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Why is no one talking about this?

DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

Why is no one discussing Project Gorgon? 

Unlike most of the Kickstarter MMOs, this one seems to be backed by a guy who actually knows his stuff and has a clear executable vision. 

Public dungeon crawling in EQ and AC were some of my favorite things to do. I met most of my online friends that way. 

Check it out. 

 

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1045484633/project-gorgon-an-indie-mmo-by-industry-veterans

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Comments

  • ZefireZefire lol, CAPosts: 676Member
    you are kidding right?
  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    it might be legit.. but.. i wouldnt bet money on it image
  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Zefire
    you are kidding right?

    Why would I be kidding? If you check out his blog he talks extensively about MMO design, he really knows his stuff. He even has a whole post about the pros and cons of a harsh death penalty. He's doing some really interesting things. 

    Are there still people out there that don't believe that Kickstarter is legit? Like those people who were afraid to use credit cards online?

  • QuirhidQuirhid TamperePosts: 5,969Member Common

    image

    You made me click the link. I hate you.

    I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Quirhid

    image

    You made me click the link. I hate you.

    Why? Is there some stigma against this project I'm unaware of? 

    Is it the new bandwagon game to hate on, like Darkfall?

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Why would I be kidding? If you check out his blog he talks extensively about MMO design, he really knows his stuff.

    MMO are created by people who know programming, physics, art design, sound and advertising.

    I think the reason almost all of these "MMO" fail is because there is more to making an MMO than knowing MMO.

    Everyone on this forum here knows MMO, but very few have the technical skills to actually make one.

     

    20 technically skilled people where only one of them knows what an MMO is could make an amazing MMO.

    But 20 people who know MMO and only 1 person who is technically skilled would fail miserably.

     

    All those projects where a bunch of people who "like MMO" come together and try to make one tend to fail miserably, because playing MMO doesn't make you technically skilled. You can know tons about baseball, but that doesn't mean you're a good baseball player does it.

  • Pumuckl71Pumuckl71 istanbulPosts: 121Member

    "Unlike most of the Kickstarter MMOs, this one seems to be backed by a guy who actually knows his stuff and has a clear executable vision."

     

    so most kickstarter mmos  are backed by tools and this guy is the mmo-jesus ? Your  post  has a touch of advetising

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon

    If you’re on fire and near a lake, jump in the lake to put the fire out!

    This part really is something I wondered about in most games, it should be easy to implement... And why doesnt the weather affect spells for that matter? One would think that fire and electrical spells would work better a warm sunny summer day than a rainy autumn day.

    But frankly do I think we need a lot more info before investing in this or getting hyped about it. The information seemed a bit short. *It might be an interesting game but it is hard to tell right now.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Why would I be kidding? If you check out his blog he talks extensively about MMO design, he really knows his stuff.

    MMO are created by people who know programming, physics, art design, sound and advertising.

    I think the reason almost all of these "MMO" fail is because there is more to making an MMO than knowing MMO.

    Everyone on this forum here knows MMO, but very few have the technical skills to actually make one.

     

    20 technically skilled people where only one of them knows what an MMO is could make an amazing MMO.

    But 20 people who know MMO and only 1 person who is technically skilled would fail miserably.

     

    All those projects where a bunch of people who "like MMO" come together and try to make one tend to fail miserably, because playing MMO doesn't make you technically skilled. You can know tons about baseball, but that doesn't mean you're a good baseball player does it.

    Uhh.... this MMO already has a working engine, and the person leading the team has worked on at least 3 other MMOs. Did you not see the veteran bit?

     

    And your anology is pretty weak. Knowing a lot about baseball theory would make someone a pretty great baseball coach, which is more analagous to being a developer. 

  • PhryPhry HampshirePosts: 6,289Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Why would I be kidding? If you check out his blog he talks extensively about MMO design, he really knows his stuff.

    MMO are created by people who know programming, physics, art design, sound and advertising.

    I think the reason almost all of these "MMO" fail is because there is more to making an MMO than knowing MMO.

    Everyone on this forum here knows MMO, but very few have the technical skills to actually make one.

     

    20 technically skilled people where only one of them knows what an MMO is could make an amazing MMO.

    But 20 people who know MMO and only 1 person who is technically skilled would fail miserably.

     

    All those projects where a bunch of people who "like MMO" come together and try to make one tend to fail miserably, because playing MMO doesn't make you technically skilled. You can know tons about baseball, but that doesn't mean you're a good baseball player does it.

    image

    I think most of the people on this forum know a 'thing or two' about MMO's .. we certainly argue about them enough.. but if we all got together to make an MMO..   ... ... image

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Pumuckl71

    "Unlike most of the Kickstarter MMOs, this one seems to be backed by a guy who actually knows his stuff and has a clear executable vision."

     

    so most kickstarter mmos  are backed by tools and this guy is the mmo-jesus ? Your  post  has a touch of advetising

    Embers of Caerus shoots for the moon and promises everything, but they have no veterans on board, and nothing to back up the fact that they understand what they have to do. 

     

    The opposite is true for this. It has a very clear and manageable goal, and its by someone who is knowledgable about the subject. 

     

    You can call it advertising if you like, I'd call it facts. 

    But check my post history if you think I'm advertising. I just like oldschool MMOs. 

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Loke666

    If you’re on fire and near a lake, jump in the lake to put the fire out!

    This part really is something I wondered about in most games, it should be easy to implement... And why doesnt the weather affect spells for that matter? One would think that fire and electrical spells would work better a warm sunny summer day than a rainy autumn day.

    But frankly do I think we need a lot more info before investing in this or getting hyped about it. The information seemed a bit short. *It might be an interesting game but it is hard to tell right now.

    I don't know how much extra info is on his blog, I just checked his post on death penalties, but I'm willing to bet there's quite a bit more information, not to mention the videos hes already done under "updates". 

  • fonoifonoi Cape TownPosts: 56Member
    This guy does know his stuff, he worked on Asherons call 1 from 1999 to 2003 in posistions such as engineer, lead engineer, lead systems designer and producer.

    He also worked on AC2. For those reasons I'm willing to throw a few bucks his way and see what happens.

  • CalmOceansCalmOceans BergenPosts: 2,273Member
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Uhh.... this MMO already has a working engine, and the person leading the team has worked on at least 3 other MMOs. Did you not see the veteran bit?

    I have made a working engine too, it had phong lighting and cast shadows and it could read in textures and 3D models and display them.

    To go from that point to something successful takes really technically skilled people, there's a reason many MMO are using Crytek's Engine, because going from a basic engine to a full fledged engine that is competitive in 2012 takes incredibly skilled people.

    John Carmack said at QuakeCon that a game engine is more complicated that the software used to shoot rockets to the moon.

    You ask why does no one talk about this, well, to be frank, because it's nowhere near the standars of 2012 games.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Uhh.... this MMO already has a working engine, and the person leading the team has worked on at least 3 other MMOs. Did you not see the veteran bit?

    I have made a working engine too, it had phong lighting and cast shadows and it could read in textures and 3D models and display them.

    To go from that point to something successful takes really technically skilled people, there's a reason many MMO are using Crytek's Engine, because going from a basic engine to a full fledged engine that is competitive in 2012 takes incredibly skilled people.

    John Carmack said at QuakeCon that a game engine is more complicated that the software used to shoot rockets to the moon.

    You ask why does no one talk about this, well, to be frank, because it's nowhere near the standars of 2012 games.

    So a game that isn't even in its alpha state isn't near the standards of a 2012 game? Gee! No kidding! But thanks for not even reading the link, or else you'd know the guy is MORE than technically skilled. 

    And what exactly is "2012 standards" anyway? Boring, soulless WoW clones? 

    I'd rather have something close to 2001 standards, and it seems like this is the ticket. 

  • Loke666Loke666 MalmöPosts: 17,949Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by CalmOceans 

    MMO are created by people who know programming, physics, art design, sound and advertising.

    I think the reason almost all of these "MMO" fail is because there is more to making an MMO than knowing MMO.

    Everyone on this forum here knows MMO, but very few have the technical skills to actually make one.

    20 technically skilled people where only one of them knows what an MMO is could make an amazing MMO.

    But 20 people who know MMO and only 1 person who is technically skilled would fail miserably.

    All those projects where a bunch of people who "like MMO" come together and try to make one tend to fail miserably, because playing MMO doesn't make you technically skilled. You can knows tons about baseball, but that doesn't mean you're a good baseball player does it.

    It really depends, with a master programmer (like Strain or someone) you could still pull almost anything off. In fact I rather have a single master than 20 so-so.

    Not knowing MMOs on the other hand can actually be an advantage. Meridian 59 and UO were made by people who never played a MMO, they didnt even existed before M59 was released and both games still invented interesting and fun mechanics (M59s are still used today in a slightly different way).

    On the other hand might it also be a huge problem, like when a certain large company tried to turn their single player game experience into a MMO, just didnt work as intended since we MMOers needs social stuff.

    Minecraft and for that matter Meridian 59 have proven that a few people with the right mindset can create something new and fun. If you never played M59, it was the MMO that invented trinity combat and many other stuff you still see in most MMOs today, and it was made by a few friends with mainly one guys vision.

    But any MMO still need a really good programmer to be successful, and that is even more important since after Wows launch. If this game dont have that, we are talking about a new MO at best.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by fonoi
    This guy does know his stuff, he worked on Asherons call 1 from 1999 to 2003 in posistions such as engineer, lead engineer, lead systems designer and producer.

    He also worked on AC2. For those reasons I'm willing to throw a few bucks his way and see what happens.

     

    Exactly. 

    I'm shocked at how many people instantly jumped to insane conclusions without even reading what was linked. I guess some folks are just really in love with the WoW clone status quo. 

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by CalmOceans 

    MMO are created by people who know programming, physics, art design, sound and advertising.

    I think the reason almost all of these "MMO" fail is because there is more to making an MMO than knowing MMO.

    Everyone on this forum here knows MMO, but very few have the technical skills to actually make one.

    20 technically skilled people where only one of them knows what an MMO is could make an amazing MMO.

    But 20 people who know MMO and only 1 person who is technically skilled would fail miserably.

    All those projects where a bunch of people who "like MMO" come together and try to make one tend to fail miserably, because playing MMO doesn't make you technically skilled. You can knows tons about baseball, but that doesn't mean you're a good baseball player does it.

    It really depends, with a master programmer (like Strain or someone) you could still pull almost anything off. In fact I rather have a single master than 20 so-so.

    Not knowing MMOs on the other hand can actually be an advantage. Meridian 59 and UO were made by people who never played a MMO, they didnt even existed before M59 was released and both games still invented interesting and fun mechanics (M59s are still used today in a slightly different way).

    On the other hand might it also be a huge problem, like when a certain large company tried to turn their single player game experience into a MMO, just didnt work as intended since we MMOers needs social stuff.

    Minecraft and for that matter Meridian 59 have proven that a few people with the right mindset can create something new and fun. If you never played M59, it was the MMO that invented trinity combat and many other stuff you still see in most MMOs today, and it was made by a few friends with mainly one guys vision.

    But any MMO still need a really good programmer to be successful, and that is even more important since after Wows launch. If this game dont have that, we are talking about a new MO at best.

    Those early MMOs weren't perfect though. If you check his blog on death penalties, you see he weighs the benefits of old AND modern design. Something I think all devs should start doing, to find what works best between everything that's been attempted. GW2 did it with their PvP and questing system, and it seems to have worked well. 

  • AeolronAeolron Ottawa, ONPosts: 648Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Why would I be kidding? If you check out his blog he talks extensively about MMO design, he really knows his stuff.

    MMO are created by people who know programming, physics, art design, sound and advertising.

    I think the reason almost all of these "MMO" fail is because there is more to making an MMO than knowing MMO.

    Everyone on this forum here knows MMO, but very few have the technical skills to actually make one.

     

    20 technically skilled people where only one of them knows what an MMO is could make an amazing MMO.

    But 20 people who know MMO and only 1 person who is technically skilled would fail miserably.

     

    All those projects where a bunch of people who "like MMO" come together and try to make one tend to fail miserably, because playing MMO doesn't make you technically skilled. You can know tons about baseball, but that doesn't mean you're a good baseball player does it.

    While I agree with you that the technical aspects are important in making ANY Games, not just mmorpgs, however in order to create a good mmo you have to have one hell or either A: Good story and or B: Lore , because without those things we have empty shells of games that are sopposed to be about role play fantasy,so I am sure alot of folks will agree with me on this , if we just have the mechanics and technical aspects of a mmorpg , it will be fun however it will die down , a prime example of this is Tera , alot of fun but boring as hell because of those aspects. What we need a is MMO with all the best mechanics and best story/lore aspects you would see in rpgs, we also need to get away from the theme park side and get back into virtual worlds like EverQuest , and have harsh dealth penalties not quests that require grouping, because without those core aspects we don't have a mmo , we have just technical advanced voids that may seem full of content but are actualy missing it entirely.

    There are some mmorpgs out there that have very limited technical advances yet they prove to be holding attention well, why is that? Game play with good lore background.

  • AeolronAeolron Ottawa, ONPosts: 648Member
    Originally posted by CalmOceans
    Originally posted by DavisFlight

    Uhh.... this MMO already has a working engine, and the person leading the team has worked on at least 3 other MMOs. Did you not see the veteran bit?

    I have made a working engine too, it had phong lighting and cast shadows and it could read in textures and 3D models and display them.

    To go from that point to something successful takes really technically skilled people, there's a reason many MMO are using Crytek's Engine, because going from a basic engine to a full fledged engine that is competitive in 2012 takes incredibly skilled people.

    John Carmack said at QuakeCon that a game engine is more complicated that the software used to shoot rockets to the moon.

    You ask why does no one talk about this, well, to be frank, because it's nowhere near the standars of 2012 games.

    Well I would argue that fact LOL

    Because shooting rockets to the moon or launching satilites in space actualy requires ALOT of technical math and tons and tons of planing , because one just one miscalculation and there goes your 1-2 billion project ouch , I know because I work with people who write the code for the software and launch satilites just not rockets LOL but I assume it's the same , because the programs is very similar.

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Pumuckl71

    "Unlike most of the Kickstarter MMOs, this one seems to be backed by a guy who actually knows his stuff and has a clear executable vision."

     

    so most kickstarter mmos  are backed by tools and this guy is the mmo-jesus ? Your  post  has a touch of advetising

    Embers of Caerus shoots for the moon and promises everything, but they have no veterans on board, and nothing to back up the fact that they understand what they have to do. 

     

    The opposite is true for this. It has a very clear and manageable goal, and its by someone who is knowledgable about the subject. 

     

    You can call it advertising if you like, I'd call it facts. 

    But check my post history if you think I'm advertising. I just like oldschool MMOs. 

    Yeah.. and Embers of Caerus will fail as much.. at best Mortal Online success, if you want to call this one a success.

    And to call the Unity engine a worthy engine for a mmo is a joke.

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Pumuckl71

    "Unlike most of the Kickstarter MMOs, this one seems to be backed by a guy who actually knows his stuff and has a clear executable vision."

     

    so most kickstarter mmos  are backed by tools and this guy is the mmo-jesus ? Your  post  has a touch of advetising

    Embers of Caerus shoots for the moon and promises everything, but they have no veterans on board, and nothing to back up the fact that they understand what they have to do. 

     

    The opposite is true for this. It has a very clear and manageable goal, and its by someone who is knowledgable about the subject. 

     

    You can call it advertising if you like, I'd call it facts. 

    But check my post history if you think I'm advertising. I just like oldschool MMOs. 

    Yeah.. and Embers of Caerus will fail as much.. at best Mortal Online success, if you want to call this one a success.

    And to call the Unity engine a worthy engine for a mmo is a joke.

    Uhh, a TON of games use the Unity Engine. And if its an engine good enough for a guy who has engineered 3 different commercial MMOs already, I think it's good enough in general, no? 

    Or did you once again ignore his credentials? 

  • DavisFlightDavisFlight Talahasee, FLPosts: 2,556Member

    I guess there just aren't a lot of classic MMORPG fans awake this early in the morning. Less than I thought anyway! 

     

    Either that or no one actually bothered to read into the webpage :/ 

  • DOGMA1138DOGMA1138 none of your buidnessPosts: 476Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by Aeolron

    Originally posted by CalmOceans

    Originally posted by DavisFlight Uhh.... this MMO already has a working engine, and the person leading the team has worked on at least 3 other MMOs. Did you not see the veteran bit?
    I have made a working engine too, it had phong lighting and cast shadows and it could read in textures and 3D models and display them. To go from that point to something successful takes really technically skilled people, there's a reason many MMO are using Crytek's Engine, because going from a basic engine to a full fledged engine that is competitive in 2012 takes incredibly skilled people. John Carmack said at QuakeCon that a game engine is more complicated that the software used to shoot rockets to the moon. You ask why does no one talk about this, well, to be frank, because it's nowhere near the standars of 2012 games.
    Well I would argue that fact LOL Because shooting rockets to the moon or launching satellites in space actualy requires ALOT of technical math and tons and tons of planing , because one just one miscalculation and there goes your 1-2 billion project ouch , I know because I work with people who write the code for the software and launch satilites just not rockets LOL but I assume it's the same , because the programs is very similar.
    They didn't used computers to launch the Apollo missions they used pen and paper...

    The landing computer for the eagle module had less memory than your everyday calculator, so saying that a game engine is more complicated than what they've used for the moon landings its not much of an achievement, pong probably had more lines of code than what they've used. Heck back then they still used punch-cards to program computers...

    BTW neither lunching rockets to the moon, nor lunching satellites requires very complicated math, you only use Newtonian physics for that since you don't come any where near relativistic speeds.

     

     

  • ApraxisApraxis RegensburgPosts: 1,515Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Apraxis
    Originally posted by DavisFlight
    Originally posted by Pumuckl71

    "Unlike most of the Kickstarter MMOs, this one seems to be backed by a guy who actually knows his stuff and has a clear executable vision."

     

    so most kickstarter mmos  are backed by tools and this guy is the mmo-jesus ? Your  post  has a touch of advetising

    Embers of Caerus shoots for the moon and promises everything, but they have no veterans on board, and nothing to back up the fact that they understand what they have to do. 

     

    The opposite is true for this. It has a very clear and manageable goal, and its by someone who is knowledgable about the subject. 

     

    You can call it advertising if you like, I'd call it facts. 

    But check my post history if you think I'm advertising. I just like oldschool MMOs. 

    Yeah.. and Embers of Caerus will fail as much.. at best Mortal Online success, if you want to call this one a success.

    And to call the Unity engine a worthy engine for a mmo is a joke.

    Uhh, a TON of games use the Unity Engine. And if its an engine good enough for a guy who has engineered 3 different commercial MMOs already, I think it's good enough in general, no? 

    Or did you once again ignore his credentials? 

    Hmm.. Ok. If it will ever have some success you can then tell. And what mmo? You mean those free browser based mmos? Ok.. if you mean that scope of a mmo. Then.. yeah. But is such a game worth talking? No.

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