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The Bottom line : Too Auto-Dynamic

delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,964Member Uncommon

Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community.  This is ANet's formula, they did not screw up, they made it that way on purpose......It's just made too Auto-Dynamic for my liking !

Would I ever buy an expansion ?......Probabbly not, because it will be the same formula.

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  • xpiherxpiher Indianapolis, INPosts: 3,311Member
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

    HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community.  This is ANet's formula, they did not screw up, they made it that way on purpose......It's just made too Auto-Dynamic for my liking !

    Would I ever buy an expansion ?......Probabbly not, because it will be the same formula.

    PvP and more complicated dungeons is where group play comes in. I hope to see more maps like Orr but with more complicated questing, like siege style mechanics against mobs (setting up trebs at certain location, mounting assaults at certain times etc). 

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    Xpiher's GW2
    GW 1 - Xpiher Duminous
    Darkfall - Xpiher Duminous (NA) retired
    AoC - Xpiher (Tyranny) retired
    Warhammer - Xpiher

  • InFlamestwoInFlamestwo HindPosts: 662Member

    You can group up with people if you want to. Have you tried?

    The only thing you don't need to group up is in Open World. how often do you group up with people while leveling in WoW, Aion etc? only when you need the same boss kill perhaps.

    image

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

    HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community. 

    This isn't addressed to you as such, but to all the people who think as you do...

    Why do so many players seem to assume that the formation of a "community" is the developer's responsibility?  Are they all so used to sitting alone in attics, basements and bedrooms that they need some sort of in-game incentive before they will start socialising with other players?  I see post after post, in a variety of threads, where people say things that amount to "nobody talks" and, ironically, they don't seem to see that THEY fit in that exact, same category. 

    Grouping is not the same as Community.  Don't expect the "community" to come to you, fully-formed and with welcoming arms - make an effort.  Stop sitting there passively and moaning that no-one talks/socialises and DO SOMETHING about it if it means so much to you.

  • ConnmacartConnmacart OsloPosts: 681Member Uncommon
    To me the way Anet did it is more community building than most other MMOs. You can't build a community when the rest of the players are rivals instead of allies. Building a community is more than just grouping up. It's helping others even if only for a short while. 
  • kaiser3282kaiser3282 Phoenix, AZPosts: 2,660Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by Dibdabs
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

    HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community. 

    This isn't addressed to you as such, but to all the people who think as you do...

    Why do so many players seem to assume that the formation of a "community" is the developer's responsibility?  Are they all so used to sitting alone in attics, basements and bedrooms that they need some sort of in-game incentive before they will start socialising with other players?  I see post after post, in a variety of threads, where people say things that amount to "nobody talks" and, ironically, they don't seem to see that THEY fit in that exact, same category. 

    Grouping is not the same as Community.  Don't expect the "community" to come to you, fully-formed and with welcoming arms - make an effort.  Stop sitting there passively and moaning that no-one talks/socialises and DO SOMETHING about it if it means so much to you.

    He has already posted several times either in his own threads or other threads complaining about the lack of community. he just wanted to make a new thread yet again to complain some more that people dont want to be friends and sit around yapping for half the day. Best part is him and many others blame any lack of people talking on the wrong things. The main reson people arent talking constantly is because of the low amount of downtime, NOT because of this feature or that feature.

    In GW2 youre running around killing stuff, exploring, PvPing etc the majority of the time. Mobs respawn quickly and your ekept active doing DEs. Theres not much time to just stand around and chat unless you intentionally stop playing for the purpose of chatting. In the older games that people put on a pedestal for their "community" people were sitting around talking constantly because of doing nothing. Just sitting around camping spawns, just waiting. You entertained yourself by chatting with others rather than actually being engaged with the game itself.

    I just find it funny that people consider this such a bad thing. Did you buy a game or a chat room? Id rather be kept busy and entertained by the game itself than being so bored and having so many lulls in the gameplay that i spend the majority of my time using it as a chat room with a fancy GUI.

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by kaiser3282
    Originally posted by Dibdabs
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

    HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community. 

    This isn't addressed to you as such, but to all the people who think as you do...

    Why do so many players seem to assume that the formation of a "community" is the developer's responsibility?  Are they all so used to sitting alone in attics, basements and bedrooms that they need some sort of in-game incentive before they will start socialising with other players?  I see post after post, in a variety of threads, where people say things that amount to "nobody talks" and, ironically, they don't seem to see that THEY fit in that exact, same category. 

    Grouping is not the same as Community.  Don't expect the "community" to come to you, fully-formed and with welcoming arms - make an effort.  Stop sitting there passively and moaning that no-one talks/socialises and DO SOMETHING about it if it means so much to you.

    He has already posted several times either in his own threads or other threads complaining about the lack of community. he just wanted to make a new thread yet again to complain some more that people dont want to be friends and sit around yapping for half the day. Best part is him and many others blame any lack of people talking on the wrong things. The main reson people arent talking constantly is because of the low amount of downtime, NOT because of this feature or that feature.

    In GW2 youre running around killing stuff, exploring, PvPing etc the majority of the time. Mobs respawn quickly and your ekept active doing DEs. Theres not much time to just stand around and chat unless you intentionally stop playing for the purpose of chatting. In the older games that people put on a pedestal for their "community" people were sitting around talking constantly because of doing nothing. Just sitting around camping spawns, just waiting. You entertained yourself by chatting with others rather than actually being engaged with the game itself.

    I just find it funny that people consider this such a bad thing. Did you buy a game or a chat room? Id rather be kept busy and entertained by the game itself than being so bored and having so many lulls in the gameplay that i spend the majority of my time using it as a chat room with a fancy GUI.

    Oh, he's one of THOSE, is he... he'd rather sit back and complain than do something positive about it  :D  That explains a lot.

    You make a good point when you say this game has a minimal amount of downtime.  I, too, am always doing something, to the point where I forget to look at the chat box for 10 to 15 minutes at a time.  I would think I'm not the only one to do this, not by a long shot.

  • jondifooljondifool cphPosts: 1,114Member
    Originally posted by InFlamestwo

    You can group up with people if you want to. Have you tried?

    The only thing you don't need to group up is in Open World. how often do you group up with people while leveling in WoW, Aion etc? only when you need the same boss kill perhaps.

    Just because you can group up as you want- doesn't change the fact that ArenaNet have made the game so accesible that some of the normal social parts of MMO simply have a lot less reason to exsist. And as such the game simply lacks some of the social fields you normaly find.

    This is a loss or a win depending on who you are, but there is no reason in denying it, just because you are not feeling the impact.

    It is a big issue for alot of player. And an area that ArenaNets throughfull and very efficient internal testing didn't come up with a slolution to.

    It is the games weakest point atm IMHO. And that oppinion is shared by alot of players(look at this sites review and score giving atm . and you see its lovest score there) 

     

     

    read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jondifool

    Just because you can group up as you want- doesn't change the fact that ArenaNet have made the game so accesible that some of the normal social parts of MMO simply have a lot less reason to exsist.  

    Ok, I'll bite... what "normal social parts of MMO" do you refer to?  I'm genuinely interested.

  • Rhianni32Rhianni32 Denver, COPosts: 222Member
    Originally posted by InFlamestwo

    You can group up with people if you want to. Have you tried?

    The only thing you don't need to group up is in Open World. how often do you group up with people while leveling in WoW, Aion etc? only when you need the same boss kill perhaps.

    Great point and something to keep in mind. Its not like you group up a lot in other MMOs while leveling up. Raids, pvp/battlegrounds/warfronts, and raids? Definitely and that happens here in GW2.

    Its not like there was lots of "LFG for lvl 5 quest mob" going on in other mmos.

  • Rhianni32Rhianni32 Denver, COPosts: 222Member
    Originally posted by Dibdabs
    Originally posted by jondifool

    Just because you can group up as you want- doesn't change the fact that ArenaNet have made the game so accesible that some of the normal social parts of MMO simply have a lot less reason to exsist.  

    Ok, I'll bite... what "normal social parts of MMO" do you refer to?  I'm genuinely interested.

    Yeah I am curious too.

    Are lots of players missing out on the chuck norris jokes?

  • aesperusaesperus Hamshire, NVPosts: 5,128Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

    HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community.  This is ANet's formula, they did not screw up, they made it that way on purpose......It's just made too Auto-Dynamic for my liking !

    Would I ever buy an expansion ?......Probabbly not, because it will be the same formula.

    Fair enough.

    You may want to take a second look at the game, though. While I can see where your coming from in regards to dynamic events, the game is far from having 'no community'. There is a pretty big focus on cooperative group play, and this especially starts to come into play once you do explorable dungeons, sPvP (especially tournaments), or WvW.

    Often times when I see people complaining about the lack of community in this game, it's because they expect the game to force players to interact with them. And that would actually be a bad thing. Instead, GW2 creates an environment where communication isn't forced, but it's highly beneficial.

    Even today I still see people using global chats frequently. Calling out events for others to come help out with, trying to form dungeon groups, sharing information, orchestrating strategy in WvW. Couple that with all the fans that are creating content for the game & publishing videos, blogs, guides, etc. and I don't see how you can't call that a community. Furthermore I might even go as far as to question which ones you found were better? Not too long ago in the game, a player did a social experiment trading to 100 strangers via the mailing system ingame. He'd send them the money and see how many players sent the promised item back. Nearly every single person did. I can't think of any other MMO communities that I could say the same for.

  • BladestromBladestrom edinburghPosts: 4,946Member Uncommon
    Here is a slightly different take on it, for people who play solo, auto grouping gives them an extra option while out in the world. In other games they would just solo, now they solo and can temporarilly group up. For those in guilds well you have grouping anyway, but people could auto group with you out there anyway. It's all good- auto grouping replaces nothing, it just adds an addittional flavour.

    rpg/mmorg history: Dun Darach>Bloodwych>Bards Tale 1-3>Eye of the beholder > Might and Magic 2,3,5 > FFVII> Baldur's Gate 1, 2 > Planescape Torment >Morrowind > WOW > oblivion > LOTR > Guild Wars (1900hrs elementalist) Vanguard. > GW2(1000 elementalist), Wildstar

    Now playing GW2, AOW 3, ESO, LOTR, Elite D

  • ReizlaReizla AlkmaarPosts: 3,301Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by InFlamestwo

    You can group up with people if you want to. Have you tried?

    The only thing you don't need to group up is in Open World. how often do you group up with people while leveling in WoW, Aion etc? only when you need the same boss kill perhaps.

    Yes, I did try to group up in GW2, but without luck. Did only one dungeon (AC SM), had some WvW with my old guild in party (only 4 hours or so total), and the rest of my 150+ hours of GW2 felt like a single-player game. No thank you! Even GW(1) which was not sold as MMORPG feels more like one than GW2 does.

    On the 2nd question. WoW is much the same like GW2. No parties unless you get into a dungeon *sadly*. Aion with it's 'forced party areas' has more chance for party play, even if you don't have the same quests to run. Playing TERA right now, and in the 20 hours I've played since last week when I started, I've had 2 hours of party already (lvl 23 now).

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  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,013Member Uncommon

    MMOs used to have group content in the open world, but players complained that it was hard to find groups.

    • EQ2 had heroic group quests
    • Lotro had group quests
    • WoW had elite group quests
    • etc.
    They've all been nerfed, because people complained that it took long to find groups, and that they couldn't solo and progress their characters.  So the players are to blame.
  • VolkonVolkon Sterling, VAPosts: 3,788Member
    Originally posted by Reizla
    Originally posted by InFlamestwo

    You can group up with people if you want to. Have you tried?

    The only thing you don't need to group up is in Open World. how often do you group up with people while leveling in WoW, Aion etc? only when you need the same boss kill perhaps.

    Yes, I did try to group up in GW2, but without luck. Did only one dungeon (AC SM), had some WvW with my old guild in party (only 4 hours or so total), and the rest of my 150+ hours of GW2 felt like a single-player game. No thank you! Even GW(1) which was not sold as MMORPG feels more like one than GW2 does.

    On the 2nd question. WoW is much the same like GW2. No parties unless you get into a dungeon *sadly*. Aion with it's 'forced party areas' has more chance for party play, even if you don't have the same quests to run. Playing TERA right now, and in the 20 hours I've played since last week when I started, I've had 2 hours of party already (lvl 23 now).

    I'm going to have to admit I find this interesting. During the past two weeks I've almost exclusively been grouped up... but it's been content that you're intended (to a degree at least) group up for. WvWvW. We get into TS3 for the server, get into the appropriate channel for the map we're going into (instant vocal grouping with the whole server WvW populaton), get into a five pan party for smaller grouping and specific tasks, etc. It's been a blast. Also I've been grouped (obviously) for assorted dungeons (Arah story mode being the most recent). Not so much grouping during basic PvE, but then again as mentioned that's the norm in all MMOs really. However the group mechanics dynamically come into play then... it's becoming natural to see people and work with them rather than try to avoid them. Used to be a time in MMOs when other people were hinderances to your progression... kill tagging and stealing, racing to nodes, crap like that. You saw people and dreaded it or at least went a different direction because you were rewarded for levelling alone. Now in GW2 it's more rewarding to go where the people are to see what's happening and join them. IMO, this is a good thing.

    Oderint, dum metuant.
    image

  • jondifooljondifool cphPosts: 1,114Member
    Originally posted by Rhianni32
    Originally posted by Dibdabs
    Originally posted by jondifool

    Just because you can group up as you want- doesn't change the fact that ArenaNet have made the game so accesible that some of the normal social parts of MMO simply have a lot less reason to exsist.  

    Ok, I'll bite... what "normal social parts of MMO" do you refer to?  I'm genuinely interested.

    Yeah I am curious too.

    Are lots of players missing out on the chuck norris jokes?

    normal parts like "making friends" because you actual ended up in a remote and dangerous area together and either worked together and teamed up or stole kills from each others. And without teleport travel you where actual stucked to be together for a while, making it shared experience. The ease ArenaNet have given us to travel with does mean that there simply is less need to talk.And shared experience is with strangers that zone out before the next thing happend!

     

    read how to create a succesfull mmo before posting about GW2. And read tao of ArenaNet before talking about innovation in GW2

  • cdesteycdestey Bethlehem, GAPosts: 70Member
    Originally posted by jondifool
    Originally posted by Rhianni32
    Originally posted by Dibdabs
    Originally posted by jondifool

    Just because you can group up as you want- doesn't change the fact that ArenaNet have made the game so accesible that some of the normal social parts of MMO simply have a lot less reason to exsist.  

    Ok, I'll bite... what "normal social parts of MMO" do you refer to?  I'm genuinely interested.

    Yeah I am curious too.

    Are lots of players missing out on the chuck norris jokes?

    normal parts like "making friends" because you actual ended up in a remote and dangerous area together and either worked together and teamed up or stole kills from each others. And without teleport travel you where actual stucked to be together for a while, making it shared experience. The ease ArenaNet have given us to travel with does mean that there simply is less need to talk.And shared experience is with strangers that zone out before the next thing happend!

     

    You mean like every other themepark?

    The experiences you seem to be describing I remember fondly from SWG and sometimes EvE, but I'm not sure themeparks are that conducive to this type of socializing. At least not that I personally know of.

  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,964Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by delete5230

    Well made mmo.  Possibly best ever, Graphics, coding, lots of tough put in, and done right !

    HOWEVER......As well made as GW2 is, the mind set of development is for auto grouping, and no community.  This is ANet's formula, they did not screw up, they made it that way on purpose......It's just made too Auto-Dynamic for my liking !

    Would I ever buy an expansion ?......Probabbly not, because it will be the same formula.

    It's not that I hate the game, it's ok . In fact I play it now and then, an hour here or an hour there.  Got my necro to level 50. Like I say it's well made.

    I'm going out of town for almost a month.  When I come back I'm already brain storming:

    - Should I play GW2 and make an Engineer, that way I could transfer my cloth to my necro and my leather to my Engeneer so I can up my crafting ? 

    - Should I try a WoW private server and see if I could bring back some old times with Vanella ?

    - Should I Give EVE a real shot this time ?

    - Should I try TSW ?

     

    BUT the bottom line is that GW2 is not the Great thing I was hoping for. Its nice but its already one of several !....ANets formula is not really my formula.....I really think that the formula they are using will not keep players playing for years.  Most will play every class they like and off to the next.

  • observerobserver Houston, TXPosts: 3,013Member Uncommon

    Person A walks into a bar.  Person A sits next to Person B.  Both start talking to each other, then exchange numbers (add to friends list).  Everyone else is sharing environment in bar.

    Person A goes to a stadium.  Person A sits with friends.  Everyone else is sharing the experience.

    Real life is also Auto-Dynamic.

  • KuppaKuppa Boulder, COPosts: 3,292Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by observer

    Person A walks into a bar.  Person A sits next to Person B.  Both start talking to each other, then exchange numbers (add to friends list).  Everyone else is sharing environment in bar.

    Person A goes to a stadium.  Person A sits with friends.  Everyone else is sharing the experience.

    Real life is also Auto-Dynamic.

    I wonder if they should add to the daily achivements to talk to a stranger or something, maybe then folks will be happy to be forced to socialize....which in all reality isn't socializing.

    image


    image

  • delete5230delete5230 Posts: 2,964Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by observer

    Person A walks into a bar.  Person A sits next to Person B.  Both start talking to each other, then exchange numbers (add to friends list).  Everyone else is sharing environment in bar.

    Person A goes to a stadium.  Person A sits with friends.  Everyone else is sharing the experience.

    Real life is also Auto-Dynamic.

    You can also look at it like this :

    You go to the mall, tons of people around, You buy something and the girl at the counter tells you thanks, and you go home !

     

    So were you really out with people ?......This is Auto-Dynamic....Would you like to live your life like this.

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by delete5230
    Originally posted by observer

    Person A walks into a bar.  Person A sits next to Person B.  Both start talking to each other, then exchange numbers (add to friends list).  Everyone else is sharing environment in bar.

    Person A goes to a stadium.  Person A sits with friends.  Everyone else is sharing the experience.

    Real life is also Auto-Dynamic.

    You can also look at it like this :

    You go to the mall, tons of people around, You buy something and the girl at the counter tells you thanks, and you go home !

     So were you really out with people ?......This is Auto-Dynamic....Would you like to live your life like this.

    So, in the situation you just described YOU don't talk to anyone, but it's all Society's fault.  You still seem to have this thing in your head where you expect people in MMOs to flock to you and make your day for you.  Sorry, but "community" does not spring into existence fully-formed and functioning, especially not if you sit passively waiting for it to all happen.  Start the ball rolling and stop blaming everybody but you.

  • nate1980nate1980 Evans, GAPosts: 1,829Member
    Originally posted by delete5230
    Originally posted by observer

    Person A walks into a bar.  Person A sits next to Person B.  Both start talking to each other, then exchange numbers (add to friends list).  Everyone else is sharing environment in bar.

    Person A goes to a stadium.  Person A sits with friends.  Everyone else is sharing the experience.

    Real life is also Auto-Dynamic.

    You can also look at it like this :

    You go to the mall, tons of people around, You buy something and the girl at the counter tells you thanks, and you go home !

     

    So were you really out with people ?......This is Auto-Dynamic....Would you like to live your life like this.

    or...with my experience in GW2 on the Jade Quarry server.

    A person has no friends, because he's in a new environment, but would like to have friends. So he goes to a public place, says some "hellos', asks some questions, but every time he is ignored and met with silence. Not even a glance from other people. That's my experience with GW2.

  • DibdabsDibdabs FelvershamPosts: 2,604Member Uncommon
    Originally posted by jondifool
    Originally posted by Rhianni32
    Originally posted by Dibdabs
    Originally posted by jondifool

    Just because you can group up as you want- doesn't change the fact that ArenaNet have made the game so accesible that some of the normal social parts of MMO simply have a lot less reason to exsist.  

    Ok, I'll bite... what "normal social parts of MMO" do you refer to?  I'm genuinely interested.

    Yeah I am curious too.

    Are lots of players missing out on the chuck norris jokes?

    normal parts like "making friends" because you actual ended up in a remote and dangerous area together and either worked together and teamed up or stole kills from each others. And without teleport travel you where actual stucked to be together for a while, making it shared experience. The ease ArenaNet have given us to travel with does mean that there simply is less need to talk.And shared experience is with strangers that zone out before the next thing happend!

    There's nothing to stop people doing just as you describe, other than the lack of the desire to do so in modern-day MMO players.  You could hang out anywhere you like in a zone and shoot the breeze... but the vast majority of players just don't seem to want to do that these days in ANY MMO you care to name. It's laughable that you think GW2 is any different to any other MMO out there in this regard.  Voice chat has a lot to do with that, I think, but just because people don't socialize in the Chat Box with YOU doesn't mean they aren't socializing with RL friends and family on Teamspeak, Skype, Mumble or whatever.

    Out of interest, do YOU actually attempt to start chats at all?  So many people grumble about "lack of community" yet they never try to create a sense of community themselves, instead preferring to wait until "community" comes to them.

  • DeivosDeivos Mountain View, CAPosts: 1,812Member Uncommon

    Yeah, gotta say this feels like it's a complaint of personal inaction and something GW2 can't solve itself.

     

    My advice? If you want a community that regularly converses with one another and interacts as a natural part of their gameplay, play on an RP server.

     

    In GW2 Tarnished Coast is the unoffficial US server, Piken Square for EU.

     

    People's interest in socilalizing or not goes back well before GW2 and I honestly see no difference in the basic level of player interaction and behavior as I did in even the early days of WoW (save for less bad jokes and insults in chat, people seem to disappear when they make those in GW2). I know, I just referenced WoW. But face it, it's the easiest thing to take out and use as a yardstick at this point, regardless of it's perception of quality, because it's just so openly known. :p

     

    Point being though. If you don't talk, you aren't going to get any responses. If others don't talk, that's also their perogative/problem. Not Arenanet's.

     

    You need to play with the right kind of people to find an interactive community, and that means a guild or a social group that's actually interested in such things. I have no statistics, but from my experience the average MMO player at present is not a social gamer.

    Sure they might value multiplayer, but even in FPS games where you can only play with other people you still very often have non-social players. People who simply won't talk throughout a match or interact with another player beyond what 'teamwork' entails.

     

    That's how I perceive most online players to be. They value the online play for some reason, but it's not because they have any interest in interacting with other people directly online.

     

    If you want that, you need people who are online with that as part of their agenda. Hence my referral to playing on an RP server. You don't have to RP a character, just play the game. The major difference is the people on an RP server are there because they want to interact with other players.

    "The knowledge of the theory of logic has no tendency whatever to make men good reasoners."
    - Thomas B. Macaulay

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