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Isn't this game to fast and ez?

13

Comments

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,258Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Perpetuum and darkfall released in last 4 years. Safe to say they are more horizontal progression than tsw, because they are sandboxes.

    Okay ;) Fair enough. 

     

    looking forward to DFUW btw.

  • bcbullybcbully Westland, MIPosts: 8,258Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Bully, well you can repeat the whole gear grind twice again If you want heal, tank and dps gear (with pvp gear being a mix of tank and either of the other two) - well more if you want hit based,pen based,crit based etc..

    Another flaw with tsw imo, as the gear dependancy in the game discourages experimentation with the skill wheel, you have to stay in a narrow set of builds that go with your gear.

    I can agree with this. It makes you need extra sets. I think it was intended though. Purely for adding longevity. I really don't see how you could get around this unless someone made an mmorpg that's completely flat. I'm not aware of one if there is. It would be an interesting concept though. Progression through abilities alone.

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by botrytis
    Originally posted by Randayn
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    The games I mentioned expanded horizontally (well except gw2 obviously, but that will expand horizontaly)

    Games like wow expand vertically - new raids with even more powerful loot, new levels, new pvp sets to grind tupperware boxes for.

    I guess its wait and see, but the gear differential between 10.0 and 10.4 in tsw and the fact you can only get 10.3 VIA grinding pvp tokens, lairs or dungeon tokens and can only get 10.4 purely by dungeons only suggests this is a vertical progression game. (e.g. in gw2 you can easily craft or outdoor pve a set that is as good as the dungeon and pvp sets stats wise,or any mixture of all 4)

    If a 10.5 set comes with this new York raid it is definetly a vertical progression game. As it willhave expanded vertically just like all the EQ,/ wow clones.

    vertical and horizontal progression refers to the game, not just the end-game.  I think any endgame will be vertical in some aspects.  Im talking about specific thing you can do in-game.  GW2's progression on all levels is vertical.  Their end-game is "non-exhistant"...not horizontal.

    You wan't to see true horizontal end-game look no further than Age Of Conan's expansion which didn't increase levels, just increased difficulty.

    You obviously didn't play GW1. The other chapters didn't increase your level either but did increase in difficulty. This is what A.Net did with GW1 and that was BEFORE Age of Conan - nice try.

    I did play GW1 and most expansions.  You can start any expansion except for one at level 1, but you are right, they did provide horizontal progression....we were talkin bout GW2 though and I was certainly not talking about end-game horizontal nor did I ever claim that AOC was the first to impliment horizontal end-game....nice try to you sir....

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  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by Dzone

    I mean this game has been out for 2 months and most ppl are at engame alrdy.Hardcore gamers have alrdy made full sets of exotic gear, caped several crafts, and prolly 100% map completion. I thought mmo's where about the journey getting to cap and once you reach cap new stuff whould open up for maxed players.

    I'm more of a casually player myself, and i've alrdy reached lvl 80 and 70% map completion. In other mmo's i spent literally months just to reach level cap. This game i swear i broke my record for reaching cap and i wasn't even trying.

    How is this game gona keep us playing if everything comes to ez and quick?

    PS. MMO's like eq, wow, uo, ffxi, to name a few lasted years, how in the world will this game live up to thoughs if ppl run outa things to do. Those games you never ran outa things to do.

    Apparently you're not casual enough. I'm at level 65 and at 37% map complete. Guess some of us are just not fast about it. I spend most of my time exploring, gathering and occasionally doing a DE if im in the immediate area.

    People who rush thru to complete every nook, every cranny and tries to get to the end just astonish me. I enjoy finding those non-map exploration achievement specific areas like those caves and holes that have the mini vets in them that have chests with goodies.

    To give you an example of just how slowly i play, i finally did the shatterer yesterday at level 61. :)

  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by bcbully
    Originally posted by ShakyMo
    Bully, well you can repeat the whole gear grind twice again If you want heal, tank and dps gear (with pvp gear being a mix of tank and either of the other two) - well more if you want hit based,pen based,crit based etc..

    Another flaw with tsw imo, as the gear dependancy in the game discourages experimentation with the skill wheel, you have to stay in a narrow set of builds that go with your gear.

    I can agree with this. It makes you need extra sets. I think it was intended though. Purely for adding longevity. I really don't see how you could get around this unless someone made an mmorpg that's completely flat. I'm not aware of one if there is. It would be an interesting concept though. Progression through abilities alone.

    Champions Online had a pretty true "pick a skill...any skill" setup, but it left things flat as bc said.  I always think there should be some limits because if not (at least with Champions) it becomes very dull and...flat

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  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    I think they should have made pvp like that. Just pick your gear like in gw2. Vets would have the advantage of more skills to pick from and more synergies in their builds by having passives from 3rd or 4th weapons. I mean you wear the uniforms in pvp anyway, they might as well of made it gearless. Then there would-be horizontal progression,in pvp at least.
  • grimalgrimal Stamford, CTPosts: 2,873Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by Dzone

    I mean this game has been out for 2 months and most ppl are at engame alrdy.Hardcore gamers have alrdy made full sets of exotic gear, caped several crafts, and prolly 100% map completion. I thought mmo's where about the journey getting to cap and once you reach cap new stuff whould open up for maxed players.

    I'm more of a casually player myself, and i've alrdy reached lvl 80 and 70% map completion. In other mmo's i spent literally months just to reach level cap. This game i swear i broke my record for reaching cap and i wasn't even trying.

    How is this game gona keep us playing if everything comes to ez and quick?

    PS. MMO's like eq, wow, uo, ffxi, to name a few lasted years, how in the world will this game live up to thoughs if ppl run outa things to do. Those games you never ran outa things to do.

    Apparently you're not casual enough. I'm at level 65 and at 37% map complete. Guess some of us are just not fast about it. I spend most of my time exploring, gathering and occasionally doing a DE if im in the immediate area.

    People who rush thru to complete every nook, every cranny and tries to get to the end just astonish me. I enjoy finding those non-map exploration achievement specific areas like those caves and holes that have the mini vets in them that have chests with goodies.

    Yeah I'm not 80 either.

    But I think we are not the norm here.  Most players, I believe, whom started at launch already have an 80 and/or have moved on.

  • TdogSkalTdogSkal Livonia, MIPosts: 1,244Member
    Originally posted by Dzone

    I mean this game has been out for 2 months and most ppl are at engame alrdy.Hardcore gamers have alrdy made full sets of exotic gear, caped several crafts, and prolly 100% map completion. I thought mmo's where about the journey getting to cap and once you reach cap new stuff whould open up for maxed players.

    I'm more of a casually player myself, and i've alrdy reached lvl 80 and 70% map completion. In other mmo's i spent literally months just to reach level cap. This game i swear i broke my record for reaching cap and i wasn't even trying.

    How is this game gona keep us playing if everything comes to ez and quick?

    PS. MMO's like eq, wow, uo, ffxi, to name a few lasted years, how in the world will this game live up to thoughs if ppl run outa things to do. Those games you never ran outa things to do.

    Please never include WoW in a list with EQ and UO.  They are not even in the same league.

    WoW is what started the ez and quick leveling to cap and then starting to "Play the real end game".  

    Have you done Dungeons in GW2, they are not quick and not easy unless you have a smart group.  It is normally to wipe in most dungeons a few times with PUGs.

    Sooner or Later

  • ZzadZzad Palma de MallorcaPosts: 1,332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dzone

    I mean this game has been out for 2 months and most ppl are at engame alrdy.Hardcore gamers have alrdy made full sets of exotic gear, caped several crafts, and prolly 100% map completion. I thought mmo's where about the journey getting to cap and once you reach cap new stuff whould open up for maxed players.

    I'm more of a casually player myself, and i've alrdy reached lvl 80 and 70% map completion. In other mmo's i spent literally months just to reach level cap. This game i swear i broke my record for reaching cap and i wasn't even trying.

    How is this game gona keep us playing if everything comes to ez and quick?

    PS. MMO's like eq, wow, uo, ffxi, to name a few lasted years, how in the world will this game live up to thoughs if ppl run outa things to do. Those games you never ran outa things to do.

    On the other hand...i´ve been playing since Headstart around 3-4 hours most days & my highest character is lvl 65 still......

    It all depends in how you play & if you rush.........................

    In all MMOS you get ppl hitting cap in 1...2...days.....

    That doesn´t mean than they have seen or experienced all the content the game has to offer.

     

    PS: You mentioned WoW lasting years...well i assure you you can level in WoW to cap in less than 1 month... just few days needed...

  • ShakyMoShakyMo BradfordPosts: 7,207Member
    Wow only lasts years if you like raiding.

    If you don't like raiding gw2 last longer imo. You can play WvW a lot longer than wintergrasp or whatever.
  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon

    People who rush through these games are going to find faster & faster ways of doing so. This doesn't equal the majority of the population though. Most people don't stay up 40-70hours just to hit max lvl in a video game. It also doesn't mean you're experiencing most of the game when you decide to play this way.

    That said, 2 months in, and there are still A LOT of people without a lvl 80. In my guild we're still getting new players up to speed, and we find new people joining the game every few days. Much of this game is as fast or slow, as deep or shallow, as easy or challenging as you make it out to be.

    The game has a lot of intricacy built into it that isn't thrust into your face. Much of the game is built off of the first, which has around a decade of lore and mechanics behind it. People are still learning builds & tactics, trying to figure out various ways of completing dungeons, and discovering elements of lore they never knew existed. There's also the whole crafter's endgame, which is insane. It's not just limited to the crafting professions, but the mystic forge as well has a metric ton of recipes that still haven't been discovered yet. People are still figuring out all the weapons available, and as much as I've looked, I can't find anyone who has managed to successfully figure out how to craft legendary armor yet. The only reason I even know it exists, is because there's a data mined reference to them in gw2db, but no info as to how they are made or what they look like.

    There's a lot there if you aren't only focused on lvling and power progression.

  • SchwaSchwa Lakewood, OHPosts: 29Member

    Apparently typing out the full and correct spelling of TOO and EASY is difficult though...

  • HomituHomitu Hometown, HIPosts: 2,030Member
    I'm very disappointed in this thread.  I tried to do the best thing I could for this thread, which was to completely change its topic, but nobody followed my lead :(
  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Nataraya

    Get real guys, we aint gamers no more, we are consumers.

    At least i keep enjoying GW2 as what it is , .freaking great game,,, u know playing for the joy of play.

     

    The same could be said for most of the games that have come out in the last several years.

    Most have been bashed for being "too fast, too easy", yet amazingly enough, there were a lot of people that enjoyed playing them - and still play them.

    Not surprisingly, this "good game, bad game" crap comes down to personal preference, and not some objective assessment of actual quality.

    If a game doesn't appeal to an individual because it's too easy, too fast, not meaningful, etc, it's a bad, evil game, even if others like it.  If a different game appeals to that same individual, even though it is also too easy, too fast, not meaningful, etc, then it's "just enjoy the fun", even though there are others that dislike it for the same reasons as the first game.

    To answer, the OP, yes, I think the game caters to the ultra-casual player, in an attempt to gain the widest possible audience.  It's a very trivial game, and became very tedious very quickly for me.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • sumdumguy1sumdumguy1 avondale, AZPosts: 962Member Uncommon
    ANy game is what you will make it.  Assuming you like the game enough to play it, if you put a whole bunch of time and effort into it, chances are you will hit level fast.  When I made that mistake with another game many years agi, I decided to change how I play games.  I take my time, explore and try different things out as I move along.  I also make sure I spend time tryig out most if not all the things a game has to offer.  This make my experience significantly slower.  At least this works for me and it has changed my gaming experience.
  • itgrowlsitgrowls newport news, VAPosts: 2,951Member
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by gordiflu

    True, nothing new. This problem is common to all new games. Get to level cap in a couple of weeks playing casually, end of free month and you are already bored, look for new game. It's not only GW2, it's virtually any recent game.

    Dont forget people complaining about how grindy the game is as well...

    You cant both have little grind and 6 months to levelcap or more, it just isnt possible.

    The real problem is that MMOs changed so casual players can play them as well but most of us here didnt really change. You shouldnt play any "modern" MMO long term the same way you played EQ, AC, Lineage or M59.

    GW2 is an excellent game and does what it should great but if you cap out in a few weeks you are playing it too much. Yeah, I do have an 80 myself with most of the gear exoctic so maybe I shouldnt be preaching, but the fact is that modern MMOs are made for people who also have a life and can kick in an hour or 2 every day instead of a full days work like EQ.

    The thing is that old MMO players are in minority today. And we should maybe take a hint and play less, or play several games beside each other.

    The alternative is to make alts.

    Ehh? i play 2 hours a day and maybe 3 to 4 hrs on weekends and it took me 18 days to hit lvl 80.  You don't need to play a lot to hit 80 in GW2 because the leveling curve is designed to be fast on purpose. GW2 has the fastest leveling i have experinced of all the modern MMOS and yes it is on purpose.

    I play for 6 hours a day 5-6 days a week, on three toons two of which are above level 50 but i still don't have a level 80 nor do i have the inclination to instantly get all exotics immediately. Guess casual to you doesn't mean the same thing to me. :)

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    PVE in this game is more for the casual player. Although it does have Legendaries which are pretty hard to get.

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  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by gordiflu

    True, nothing new. This problem is common to all new games. Get to level cap in a couple of weeks playing casually, end of free month and you are already bored, look for new game. It's not only GW2, it's virtually any recent game.

    Dont forget people complaining about how grindy the game is as well...

    You cant both have little grind and 6 months to levelcap or more, it just isnt possible.

    The real problem is that MMOs changed so casual players can play them as well but most of us here didnt really change. You shouldnt play any "modern" MMO long term the same way you played EQ, AC, Lineage or M59.

    GW2 is an excellent game and does what it should great but if you cap out in a few weeks you are playing it too much. Yeah, I do have an 80 myself with most of the gear exoctic so maybe I shouldnt be preaching, but the fact is that modern MMOs are made for people who also have a life and can kick in an hour or 2 every day instead of a full days work like EQ.

    The thing is that old MMO players are in minority today. And we should maybe take a hint and play less, or play several games beside each other.

    The alternative is to make alts.

    Ehh? i play 2 hours a day and maybe 3 to 4 hrs on weekends and it took me 18 days to hit lvl 80.  You don't need to play a lot to hit 80 in GW2 because the leveling curve is designed to be fast on purpose. GW2 has the fastest leveling i have experinced of all the modern MMOS and yes it is on purpose.

    I play for 6 hours a day 5-6 days a week, on three toons two of which are above level 50 but i still don't have a level 80 nor do i have the inclination to instantly get all exotics immediately. Guess casual to you doesn't mean the same thing to me. :)

    Exactly, I have clocked over 200 hours, albeit with a ton of time spent pvping, but my highest is just now at 70. It all depends on how you want to play the game.

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  • RohnRohn Saint Peters, MOPosts: 3,740Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Kuppa
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by gordiflu

    True, nothing new. This problem is common to all new games. Get to level cap in a couple of weeks playing casually, end of free month and you are already bored, look for new game. It's not only GW2, it's virtually any recent game.

    Dont forget people complaining about how grindy the game is as well...

    You cant both have little grind and 6 months to levelcap or more, it just isnt possible.

    The real problem is that MMOs changed so casual players can play them as well but most of us here didnt really change. You shouldnt play any "modern" MMO long term the same way you played EQ, AC, Lineage or M59.

    GW2 is an excellent game and does what it should great but if you cap out in a few weeks you are playing it too much. Yeah, I do have an 80 myself with most of the gear exoctic so maybe I shouldnt be preaching, but the fact is that modern MMOs are made for people who also have a life and can kick in an hour or 2 every day instead of a full days work like EQ.

    The thing is that old MMO players are in minority today. And we should maybe take a hint and play less, or play several games beside each other.

    The alternative is to make alts.

    Ehh? i play 2 hours a day and maybe 3 to 4 hrs on weekends and it took me 18 days to hit lvl 80.  You don't need to play a lot to hit 80 in GW2 because the leveling curve is designed to be fast on purpose. GW2 has the fastest leveling i have experinced of all the modern MMOS and yes it is on purpose.

    I play for 6 hours a day 5-6 days a week, on three toons two of which are above level 50 but i still don't have a level 80 nor do i have the inclination to instantly get all exotics immediately. Guess casual to you doesn't mean the same thing to me. :)

    Exactly, I have clocked over 200 hours, albeit with a ton of time spent pvping, but my highest is just now at 70. It all depends on how you want to play the game.

     

    The exact same thing can be, and has been, said about every other game out there.  It all comes down to personal preference, and not factual assessments of a game being good or bad.

    That hasn't stopped those in the MMORPG community from trying to sell their personal assessments as fact, however.  That goes for every game.

    For me, I just can't play the game anymore.  It's just too tedious and the gameworld is meaningless, in my opinion.

    Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Oh, irony of someone complaining that something lacks the need for time and effort....yet cant be bothered to type the extra two letters to type the word easy
  • GravargGravarg Harker Heights, TXPosts: 3,332Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dzone

    I mean this game has been out for 2 months and most ppl are at engame alrdy.Hardcore gamers have alrdy made full sets of exotic gear, caped several crafts, and prolly 100% map completion. I thought mmo's where about the journey getting to cap and once you reach cap new stuff whould open up for maxed players.

    I'm more of a casually player myself, and i've alrdy reached lvl 80 and 70% map completion. In other mmo's i spent literally months just to reach level cap. This game i swear i broke my record for reaching cap and i wasn't even trying.

    How is this game gona keep us playing if everything comes to ez and quick?

    PS. MMO's like eq, wow, uo, ffxi, to name a few lasted years, how in the world will this game live up to thoughs if ppl run outa things to do. Those games you never ran outa things to do.

    This is how new games are.  They are trying to cater to everyone, but always end up catering to one set of players.  Developers need to pick a market and stick with it.  If you try to cater to everyone, you end up catering to noone.  Other than WoW and Rift, there isn't a single game that has done a good job catering to almost everyone.

  • halflife25halflife25 Toronto, ONPosts: 737Member
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by gordiflu

    True, nothing new. This problem is common to all new games. Get to level cap in a couple of weeks playing casually, end of free month and you are already bored, look for new game. It's not only GW2, it's virtually any recent game.

    Dont forget people complaining about how grindy the game is as well...

    You cant both have little grind and 6 months to levelcap or more, it just isnt possible.

    The real problem is that MMOs changed so casual players can play them as well but most of us here didnt really change. You shouldnt play any "modern" MMO long term the same way you played EQ, AC, Lineage or M59.

    GW2 is an excellent game and does what it should great but if you cap out in a few weeks you are playing it too much. Yeah, I do have an 80 myself with most of the gear exoctic so maybe I shouldnt be preaching, but the fact is that modern MMOs are made for people who also have a life and can kick in an hour or 2 every day instead of a full days work like EQ.

    The thing is that old MMO players are in minority today. And we should maybe take a hint and play less, or play several games beside each other.

    The alternative is to make alts.

    Ehh? i play 2 hours a day and maybe 3 to 4 hrs on weekends and it took me 18 days to hit lvl 80.  You don't need to play a lot to hit 80 in GW2 because the leveling curve is designed to be fast on purpose. GW2 has the fastest leveling i have experinced of all the modern MMOS and yes it is on purpose.

    I play for 6 hours a day 5-6 days a week, on three toons two of which are above level 50 but i still don't have a level 80 nor do i have the inclination to instantly get all exotics immediately. Guess casual to you doesn't mean the same thing to me. :)

    So what s casual then? 6 to 8 hours a week isn't casual anymore? and you have three toons as you mentioned while i stuck to my engineer till it got to 80. You are dividing your time between three characters and i didn't.

  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by itgrowls
    Originally posted by halflife25
    Originally posted by Loke666
    Originally posted by gordiflu

    True, nothing new. This problem is common to all new games. Get to level cap in a couple of weeks playing casually, end of free month and you are already bored, look for new game. It's not only GW2, it's virtually any recent game.

    Dont forget people complaining about how grindy the game is as well...

    You cant both have little grind and 6 months to levelcap or more, it just isnt possible.

    The real problem is that MMOs changed so casual players can play them as well but most of us here didnt really change. You shouldnt play any "modern" MMO long term the same way you played EQ, AC, Lineage or M59.

    GW2 is an excellent game and does what it should great but if you cap out in a few weeks you are playing it too much. Yeah, I do have an 80 myself with most of the gear exoctic so maybe I shouldnt be preaching, but the fact is that modern MMOs are made for people who also have a life and can kick in an hour or 2 every day instead of a full days work like EQ.

    The thing is that old MMO players are in minority today. And we should maybe take a hint and play less, or play several games beside each other.

    The alternative is to make alts.

    Ehh? i play 2 hours a day and maybe 3 to 4 hrs on weekends and it took me 18 days to hit lvl 80.  You don't need to play a lot to hit 80 in GW2 because the leveling curve is designed to be fast on purpose. GW2 has the fastest leveling i have experinced of all the modern MMOS and yes it is on purpose.

    I play for 6 hours a day 5-6 days a week, on three toons two of which are above level 50 but i still don't have a level 80 nor do i have the inclination to instantly get all exotics immediately. Guess casual to you doesn't mean the same thing to me. :)

    So what s casual then? 6 to 8 hours a week isn't casual anymore? and you have three toons as you mentioned while i stuck to my engineer till it got to 80. You are dividing your time between three characters and i didn't.

    By your own account you are not playing 6-8 hours, but 16-18 hours. Yes it's still casual, but how you spend your time is also important when it comes to leveling.

  • pedrostrikpedrostrik lisboaPosts: 391Member


    Originally posted by Aerowyn

    Originally posted by Alber_gamer Where do people get that Explorable modes are hard?    They are just diferent than the usual mmo dungeons and a lot of people play them wrong, but if properly played they're quite straightforward, especially bossfights which are kinda minigames about avoiding one or two abilities that you get massively warned about while DPSing. Most of the time it's "red circle that appears 2-3 seconds prior to anything happening there = bad". And then you have a skill that allows you to roll and become invulnerable to all kinds of damage for a second or so constantly..   Definitely not an example of "hard". They're supposed to be GW2's PvE endgame and I personally finished everyone of them with PuGs and less than optimal gear with a couple of wipes here and there (which by the way, just means you can corpsezerg the mobs you're killing). In games with real hard PvE those things are unthinkable.   I'm not saying that makes the game better or worse. Just that it's definitely not hard.
    Most dungeons I have done this simply is not true.. yes you get red circles for some AOE stuff but the majority of attacks that are directed at a single player have no indication at all other than a quick attack anaimation by the mob.. Can't count how many times I have been 1 shot in an dungeon when we were are facing multiple mobs all over the plce.. it's not just watch for circle and move out the way like other MMOs
    nice answer here cause those instances are really hard, on the other side open world its quite easy, least the last maps that are full of mobs and fast respawns , anyway i think we can take off those circles from options menu
  • RandaynRandayn Sellersville, PAPosts: 883Member Uncommon
     but the majority of attacks that are directed at a single player have no indication at all other than a quick attack anaimation by the mob.. Can't count how many times I have been 1 shot in an dungeon when we were are facing multiple 

     

    I don't understand how facing this kind of situation would be fun or require skill to get through?  if a mob 1 shots without indication but there is no tank to stop the 1 shotting party, then how is that good design??

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