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Trion spoiled me with its patching and up keep of Rift.

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Comments

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by GeezerGamer

    I am not so sure I would call the games as 3rd and 4th gen as you say. The reason I say this is because there was a transition that began in 07 and was realized in 08. It was this transition where Themeparks changed. As well as no reall decent sandboxes, but realy, what I am talking about started with WoW late in TBC and was fully realizd in Wrath. But not immidiately in Wrath. Basically, Themeparks traded detailed and involved Metagaming and slow leveling for rapid leveling and game crippling gear progressions.

    Prior to Patch 2.3, WoW end game gear levels started at lvl 115 and went through to 125.

    After 2.3 - Gear went from 125 to 164

    Then once Wrath was released the item levels picked up again at 200 and finally ended at 284

    The worst of it was that the gear progression was so far out of control that the early 25man raid rewards were outclassed by    5 man heroic dungeon rewards. Naxx25 gear was lvl 213. ToC came in and released lvl 219 gear. This trend repeats again too.

    From 2007 through 2009, the MMO changed. I'd say that if we were going to break games out between 2nd and 3rd gen or even 4th gen, which I don't know that a 4th gen exists. I'd say that WoW itself transitioned from one to the next in that period.

    The reason I say GW2 is not a next gen game is because it has it's roots in WoW as much as Rift and SWTOR do. ANET used WoW as the foundation. The difference is that instead of making a better wow, they used WoW and said, OK, here's what not to do. But in the end, It's still based on WoW and is desigend to appeal to a certain type of WoW player. It certainly is not it's own game from the ground up. And it still falls into the same category as Later WoW. No Metagame, Fast, easy leveling and rapid easy gear aquisition though 80, (It's still gear progression. It's smaller in scale and highly cosmetic in nature, but it's there)

    The absolute worst patch in WoW history was the trial of the crusader. They were coming off Ulduar, one of the best raid instances ever in any game (for Rifters who havent played it, it was even more epic-and challenging-than Hammerknell).  And then came along ToC, which brough with it dungeons that outgeared Naxx and an easy raid instance that triviliazed the gear to the much better designed, and more challenging Ulduar.  Why bother spending time in Ulduar when the gear in ToC was better?  Easier content should = lesser gear regardless of when its released.  EQ1 balanced this to a reasonable degree for many, many years and it was a key to its success.  WoW threw the whole risk vs reward thing right out the window and it became new vs reward, not risk vs reward.

     

    That and the explosion of the Valor/Justice system.   I know people hate RNG, but itmade you actually care what the dungeon bosses drop.  In WoW dungeon boss is mostly just disenchant fodder, and you run for the currency only.  Games are too reliant on these RNG removing currency that everything can just start feeling like a chore, a long grind for gear.  And Rift is obviously as guilty of this as anyone.

     

    And yes, the fast easy leveling...WoW was an acceptable balance.  Towards the end of Vanilla, after 2 years of discovering the absolute optimal leveling path and quest progression, people had WoW leveling down to 6 days and change of /played time. Again, this is after careful study and planning and tons of practice.  Most modern MMOs you see the first max level toon within 2 days, and thats without the two years of practice.  Rift, SWTOR, GW2...all guilty as charged.

    And who was directly responsible for this shift? Activision. This all started right after Activision took over Blizzard. Now combine this with what Turbine did to LOTRO and DDO and we now have the sad state of post 2008 MMORPGs.

    Insta-capping, assembly iine gear upgrades and P2(do something easier or better)

    I still think Rift is the best TP MMO in modern releases, but I still won't say it's above what I just listed. And now with Deep's Depot, I am more than curious to see what it will look like after Storm Legion. In fact the appearace of that button is the only reason I have not pre ordered the expansion.  Nor will I until I know for certain there is nothing in that shop that can be used by a character. I don't care if it's only aviator sunglasses and boxing gloves. If it's in there, My sub is canceled.

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon

    Yeah i really hate seeing that shopping cart button. But i preordered the xpac because of the sheer quantity of features and content. They shouldve called it rift 2.

  • strangiato2112strangiato2112 Richmond, VAPosts: 1,538Member Common
    Originally posted by Foomerang

    Yeah i really hate seeing that shopping cart button. But i preordered the xpac because of the sheer quantity of features and content. They shouldve called it rift 2.

    Here is the question though.

     

    What if Rift had to make a choice between 3 options in order to stay proftiable:

     

    1. Cut staff

    2. Raise subscription rates

    3. Sell vanity stuff

     

     

    Which would you prefer? 

  • FoomerangFoomerang Portland, ORPosts: 5,565Member Uncommon


    Originally posted by strangiato2112
    Originally posted by Foomerang Yeah i really hate seeing that shopping cart button. But i preordered the xpac because of the sheer quantity of features and content. They shouldve called it rift 2.
    Here is the question though.

     

    What if Rift had to make a choice between 3 options in order to stay proftiable:

     

    1. Cut staff

    2. Raise subscription rates

    3. Sell vanity stuff

     

     

    Which would you prefer? 


    Raised sub rates

  • GeezerGamerGeezerGamer ChairPosts: 5,587Member Uncommon

     


    Originally posted by strangiato2112

    Originally posted by Foomerang Yeah i really hate seeing that shopping cart button. But i preordered the xpac because of the sheer quantity of features and content. They shouldve called it rift 2.
    Here is the question though.

     

     

    What if Rift had to make a choice between 3 options in order to stay proftiable:

     

    1. Cut staff

    2. Raise subscription rates

    3. Sell vanity stuff

     

     

    Which would you prefer? 


     

     

    Not my problem. They'd have to figure it out but If I don't like it, I'd cancel.

     

    I played Anarchy Online up to 2010. That's when Funcom put a cash shop in. And the announcement was that the shop would focus on cosmetic items and they "Would not sell power" In 2012, the shop is now P2W. This game still reqires a AAA sub fee to play it as well. Sub and Shop? I'll pass. This is why I refuse to buy TSW. Based on Anarchy, it's just a matter of time until they go that route.

    GW2 has no Sub but it still has a Box fee so that along with a Cash Shop still makes me suspiscious. Even though GW2's Shop is way above board in the P2W area, it's subject to change without notice. You can say ANET will never do it, That's fine, but I've seen the song and dance before. And while I can trust ANET's intentions, I don't feel the same about NCSoft. Anyway, I've already bought the game, so At least I don't have to sub to it and in that regard, it's good. 

    Ultimately, I wil not pay a sub in a game with a Cash Shop. That is not an option. They need to pick one or the other.

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