nor is a dog barking through the mic, or an orge with a little kid's voice. Or that one guy we all know who won't shut off his music in the background.
Mics totally kill immersion for me.
I have never found typing to be annoying, unless the game is too fast.
Actually I should have added that on that list, a fast paced game detracts from the community.
I believe part of the reason Everquest had one of the best communities, if not the best, of any MMO to date, is likely it's slow-paced gameplay which allowed for chat sessions.
Originally posted by CalmOceans An elf sounding like a burly guy through the mic is not immersive for me, nor is a dog barking through the mic. Mics totally kill immersion for me. I have never found typing to be annoying, unless the game is too fast. Actually I should have added that on that list, a fast paced game detracts from the community. I believe part of the reason Everquest had one of the best communities, if not the best, of any MMO to date, is likely it's slow-paced gameplay which allowed for chat sessions.
Good point! And then there's that other thread about all the guys who play females. :P
I've nothing wrong with pace of game, PvP and grouped operations probably should be fast-paced, but the game world I'm craving will NOT focus exclusively on combat. There MUST be lots of things to do besides, and I don't mean just a cheesy, half-assed crafting system.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by Karteli We can only feel bad for The Elder Scrolls Online, which hinted that they would follow GW2. Oops? And before anyone jumps on me, there will be that "been there, done that" effect to any game. Frankly, I've seen GW2, and I'm not going back to that game style, it's boring, and anti-MMORPG.
I'm just curious if that phrase was intentional or not, lol? Cause I find it funny that I see that title under so many level 80's in GW2 ...
Originally posted by Magiknight Originally posted by Threatlevel0 Originally posted by Simphanatic The OP mirrors my sentiment EXACTLY. The problem as I see it is that so many MMOs are little more than websites providing us with varying carrot and stick quests, where PvP and economy are little more than second thoughts. SWTOR wasn't a bad game, when compared to anything else on the market, it just didn't deliver on the promise of an open world that would give us more than other similar games. Even though I've since tried a few other MMOs, SWTOR really was a nail in the coffin insofar as my long-term MMO participation is concerned. In short, I want a gaming world that can be a destination in and of itself. I want to live in that world, not merely do a series of stale, constrained quests. Before I ever invest my time and money in another MMO, it absolutely must meet these criteria: Have a dynamic, player-influenced, open environment Possess a fluid, impactful economy that is not at all affected by infusion of real-world money Provide meaningful player professions intrinsic to the economy Furnish recreational venues that players can engage in when not in combat or working Give players the opportunity to construct residences Have non artifical, open PvP -- the world should be a risky place There must be a player-regulated system for penalizing gankers, scammers, and other evil doers Quests/missions are ok, but should not be a central focus of the game world (I'd prefer to see them as a starting point to game play -- a world introduction -- certainly not a destination) Community is not a factor because if the foregoing are executed properly community will follow Unless I see all these in an MMO I'm not bothering with it. I am just fine reading books; watching movies; or, gawd forbid, playing the latest Sims 3 expansion.
That should be the list for any MMORPG Manifesto in my opinion.
I'm still appalled that all the new 'mainstream' MMO's are almost solely focused on story, personal stories, cinematics, voice-overs, or perhaps I should just call it the "Fourth Pillar" now. If I want a story I to am just fine reading my books or watching shows. If I wanted to become immersed into an RPG world that is what I thought MMORPG's would be there for.
Being immersed in an RPG world and having a good story are not exclusive. However, 95% of the games that have attempted to create stories have made game worlds that are not immersive.
I agree. I never said they were. I said, "MMO's are almost solely focused on," to highlight their importance on story filled with voice-over or cutscenes over making an immersive world.
Any MMO though with personal stories that take players constantly out of the MMO world into their own instances though make no sense to me in MMO design.
Originally posted by Elikal Sigh. For a very long time I was really, really interested in MMOs. I followed the development of each of it, and tried a lot of them. But among the DOZENS of MMO I play, I can only say of three of them, that I played them a long time. Everquest II, SWG and LOTRO. Those were the only MMOs I actually played years. Now they are all more or less old. So maybe I too changed, but I can't help to think that MMOs changed and most important the community changed. If I recall these three MMOs and the dividing factor compared to the other MMOs, in EQ2, SWG and LOTRO I found an active community. (Lotro speaking of the first 2 years here.) Ever since then, I never have been in a MMO more than a couple of months, 3-4 at best. And that is not satisfactory. Not at all. All these short-term MMOs I more or less played like a single player game, only that the single player aspect of a MMO is MUCH worse than a real single player game. Overall, I see that as a game itself, MMOs are relatively bad games. All of them. For some reasons MMOs never really unfolded their true potential, and I mean NONE of it. All of them are/were more or less crappy, broken, limited and half-baked; only sometimes the setting, sometimes the community, sometimes a few features kept me for a while. Like the 4 months I played my two mains in SWTOR to max, going through 2 story arcs. Or my 3 months in WAR for the RVR. But overall... MMOs are just a very basic and mediocre form of games, compared how far the other types of computer games evolved. They are also all of them singleminded, like focussed on one or two strengths and totally neglecting the other. Now I sure will come here regularly, follow the ongoings, but after the GW2 letdown (entirely personally speaking!), that after 1-2 months I already feel I have seen enough of it, I see that my time where I was a vivid MMO gamer simply comes to an end, and I feel my aspirations are again more wanting good single player games. Games with a real start, middle and end; games with a real purpose and structure. RPGs, strategy games, adventures, maybe some action games too. I feel I enjoy them nowadays so much more. And it's sad. But I simply cannot find a real community and I just can not join a Guild anymore! I was in many guilds, those of the three MMOs mentioned had the best, but the guilds today... I don't feel I fit into them anymore. They have either too eager powerplayers, too young people with a different focus on life, or they are mere chat channels where nobody ACTUALLY does something together. And I simply have no will to make guild hopping, chosing a new guild every 2 weeks. It's a pity. I miss the experience I had in the years I played SWG and EQ2 especially. But ever since, I never found that again. And each new MMO just let me down more. SWTOR was a really bad experience which left me scarred and GW2... sorry but for ME at least it is so limited and so quick to bore me. I do not blame the game, I know after SO MANY flops and halfassed MMOs I just can't take it anymore. And as I said, the days where MMO gamers were a small, tight knit community are just gone forever. Now it's a mass market for millions, and that just doesn't work for me. You ain't gonna get rid of me here, but I kinda had to make a statement for myself here.
I can relate to this, it even is effecting my single player games.
The things that bought me into this hobby all that time ago are no longer fashionable and so the games are steadily getting less and less fulfilling to me. I mean, some of the newer titles still appeal, I like the look of Dishonoured, but in the main I buy all my stuff from indie devs on Steam (because they seem to make the older style of games a lot of the time, like Legend of Grimrock and others) and GoG, oh and from notable devs/ publishers like Telltale Games and Paradox. I am also playing more and more PnP games online with stuff like the Roll20 virtual tabletop.... just getting back to what hooked me in originally, before I was seduced with fancy gfx and industry buzzwords, I guess. Rediscovering what I loved in the first place.
I am not done with PC gaming, I think I have just accepted that the current trendy thinking in game design in the main isn't what I am looking for.
I need my games I think to be... nerdier then then modern mass market allows.
nethervoid - Est. '97[UO|EQ|SB|SWG|PS|HZ|EVE|NWN|WoW|VG|DF|SWTOR]13k subs YouTube Gaming channel
Originally posted by Boardwalker Originally posted by asmkm22 Eve also has really uncompelling gameplay for a lot of people, in terms of "combat," and exploration only seems to be rewarding to a very particular kind of person. For everyone else, it's just one starfield after another, with different color suns.
My EVE experiences have been the same as Boardwalker. True, the built-in storylines are rather meh in quality, and the combat isn't twitch-based...but the player-made storylines and the profound amount of tactics involved in the combat (at least in PvP) is completely unlike anything I've ever seen or even heard of. And that's not even including the almost ridiculously realistic economy. There have been several occasions where I did something in Eve or went through a particular event, and afterwards I literally said to myself "Did I really just do that in a videogame?". Being a critical cargo hauler for a previous corp in a wormhole and some specific hijinx in Nullsec are among my fondest memories in my entire gaming career.
As for the OPs statement...yeah, pretty much all other MMOs currently out are same old, same old (or even worse, same mechanics but easier), and like you I've also tried dozens. WoW was my first main one in fact. There are only a handful of pending MMOs that I am looking forward to: World of Darkness, Darkfall:Unholy Wars and The Repopulation. World of Darkness is at the top of my list in anticipation; CCP is the only company that has proved in my eyes that they know what the hell they are doing when it comes to making a good MMO.
Where's the any key?
Originally posted by CalmOceansAn elf sounding like a burly guy through the mic is not immersive for me, nor is a dog barking through the mic, or an orge with a little kid's voice. Or that one guy we all know who won't shut off his music in the background.Mics totally kill immersion for me.I have never found typing to be annoying, unless the game is too fast.Actually I should have added that on that list, a fast paced game detracts from the community.I believe part of the reason Everquest had one of the best communities, if not the best, of any MMO to date, is likely it's slow-paced gameplay which allowed for chat sessions.
Ding ding ding. This. +1 Bravo!
Luckily, i don't need you to like me to enjoy video games. -nariusseldon.In F2P I think it's more a case of the game's trying to play the player's. -laserit
Tried eve and played it about a year in 2003/2004. Loved many elements of the game. Quit because:
1. You never truly control your ship; you, instead, right click on stuff and select 'go here.'
2. Death penalty is stupidly bad. You can invest all your money in a good ship or invest half your money in a weaker (but insured) ship. I don't like being forced to spend only half my coin.
3. Confusing equipment. Very small ships can take out considerably bigger ships. To me, that's like a level 5 character ganking a level 25 character. You think "what just happened."
4. Profanity. Heinous, juvenile, everpresent profanity. Never experienced anything even remotely like it in any online game.
5. Atrocious lag when other players are nearby.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Originally posted by LydarSynn MMOs haven't changed- thats the real problem. I enjoyed MMOs when I first started playing until I realized they are all giant hamster wheels- themeparks in particular. I won't play any themepark MMO ever again. MMOs need to go the way of the War Z IMO. Add some realism elements (eating, drinking), maybe political stuff for fantasy or medevel MMOs, make death meaningful- in short do something different. There are plenty of MMOs where you are supposed to be some sort of hero (along with everyone else) and every toon has ridiculous powers. How about a game where the players actually have to struggle to achieve something- that would be different. Right now, the only games that even remotely have the things I am looking for are the War Z, the Dead Linger (probably doesn't qualify as an MMO) and Wizardry Online. I think any innovation that comes along will most likely come from smaller development teams.
You just proved that they HAVE changed. And that's the issue for me. You used to have to eat and drink, and things were actually challenging. The things you brought up as ideas WERE in MMOs. People complained and complained, and, wanting to continue to make money, developers started acting upon those complaints until we have the watered-down crap we have today, where you don't have to put much effort in to get your quick satisfaction.
So now, if someone DID come out with a game that is like the previous generation of MMOs, many people (mostly being lazy with little attention span) wouldn't stick around, and those who enjoyed the challenge would be left with no one to play with.
THE REPOPULATIONPATHFINDERSTAR CITIZENSHROUD OF THE AVATAREVERQUEST NEXT
Same here. I'm totally uninterested and bored by the current crop of themepark MMOs.
I'm hoping DF:UW will deliver a more exciting experience than all these instanced-to-death lobby MMOs we have these days.
Originally posted by Yamota OP you are not losing interest in MMO's, you are losing interest in ThemePark MMO's. So join the club, there are lots of us who want a deeper experience but for the last few years all the triple A MMO's have been created for children with low attention span. Only big budget MMO I see which is not like that is ArcheAge and that is still years from coming to the west so maybe take a break from MMO's and come back when it has matured a bit.
Many posters on this forum (not only the OP) cannot find what they look for in the current crop of AAA themeparks from the big publishers - but they buy every single one of those. Small wonder that the publishers rub their hands, great, another million boxes sold.
And, to the OP, if you don't share the mass market demand for easy, shallow, flashy action games, well, then don't buy mass market games. Who knows, maybe indies and sandboxes wouldn't be so underfinanced, understuffed and badly managed if more people would actually buy them.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
Originally posted by ste2000 MMOs 8 years ago were worlds..................today MMOs are just games.
Short, but succinct, I like it. Sums up how I feel about the situation pretty well.
Decided to retreat back to EVE and stay there until something truly interesting comes out.
Might be there a long time.
"Winning" at EVE Online since May, 2007!
In my day MMORPG's were so hard we fought our way through dungeons in the snow, uphill both ways.
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™ "This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Originally posted by Kyleran Originally posted by ste2000 MMOs 8 years ago were worlds..................today MMOs are just games.
I have to agree here as well. Don't get me wrong, I like GW2 but at the end of the day it's just a Massive Multiplayer Online Game. I started with UO which was more of a virtual world than simply a game. We don't get to see many virtual worlds anymore.